It's simple really. GSL players are not used to Bisu's presence, and are thus too distracted to play as well as they can. Why do you think Bisu has been sitting on the bench? Because he's not as good in sc2? Wrong. Being a pretty distraction yo.

Goldfish

2230 Posts

January 16 2013 21:38 GMT

#102

On January 16 2013 22:39 Scarecrow wrote:
The game's volatile and it takes a while for there to be large changes in the makeup of code S. Huk and Nestea are in it atm and do/would get rocked in proleague.

Yeah + I like to mention that in the OSL, it was basically split in half.

Click

In each group, one eSF and one KeSPA player were knocked out, with one from each advancing.

This doesn't really say much besides KeSPA and eSF are fairly on equal footing.

In terms of the GSL, it's always been hard to get into Code S from Code B/Code A.

Both Flash and Jaedong really narrowingly lost.

In the first part of up and down, they both lost via 3-2 scores.

Flash defeat Yoda (which defeated everyone else) but lost to Jaedong (who lost to MC) and MC.

Jaedong defeated Flash but lost to MC and Yoda.

MC defeated Flash, Jaedong but lost to Vampire (who flash defeated) and lost to Yoda (who Flash also defeated).

It was 3-2 everyone but since MC won via head to head vs Flash and Jaedong, he advanced.

(I know head to head is used in a lot of formats but it doesn't mean <x> player is better than <y> player. I mean, if you see the above, Flash defeated two players who defeated MC but lost MC and Jaedong.)

(Also, I didn't mention YongHwa because everyone defeated him. Yep, Artosis curse real and alive.)

In wild card, Jaedong yet again lost because of tieing 2-2 score with two others.

Emzeeshady

Canada4203 Posts

January 16 2013 21:39 GMT

#103

--- Nuked ---

StarStruck

25339 Posts

January 16 2013 21:49 GMT

#104

On January 17 2013 06:27 bankobauss wrote:
in order for true proleague skill to be determined, I believe

1) you must remove mirror match losses from the stastistics

2) you must remove games on arkanoid from the stastistics

i know many will disagree with me on the mirror match point, but my argument is that I truly feel mirror matches are highly different from non-mirror matches

stephano has incredible skill in non-mirror matches. but his zvz is pretty abysmal

Now, if a player can be like flash with great non-mirror matches and a awesome TvT, then that is amazing and incredible

however IMO I feel if you follow my 2 rules, many of the code S players will show to have very good skill showings in proleague

i guess my argument is, that mirror matchups are a completely different animal compared to non-mirrors

If you have a crappy match-up you have a crappy match-up. Everything counts.

On January 17 2013 06:39 Emzeeshady wrote:

Show nested quote +

Code S > Major foeriegn tournaments > Proleague > GSTL

Fixed

That's all opinion. Ultimately you would have to ask each player because I assure you they would give you different answers as to what's important to them.

Seeker

Where dat snitch at?37095 Posts

January 16 2013 21:52 GMT

#105

Code S players are sucking in Proleague.
Proleague players can't get into Code S.

The cycle of life is at work here, what more is there to know?

kiy0

Portugal593 Posts

January 16 2013 21:56 GMT

#106

For the love of god, please fix the title.

Sample size is still minimal. We need for time before we can draw meaningful conclusions.

vinsang1000

Belgium365 Posts

January 16 2013 21:59 GMT

#107

this topic is wayyyyyyy early. Most of the players just played 10 games max

Sorkoas

549 Posts

January 16 2013 22:02 GMT

#108

That's called RNG. Never use statistics to back up an argument if you don't have a proper sample.

.Wraath

United States262 Posts

January 16 2013 22:05 GMT

#109

Because they have so much footage/replays of them playing, while many of the Kespa guys do not.

Also pointless to include HuK/Stephano in this...

NoGasfOu

United States1117 Posts

January 16 2013 22:33 GMT

#110

Proleague players are just better than Code S.

Godwrath

Spain10145 Posts

January 16 2013 22:43 GMT

#111

On January 17 2013 07:33 NoGasfOu wrote:
Proleague players are just better than Code S.

Show me all the evidence you have to back up this.

Oh. wait, it doesn't exist.

starfinder

Japan167 Posts

January 17 2013 00:50 GMT

#112

On January 17 2013 06:52 Seeker wrote:
Code S players are sucking in Proleague.
Proleague players can't get into Code S.

The cycle of life is at work here, what more is there to know?

why they can't? this 7 players all in code S current.

it's not a thread about any ESF players.it's PL players vs. PLplayers(with code s badge )

Uncultured

United States1340 Posts

January 17 2013 01:13 GMT

#113

....... There's a fuckload less code S players than non code-s player. Just a matter of numbers that they aren't in top 10 yet.

forsooth

United States3648 Posts

January 17 2013 01:19 GMT

#114

Those records don't indicate that they're doing poorly at all. SPL is a totally different environment, where a player with more overall skill can be sniped by a particularly well-prepared build from a lesser player any night of the week. Players with exceptionally high win rates will always be exceedingly rare.

rauk

United States2228 Posts

January 17 2013 01:23 GMT

#115

proleague success and individual league success aren't always correlated anyways

look at PL beasts like leta, sea, snow, horang, light, soulkey, bisu, stats, violet, shuttle, bogus

these guys all had really strong 2010-2012 proleague performances but never made it past like ro16 of OSL/MSL, or if they're bisu, can't even make it out of prelims

sitromit

7051 Posts

January 17 2013 01:25 GMT

#116

This is a silly thread. Code S is not an absolute. When people use words like "Code S level play" etc, they don't necessarily mean anyone who ever made it into Code S, but rather the high level of play we see from players who stay there consistently.

Let's look at the 7 players, and analyze how they got to Code S, and what their current status is:

Taeja: The best of the bunch, has been in Code S the longest of all of them, despite dealing with some wrist issues recently, not surprisingly, he has the best record of all

Soulkey: Got seeded into Code S, managed to come out of the loser's match in both ro32 and ro16, got past ro16 on the strength of his ZvZ alone, otherwise probably wouldn't have, promptly got eliminated at ro8 when he had to ZvT. I predict he will fall down to Code A this season.

Stephano: Got seeded, has yet to show that he belongs there.

Bogus: Another player who's very new to Code S. Had a good streak last season after getting man-handled by Leenock, a Code S veteran, but lost 3-1 in the semis to Hyun, and has been losing a lot of games ever since. Interestingly, he got past ro8 by beating Soulkey, whose Code S worthiness itself is in question.

Baby: Got seeded into Code S, finished last in his group, dropped to Code A. In Code A, beat a newcomer playing his first televised match in Code A, then beat Flash, another KesPA player, then played Symbol, who was having such a bad day that he even forgot to build his spawning pool in one of their games. That's how he got back into Code S.

Roro: Another new player in Code S, got knocked out in the first round last season. Requalified by beating Fantasy, another KeSPA player. He seems very inconsistent, I don't expect him to make it far this season either.

Huk: Got seeded into the up and downs into what everyone called the easiest group, with 2 KesPA players one of which was on a losing streak. He qualified by beating the 2 KeSPA players, and a Code A rookie. Everyone expects him to make an early exit from Code S.

So, as you see, context is everything.

Winterfell

United States170 Posts

January 17 2013 01:29 GMT

#117

I think here people are missing an important point; Code S players have more to worry about than Proleague. How well is taija going to prepare for Arkanoid? Not well; He has to prepare for his Code S matches. Those that aren't in anything but Proleague can prepare the matches and matchups they are going to see that week, with their whole energy. Serious players from other leagues are torn in many many directions.

I think it's also important to note that there just isn't that much Proleague data yet - it's not been long enough yet. Those strong players not currently in code S will probably make it there, and code S players will find their feet in Proleague in the long run.

NKexquisite

United States911 Posts

January 17 2013 01:41 GMT

#118

B/c Proleague has Best of 1 (lulz) format

winthrop

Hong Kong956 Posts

January 17 2013 02:00 GMT

#119

the stats has a longer history, most of games are played while they are not code S yet.
For ty, roro and HuK.

Sub40APM

6336 Posts

January 17 2013 02:02 GMT

#120

best of 1 + new map pool + small number of Code S players who play in pro league.
Code S, with its longer game format and established maps gives you a better gauge of skill for now.