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Did not see a thread, yet.
http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=229420&cid=0&kind=8
*New Maps:
GSL Akilon Flats
GSL Icarus
KeSPA Neo Planet S
Revised Maps:
GSL Whirlwind SE
GSL Bel’Shir Vestige SE
Unchanged Maps:
GSL Daybreak
GSL Cloud Kingdom
Removed from the Map Pool:
GSL Entombed Valley
GSL Abyssal City
GSL Antiga Shipyard
"Destructible rocks have had their health lowered to 1000 (Take that, Dustin Browder)." 
Thanks to Pandemona for this overview:
Map Pool![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tOjyo.png) Revised MapsGSL Bel’Shir Vestige SE- The tower at the fast expansion where overlords can hide has been removed.
- Destructible rocks have been added to second expansions
- The route from the second expansions to the center area is now a slope.
GSL Whirlwind SE- Destructible rocks have been added to both second expansions
- Since destructible rocks have been added, it is expected that players will take a quick 2nd expansions followed by aggressive play.
New Maps!KeSPA Neo Planet S+ Show Spoiler [Neo Planet S] +Akilon Flats+ Show Spoiler [Arkilon Flats] +GSL Icarus+ Show Spoiler [GSL Icarus] +
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The DB line is most bodacious. Can't wait until the final season!
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so no 3rd base for zerg on whirlwind and belshir, time travel indeed
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i don't know about icarius but the other ones looks really cool!
Maybe add pictures in the op?
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The DB rocks comment is gold. I like the change they made to Akilon Flats too.
"The Xel’Naga watchtowers in the center area will lose power for the rest of the game after 7 minutes."
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Interesting changes, at least the gameplay will shift towards a zerg agressive playstyle
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Interesting changes, will be cool how they play out. I also like how the Xelnaga tower will lose power, makes map presence more useful, can't wait to see what sort of play that brings out of people
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"3. The Xel’Naga watchtowers in the center area will lose power for the rest of the game after 7 minutes. "
Thats for Akilon Flats: very interesting
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Looking forward to Planet S and Icarus.
Very interesting 
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so whirlwind is still a thing. That's disappointing. I guess with all of the new and updated maps it should make for an interesting season.
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About time new maps came into the map pool. Antiga feels super, super stale and old and I never particularly liked abyssal city.
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On January 16 2013 18:27 HotShizz wrote:
so whirlwind is still a thing. That's disappointing. I guess with all of the new and updated maps it should make for an interesting season.
whirlwinds a great map and has shown some really really good games. My favorite personally even though everytime I watch that map the zergs seem to lose >>.
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I really like the changes GSL have done to the map pool especially those to Alkion, having those center watchtowers time out is a great idea! I wish Blizzard would think out the box like that when it comes to map design... Oh but wait then people who haven't played on it at least once will not understand how it works >_<
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The temporary towers in Akilon Flats is pretty interesting. Are there any other tourney maps which do it?
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Wow Icarus ! I can't foresee long macro games on this map
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did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this
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Any map pool without Arkanoid is a good map pool in my book.
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Wow these are some amazing changes. O-o
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
On January 16 2013 18:32 Tsubbi wrote:
did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this
Gomtv doing their own balance tweaking
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On January 16 2013 18:32 Tsubbi wrote:
did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this
Because Blizzard won't balance the zerg race, torunaments have to put something to hold the ZvZfest.
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On January 16 2013 18:32 Tsubbi wrote:
did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this
If you can't balance the game, balance the maps !
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Russian Federation325 Posts
Naturals on Icarus have only 6 mineral patches, 2 of them gold. It encourages taking 2nd and 3rd bases earlier.
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On January 16 2013 18:32 Tsubbi wrote:
did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this
as far i knpw these rock doesnt block expansion ͵ they just make the path to the e p more narrow
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Australia2 Posts
does iccarus have a hidden natural with 1 gas and 2 gold minerals with the rest normal minerals???
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It seems like (except for akilon flats), every change has made taking a 3rd more difficult. Can't say I agree with those changes.
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Should be fun to watch. The game has kind of stagnated into fast 3rd builds, and this could bring in some exciting old-school 2 base play.
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I really like the good faith gesture from GOM to include a KeSPA map in their pool. That's awesome imo.
On January 16 2013 18:32 Tsubbi wrote:
did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this
SC2 is imbalanced in favour of Zerg since May 2012, it's an attempt to try and stop them taking an early third into collecting all the prize money. It won't work, but at least it's something.
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On January 16 2013 18:31 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 18:27 HotShizz wrote:
so whirlwind is still a thing. That's disappointing. I guess with all of the new and updated maps it should make for an interesting season. whirlwinds a great map and has shown some really really good games. My favorite personally even though everytime I watch that map the zergs seem to lose >>.
Heh, you must be jinxing the zergs when you watch. Because it is generally a very good zerg map.
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On January 16 2013 18:27 HotShizz wrote:
so whirlwind is still a thing. That's disappointing. I guess with all of the new and updated maps it should make for an interesting season.
whirlwind is the best map atm rofl...
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Whirlwind sort of a neo taldarim now?
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were most likely gonna see a massive drop in winrates for zerg this season followed by eventual balancing out, then HoTS comes out and everything gets fucked
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The Xel’Naga watchtowers in the center area will lose power for the rest of the game after 7 minutes.
plz take this too
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Akilon Flats
"The Xel’Naga watchtowers in the center area will lose power for the rest of the game after 7 minutes."
That is a really neat feature. I'm really pumped for the last WoL Season.
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Nice to see new maps but rocks at the thirds has never really worked, will be interesting to see how zergs do this season.
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On January 16 2013 18:37 AngryPenguin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 18:32 Tsubbi wrote:
did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this Because Blizzard won't balance the zerg race, torunaments have to put something to hold the ZvZfest.
And the right way. The problem arose when the map pool switched towards easily defendable 3rds. About time they fix that.
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wow, that's... interesting.
On the one side, I really like the fact that the maps now require very different play styles and approaches.
On the other side, isn't PvZ with rocks on third kind of broken?
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On January 16 2013 18:27 HotShizz wrote:
so whirlwind is still a thing. That's disappointing. I guess with all of the new and updated maps it should make for an interesting season.
Whirlwind brought us the two best T v T's of 2012
MMA vs MVP and Ryung vs Flash.
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51409 Posts
Daybreak and Cloud Kingdom are becoming the modern day Python and Luna of SC2 =/
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Jesus take out daybreak already that produces some of the worst games in the entire tournament
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On January 16 2013 18:49 liberate71 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 18:27 HotShizz wrote:
so whirlwind is still a thing. That's disappointing. I guess with all of the new and updated maps it should make for an interesting season. Whirlwind brought us the two best T v T's of 2012 MMA vs MVP and Ryung vs Flash.
It also brought a slew of fantastic tvt's, such as DRG vs Ryung.
On January 16 2013 18:53 GTR wrote:
Daybreak and Cloud Kingdom are becoming the modern day Python and Luna of SC2 =/
Your name looked so much cooler in red 
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Italy12246 Posts
Icarus will either be the best or worst thing to ever happen in sc2.
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On January 16 2013 18:58 Teoita wrote:
Icarus will either be the best or worst thing to ever happen in sc2.
Sounds like Arkanoid 
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On January 16 2013 18:32 MCXD wrote:
The temporary towers in Akilon Flats is pretty interesting. Are there any other tourney maps which do it?
Xel'Naga Fortress did back in mid 2011
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Where do they get this stuff.
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Planet S is my favorite of the new Kespa maps, glad to get the opportunity to see more of it. (Although I never did figure out the reasoning for the up/down bumps compared to just using LOS blockers). I'm really looking to see how the Xel'Naga change in Akilon Flats works out, and if we see something similar in future maps. Icarus looks cool; I like that color scheme, but there is so much going on from the overhead view I can hardly follow what the paths look like. Tyring to use the rich minerals in the natural to promote aggression is a neat idea. I'm sure people like being able to watch the players interact with each other, if they can promote more interactions without disturbing balance at large, they're sure to get more folks watching.
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Will someone with a KR account please send me a replay played on the new maps so I can publish the maps to NA.
Upload to http://www.drop.sc
Need:
GSL Akilon Flats
GSL Icarus
GSL Whirlwind SE
GSL Bel'Shir Vestige SE
I already published KeSPA maps so I don't need a Neo Planet S replay.
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I just realised on Ikarion : the neutral supply depot is at the top of the ramp, how is a terran and protoss supposed to wall ?
It also seem that it's easier for the attacker than the defender to switch between the main ramp and the 2nd
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GSL Icarus looks super awful imo, guess we will have to see next week.
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So GomTV is going to use KeSPA maps...interesting
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Dustin Browder probably won't notice, seeing that his face is probably glued to proleague now, with Arkanoid. Anyways, Icarus is a weird map. 2 patches gold, backdoor expo, etc. It's either going to turn out brilliant or horrible.
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Oooo, GSL Icarus looks funky!
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Icarus... where's the third supposed to go?!
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On January 16 2013 18:49 liberate71 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 18:27 HotShizz wrote:
so whirlwind is still a thing. That's disappointing. I guess with all of the new and updated maps it should make for an interesting season. Whirlwind brought us the two best T v T's of 2012 MMA vs MVP and Ryung vs Flash.
How could you forget GuMiho vs. MMA as the best TvT of 2012?
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On January 16 2013 18:47 Nyvis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 18:37 AngryPenguin wrote:On January 16 2013 18:32 Tsubbi wrote:
did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this Because Blizzard won't balance the zerg race, torunaments have to put something to hold the ZvZfest. And the right way. The problem arose when the map pool switched towards easily defendable 3rds. About time they fix that.
Problem with zerg isn't easily defendable 3rds (with lings, creep and queens, everything is defendable to harass), the problem is how fast they can take and saturate a third.
Easily defendable 3rds is something that affects protoss way more.
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Nice to see GSL bringing in one of the KesPa maps in their pool. Hopefully we will keep seeing both organisations working togeather on the map stuff, so that we don't end up with 2 completely different mappools.
Kinda sad to see Entombed and Abyssal city go - kinda liked both maps. Even though Entombed is getting old, but diden't think that Abyssal got a fair chance - but on the other hand i can't really recall many/if any good matches on the map. But i would much much rather have seen Daybreak removed from the mapool, yes i know its a good map and its quite balanced. But JESUS CHRIST its been in the map pool for sooooooooo long, and is getting super super stale :-/
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Austria24417 Posts
I didn't like Whirlwind at all because of how easily snipeable the third is. Nice to see them address this. The map has shown great TvZ and TvT games, hoping to see some cool protoss games on it now too!
Super glad to see Abyssal City go, Bel'Shir Vestige sounds way better now. Icarus is something new, we'll have to see how it works. Planet S is a fun map, seems more balanced now. Immortal all ins were pretty easy here.
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Super happy that there are rocks blocking 3rds now. So tired of seeing zergs get a fast third in 2 matchups; ZvT and ZvP just changed for the better.
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Austria24417 Posts
On January 16 2013 19:39 Lunareste wrote:
Super happy that there are rocks blocking 3rds now. So tired of seeing zergs get a fast third in 2 matchups; ZvT and ZvP just changed for the better.
They're not blocking thirds, they're blocking ramps to thirds to make it easier for protoss and terran to defend third bases. At least if I'm not totally mistaken.
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Maybe someday GOM/KESPA will actually mess with the economy of normal SC2 by changing the number of mineral patches or vespene geysers per base (i.e. FRB). That would be nice, if not downright balance the game themselves.
Glad to see that GOM/KESPA are not afraid to do things like this. A step in a better direction!
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Italy12246 Posts
On January 16 2013 19:31 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 18:47 Nyvis wrote:On January 16 2013 18:37 AngryPenguin wrote:On January 16 2013 18:32 Tsubbi wrote:
did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this Because Blizzard won't balance the zerg race, torunaments have to put something to hold the ZvZfest. And the right way. The problem arose when the map pool switched towards easily defendable 3rds. About time they fix that. Problem with zerg isn't easily defendable 3rds (with lings, creep and queens, everything is defendable to harass), the problem is how fast they can take and saturate a third. Easily defendable 3rds is something that affects protoss way more.
Exactly. I'd like to add, easy third were actually added to give Protoss a fighting chance vs zerg in macro games (as in not dieing to a million roaches while taking a third).
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I'm very excited :3 Can't wait to see what happens! Stephanooooo
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I'm really interested in Icarus. Is that two gold mineral patches in the natural backdoor expansion? That's a lot of fun. A breath of fresh air overall I think. It's going to be cool to see when more interactive stuff enters the maps instead of the rather straightforward way we see maps constructed. Good job Gom!
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Nice to see some new maps, but oh god why is Daybreak still in there.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
YESSSSS!!! New maps is awesome... :3
lol DB
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quite interesting idd. I'm curious ond Zerg match-ups
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:D:D Naow goodbye Xel Naga towers <3 Welcome truth of scouting and random building spotters
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On January 16 2013 19:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:39 Lunareste wrote:
Super happy that there are rocks blocking 3rds now. So tired of seeing zergs get a fast third in 2 matchups; ZvT and ZvP just changed for the better. They're not blocking thirds, they're blocking ramps to thirds to make it easier for protoss and terran to defend third bases. At least if I'm not totally mistaken.
Yep. According to their own words:
SE map changes:
1. Destructible rocks have been added to both second expansions.
2. Since destructible rocks have been added, it is expected that players will take a quick 2nd expansions
followed by aggressive play.
By "quick 2nd expansions," I assume that they mean quick 3rd bases, which wouldn't make sense if there were rocks directly on top of the expansions
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Big changes in the map pool, really hard to predict how it will affect the overall balance. But I agree it seems pretty clear gom were not happy with the balance in the previous map pool last season. Nice to see that Antiga and Ohana are gone. Neo Planet S has given fun games in proleague, I like that they picked it, changes to it all seem reasonable too. On the other hand, Icarus looks really really weird, I hope they had it tried sufficiently, plus they don't give any indication of how long it takes to push from one side of the map to the other. Also sad to see they did not try to come up with a new, more balanced version of abyssal city, 'twas quite a fun map overall and we have seen sooooo many games on daybreak that they could have let it go. About fixing Whirlwind, I hope they did not screw up a good map, as we have seen some sick games on that map last year
EDIT: or was ohana already gone last season? ^^
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Icarus looks HUGE. Me likey
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Wait, where is the third on Icarus?
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"The Xel’Naga watchtowers in the center area will lose power for the rest of the game after 7 minutes."
I dont like this. The experience on ladder should be the same as in tournaments, and this just took the gap to a whole new level. Introducing an odd 7 minute rule? Such an ugly way to go about it.
Perhaps just remove 2 of the 4 watchtowers? Or relocate positions of certain watchtowers? And meenwhile, let blizzard know you have a problem with watchtowers right now so they can go about making a good solution for it, 7 minute rule is just stupid.
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Is Icarus colourblind friendly?
Other then that they look decent from what I can tell out of game. Wonder if its a political decision to go for both GSL and KeSPA maps + to have more GSL maps.
Wonder if cheese or multi pronged attacks will become more popular with the lower Hps on the rocks.
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Yes to new maps! Also I hope the western tournaments take a look into the books of their Korean counterparts and stop meddling with the maps just so that they have a reason to add their tournament name in front of it, I LOOK AT YOU MLG!
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Wow, compared to what i'm used to , these are some big changes.
I really like new additions, as well as changes to old maps in general.
Way to go, gsl!
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4713 Posts
From what I'm seeing, the new trend now is to mix in some maps that promote macro play with some maps that promote aggression and also some maps that are in between.
Since they haven't changed, Daybreak and Cloud Kingdom, will remain the big macro maps, Whirlwind also promotes macro play but allows for a lot of aggression due to the size of it, Akilon Flats seems to be in the same vein after you secure your 3rd. After that, Bel'Shir Vestige, Planet S and Icarus seem to promote a lot of aggression with the 3rd either blocked or very hard to take, expect action to start from the two base stage and emphasis to be placed on trying to secure further expos.
Overall a nice change of direction, I really hated the movement into only macro games and BL/Infestor.
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United States97276 Posts
Nice to see new maps. Now I just wish they would announce who is starting on what map for the games next week.
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On January 16 2013 19:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:39 Lunareste wrote:
Super happy that there are rocks blocking 3rds now. So tired of seeing zergs get a fast third in 2 matchups; ZvT and ZvP just changed for the better. They're not blocking thirds, they're blocking ramps to thirds to make it easier for protoss and terran to defend third bases. At least if I'm not totally mistaken.
totally , many ppl think its blockin the third , no it isnt!
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1. The tower at the fast expansion where overlords can hide has been removed.
I like this change the best. I think more maps needs to do this. Or at least change the locations of the spots.
I think after the OL speed buff, one of there reasons we see much more zerg dominance is the strength of the zerg early/mid game. They can vary from extremely aggressive to extremely greedy (due to Queen's). Plus the fact that this 'safe' spots give the zerg the most intel for the least cost. So greedy play is nearly impossible to punish.
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3. The Xel’Naga watchtowers in the center area will lose power for the rest of the game after 7 minutes.
huh, interesting change
Icarus looks like it'll be really hard to hold that third/fourth
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On January 16 2013 20:37 Killmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 16 2013 19:39 Lunareste wrote:
Super happy that there are rocks blocking 3rds now. So tired of seeing zergs get a fast third in 2 matchups; ZvT and ZvP just changed for the better. They're not blocking thirds, they're blocking ramps to thirds to make it easier for protoss and terran to defend third bases. At least if I'm not totally mistaken. totally , many ppl think its blockin the third , no it isnt!
could someone with access to the korean server check the new maps please?
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On January 16 2013 20:37 Killmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 16 2013 19:39 Lunareste wrote:
Super happy that there are rocks blocking 3rds now. So tired of seeing zergs get a fast third in 2 matchups; ZvT and ZvP just changed for the better. They're not blocking thirds, they're blocking ramps to thirds to make it easier for protoss and terran to defend third bases. At least if I'm not totally mistaken. totally , many ppl think its blockin the third , no it isnt!
Destructible rocks have been added to both second expansions
Since destructible rocks have been added, it is expected that players will take a quick 2nd expansions followed by aggressive play.
yeah totally not blocking the 3rd and protecting it will encourage aggressive play.
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neo planet s = jaeh nice map
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On January 16 2013 20:38 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +
1. The tower at the fast expansion where overlords can hide has been removed.
I like this change the best. I think more maps needs to do this. Or at least change the locations of the spots. I think after the OL speed buff, one of there reasons we see much more zerg dominance is the strength of the zerg early/mid game. They can vary from extremely aggressive to extremely greedy (due to Queen's). Plus the fact that this 'safe' spots give the zerg the most intel for the least cost. So greedy play is nearly impossible to punish. i agree, certainly in combination with late-mid/ late game strength.
But back to the change, i think it's not a very bad thing that zergs need to worry more about scouting. Daybreak is another example of too easy scouting possibilities, due to 'towers' everywhere.
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I don't know if I like a map like Icarus, where you are basically forced to do a heavy 2base play. taking a third there seems nearly impossible for every race (even zerg may have a hard time!!).
Don't know, this is the first time, I don't like the new GSL maps...
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2 foreigners, the 3 original kings of their races (MVP, nestea, mc), fresh new maps, an elite 32 with barely any weak links, and a brand spanking new year... What an awesome code S we will have!
Folks, if you haven't already, go buy your Gsl tickets now!
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Just to be clear:
The rocks that have been added on Whirlwind and Belshir are not blocking the expansions for being taken (ie. from Zerg taking an early third), they are just creating a wall at the second expansions, making them slightly easier to defend.
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Akilon Flats looks a bit like one of those HOTS maps.
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Akilon seems like an okay map with the revisions to reduce power of xel'naga towers.
KeSPA Neo Planet S also looks great, except for that middle section with 2 gold bases. Kindda looks like if one player secures heavy mapcontrol, he can take those behind it and make his contain much stronger. It could also be a good thing, since camping on 2-3 bases could be punished by the opponent by just grabbing those gold bases and setting up a light contain.
Icarus I don't really know about. The map texture makes it really hard to evaluate the map from a picture alone, but it doesn't look atrocious!
overall good changes to mappool!
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On January 16 2013 20:43 TeeTS wrote:
I don't know if I like a map like Icarus, where you are basically forced to do a heavy 2base play. taking a third there seems nearly impossible for every race (even zerg may have a hard time!!).
Don't know, this is the first time, I don't like the new GSL maps...
Third looks still pretty close to main. I don't know how can anyone still like the "3 bases for free with no army backup", especially for Zerg. It doesn't mean you're forced to heavy 2 base play, just you can't mindlessly expand in the first 5 minutes. Get another base when you can defend it, that seems only fair. Get rid of the free scouting ovie spots, get rid of Xel'Naga towers. I welcome these changes which allow more reactionary and more dynamic play, you should play the opponent, not just the map.
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On January 16 2013 20:47 zBro wrote:
Akilon Flats looks a bit like one of those HOTS maps.
That's because it is...
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I'm liking the emphasis on aggression and map presence, it's a swing back to Starcraft BW and will force more advanced and malleable play styles, which I think will benefit Starcraft 2 immensely.
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On January 16 2013 21:01 Raynes wrote:
I'm liking the emphasis on aggression and map presence, it's a swing back to Starcraft BW and will force more advanced and malleable play styles, which I think will benefit Starcraft 2 immensely.
Me too. It's basically GOM coming in and saying "Fuck your metagame. It's boring. Do something other than turtle." I approve of this message.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
Finally no more Antiga and Entombed! These maps were so boring for me.
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Let's hope we are all heading towards a Watchtower-free future.
nice new maps (my first opinion, let s see how it will be after the first games), wp GOM
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I liked abyssal city. Why does it have to go ?
Does anyone now if it's imbalanced ?
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On January 16 2013 18:42 Netsky wrote:I really like the good faith gesture from GOM to include a KeSPA map in their pool. That's awesome imo. Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 18:32 Tsubbi wrote:
did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this SC2 is imbalanced in favour of Zerg since May 2012, it's an attempt to try and stop them taking an early third into collecting all the prize money. It won't work, but at least it's something.
Stop talking bullshit, after a while all agreed that queen didn't change anything to the zerg, just zerg using their infestors better and people not knowing how to counter them properly. They do it because recently the community have wished for new dynamics in map, to change how people approach these maps and keep it interesting.
It's all because people like proleague a lot these days over other tournaments because of all the new plays, new maps= more new plays, and especially if they don't have same layout as other with just slightly different size/texture
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i'm so fucking hyped for this season. even moreso after seeing this. damn.
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On January 16 2013 21:24 Cinim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 18:42 Netsky wrote:I really like the good faith gesture from GOM to include a KeSPA map in their pool. That's awesome imo. On January 16 2013 18:32 Tsubbi wrote:
did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this SC2 is imbalanced in favour of Zerg since May 2012, it's an attempt to try and stop them taking an early third into collecting all the prize money. It won't work, but at least it's something. Stop talking bullshit, after a while all agreed that queen didn't change anything to the zerg, just zerg using their infestors better and people not knowing how to counter them properly. They do it because recently the community have wished for new dynamics in map, to change how people approach these maps and keep it interesting. It's all because people like proleague a lot these days over other tournaments because of all the new plays, new maps= more new plays, and especially if they don't have same layout as other with just slightly different size/texture
heavy infestor usage was fotm before may 2012 lol, just the queen/ovi allowed the Z to take 6free gas without being punished vT.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
Ikarus looks good because the GSL map team are finally doing something new with their map design.
I cannot and do not want to believe that Daybreak and Cloud Kingdom are still in the map pool, they bring staler games than Antiga did :\/
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On January 16 2013 21:24 Cinim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 18:42 Netsky wrote:I really like the good faith gesture from GOM to include a KeSPA map in their pool. That's awesome imo. On January 16 2013 18:32 Tsubbi wrote:
did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this SC2 is imbalanced in favour of Zerg since May 2012, it's an attempt to try and stop them taking an early third into collecting all the prize money. It won't work, but at least it's something. Stop talking bullshit, after a while all agreed that queen didn't change anything to the zerg, just zerg using their infestors better and people not knowing how to counter them properly. They do it because recently the community have wished for new dynamics in map, to change how people approach these maps and keep it interesting. It's all because people like proleague a lot these days over other tournaments because of all the new plays, new maps= more new plays, and especially if they don't have same layout as other with just slightly different size/texture
haha, no. the queen buff was pretty huge in stifling terran openings.
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Looks like an amazing map pool, really looking forward to the two new GSL maps.
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to bad the city goes, i liked units floating upward. Any the xel naga change on Akilon Flats is interesting. Hope it gets picked up as it allows to place xel naga towers in really strong place to make early aggression a bit weaker, without hurting the lategame. Sounds like it would allow to make more different maps.
Oh Icarus having a far away expansion with a choke. Hope this map stays till we see those expansions taken and held by a few units.
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finally theres a new map that looks original. I just hope that they reintroduce 3-player map someday, add another 4-player map and reduce the number of 2-player ones
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I like it how GomTV eventually arrived at the same conclusion as Blizzard had when they started the game. Rocks on the third = more aggressive early game.
It's almost as if they understood how the game works...
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Can someone upload this to EU? Please!
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On January 16 2013 22:10 Evangelist wrote:
I like it how GomTV eventually arrived at the same conclusion as Blizzard had when they started the game. Rocks on the third = more aggressive early game.
It's almost as if they understood how the game works...
yes but how does zerg answer to ffe in a viable way without 3 hatch no gas ?!
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Too bad they didn't take Bifrost instead of Daybreak. Arkanoid would be probably too much, but Bifrost is cool.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On January 16 2013 22:16 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 22:10 Evangelist wrote:
I like it how GomTV eventually arrived at the same conclusion as Blizzard had when they started the game. Rocks on the third = more aggressive early game.
It's almost as if they understood how the game works... yes but how does zerg answer to ffe in a viable way without 3 hatch no gas ?!
By punishing a greedy FFE with aggression?
There's plenty of Zerg attacks that don't have to be all in, it's just early SC2 seems to have programmed it into zerg players mind that if they make a unit before 15 minutes then they're behind. Zerg is perfectly fine to be even on bases in this game (for at least a little while), the only reason they take an extra one is because it's easier to take a third base with your third hatch than it is to just put it in your base for production.
It's a complete myth (unless zerg are going mass baneling) that zerg cannot be cost efficient with roach/hydra or even lings.
It's one of the major issues with map design because people say that a protoss player needs to get an early third (because zergs get an early third for free against an FFE currently), but by making that third easier to take for protoss it gives zergs an easier fourth base which forgoes any form of aggression in the middle of the game.
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On January 16 2013 22:16 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 22:10 Evangelist wrote:
I like it how GomTV eventually arrived at the same conclusion as Blizzard had when they started the game. Rocks on the third = more aggressive early game.
It's almost as if they understood how the game works... yes but how does zerg answer to ffe in a viable way without 3 hatch no gas ?!
Well, apparently (according to GOM, as far as I understand their press release) they think of something like:
quick expo, in base 3rd hatch, make units to destroy rocks, expand and put on pressure with the units.
I think the reason why they lowered the health of the rocks is because they think that will enable to zerg to put on pressure earlier compared to regular rocks, after they took down the said rocks.
Anyways, that is their plan. I'm looking forward to see whether it will work out or not.
edit: obviously with inbase 3rd hatch, it will make parting's soul train even stronger, as there is only one central location where it has to hit (the natural) and all rally units from the zerg only come from one direction.
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Good bye Antiga Shipyard. You were the host of many great and terrible games. I will never forget.
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So many silly comments in this thread about added rocks. Do you people actually look to see where the rocks are before you begin whining about Zerg? The rocks are added to the ramps, to make tighter chokes, presumably to make it easier for Toss to defend, not to prevent Zerg from getting a quick 3rd.
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Really liking the changes, especially the xelnaga change. Excited to see how it changes the way players try to get map awareness.
And I'm glad to see Antiga go!
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On January 16 2013 22:16 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 22:10 Evangelist wrote:
I like it how GomTV eventually arrived at the same conclusion as Blizzard had when they started the game. Rocks on the third = more aggressive early game.
It's almost as if they understood how the game works... yes but how does zerg answer to ffe in a viable way without 3 hatch no gas ?!
The rocks are not blocking the expo, they're just on the ramps to make tighter chokes. GOM is not that stupid to make 3 hatch builds impossible, they actually understand the game.
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Looks like a very nice map pool. Especially glad that both Antiga Shipyard and Entombed Valley are gone. Also like Gom's show of good will to use a Kespa map.
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On January 16 2013 20:40 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 20:37 Killmouse wrote:On January 16 2013 19:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 16 2013 19:39 Lunareste wrote:
Super happy that there are rocks blocking 3rds now. So tired of seeing zergs get a fast third in 2 matchups; ZvT and ZvP just changed for the better. They're not blocking thirds, they're blocking ramps to thirds to make it easier for protoss and terran to defend third bases. At least if I'm not totally mistaken. totally , many ppl think its blockin the third , no it isnt! Destructible rocks have been added to both second expansions Since destructible rocks have been added, it is expected that players will take a quick 2nd expansions followed by aggressive play. yeah totally not blocking the 3rd and protecting it will encourage aggressive play.
yes totally !
+ Show Spoiler +
zoom in
and belshir
+ Show Spoiler +
source:
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=1423696&category=13438
stop talkin about rock blockin third exp and zergs arnt able to expand fast third blabla
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On January 16 2013 19:14 algue wrote:
I just realised on Ikarion : the neutral supply depot is at the top of the ramp, how is a terran and protoss supposed to wall ?
It also seem that it's easier for the attacker than the defender to switch between the main ramp and the 2nd
it's raised
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Abyssal City had potential, make third a little easier and remove the damn water theme!
But glad to see 2 not very good maps for Protoss macro play go.
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Daybreak and Cloud Kingdom... Lord, why do you do this to me.
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noo, rocks got nerfed... we need a patch to fix that!!
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Seems to be a really interesting map pool to me : ]
Can't wait to see them played. Especially Icarus.
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Neo Planet S is a really cool map. There have been some amazing games on it on Proleague.
Too bad they didn't get rid of Daybreak.
I like the other changes they made to Bel'Shir Vestige and Whirlwind. The change to hide "overlord towers" at the natural is something that should happen on more maps since that often gives so much free important info to Zerg that the other races don't really have any way to get.
double edit: Apparently I misread.
Edit: Also 2 gold patches at the natural on that new map. What? That seems really cool though. The GSL map makers seem to be taking inspiration from the Kespa map makers and adding crazy to their maps, which is exactly what this game needs after a year of rather stagnant gameplay on maps that are all kinda too similar.
It definitely seems like they want to help the 5 Protoss out a bit.
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wow this is awesome news
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No reason to take a free overlord scout away on one map but leave it on cloud kingdom and daybreak. Shit needs to go.
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Two gold patches at the natural is kinda weird but I can dig it. Im curious how it will play out so I certainly want to see more of it.
It is a shame that Daybreak is still in the map pool but hopefully HotS will bring about the retirement of one of the great (albeit dated) WoL maps.
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On January 16 2013 22:43 Kitaen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:14 algue wrote:
I just realised on Ikarion : the neutral supply depot is at the top of the ramp, how is a terran and protoss supposed to wall ?
It also seem that it's easier for the attacker than the defender to switch between the main ramp and the 2nd it's raised
I wonder how it would play out since you cant repair a neutral supply depot so for example you cant go cc first at the top of the ramp I believe.
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On January 16 2013 18:37 algue wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 18:32 Tsubbi wrote:
did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this If you can't balance the game, balance the maps !
The Brood War approach.
That worked so this can as well
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the new maps are very protoss favored, also since the 2 protoss maps got removed/reworked, the 5 protoss players are gonna go further than youd think
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Thank god Antiga is gone, among other things. Good job, Gom
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On January 16 2013 23:35 X3GoldDot wrote:
the new maps are very protoss favored, also since the 2 protoss maps got removed/reworked, the 5 protoss players are gonna go further than youd think
Then Wings of Liberty can end just as the Brood War did, with a Protoss victory =)
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Can someone upload those to EU? I only found Neo Planet S
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These look like more balanced maps compared to the kespa ones
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On January 16 2013 23:42 Lunareste wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 23:35 X3GoldDot wrote:
the new maps are very protoss favored, also since the 2 protoss maps got removed/reworked, the 5 protoss players are gonna go further than youd think Then Wings of Liberty can end just as the Brood War did, with a Protoss victory =)
A terran victory for the end of Wings of Liberty would be better !
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The changes on Icarus are quite bizarre. I think GSL is buying the FRB thing, let's see how it goes.
No easy third base. And the back base can give a mineral/gas income boost, but for a short amount of time since has less total resources. The extra income allows players get bigger and stronger armies faster and with less worker supply. But porbably it can't remake them since resources will run out.
At this point, there will be two options: Two base all-in or using this stronger army to get more bases. Let's see what will happen.
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Ladder pool pls
Blizzard pls
I am fed up with LoL^^
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lol, 2 gold mineral patch in the back expo on icarus just makes me laugh
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They're removing Antiga!! YESSSSSS!!!
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lol, finally fix ladder spawns on antiga and entombed. GSL immediately removes them
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United States23455 Posts
Kind of glad Antiga and entombed it removed they were getting a little stale. Should be an interesting season with the new maps, and I am surprised they took a Kespa map. Pretty psyched.
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PlanetS:
Sorry but two gold bases in the middle of the map to the player that controls the game is stupid.
But the games coming from the Proleague have been quite entertaining but I see the gold bases in the middle ot be a big setback.
Akilon Flats:
I personally don't like this map because as Terran you can easily bunker rush the 1st expansion.
The changes made are quite good but I have some doubt that we will see good games from the map.
So many free bases sure but it's a map with a big choke in the middle with a high ground on either side, turtle turtle the best?
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why wont they get rid of whirlwind its garbage!!!
I want Ohana back
Looks to me like they are getting ready for HOTS
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Icarus looks a wee bit like Jungle Basin on a different tile set albeit with a much more complex attack routes.
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It's simple, but re adding rocks to 3rd base is probably the implest way to fix PvZ.
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On January 16 2013 18:23 Tsubbi wrote:
so no 3rd base for zerg on whirlwind and belshir, time travel indeed
= deliberate nerf of zerg late game?
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Does anybody know who is sponsoring GSL this season?
I saw a rumour on playxp that this season's sponsor is SK telecom...... Cant be true right? I mean Kespa chairman is from one of the board of directors from SK telecom...
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On January 17 2013 00:41 LoveTool wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 18:23 Tsubbi wrote:
so no 3rd base for zerg on whirlwind and belshir, time travel indeed = deliberate nerf of zerg late game?
For the 100th time, the rocks do NOT block the expansion, can people please know what they're talking about, before they start talking about nerfs and whining about balance?
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On January 17 2013 00:50 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 00:41 LoveTool wrote:On January 16 2013 18:23 Tsubbi wrote:
so no 3rd base for zerg on whirlwind and belshir, time travel indeed = deliberate nerf of zerg late game? For the 100th time, the rocks do NOT block the expansion, can people please know what they're talking about, before they start talking about nerfs and whining about balance?
to be fair the announcement lacks pictures of the map and the wording is very misleading, everybody was basically safe to assume it blocks the 3rd
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Destructible rocks...? No more fast thirds for Protoss and Zerg. Terran just got a bit stronger. We can already build a third OC and not lift it till the time is right.
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I enjoy new maps, but without wanting to sound rude to the maker - I think Neo Planet looks very amateuristic compared to many of the monthly mapper winners I've seen. Very good that at least there is incentive to refreshing the pool for tournaments though
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Icarus, despite having a few gold mineral patches and an inside base, the third is very far away and hard to defend. I would expect a lot of 2 base zerg on this map even in ZvT and especially in ZvP
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wow lots of changes! ^^ should mix things up a bit. I think they should have added a different Kespa map, maybe CalDeum. Mainly cause I really like how unique that map is and all the cool features they have on it
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Is it just me but on Icarus your natural has 2 patches of high yield minerals?
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Omg those comments about the rocks on Whirlwind are hilarious. Someone posts how its Taldarim LE now, next one corrects him. Post immediately after complains again. The OP should better update it haha.
Still wonder how it is possible to think there are rocks blocking a hatch from going down, when it is stated in the next line that it is expected people take a fast 3rd now because of the rocks.
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On January 17 2013 00:58 geokilla wrote:
Destructible rocks...? No more fast thirds for Protoss and Zerg. Terran just got a bit stronger. We can already build a third OC and not lift it till the time is right.
To be honest, zerg domination has a lot to do with how easy it is to get fast 3 bases.
Limitting a zerg on 2 bases longer by map structure should have been done month ago instead of us keep playing on Ohana, Daybreak, Entombed and all that jazz
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Norway25712 Posts
Icarus looks b-e-a-utiful. Glad there are some pretty good and big changes here.
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I'm skeptical of that Icarus map, everything else looks good.
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On January 17 2013 01:24 FeyFey wrote:
Omg those comments about the rocks on Whirlwind are hilarious. Someone posts how its Taldarim LE now, next one corrects him. Post immediately after complains again. The OP should better update it haha.
Still wonder how it is possible to think there are rocks blocking a hatch from going down, when it is stated in the next line that it is expected people take a fast 3rd now because of the rocks.
Right? And it still goes on. People just can't read apparently.
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On January 17 2013 01:17 Cocoba wrote:
Is it just me but on Icarus your natural has 2 patches of high yield minerals?
No, I see them too
Very nice addition! I am actually surprised that this is the first map I see this on. This actually might add some spice to the early game.
I think all present maps should have 1-2 gold patches in their main, just to see how this would change the game
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Thank Flash for the temporary Xel'naga towers. Sounds like a great idea.
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Finally Abyssal and Antiga are gone...what shitty maps.
When I saw Bel'Shir Vestige at first I thought it was Bel'Shit Beach. Was about to lose my mind.
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Love GSL
Love the new maps/changes !!
With one exception of Entombed Valley.. I always thought very good games were created on that map.. oh well
Great overall.. GSL is without a doubt the best SC2 / E-Sports show ever made... Very high quality, very professional with great casters and exceptional game directing (Legend)...
Really want to underline how big of an impact the game directing has.. Huge shoutout to Legend who is a grandmaster observer and truly a legend in my eyes.. thank you
+ Show Spoiler +Sorry for going off-topic with that, just had to mention it
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Since destructible rocks have been added, it is expected that players will take a quick 2nd expansions followed by aggressive play.
Why would they add a suggestion to the new maps announcement? Seems a bit silly
Loving Neo Planet and Icarus; do all Kespa maps run without watchtowers? Icarus terrain just seems fun mid to late game.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO akilon flats is soooooooooooooooooo bad
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I like the tiny gold spots in Icarus. That said, I love ICCUP Icarus as well (check that map out)
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Hm, I still would like to see KeSPA Neo Bifrost instead of Akilon Flats, but still nice changes to the mappool overall
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Really not a fan of Daybreak still in the pool. Others are cool, though.
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"The tower at the fast expansion where overlords can hide has been removed."
Wow, I have been waiting for maps to start doing this ever since the queen/overlord buff. Everyone complained that now queens are excellent all-around defense, so zergs could have a non-risky build if they wanted, then zerg also got even better scouting with fast overlords. And yet, maps like cloud kingdom STILL have towers outside of the natural so you can't even leave your base without zerg knowing. I'm so excited for these sort of changes to start happening. If zerg is dominating the scene, then start removing aspects of maps that only zerg are able to use.
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good maps, very good ideas to allow players to play different styles, not only camping on 3 bases ^^
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On January 17 2013 02:14 Confuse wrote:Show nested quote +Since destructible rocks have been added, it is expected that players will take a quick 2nd expansions followed by aggressive play. Why would they add a suggestion to the new maps announcement? Seems a bit silly Loving Neo Planet and Icarus; do all Kespa maps run without watchtowers? Icarus terrain just seems fun mid to late game.
To explain themselves & their intentions with the change most likely.
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On January 16 2013 18:32 Tsubbi wrote:
did nobody else notice that there are freaking rocks at the 3rd of whirlwind and belshir? lol wtf is this
Yeah i have concerns about this as well. With Protoss being able to safely FE due to the distance, and now Z's 3rd is really is really delayed. I don't see this is as the right way to balance Whirlwind or Vestige.
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Love this new map pool change, only questionable map I personally don't like it Alkion Flats. But should be a pretty good season to kick off the year.
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On January 17 2013 01:51 Al Bundy wrote:
Thank Flash for the temporary Xel'naga towers. Sounds like a great idea.
This has been done before, remember Xelnaga Fortress?
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On January 17 2013 02:19 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I like the tiny gold spots in Icarus. That said, I love ICCUP Icarus as well (check that map out)
I have mixed feelings about the tiny gold spots.
To me this basically say hey call down your mules here. On the other hand i feel like allowing players to collect money slightly faster in the early game, could move the game along more quickly so i like it in that aspect.
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Whirlwind, "Destructible rocks have been added to both second expansions."
Bad, no one has been wanting more rocks.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36996 Posts
Oo;; siiiiiiiiiiick changes!
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Daybreak is like the best map ever. so happy thats still around.. they are removing the gold bases from that one map though right?
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Whoa, Icarus and Neo Planet look sick! If only they were on ladder now haha
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On January 17 2013 02:45 Cyanocyst wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:19 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I like the tiny gold spots in Icarus. That said, I love ICCUP Icarus as well (check that map out) I have mixed feelings about the tiny gold spots. To me this basically say hey call down your mules here. On the other hand i feel like allowing players to collect money slightly faster in the early game, could move the game along more quickly so i like it in that aspect.
mules mine the same amount of mineral, doesnt matter gold or blue minerals
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Replace CK or daybreak with bifrost and it would have been perfect
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On January 17 2013 02:53 Jepsyn wrote:
Daybreak is like the best map ever. so happy thats still around.. they are removing the gold bases from that one map though right?
What ? Daybreak is the most boring map ever when it comes to late game, both players are camping ! CK is way more entertaining when comes the time to build a 4th and 5th base !
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On January 17 2013 02:53 Jepsyn wrote:
Daybreak is like the best map ever. so happy thats still around.. they are removing the gold bases from that one map though right?
In modern thinking, gold bases are fine and daybreak is bad and old. Get with it, man.
I can't wait to see who does a better job microing their workers onto the gold minerals on Icarus, though. I'm having flashbacks to Kulas Extreme.
I did really like Icarus when I first saw it and I'm glad it was picked up by GSL. Seems like a cool map to try... not too wonky but not completely orthodox either. Well, maybe it's pretty wonky... But I like it, anyway. Might watch more of this season than the previous, if I can find the time.
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On January 17 2013 02:53 Jepsyn wrote:
Daybreak is like the best map ever. so happy thats still around.. they are removing the gold bases from that one map though right?
Daybreak was the best map ever. It's getting extremely stale, and it needs to be replaced fast. I can understand GSL not wanting to start the new year with a completely new mappool, but i still hope that next season daybreak and CK will be gone at least.
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On January 17 2013 02:46 Babru wrote:
Whirlwind, "Destructible rocks have been added to both second expansions."
Bad, no one has been wanting more rocks.
Everyone wants earlier aggression though. I think most people don't care how it's done as long as it's not sit back and macro for 12 minutes.
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On January 17 2013 02:45 Cyanocyst wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:19 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I like the tiny gold spots in Icarus. That said, I love ICCUP Icarus as well (check that map out) I have mixed feelings about the tiny gold spots. To me this basically say hey call down your mules here. On the other hand i feel like allowing players to collect money slightly faster in the early game, could move the game along more quickly so i like it in that aspect.
MULES have no different mining on gold patch since like a YEAR.
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I like how they put in just a couple gold mineral rocks in Icarus, and at a sheltered semi-natural expansion at that. Perhaps that was the way they should've been implemented in maps from the start.
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Daybreak needs to go. Sick of seeing it.
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I feel like if Icarus turns out to be a great map we will see more and more 1 gaz base BW style
Would be fun to see !
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Sweet! glad to see some new maps, they all know what they need to do. This is great to see :D
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icarus looks weird but i will take a better look of it at GSL
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I can't believe they put akilon flats, it's pretty bad, but otherwise the map pool is really great! I'm really happy they removed entombed and antigua shityard
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I'm excited to see these new maps, They look like they'll be a lot of fun to watch on!
And is it just me, or do I see two gold mineral patches in the natural expansion on GSL Icarus? That could be interesting.
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FINALLY Antiga gone!
Waited since day 1 to remove this map, now my dream came true ^^
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omg kespa neo planet s looks amazing, it looks so good it makes me want to play sc2 again for the first time in almost half a year O__O
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Its about time GOM brought back timed destructive watch towers. They only did that for one map, I can't remember which.
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Wow, finally Gold/Blue mixed bases! I have been saying this forever
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LOL Akilon Flats. What a shit decision. Absolutely the worst map they've put in in a while. The mixed minerals are pretty dumb imo. Guess we'll see if it yields anything interesting or turns out to just be a normal expand with a little bit of extra love.
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I thought they were gonna port Icarus, but they didn't -.-
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What's up with the rocks and the gold minerals? I thought GSL stopped that stuff.
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Icarus has some gold patches, or?
Intersting to see how it works...
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I would have really liked if they had KESPA Neo Bifrost in the map pool, that map has really grown on me.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:27 Meteora.GB wrote:
Its about time GOM brought back timed destructive watch towers. They only did that for one map, I can't remember which.
Xel'naga fortress had a timed one.
ICCUP Testbug had a destroyable one.
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Big changes! i hope that its a good pool change.
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looking forward to see games on these maps.
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On January 17 2013 04:46 Raysdan wrote:
I would have really liked if they had KESPA Neo Bifrost in the map pool, that map has really grown on me.
I much prefer the zerg and protoss play on Neo Bifrost to their play on Neo Planet S, but the Terran play is better on Neo Planet S.
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I am very glad that they removed Abyssal City, one of the worst maps for Protoss and Terran (to a certain extent) against Zerg and Antiga, which was a 2-base fest for the toss. But it sucks for Terran because it has a lost a good map for them. And Entombed Valley was a guaranteed Protoss win because of the easy to secure third base.
I'm really liking this! ^^
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A lot of changes. It's...interesting. We'll just have to wait until they actually get played to see.
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On January 16 2013 21:23 HonorZ wrote:
I liked abyssal city. Why does it have to go ?
Does anyone now if it's imbalanced ?
It was EXTREMELY imbalanced for Toss and Terran against Zerg. The third was very hard to defend for P/T. But I am going to miss the floating death animation!
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On January 16 2013 18:23 Tsubbi wrote:
so no 3rd base for zerg on whirlwind and belshir, time travel indeed
Hopefully the destructible rock change will help.
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Why was abyssal city removed?
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The gold mineral patches are back?!
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always nice with new maps
although those two gold bases in the middle seem too close.. inb4 planetaries and tanks
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As a zerg I LOVE Icarus :O
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Austria24417 Posts
On January 17 2013 06:29 chichom27 wrote:
Why was abyssal city removed?
Because of huge racial imbalances.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On January 17 2013 06:34 dextrin303 wrote:always nice with new maps although those two gold bases in the middle seem too close.. inb4 planetaries and tanks
If someone manages to do that in the middle of the map without being stopped, they deserve to win the game.
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A few peculiar decisions made by the GSL team regarding map balance. I wonder how the games will go now.
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On January 17 2013 06:43 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 06:34 dextrin303 wrote:always nice with new maps although those two gold bases in the middle seem too close.. inb4 planetaries and tanks If someone manages to do that in the middle of the map without being stopped, they deserve to win the game.
And this map is in the SPL and I never saw something broken with that yet
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why the hell do the xelnaga power down after 7 minutes in akilon flats? 0_o
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Icarus looks like an interesting map.
Nice to see the XelNaga Towers time out on Flats. Seems like a good idea.
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Icarus is neat! I wonder how the 2 gold patches will affect play...
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On January 17 2013 06:55 Billinator wrote:
why the hell do the xelnaga power down after 7 minutes in akilon flats? 0_o
Because the people of Phaethon haven't paid their energy bill.
Doesn't seem to bad of an idea to me to be honest. Their vision is really important in the early game but later on becomes less and less crucial. It pretty much requires you to work a lot harder to gain vision (e.g. for tanks). I like the idea because it requires more map presence and activity (or so I hope).
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On January 17 2013 06:55 Billinator wrote:
why the hell do the xelnaga power down after 7 minutes in akilon flats? 0_o
Because they want to encourage scouting throughout the game, not just sending one guy over and forgetting about it for the rest of the game. I think that's a great change. Reduces cheese, but doesn't reward lazy play.
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On January 17 2013 02:58 Gfire wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:53 Jepsyn wrote:
Daybreak is like the best map ever. so happy thats still around.. they are removing the gold bases from that one map though right? In modern thinking, gold bases are fine and daybreak is bad and old. Get with it, man. I can't wait to see who does a better job microing their workers onto the gold minerals on Icarus, though. I'm having flashbacks to Kulas Extreme. I did really like Icarus when I first saw it and I'm glad it was picked up by GSL. Seems like a cool map to try... not too wonky but not completely orthodox either. Well, maybe it's pretty wonky... But I like it, anyway. Might watch more of this season than the previous, if I can find the time.
In my opinion golds have been fine since the mule change a year ago. I'm sure plenty will disagree with me but once everyone could make use of gold equally I don't think there was a problem. We saw that in MLG for a while, they kept gold on Antiga (which is funny because it's a bad map for gold. He who holds the middle already has an advantage on that map. And yet still saw the same racial balances as Antiga without gold.
I'm glad Kespa wasn't afraid to mess around with gold minerals.
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I like nerfing watchtowers, but i dont like some odd 7 minute rule that makes the gap between ladder and tournament experience even bigger. I would be ok with removing them from the game completely to be honest, when i think about it i actually would like that very much (im zerg so i got free scouts with speedlings all game long anyways, not to mention placing out overlords with speed on key locations).
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On January 17 2013 07:22 Babru wrote:
I like nerfing watchtowers, but i dont like some odd 7 minute rule that makes the gap between ladder and tournament experience even bigger. I would be ok with removing them from the game completely to be honest, when i think about it i actually would like that very much (im zerg so i got free scouts with speedlings all game long anyways, not to mention placing out overlords with speed on key locations).
This is nothing new though. This has been around in some tournament maps such as Testbug for almost 2 years.
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On January 17 2013 07:25 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 07:22 Babru wrote:
I like nerfing watchtowers, but i dont like some odd 7 minute rule that makes the gap between ladder and tournament experience even bigger. I would be ok with removing them from the game completely to be honest, when i think about it i actually would like that very much (im zerg so i got free scouts with speedlings all game long anyways, not to mention placing out overlords with speed on key locations). This is nothing new though. This has been around in some tournament maps such as Testbug for almost 2 years.
I see. I dont think ive seen that map played in any tournament ive watched in a long time though.
Anyways, like i said, lets remove watchtowers all together.
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Far 3rd on Neo Planet S and Icarus...Interesting to see any playstyle changes caused by the maps with all these super fast 3 hatch builds and triple cc builds as of late.
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icarus looks like it could produce some interesting games for zvt. zvp...i don't see how you could lose as protoss on that map. probably don't even need a forge to fe
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It is cool that GSL is adopting Kespa maps. I don't see a map that I don't like, hopefully it will make this a good season. Gold expansions on Neo Planet S should be interesting, and I love the lack of watch towers. The timer on the watch tower in Alkalon Flats is an idea I like and I feel it should be played with more in the future. I am very excited!
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awesome changes, cant wait to see how gsl plays out on these new maps
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On January 17 2013 07:29 Babru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 07:25 TheDougler wrote:On January 17 2013 07:22 Babru wrote:
I like nerfing watchtowers, but i dont like some odd 7 minute rule that makes the gap between ladder and tournament experience even bigger. I would be ok with removing them from the game completely to be honest, when i think about it i actually would like that very much (im zerg so i got free scouts with speedlings all game long anyways, not to mention placing out overlords with speed on key locations). This is nothing new though. This has been around in some tournament maps such as Testbug for almost 2 years. I see. I dont think ive seen that map played in any tournament ive watched in a long time though. Anyways, like i said, lets remove watchtowers all together.
If your concern is ladder and tournament maps being too different than removing towers isnt going to change that because blizzard isnt going to remove towers from ladder maps anytime soon.
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Icarus seems like a really interesting map, since grabbing a third seems really difficult. I wonder how Zerg will fare on this map though.
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On January 17 2013 06:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:Because of huge racial imbalances.
Which ones? Is there another thread that talks about it?
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On January 16 2013 18:23 Tsubbi wrote:
so no 3rd base for zerg on whirlwind and belshir, time travel indeed
Must be a Protoss conservation plan, let them get to RO8 on two base all ins like 2011
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On January 17 2013 07:29 Babru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 07:25 TheDougler wrote:On January 17 2013 07:22 Babru wrote:
I like nerfing watchtowers, but i dont like some odd 7 minute rule that makes the gap between ladder and tournament experience even bigger. I would be ok with removing them from the game completely to be honest, when i think about it i actually would like that very much (im zerg so i got free scouts with speedlings all game long anyways, not to mention placing out overlords with speed on key locations). This is nothing new though. This has been around in some tournament maps such as Testbug for almost 2 years. I see. I dont think ive seen that map played in any tournament ive watched in a long time though. Anyways, like i said, lets remove watchtowers all together.
There was a cool map a while ago that had destructible watch towers.
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United States97276 Posts
On January 17 2013 09:01 chichom27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 06:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 17 2013 06:29 chichom27 wrote:
Why was abyssal city removed? Because of huge racial imbalances. Which ones? Is there another thread that talks about it?
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/555_Crux_Abyssal_City_LE
Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 10-16 (38.5%) [ Games ]
ZvP: 10-9 (52.6%) [ Games ]
PvT: 12-18 (40%) [ Games ]
On January 17 2013 09:35 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 07:29 Babru wrote:On January 17 2013 07:25 TheDougler wrote:On January 17 2013 07:22 Babru wrote:
I like nerfing watchtowers, but i dont like some odd 7 minute rule that makes the gap between ladder and tournament experience even bigger. I would be ok with removing them from the game completely to be honest, when i think about it i actually would like that very much (im zerg so i got free scouts with speedlings all game long anyways, not to mention placing out overlords with speed on key locations). This is nothing new though. This has been around in some tournament maps such as Testbug for almost 2 years. I see. I dont think ive seen that map played in any tournament ive watched in a long time though. Anyways, like i said, lets remove watchtowers all together. There was a cool map a while ago that had destructible watch towers.
Xelnaga fortress had a watchtower that stopped working after a set amount of time like the new Akilon ones.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/444_Crux_Xel'Naga_Fortress
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hmmm don't know what to think of Icarus just yet, and I don't think it's on NA to fool around with ingame
Seems tough for Zerg from the image, but it also seems like a muta map ^_^. Yay for entertainment.
Surprised Daybreak is still in though. It's a great map, but it's too old. It's become the new metalopolis. Let it die already and add Bitfrost or something -_-
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Korea (South)855 Posts
I'm glad to see that most of you like our map choice.
We tried to make it as balanced as possible for current race standings.
Another thing we wanted to do was to try create as diverse play style as possible.
It's the last WOL season and we felt that lot of people(including us) are becoming somewhat bored with metagame.
We still left some old maps as to not make it too difficult for players to practice.
I wanted to add more screenshots from within the game but did not have enough time to manage it until announcement.
Of course, whether the choices have been good or bad won't be verified until we see the actual games, but overall we are satisfied with what we have come up with.
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Here is my opinion of the new map pool from Mvp's perspective, taken from the Mvp fan club:
GoneGSL Abyssal City LE Mvp's Record: 5-3 (62.5%). This was actually a decent map for Mvp, so it's sad to see it go. This map helped Mvp win the NesTea award, after all. GSL Antiga Shipyard Mvp's Record: 19-8 (70.4%). Nooo, we must say goodbye to the Mvp map itself, Antiga Shipyard! I had lots of memories of Mvp on this map, especially his TvZ. He had the most standard build ever: use the Reactor Hellion to apply pressure and deny Zerg's third, establish a quick 3 Orbital Command, and expand quickly. Then, he had beautiful Tank and Bunker placement so that the Zerg couldn't punish him, and he soon moved out with a classic Tank/Marine push and dismantled the Zerg. His play on Antiga Shipyard was so beautiful... Although I'm sure that other tournaments might keep Antiga Shipyard, this feels like the end of an era. I think Antiga Shipyard will always be known as Mvp's Map. GSL Entombed Valley Mvp's Record: 14-8 (63.6%). This was another great map for Mvp. A lot of great maps for Mvp are lost this season, it seems. UnchangedGSL Cloud Kingdom Mvp's Record: 6-8 (42.9%). Cloud Kingdom isn't exactly Mvp's best map, but he'll have to deal with it again. Hopefully, he can turn his record around and dominate this map too. GSL Daybreak Mvp's Record: 17-13 (56.7%). Daybreak is a decent map for Mvp though. Hopefully, it will continue to serve him well. RevisedGSL Bel'Shir Vestige SE Mvp's Record ( Bel'Shir Vestige): 2-3 (40.0%). Not much data on this map. GSL Whirlwind SE Mvp's Record ( Whirlwind): 3-8 (27.3%). Hopefully, the changes will help Mvp out, he seems to be struggling very badly here! NewGSL Akilon Flats GSL Icarus KeSPA Neo Planet S Overall CommentsAs a spectator, new maps are always great. As a Mvp fan, the new maps excite me because I know that Mvp will pull out some amazing builds and it's always lovely to see Mvp play a new map. Perhaps he will pull out an imbalanced 2 Rax Bunker rush with ingenious Bunker placements, or he'll tailor a new build to the map (sort of like his beautiful TvZ Mech/Banshee build on Ohana). However, I feel like these changes do not really help Mvp. First of all, he lost 3 of his best maps: Entombed Valley, Antiga Shipyard (The Mvp Map ), and Abyssal City. Then, we kept two of the maps that are decent for him (Daybreak and Cloud Kingdom), and we're revising two of his worst maps (Bel'Shir Vestige and Whirlwind). While the changes might help him out, I feel like he lost too many good maps and kept too many bad ones. Overall verdict: The map pool change is bad for Mvp, but just wait and see what he'll do with the new ones. <3
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honestly, i like seen short, micro-intensive games. More variation than the 2/3 base openings we always see these days.
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wow icarus looks REALLY interesting, i'd like to see the creator's thoughts on it though
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Just remove Watch Towers from the game, it will be good for everyone.
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I'm quitting SC2 if these maps ever get to ladder. Not fair to have 3rds blocking my third.
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On January 17 2013 11:39 nomyx wrote:
I'm quitting SC2 if these maps ever get to ladder. Not fair to have 3rds blocking my third.
The rocks don't block your third...
Just compare the new Whirlwind:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qjIVR.jpg)
...to the old Whirlwind
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/550_Crux%20Whirlwind.jpg)
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On January 17 2013 11:15 fabiano wrote:
Just remove Watch Towers from the game, it will be good for everyone.
Well, I feel they haven't experimented enough with the watch tower to reach such a decisive verdict. The 7 minute watch tower thing is cool, but they should add awesome features to the watch towers to try to balance them: why don't they try out Xel'naga sensor towers, or destructible towers, or towers with a weirdly shaped sight area, or towers that interfere with each other, so that if each side controls a tower, the overlap is not revealed for either player, or... Well, you get my point, they should try to create more inventive Xel'naga towers.
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I feel like watch towers should be along the side of the map as opposed to the middle .
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ooh lol, why didn't i think that the rocks might not have been expo blockers >.< lol, i guess i was too used to seeing rock updates in blizz patches
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Russian Federation221 Posts
Well most people made comments about two gold mineral patches on Icarus but I didn’t see comments that expansion on Icarus has only one gas. Imho having only one gas is much more crucial for gameplay than two gold patches.
Personally I like that.
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Someone needs to rephrase the wording on the Whirlwind SE to show that the rocks have been added to the ramp rather than on the 3rd.
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looking forward to the new maps, hope that they change the metagame abit so daybreak and CK are also played differently, and that players will actually pick them to play rather than sticking to the known/changed maps
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Kinda sad to see Antiga go. I mean, it makes sense, but it's been around for so long....
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With the Zerg favored maps being either removed or changed, and Protoss the least represented this season, a Terran Gsl champion should be expected!
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Must be difficult to work at Blizzard. The community yells at you for 2 years to have balanced maps. You insist on having a varied ladder map pool to encourage a variety of strategies, but the community beats you up so bad that you finally give in and put in Daybreak/Cloud Kingdom/Ohana type maps--all minor variations on the same theme. And then something completely unforeseen happens: the metagame stagnates and the game dies. Now the community is applauding other mapmakers for 'mixing things up' by doing all the things you were doing years ago.
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I like the other new ladder map more... and it is also difficult to play on it for zerg and protoss... so why not introduce it :'(. Guess GSLs guys don't think that terrans have a problem in GSL
On January 17 2013 23:08 jdsowa wrote:
Must be difficult to work at Blizzard. The community yells at you for 2 years to have balanced maps. You insist on having a varied ladder map pool to encourage a variety of strategies, but the community beats you up so bad that you finally give in and put in Daybreak/Cloud Kingdom/Ohana type maps--all minor variations on the same theme. And then something completely unforeseen happens: the metagame stagnates and the game dies. Now the community is applauding other mapmakers for 'mixing things up' by doing all the things you were doing years ago.
This is a bit one-sided isn't it? If you go back to the first blizzard maps on the ladder, I see your point. I liked scrap station. But the maps that blizzard introduced afterwards have been all uninspirational, I think. They all looked dumb and were hard to play mostly for zerg and protoss. If you have like few seconds rush distance you can't defend as zerg or many new maps had dumb features. Together with the blizzard restriction not to put a restriction on the possibility to block ramps or have certain spawnpositions denied by default this was horrible. Thats the reason why maps like Searing Crater did not work.
You are right that the game stagnated partly because the maps are all the same kind of map. But if you look at the history of mapmaking I do not think that blizzard fought this development enough - things blizzard tried made just no sense. Look at the season 3 additions.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2943356
Also note Antiga stayed The better maps came mostly from non blizzard producers still.
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I think the worst part of the ladder map situation is that Blizzard has insisted on absolute control of the map pool - No custom ladders allowed (like ICCUP, Fish, etc), slow and reluctant map pool changes, mostly only blizzard maps in the pool, and non-blizzard maps browderized, etc, etc. They brought this on themselves, and killed their own game. Justice on that part, I guess - I just wish the rest of us weren't as beholden to Blizzard's iron fist and their Actovision monetization overlords.
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On January 18 2013 11:12 Winterfell wrote:
They brought this on themselves, and killed their own game. Justice on that part, I guess - I just wish the rest of us weren't as beholden to Blizzard's iron fist and their Actovision monetization overlords.
1) This game is not dead. Do I really need to show you evidence?
2) You are not beholden to Blizzard, you can play any game you choose.
Try to just enjoy yourself.
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On January 18 2013 14:04 thurst0n wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 11:12 Winterfell wrote:
They brought this on themselves, and killed their own game. Justice on that part, I guess - I just wish the rest of us weren't as beholden to Blizzard's iron fist and their Actovision monetization overlords. 1) This game is not dead. Do I really need to show you evidence? 2) You are not beholden to Blizzard, you can play any game you choose. Try to just enjoy yourself.
By posting on this website and this post specifically about Starcraft 2, he is in fact proving to himself that SC2 is not dying. He is just too blinded by his death to Blizzard attitude that he can't see it.
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On January 17 2013 23:08 jdsowa wrote:
Must be difficult to work at Blizzard. The community yells at you for 2 years to have balanced maps. You insist on having a varied ladder map pool to encourage a variety of strategies, but the community beats you up so bad that you finally give in and put in Daybreak/Cloud Kingdom/Ohana type maps--all minor variations on the same theme. And then something completely unforeseen happens: the metagame stagnates and the game dies. Now the community is applauding other mapmakers for 'mixing things up' by doing all the things you were doing years ago.
Theres a fixed mineral economy on 3 bases. Naturally the game would stagnate once it tried to branch beyond 1-2 base all-inn.
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COME ON DRG!!!! With these new maps and the changes to infestor, lets see a resurgence of your dominating muta/bling!
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why so many rocks?
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On January 19 2013 18:42 bo1b wrote:
COME ON DRG!!!! With these new maps and the changes to infestor, lets see a resurgence of your dominating muta/bling!
it suddenly hit me that DRG's playstyle that made him so great was 2base/3base pre-hive... and most of these new maps seem to favor that. i hope he didnt forget how to play like that, cuz i wanna see that again!
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On January 19 2013 18:42 bo1b wrote:
COME ON DRG!!!! With these new maps and the changes to infestor, lets see a resurgence of your dominating muta/bling!
I am thinking the same!
Can't wait to see less Infestor play and more Muta/ling/bling!
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Happy to see Gom moving away from 3 base turtle fests.
This season will be good.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/e6I1Y.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dQY4g.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CZId7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://file.thisisgame.com/upload/board/2013/01/15/20130115024330_3132.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://file.thisisgame.com/upload/board/2013/01/15/20130115024312_6466.jpg)
Sniper vs 
Huk game 1 is on Icarus. They might be the first to play it if no one in groups A or B select it
