EPTWait & see, letting mapmakers working around the current balance is also a key about success, they were the true masters of BW.
Situation Report: HoTS Balance - Page 28
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nojok
France15845 Posts
Wait & see, letting mapmakers working around the current balance is also a key about success, they were the true masters of BW. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On March 19 2013 00:29 Luolis wrote: I wonder why people havent whined about oracle so much. That unit is the definition of op. Guaranteed damage and op allins. Because it just forces you to play more defensively. If you loose to it, in general you were cutting corner somewhere. Still think the unit can be improved so it is better after the opponent has defended against it at the cost of the insane worker kill speed. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On March 18 2013 23:35 Plansix wrote: Once the terran gets to four medivacs, the protoss currently loses map control due to the fact that the terran can doom drop their base. In a base race, the terran always has the advantage due to the fact that they can fly their buildings. Because of the fear of the doom drop, the protoss is force to stay home and defend while the terran can expand to a third. This is the current metagame, which can change if the protoss figures out how to delay that third without risking a full base race. It may be through harassment of some sort, but the terran currently has control of the map in the mid game with the speed of the medivac. Terrans can only doom drop the Protoss base because Protoss are stupid and DO NOT BUILD CANNONS to prevent Medivacs from even getting in. That is the only real option to defend against something like this, because it requires no actions on the defenders side AND it costs zero supply! Just make sure to completely ignore the Day[9] mantra of "thats a [INSERT STATIC DEFENSE] he didnt want to build" and build a large enough number of static defenses to deter even a doom drop. You dont have to start with that number because drops start with a single Medivac, but you need to add to the number of cannons defending the outer rim of your main base and the natural. There is usually only one spot where those shuttles come in for each of these two bases AND the cannons are nice in the early game against Reapers as well (depending on the map though). On March 19 2013 00:52 nojok wrote: First big tourney result : zerg, terran x2, protoss. Life, Flash & MC are recognised as true masters of starcraft, innovation a bit less. Not much to say about balance right now & the games have been really entertaining during the tourney. Good job blizzard, I thought I would not buy hots but I now give it a try as it seems more fun than the stagnating meta of wol. Wait & see, letting mapmakers working around the current balance is also a key about success, they were the true masters of BW. Mapmakers are limited by Blizzards unit design, because there is no cliff overlooking bases anymore and gold minerals? Nah ... They cant fix those screw-ups of the dev team, they can only lessen the impact of stupid design. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On March 19 2013 00:29 Luolis wrote: I wonder why people havent whined about oracle so much. That unit is the definition of op. Guaranteed damage and op allins. ok then to shock you, blizzard say they wanna buff it but cant do it because its the master vs bronce problem oracle may be super strong bronce-diamond but after master its a shituseless unit (jaeh i know mc did well with it mlg but enemys ignored you must go gas first as terran) so blizzard think about buffing them without hurting lower levels to much guaranteed is there nothing if you play a terran who go 1gas opening it can be your oracles do nothing and then you nearly lost the game | ||
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ThirdDegree
United States329 Posts
On March 18 2013 23:55 aksfjh wrote: Whoops, I can't do math this morning. 5-7 shots don't kill medivacs, but still take out most of their health. 4-5 stalkers will kill a medivac before it can go over the stalkers boosted. Considering 1 drop is worth at least 500 minerals and 100 gas in investment and army size, I would expect something roughly as costly to nullify them. This is in contrast to WoL, where 3 stalkers would dissuade a double drop... My original point was not a balance issue. I personally think the speedivacs work fine now, I just like the added risk during drops from a spectator standpoint. It makes it a lot more tense to watch. When I see the medivacs speed towards a base, and then just turn around at the last minute, I get it's a strategic move that the dropper doesn't want to risk it, but as a spectator I like that little bit of tension of "is he going to go for it?" No balance whine intended. | ||
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Taefox
1533 Posts
Mapmakers are limited by Blizzards unit design, because there is no cliff overlooking bases anymore and gold minerals? Nah ... They cant fix those screw-ups of the dev team, they can only lessen the impact of stupid design. Why so much hate ? stupid desgin and we spend $$$ to play ? Are we stupid ? | ||
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
On March 19 2013 00:29 Luolis wrote: I wonder why people havent whined about oracle so much. That unit is the definition of op. Guaranteed damage and op allins. Guaranteed damage? What do you mean? I could also send my first 6 workers to the opponents base, they are also guaranteed to do damage. Doesn't mean that it's an OP strategy. I like Oracles a lot. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 19 2013 00:57 Rabiator wrote: Terrans can only doom drop the Protoss base because Protoss are stupid and DO NOT BUILD CANNONS to prevent Medivacs from even getting in. That is the only real option to defend against something like this, because it requires no actions on the defenders side AND it costs zero supply! Just make sure to completely ignore the Day[9] mantra of "thats a [INSERT STATIC DEFENSE] he didnt want to build" and build a large enough number of static defenses to deter even a doom drop. You dont have to start with that number because drops start with a single Medivac, but you need to add to the number of cannons defending the outer rim of your main base and the natural. There is usually only one spot where those shuttles come in for each of these two bases AND the cannons are nice in the early game against Reapers as well (depending on the map though). Mapmakers are limited by Blizzards unit design, because there is no cliff overlooking bases anymore and gold minerals? Nah ... They cant fix those screw-ups of the dev team, they can only lessen the impact of stupid design. Says the man who stated that he wouldn't buy hots and didn't play SC2. Boosted medivacs have a sight range of 10, a speed that is faster than any unit in the game when boosted and turn on a dime. They are just going to fly around the cannons that cannot move to chase them. There are no amount of photon cannons you can build that is going to stop a doom drop, since they can just fly around them. And not on two bases. The protoss army is not leaving while there are 2-4 medivacs on the field until their own 3rd base is secure. No amount of cannons is going to let them leave. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On March 19 2013 00:57 Rabiator wrote: Terrans can only doom drop the Protoss base because Protoss are stupid and DO NOT BUILD CANNONS to prevent Medivacs from even getting in. That is the only real option to defend against something like this, because it requires no actions on the defenders side AND it costs zero supply! Just make sure to completely ignore the Day[9] mantra of "thats a [INSERT STATIC DEFENSE] he didnt want to build" and build a large enough number of static defenses to deter even a doom drop. You dont have to start with that number because drops start with a single Medivac, but you need to add to the number of cannons defending the outer rim of your main base and the natural. There is usually only one spot where those shuttles come in for each of these two bases AND the cannons are nice in the early game against Reapers as well (depending on the map though). Mapmakers are limited by Blizzards unit design, because there is no cliff overlooking bases anymore and gold minerals? Nah ... They cant fix those screw-ups of the dev team, they can only lessen the impact of stupid design. Right, let's just ring the main base with 30 cannons to have 3-4 cannons in range of every possible drop location to stop a doom drop, because anything less and he'll just scan, find the open spot, and boost right in or over the cannons. And we'll do that at the 10-12 minute mark when he's got 4 medivacs and more coming and have no units at all, so we lose when he stims in the front door. Oh, and forget about taking a third base with all that money invested into cannons. Let's not forget that if he can unload in the corner of your base and then stim into your cannon wall, the cannons will be worthless, because they suck at dealing damage to MMM. You can't cannon up enough to stop a doom drop against speed medivacs before you're maxed out on 3-4 bases or until you've got storm and a bunch of high templar to buy time. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16097 Posts
David Kim: HoTS Thoughts 3/18/2013 Just wanted to let you know that our design team is watching every major match carefully and will continue doing so. Some things we're noticing are: - The super aggressive play is turning out to be really fun to watch. - Nobody is close to figuring the game out yet. - A few players are really changing up their play and having completely different results than what's expected by the majority. - Some of the initial balance concerns do seem to be continuing in games whereas the more creative players aren't struggling as much against them. Some things we're thinking of going forward: - We'll try our best to not be too quick to make judgments on things that are allowing players to play a much more aggressive game. For example, yes Medivacs look strong but it's forcing even the opponents to play aggressive and the constant action throughout the game is looking to be really fun to watch. - We'll continue watching all the pro and community concerns, but keep in mind we'd really like the game to settle before we step in and make a move. | ||
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eXdeath
France66 Posts
On March 19 2013 00:12 LSN wrote: --- make corruptor light instead of armored (then ghosts gonna be a problem tho) This would make the Phoenixes crush both Mutalisks and Corruptors, bad idea. I think they should rather modify the Void Ray ability. They could test things so that, for example, when the Prismatic Alignment is active, the Void Rays become much much slower and wouldn't be able to escape or chase units. Well, it should be risky for the Protoss to activate this ability in some situations. I think it's true for all units, the game is entertaining when a strat is both powerful and risky, depending on situations. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:19 Vindicare605 wrote: Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8197652564 David Kim: HoTS Thoughts 3/18/2013 Fair enough, good post by D.Kim  | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:19 Vindicare605 wrote: Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8197652564 David Kim: HoTS Thoughts 3/18/2013 Awesome, I love DK for this. I hope they consider boosting the other races agressive abilities if it is necessary, rather than nerfing medivacs. More scouting, more agression and less turtling. Give protoss cheaper warp prisim speed out of the cyber core and zerg cheaper drops. Make the best defense a good offense. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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( bush
321 Posts
Im actually surprised seeing (average) 10 terrans, 10 toss, 10 zergs. | ||
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Dekoth
United States527 Posts
That all said, I am personally excited to see up and coming competitions and watch the metagame develop. I expect there will be sweeping changes over the next few months and hope blizzard refrains from any changes until things are better understood. Those were just Fantastic matches to watch. | ||
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Anachromy
United States194 Posts
So, the idea I wanted to bring into question, is if during the afterburner activation, and even perhaps during it's cooldown, should the medivac be able to continue it's healing capabilities? I feel that allowing the medivac to move fast, but not heal, would really improve the risk/reward aspect to this ability. and create some interesting situations and decisions for both players. Forgive me if this concept has been brought up before. | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:52 nojok wrote: I just had a random idea, maybe it's totally wrong, but why not make the boost forcing the medivacs to go in a straight line & can't drop/pick units? They will still be very powerful but more risky if you do it blindly and it would require more skill to be able to drop exactly where you want. Interesting idea. | ||
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Ercster
United States603 Posts
On March 18 2013 21:30 Infinite Loop wrote: What credentials do you have to suggest these changes to this game? How many games of HOTS have you seen professionally played to determine these changes, do you think that's enough? What kind of stupid fucking logic is that? Why do I need to have "credentials" in order to give my opinion? That's right, I don't. | ||
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