|
Amen bkrow. I don't even like using the buzzword anymore myself.
*
I'm going to touch base on a few issues:
- Shelf-life is an important component of competitive gaming and it actually works against it.
- I'd say the sub-culture is more socially acceptable today because the new generation of parent's grew up playing Atari/NES/etc.
We have to be careful when we're talking about sports entertainment and MMA. If we're talking about how the core fans interact with wrestling and the sport of MMA then fine. There are some similarities there, but let's not confuse what is sport and what isn't. Sport and spectacle overlap one another. I find it very flimsy. >_<
Recall how I spoke about different generations viewing things differently before. Let's look at the MMA/UFC specifically and how old fashioned sports purists who enjoy boxing loathe the idea of MMA because they find it to be too barbaric as Bob McCowan used to put it. Keyword here being used to. Sure enough, we're showing the old purists like him that there is a lot more to it and it's not as barbaric as it appears to be. Now, some of these sports purists are starting to buy into MMA as an actual sport.
Not only that but we're seeing growth when fighters win with certain styles (the meta game is always shifting). This leads to more fighters and enthusiasts training in those styles. For instance, Karate registration exploded when the Dragon Machida won the belt. From an audience perspective I can buy into Torte's spiel about MMA, which is very similar to that of the WWE and it's appeal to their respective core fans, but if we're talking about the sport's dynamics? Yeah, it might be better to leave the two alone.
|
On January 09 2013 08:34 Zaurus wrote:
There are many things similar to the "esport" you mention. Competitive chess, board games, spelling bee and eating competition. Is it justifiable to call them names like c-sport, b-sport and spelling sport? Personally I feel that the word sport cannot be used just because there are similarity to sport. There are way too many activities with sports like characteristic. Sport in itself is too fundamental.
You are a bit late to the party with those arguments. It's called esports since fucking QuakeWorld or something, since the 1990s. It's a word that the people used, that started all we have now. They dreamed of stadiums full of cheering fans watching clanwars live, like what you know from a real sport. They wanted to push people to think of that... so "e-sports".
I personally would have liked something else, perhaps simply "competitive gaming". Also, "cybersports" in a Russian accent sounds neat.
|
The fighting game community is the only one that is honest about all this. They aren't athletes, it's just playing games competitively.
|
On January 09 2013 08:15 Fischbacher wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 08:11 Zaurus wrote:
Esport is not a sport. We should not even use sports in it. Look at how unfit people are playing it. I agree there is a community and prove the point that gaming is sociable. But how can people begin to think esport is close to being a sport. We will all die to obese related diseases if the whole world starts thinking we can do sports by playing games. The only game I can consider sports like are games on WI. As much as I like gaming, I don't see how it can become socially acceptable as sports anytime soon.
Are we going to start calling playing rubric cube box-sport? I've yet to see a pro SCII player that looks less fit than a linebacker... Also, sport and physical exercise aren't necessarily the same thing. They overlap a lot but a sport doesn't have to be physically demanding to be a sport.
and I want to know to what extent should something be physical enough to be called sports.
Is moving finger and arm not enough? Or maybe swing a gold pad? Or shooing and archery? And how about racing?
|
An interesting thing to note - On both IGN and Gamespot, any mention of eSports or StarCraft (in fact, negative comments on IGN's IPL SC2 youtube page is common) generate bashing of SC2.
In contrast, Marvel Vs Capcom 3 (or fighting games in general) and Gamespot and/or their coverage of EVO or any fighting game tournament has not a single flame.
I think the offending term is "eSport". Evolution Championship Series (EVO) doesn't really advertise eSports (at least AFAIK, I haven't really followed EVO, I just looked on their pages and their videos and see no offending term). EVO simply advertise itself as a competitive video game tournament.
[Edit}
On January 09 2013 14:14 Serpico wrote:
The fighting game community is the only one that is honest about all this. They aren't athletes, it's just playing games competitively.
Neat, someone mentioned this while I was writing. Again, another interesting to note in my observation regarding why gamespot/ign posters are bashing Starcraft Tournaments but not EVO fighting game tournaments.
____________________
As much as I like eSports, I feel that eSports in general has lead to some level of elitism and bashing other non "eSports" games. Which is why at times I am partly sort of with the anti-eSports crowd (the term itself, not the concept). But on the other hand, South Korea had something really special with Starcraft and describing as simply a video game tournament doesn't do it justice (we all remember the epic intros, the huge crowds, etc). So I definitely agree with TDL's point on why call it "eSports" even when it's not really a "sport".
Now onto my opinion why I am against calling eSports a real sport. It might sound silly but these are just my thoughts (maybe silly but maybe others may agree).
I remember reading an article about how Bejeweled could help contribute to brain function or something (comparing to to similar Tetris effects on the brain) but there was a comment bashing Bejeweled as a mindless luck based game that only involves recognizing patterns.
+ Show Spoiler +
The commenter said Starcraft would be a better game (or Tetris Attack, "Tetris Attack" is like bejeweled in the sense that you try to match 3 matching pieces but it's less luck-based since you can move pieces to try to get them to the designated location).
Tetris Attack I can agree on but I'm honestly not so sure about SC.
The thing is, (in the case of Bejeweled, even if luck based) the fact that it is simple and involves recognizing patterns (which is also simple) and low stress play (SC can be a stressful game to play at times) is potential why it may have positive effects on mental health.
I've played StarJeweled (close enough to Bejeweled I'd say), I've played a ton of Tetris, and I've played a ton of SC2.
Out of the three, I felt that Tetris and StarJeweled were both simple and relaxing games. They weren't "distracting" to me at all.
SC2 on the other hand, I remember thinking about various strategies and things constantly at times (outside of the game). Sometimes I was obsessed with how to win or deal with certain strategies. At times I was overly obsessive with it where it might distract me from other things (like doing a test or something).
I don't know if there are any studies on a game like Starcraft compared to a game like Tetris (does the simpler game promote better brain function than the non-simple game)? My argument against SC (not scientiific but just a person experience) is that SC is less of a relaxing and a more stressful game. Plus, the variety in the game can lead to an excessive obsession.
Tetris on the other hand is really simple and it's not really obsessive prone game (I definitely had fun playing it on breaks at times in college but I never obsessed over the game).
Despite how SC is so much more sophisticated, my experience with Tetris (and Starjeweled) was better than playing SC in terms of mental state is better.
Regarding SC2 - I'd like to emphasize how stress can really be a bad thing on your mental state. It feels bad when going on a losing streak or getting cheesed (at least for most people). If you lose 5 games in a row or got cheesed and lost in a bad way, how does it affect your mental state? Usually it's a terrible feeling. You try to make it up by maybe playing more or become obsessive over those loses (maybe to the point of it distracting you from daily activities or whatever else you should be doing, like maybe a test or work or whatever).
+ Show Spoiler +Tetris and Bejeweled, don't really have these issues because they're simple and relaxing. Arguably Bejeweled is less skill based and more luck based than Tetris, in fact the person is right that Bejeweled is simply recognizing and memorizing patterns compared to Tetris... but the point is that both function similarly in that simply focusing on recognizing those patterns helps promote brain activity the same way, despite one being simpler than the other. The point of all this is despite the person bashing Bejeweled for being "an EZ game to play" or "luck based", Bejeweled probably contributes to a better and positive overall mental health than Starcraft (the person's example of a better game for that job). An important thing to note is that while SC is more complex, it's primary a competitive player vs player game (which again, leads to the scenario of feeling bad or trying to make things up when you lose 5 times in a row, etc). I remember reading that someone's wife (they were introducing to the game or something) threw their keyboard in frustration after being cannon rushed (an unfortunate way to introduce anyone to the game of Starcraft >.>). Simple (but still requires attention and reaction) games like Tetris or Bejeweled probably do a better job of leading to a healthy mental stat than Starcraft. Again here is Wikipedia (citing sources of course) Tetris effects on the brain section. Tetris has also shown to help deal with mentally traumatic events (reducing flashbacks, etc).
________________
So what am I going on and on about Starcraft vs Tetris vs Bejeweled? (And how the games affect a person's mental state?)
+ Show Spoiler +
I've always viewed video games as for relaxing and casual fun (or as a hobby in case of more serious investment into said game) as a #1 thing.
The concept of eSports has generally led to lots of people being a bit negative towards others' activities, a sort of elitism.
Compared to regular sports or anything else, I honestly find the eSports community at times to be the least enjoyable community to be in.
Don't get me wrong though, I like TL and have (and still have) great times being a part of the community (aside from the excessive non-constructive caster bashing that may happen frequently on the LR threads). I said this before but I am into and still into SC2 because of the positive atmosphere and experience. Artosis and Tasteless making Nestea jokes, people making memes, jokes in general about the game or SC2, etc.
I definitely want competitive video gaming to be successful (eSports in South Korea, we all like that one of our favorite games is on TV somewhere in the world) but I definitely don't want it to be this thing where people bash other people for playing other games. I remember reading comments where go away from SC2 to easier games like Guild Wars 2, Diablo, etc. I see comments like that all the time and it really puts me off from the concept of eSports.
Finally, I'm not sure how well eSports really contributes to a healthy person in general. Lots of people proudly defend their game as being really complex and how they're good at it, or whatever but at the same time bash other games or put down other people for doing other activities.
The question is, how much does said "playing eSports" really contribute to a person's health? Competitive mind set and striving to better oneself can be healthy but at times it clearly degenerates into random hate or bitterness or whatever, especially in regard to online video games (cause it's the internet of course).
You can be competitive outside of online video games easily - in regular sports, physical activity not only helps you physically but mentally as well... it's been shown working out and exercise helps you sleep, helps you in several ways... Competitive online video games on the other hand, do they do all that? Maybe they help in certain cases for certain people, and maybe they're better than playing <insert random mindless pay2play facebook> game here, but I don't think they're that much of a superior medium that it should lead to elitism or bashing of other people's activities (which I see a lot around here).
tl;dr - Tetris or Bejeweled > Starcraft. The gist of this post is I'm against negativity and bashing other people's activities or enjoyment. (I'm sure most people have had experience with some negative or bashful person maybe IRL or maybe through some other form. I'm sure this may be obvious but negativity is bad and can lead to more negativity which is totally ruining eSports guys! Because negativity = bad. Yes, I'm being captain obvious but seriously though, I do see a lot of bashing of games. LoL being a good example.)
(Okay one final point - I say a game can be competitive or an "eSport" if the top players of a game can be consistently top. See a game like the Pokemon card game? Casual uncompetitive game? Well, there have been several consistently top players in Pokemon. Same in Magic: The Gathering, and other games. I don't play LoL but if the top teams are consistently at the top... then it's an eSport and/or a viable competitive game. The point I'm making it as long as there is something from skill that can differentiate players from one another, and it can be consistently proven, then it's an eSport material game.)
Edit - I spoilered some stuff to take less page space. Also as I was rereading my last comments, I noticed that I started to lean onto sports being a sport because it can contribute to a person's health (or abilities that help them in situations in life, lift weighting for example). Aside from dangerous sports or maybe abusing performance enhancing drugs or something, I guess in a way I consider sports any sort of competition that promotes a healthier person.... that and I'm being bias towards the rising elitism of which competitive online video game is better to play and game bashing in general (which I don't consider "healthy" in terms of social communication IMO >.>).
|
I used to use the term "competitive gaming" because I felt E-Sports was a very loaded word that had too much weight and expectations, especially people within the scene (this bothered me for like 2 years).
I started thinking about this basic three-level of E-Sports of competitive gaming & progamers to what E-Sports really entails (spectators, fans, marketing) to the EPA.
The EPA is beyond import and I feel its not considered often while also misconstrued (the often limping argument making X game or Y free-to-play to attract more people and thus convert more people into E-Sports).
When I explain to people what E-Sports is, I use the term with two emphasis:
1. People enjoy watching other people games better than they can play (similar to watching my sister beat a level I couldn't do as a kid or getting that high-score) and will attend a bar to see it (similar to watching sports at a bar)
2. These players are paid to play professionally (I cite BW salaries from way back to add some real credibility) and I dictate their work ethics + environment [team houses, etc.]
These two points help solidify the idea of E-Sports as something resembling what they know, but also that it is an emerging idea/niche scene.
|
On January 09 2013 14:15 Goldfish wrote:An interesting thing to note - On both IGN and Gamespot, any mention of eSports or StarCraft (in fact, negative comments on IGN's IPL SC2 youtube page is common) generate bashing of SC2. In contrast, Marvel Vs Capcom 3 (or fighting games in general) and Gamespot and/or their coverage of EVO or any fighting game tournament has not a single flame. I think the offending terms is "eSports". Evolution Championship Series (EVO) doesn't really advertise eSports (at least AFAIK, I haven't really followed EVO, I just looked on their pages and their videos and see no offending term), but advertise simply as a competitive video game tournament. As much as I like eSports, I feel that eSports in general has lead to some level of elitism and bashing other non "eSports" games. Which is why at times I am partly sort of with the anti-eSports crowd (the term itself, not the concept). But on the other hand, South Korea had something really special with Starcraft and describing as simply a video game tournament doesn't do it justice (we all remember the epic intros, the huge crowds, etc). So I definitely agree with TDL's point on why call it eSports even when it's not really a "sport". _______________ Now onto my opinion why I am against calling eSports a real sport. It might sound silly but these are just my thoughts (maybe silly but maybe others may agree). I remember reading an article about how Bejeweled could help contribute to brain function or something (comparing to to similar Tetris effects on the brain) but there was a comment bashing Bejeweled as a mindless luck based game that only involves recognizing patterns. The comment replied and said Starcraft would be a better game (or Tetris Attack, Tetris attack is like bejeweled in the sense that you try to match 3 matching pieces but it's less luck based since you can move pieces to try to get them to the designated location). Tetris Attack I agree but I'm honestly not so sure about SC. The thing is, (in the case of Bejeweled, even if luck based) the fact that it is simple and involves recognizing patterns (which is also simple) and low stress play (SC can be a stressful game to play at times) is potential why it may have positive effects on mental health. I've played StarJeweled (close enough to Bejeweled I'd say), I've played a ton of Tetris, and I've played a ton of SC2. Out of the three, I felt that Tetris and StarJeweled were both simple and relaxing games. They weren't "distracting" to me at all. SC2 on the other hand, I remember thinking about various strategies and things constantly at times (outside of the game). Sometimes I was obsessed with how to win or deal with certain strategies. At times I was overly obsessive with it where it might distract me from other things (like doing a test or something). I don't know if there are any studies on a game like Starcraft compared to a game like Tetris (does the simpler game promote better brain function than the non-simple game)? My argument against SC (not scientiific but just a person experience) is that SC is less of a relaxing and a more stressful game. Plus, the variety in the game can lead to an excessive obsession. Tetris on the other hand is really simple and it's not really obsessive prone game (I definitely had fun playing it on breaks at times in college but I never obsessed over the game). Despite how SC is so much more sophisticated, my experience with Tetris (and Starjeweled) was better than playing SC in terms of mental state is better. Also in games like SC2, I'd like to emphasize how stress can really be a bad thing on your mental state. It feels bad when going on a losing streak or getting cheesed? If you lose 5 games in a row or got cheesed and lost in a bad way, how does it affect your mental state after? Usually it's bad. You try to make it up by maybe playing more or something. Tetris and Bejeweled, the single player versions of course, don't have these issues really.) The point of all this is despite the person bashing Bejeweled for being "an EZ game to play" or "luck based", Bejeweled probably contributes to a better and positive overall mental health than Starcraft (the person's example of a better game for that job because it's more complex). An important thing to note is that while SC is more complex, it's primary a competitive player vs player game (which again, leads to the scenario of feeling bad or trying to make things up when you lose 5 times in a row, etc). Also I remember reading that someone's wife (they were introducing to the game or something) threw their keyboard in frustration after being cannon rushed (an unfortunate way to introduce anyone to the game of Starcraft >.>). Simple (but still requires attention and reaction) games like Tetris or Bejeweled probably do a better job of leading to a healthy mental stat than Starcraft. Again here is Wikipedia (citing sources of course) Tetris effects on the brain section. Tetris has also shown to help deal with mentally traumatic events (reducing flashbacks, etc). ________________ So what am I going on and on about Starcraft vs Tetris vs Bejeweled? (And how the games affect a person's mental state?) I've always viewed video games as for relaxing and casual fun (or as a hobby in case of more serious investment into said game) as a #1 thing. The concept of eSports has generally led to lots of people being a bit negative towards others' activities, a sort of elitism. Compared to regular sports or anything else, I honestly find the eSports community at times to be the least enjoyable community to be in. Don't get me wrong though, I like TL and have (and still have) great times being a part of the community (aside from the excessive non-constructive caster bashing that may happen frequently on the LR threads). I said this before but I am into and still into SC2 because of the positive atmosphere and experience. Artosis and Tasteless making Nestea jokes, people making memes, jokes in general about the game or SC2, etc. I definitely want competitive video gaming to be successful (eSports in South Korea, we all like that one of our favorite games is on TV somewhere in the world) but I definitely don't want it to be this thing where people bash other people for playing other games. I remember reading comments where go away from SC2 to easier games like Guild Wars 2, Diablo, etc. I see comments like that all the time and it really puts me off from the concept of eSports. Finally, I'm not sure how well eSports really contributes to a healthy person in general. Lots of people proudly defend their game as being really complex and how they're good at it, or whatever but at the same time bash other games or put down other people for doing other activities. The question is, how much does said "playing eSports" really contribute to a person's health? Competitive mind set and striving to better oneself can be healthy but at times it clearly degenerates into random hate or bitterness or whatever, especially in regard to online video games (cause it's the internet of course).
You can be competitive outside of online video games easily - in regular sports, physical activity not only helps you physically but mentally as well... it's been shown working out and exercise helps you sleep, helps you in several ways... Competitive online video games on the other hand, do they do all that? Maybe they help in certain cases for certain people, and maybe they're better than playing <insert random mindless pay2play facebook> game here, but I don't think they're that much of a superior medium that it should lead to elitism or bashing of other people's activities (which I see a lot around here).tl;dr - Tetris or Bejeweled > Starcraft. The gist of this post is I'm against negativity and bashing other people's activities or enjoyment. (I'm sure most people have had experience with some negative or bashful person maybe IRL or maybe through some other form. I'm sure this may be obvious but negativity is bad and can lead to more negativity which is totally ruining eSports guys! Because negativity = bad. Yes, I'm being captain obvious but seriously though, I do see a lot of bashing of games. LoL being a good example.) (Okay one final point - I say a game can be competitive or an "eSport" if the top players of a game can be consistently top. See a game like the Pokemon card game? Casual uncompetitive game? Well, there have been several consistently top players in Pokemon. Same in Magic: The Gathering, and other games. I don't play LoL but if the top teams are consistently at the top... then it's an eSport and/or a viable competitive game. The point I'm making it as long as there is something from skill that can differentiate players from one another, and it can be consistently proven, then it's an eSport material game.)
This makes a lot of sense, especially the stress part. I wrestle and run both track and cross country (high school varsity, somewhere in the above average but not amazing category) but when I lose i don't really feel angry afterward. On the other hand, a losing streak in SC2 makes me angry afterward, even though the game itself meant a lot less, since no team was depending on me, and I don't put in hours to be better in SC2. I really don't know why this is, but SC2 affects me mentally much more than traditional sports.
|
Very interesting as usual but the following is something I cannot totally agree with
"Because the game changes. The core game mechanics improve, change, and are biased towards one side or another. In StarCraft, you have three asymmetrical races that have their pros and cons, in ARTS games such as Dota, you have a multitude of heros that interact with one another differently. For FPS games, a variety of guns also means countless approaches towards taking down your opponent. These varied factors help keep the game fresh, new and entertaining. It displays unlimited possibilities that surpass that of sports on a basic ruled level.
Because video-game(s) can change so much, be improved and become visually stunning, the possibilities to innovate it makes it better than mainstream sports. The way these games are accessed and the tools used to better spectate each match and provide insightful information for viewers and commentators alike surpass that of mainstream sports."
Because
1) Every sport changes over time the mechanics and the dynamic and strategies all evolve and change. All forms of football (American football, Rugby League, Rugby Union and Soccer) all evolved out of village ball games played in England in the 18th and 19th centuries. They are all different sports but you can see the underlining basics in all of them. With these sports we are talking about change, evolution and consolidation over hundreds of years.
2) Even within each sport rules change and regulation change and skill level increase and strategy changes over time. Equipment, training techniques etc all undergo change. People recruit players and coaches based on the current “meta game” in all of these sports. New technology help officiating. Each of these sport have very different rules than they had 30 years ago.
3) All of these sports have aspects that “.. are biased towards one side or another.” Ranging from a simple home ground advantage to teams developing new play styles and strategies that use and abuse the current rules to their advantage.
4) “ARTS games such as Dota, you have a multitude of heros that interact with one another differently.” In every sport you have a multitude of players with abilities and strengths and weakness and they interact with their team mates and their opponents in a multitude of ways.
5) “These varied factors help keep the game fresh, new and entertaining. It displays unlimited possibilities that surpass that of sports on a basic ruled level.” This happens in mainstream sports. But in mainstream sports these tend to evolve into off shoot sports. Arena football (US), Touch footy (Australia\UK\NZ), Oz Tag (Aus/NZ/UK), 5 aside soccer, indoor soccer, beach soccer to name just a few. I’ll even add in computer varieties like FIFA. The games themselves are kept fresh by new skills new playing styles and new approaches to any new rule changes that may occur.
6) Diversity abounds in mainstream sports – different playing conditions, temperature, snow, heat, humidity, playing surfaces, stadiums, wind factors, time of day – all of these can add visuals that make the spectacle a ascetically pleasing as any SC or DOTA has to offer. They also add a requirement for a different playing approach which may bias one team over another. In some cases they require a shift of focus to other skills.
7) “The way these games are accessed and the tools used to better spectate each match and provide insightful information for viewers and commentators alike surpass that of mainstream sports” – by this I assume the media and online viewing of E-sports. Well the same has been going on in main stream sports for decades. In fact I would argue mainstream sport is so far ahead of e sport it is ridiculous. There are a multitude of graphs, stats and information that can be displayed on broadcasts. Diagrams can be drawn on the field the plays and incidents replayed and highlighted. Live in game information like downs and distances (American football), Tackle Counts (Rugby league), red cards yellow cards (soccer) and game clock and times are all in you line of sight. These things are even possible at live grounds by been shown on giant TV screens.
i wanted to add more but tits grown in to quite a long post - I will however add more if required to reinforce the points above at a later date.
|
On January 09 2013 14:24 Walnuts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 14:15 Goldfish wrote:An interesting thing to note - On both IGN and Gamespot, any mention of eSports or StarCraft (in fact, negative comments on IGN's IPL SC2 youtube page is common) generate bashing of SC2. In contrast, Marvel Vs Capcom 3 (or fighting games in general) and Gamespot and/or their coverage of EVO or any fighting game tournament has not a single flame. I think the offending terms is "eSports". Evolution Championship Series (EVO) doesn't really advertise eSports (at least AFAIK, I haven't really followed EVO, I just looked on their pages and their videos and see no offending term), but advertise simply as a competitive video game tournament. As much as I like eSports, I feel that eSports in general has lead to some level of elitism and bashing other non "eSports" games. Which is why at times I am partly sort of with the anti-eSports crowd (the term itself, not the concept). But on the other hand, South Korea had something really special with Starcraft and describing as simply a video game tournament doesn't do it justice (we all remember the epic intros, the huge crowds, etc). So I definitely agree with TDL's point on why call it eSports even when it's not really a "sport". _______________ Now onto my opinion why I am against calling eSports a real sport. It might sound silly but these are just my thoughts (maybe silly but maybe others may agree). I remember reading an article about how Bejeweled could help contribute to brain function or something (comparing to to similar Tetris effects on the brain) but there was a comment bashing Bejeweled as a mindless luck based game that only involves recognizing patterns. The comment replied and said Starcraft would be a better game (or Tetris Attack, Tetris attack is like bejeweled in the sense that you try to match 3 matching pieces but it's less luck based since you can move pieces to try to get them to the designated location). Tetris Attack I agree but I'm honestly not so sure about SC. The thing is, (in the case of Bejeweled, even if luck based) the fact that it is simple and involves recognizing patterns (which is also simple) and low stress play (SC can be a stressful game to play at times) is potential why it may have positive effects on mental health. I've played StarJeweled (close enough to Bejeweled I'd say), I've played a ton of Tetris, and I've played a ton of SC2. Out of the three, I felt that Tetris and StarJeweled were both simple and relaxing games. They weren't "distracting" to me at all. SC2 on the other hand, I remember thinking about various strategies and things constantly at times (outside of the game). Sometimes I was obsessed with how to win or deal with certain strategies. At times I was overly obsessive with it where it might distract me from other things (like doing a test or something). I don't know if there are any studies on a game like Starcraft compared to a game like Tetris (does the simpler game promote better brain function than the non-simple game)? My argument against SC (not scientiific but just a person experience) is that SC is less of a relaxing and a more stressful game. Plus, the variety in the game can lead to an excessive obsession. Tetris on the other hand is really simple and it's not really obsessive prone game (I definitely had fun playing it on breaks at times in college but I never obsessed over the game). Despite how SC is so much more sophisticated, my experience with Tetris (and Starjeweled) was better than playing SC in terms of mental state is better. Also in games like SC2, I'd like to emphasize how stress can really be a bad thing on your mental state. It feels bad when going on a losing streak or getting cheesed? If you lose 5 games in a row or got cheesed and lost in a bad way, how does it affect your mental state after? Usually it's bad. You try to make it up by maybe playing more or something. Tetris and Bejeweled, the single player versions of course, don't have these issues really.) The point of all this is despite the person bashing Bejeweled for being "an EZ game to play" or "luck based", Bejeweled probably contributes to a better and positive overall mental health than Starcraft (the person's example of a better game for that job because it's more complex). An important thing to note is that while SC is more complex, it's primary a competitive player vs player game (which again, leads to the scenario of feeling bad or trying to make things up when you lose 5 times in a row, etc). Also I remember reading that someone's wife (they were introducing to the game or something) threw their keyboard in frustration after being cannon rushed (an unfortunate way to introduce anyone to the game of Starcraft >.>). Simple (but still requires attention and reaction) games like Tetris or Bejeweled probably do a better job of leading to a healthy mental stat than Starcraft. Again here is Wikipedia (citing sources of course) Tetris effects on the brain section. Tetris has also shown to help deal with mentally traumatic events (reducing flashbacks, etc). ________________ So what am I going on and on about Starcraft vs Tetris vs Bejeweled? (And how the games affect a person's mental state?) I've always viewed video games as for relaxing and casual fun (or as a hobby in case of more serious investment into said game) as a #1 thing. The concept of eSports has generally led to lots of people being a bit negative towards others' activities, a sort of elitism. Compared to regular sports or anything else, I honestly find the eSports community at times to be the least enjoyable community to be in. Don't get me wrong though, I like TL and have (and still have) great times being a part of the community (aside from the excessive non-constructive caster bashing that may happen frequently on the LR threads). I said this before but I am into and still into SC2 because of the positive atmosphere and experience. Artosis and Tasteless making Nestea jokes, people making memes, jokes in general about the game or SC2, etc. I definitely want competitive video gaming to be successful (eSports in South Korea, we all like that one of our favorite games is on TV somewhere in the world) but I definitely don't want it to be this thing where people bash other people for playing other games. I remember reading comments where go away from SC2 to easier games like Guild Wars 2, Diablo, etc. I see comments like that all the time and it really puts me off from the concept of eSports. Finally, I'm not sure how well eSports really contributes to a healthy person in general. Lots of people proudly defend their game as being really complex and how they're good at it, or whatever but at the same time bash other games or put down other people for doing other activities. The question is, how much does said "playing eSports" really contribute to a person's health? Competitive mind set and striving to better oneself can be healthy but at times it clearly degenerates into random hate or bitterness or whatever, especially in regard to online video games (cause it's the internet of course).
You can be competitive outside of online video games easily - in regular sports, physical activity not only helps you physically but mentally as well... it's been shown working out and exercise helps you sleep, helps you in several ways... Competitive online video games on the other hand, do they do all that? Maybe they help in certain cases for certain people, and maybe they're better than playing <insert random mindless pay2play facebook> game here, but I don't think they're that much of a superior medium that it should lead to elitism or bashing of other people's activities (which I see a lot around here).tl;dr - Tetris or Bejeweled > Starcraft. The gist of this post is I'm against negativity and bashing other people's activities or enjoyment. (I'm sure most people have had experience with some negative or bashful person maybe IRL or maybe through some other form. I'm sure this may be obvious but negativity is bad and can lead to more negativity which is totally ruining eSports guys! Because negativity = bad. Yes, I'm being captain obvious but seriously though, I do see a lot of bashing of games. LoL being a good example.) (Okay one final point - I say a game can be competitive or an "eSport" if the top players of a game can be consistently top. See a game like the Pokemon card game? Casual uncompetitive game? Well, there have been several consistently top players in Pokemon. Same in Magic: The Gathering, and other games. I don't play LoL but if the top teams are consistently at the top... then it's an eSport and/or a viable competitive game. The point I'm making it as long as there is something from skill that can differentiate players from one another, and it can be consistently proven, then it's an eSport material game.) This makes a lot of sense, especially the stress part. I wrestle and run both track and cross country (high school varsity, somewhere in the above average but not amazing category) but when I lose i don't really feel angry afterward. On the other hand, a losing streak in SC2 makes me angry afterward, even though the game itself meant a lot less, since no team was depending on me, and I don't put in hours to be better in SC2. I really don't know why this is, but SC2 affects me mentally much more than traditional sports.
Let me explain one thing on this matter, "Being Health",no matter mentally or physically is never a goal or achievement of most sports in competitive level.
Does anyone consider a sports require ppl with height over 2.00 meter health? Most of them can hardly live over 65, not to mention the serious heart problem in later age.
Or does anyone consider use head, instead of foot, to impact a ball at 150km/h speed mentally or physically health? Not to mention all the injury or even sudden death in a football game.
And a marathon or Ironman Triathlon is no where near a life style physically healthy.
And srsly, is there any physically or mentally health part about F1 or Nascar drivers? Dont get me wrong, i am a huge racing fan. But those died in racing accidents would tell you that racing is never about a better living style.
so to sum up, e-sports is just like any other sports, they demands sacrifice, both physically and mentally.
|
On January 09 2013 14:24 Walnuts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 14:15 Goldfish wrote:An interesting thing to note - On both IGN and Gamespot, any mention of eSports or StarCraft (in fact, negative comments on IGN's IPL SC2 youtube page is common) generate bashing of SC2. In contrast, Marvel Vs Capcom 3 (or fighting games in general) and Gamespot and/or their coverage of EVO or any fighting game tournament has not a single flame. I think the offending terms is "eSports". Evolution Championship Series (EVO) doesn't really advertise eSports (at least AFAIK, I haven't really followed EVO, I just looked on their pages and their videos and see no offending term), but advertise simply as a competitive video game tournament. As much as I like eSports, I feel that eSports in general has lead to some level of elitism and bashing other non "eSports" games. Which is why at times I am partly sort of with the anti-eSports crowd (the term itself, not the concept). But on the other hand, South Korea had something really special with Starcraft and describing as simply a video game tournament doesn't do it justice (we all remember the epic intros, the huge crowds, etc). So I definitely agree with TDL's point on why call it eSports even when it's not really a "sport". _______________ Now onto my opinion why I am against calling eSports a real sport. It might sound silly but these are just my thoughts (maybe silly but maybe others may agree). I remember reading an article about how Bejeweled could help contribute to brain function or something (comparing to to similar Tetris effects on the brain) but there was a comment bashing Bejeweled as a mindless luck based game that only involves recognizing patterns. The comment replied and said Starcraft would be a better game (or Tetris Attack, Tetris attack is like bejeweled in the sense that you try to match 3 matching pieces but it's less luck based since you can move pieces to try to get them to the designated location). Tetris Attack I agree but I'm honestly not so sure about SC. The thing is, (in the case of Bejeweled, even if luck based) the fact that it is simple and involves recognizing patterns (which is also simple) and low stress play (SC can be a stressful game to play at times) is potential why it may have positive effects on mental health. I've played StarJeweled (close enough to Bejeweled I'd say), I've played a ton of Tetris, and I've played a ton of SC2. Out of the three, I felt that Tetris and StarJeweled were both simple and relaxing games. They weren't "distracting" to me at all. SC2 on the other hand, I remember thinking about various strategies and things constantly at times (outside of the game). Sometimes I was obsessed with how to win or deal with certain strategies. At times I was overly obsessive with it where it might distract me from other things (like doing a test or something). I don't know if there are any studies on a game like Starcraft compared to a game like Tetris (does the simpler game promote better brain function than the non-simple game)? My argument against SC (not scientiific but just a person experience) is that SC is less of a relaxing and a more stressful game. Plus, the variety in the game can lead to an excessive obsession. Tetris on the other hand is really simple and it's not really obsessive prone game (I definitely had fun playing it on breaks at times in college but I never obsessed over the game). Despite how SC is so much more sophisticated, my experience with Tetris (and Starjeweled) was better than playing SC in terms of mental state is better. Also in games like SC2, I'd like to emphasize how stress can really be a bad thing on your mental state. It feels bad when going on a losing streak or getting cheesed? If you lose 5 games in a row or got cheesed and lost in a bad way, how does it affect your mental state after? Usually it's bad. You try to make it up by maybe playing more or something. Tetris and Bejeweled, the single player versions of course, don't have these issues really.) The point of all this is despite the person bashing Bejeweled for being "an EZ game to play" or "luck based", Bejeweled probably contributes to a better and positive overall mental health than Starcraft (the person's example of a better game for that job because it's more complex). An important thing to note is that while SC is more complex, it's primary a competitive player vs player game (which again, leads to the scenario of feeling bad or trying to make things up when you lose 5 times in a row, etc). Also I remember reading that someone's wife (they were introducing to the game or something) threw their keyboard in frustration after being cannon rushed (an unfortunate way to introduce anyone to the game of Starcraft >.>). Simple (but still requires attention and reaction) games like Tetris or Bejeweled probably do a better job of leading to a healthy mental stat than Starcraft. Again here is Wikipedia (citing sources of course) Tetris effects on the brain section. Tetris has also shown to help deal with mentally traumatic events (reducing flashbacks, etc). ________________ So what am I going on and on about Starcraft vs Tetris vs Bejeweled? (And how the games affect a person's mental state?) I've always viewed video games as for relaxing and casual fun (or as a hobby in case of more serious investment into said game) as a #1 thing. The concept of eSports has generally led to lots of people being a bit negative towards others' activities, a sort of elitism. Compared to regular sports or anything else, I honestly find the eSports community at times to be the least enjoyable community to be in. Don't get me wrong though, I like TL and have (and still have) great times being a part of the community (aside from the excessive non-constructive caster bashing that may happen frequently on the LR threads). I said this before but I am into and still into SC2 because of the positive atmosphere and experience. Artosis and Tasteless making Nestea jokes, people making memes, jokes in general about the game or SC2, etc. I definitely want competitive video gaming to be successful (eSports in South Korea, we all like that one of our favorite games is on TV somewhere in the world) but I definitely don't want it to be this thing where people bash other people for playing other games. I remember reading comments where go away from SC2 to easier games like Guild Wars 2, Diablo, etc. I see comments like that all the time and it really puts me off from the concept of eSports. Finally, I'm not sure how well eSports really contributes to a healthy person in general. Lots of people proudly defend their game as being really complex and how they're good at it, or whatever but at the same time bash other games or put down other people for doing other activities. The question is, how much does said "playing eSports" really contribute to a person's health? Competitive mind set and striving to better oneself can be healthy but at times it clearly degenerates into random hate or bitterness or whatever, especially in regard to online video games (cause it's the internet of course).
You can be competitive outside of online video games easily - in regular sports, physical activity not only helps you physically but mentally as well... it's been shown working out and exercise helps you sleep, helps you in several ways... Competitive online video games on the other hand, do they do all that? Maybe they help in certain cases for certain people, and maybe they're better than playing <insert random mindless pay2play facebook> game here, but I don't think they're that much of a superior medium that it should lead to elitism or bashing of other people's activities (which I see a lot around here).tl;dr - Tetris or Bejeweled > Starcraft. The gist of this post is I'm against negativity and bashing other people's activities or enjoyment. (I'm sure most people have had experience with some negative or bashful person maybe IRL or maybe through some other form. I'm sure this may be obvious but negativity is bad and can lead to more negativity which is totally ruining eSports guys! Because negativity = bad. Yes, I'm being captain obvious but seriously though, I do see a lot of bashing of games. LoL being a good example.) (Okay one final point - I say a game can be competitive or an "eSport" if the top players of a game can be consistently top. See a game like the Pokemon card game? Casual uncompetitive game? Well, there have been several consistently top players in Pokemon. Same in Magic: The Gathering, and other games. I don't play LoL but if the top teams are consistently at the top... then it's an eSport and/or a viable competitive game. The point I'm making it as long as there is something from skill that can differentiate players from one another, and it can be consistently proven, then it's an eSport material game.) This makes a lot of sense, especially the stress part. I wrestle and run both track and cross country (high school varsity, somewhere in the above average but not amazing category) but when I lose i don't really feel angry afterward. On the other hand, a losing streak in SC2 makes me angry afterward, even though the game itself meant a lot less, since no team was depending on me, and I don't put in hours to be better in SC2. I really don't know why this is, but SC2 affects me mentally much more than traditional sports.
Thanks for positive reply  .
Anyway, I edited my post a bit (mainly just spoilered it to not be a huge wall of text) and just kept the essentials.
I didn't put this in my original post but overall, I think the best way to consider whether something is a "sport" or not is if it is something that improves someone's health amidst competition.
(Yes, there are dangerous sports. Yes, some people abuse performance enhancement drugs that may negativity effect them overall. Yes, there is drama in competitive sports that may ruin people's life, etc. Still, most common sports have some form of physical activity that helps boost one's physical and mental health.)
Not to turn this into a health thing but I now feel the most important thing of sports (from an overall perspective on society as a whole) is that it's usually competition but it's competition that promotes both physical and mental health.
On the other hand, things like competitive video games can be sort of a grey area in this department.
As for "Sports" and it's definition, wikipedia has this to say about sports:
"Sport (or, primarily in North America, sports) is all forms of competitive physical activity which, through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical ability "and" provide entertainment to participants."
(I added the quotes on "and".)
Also, yes Wikipedia is a wiki (though they do cite where they took the definition from and it's similar to what can be considered Olympics material) but IMO that's a good and agreeable definition of sports. In terms of eSports though, it is definitely entertainment worthy but it isn't always health improving.
On January 09 2013 14:40 Baroninthetree wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 14:24 Walnuts wrote:On January 09 2013 14:15 Goldfish wrote:An interesting thing to note - On both IGN and Gamespot, any mention of eSports or StarCraft (in fact, negative comments on IGN's IPL SC2 youtube page is common) generate bashing of SC2. In contrast, Marvel Vs Capcom 3 (or fighting games in general) and Gamespot and/or their coverage of EVO or any fighting game tournament has not a single flame. I think the offending terms is "eSports". Evolution Championship Series (EVO) doesn't really advertise eSports (at least AFAIK, I haven't really followed EVO, I just looked on their pages and their videos and see no offending term), but advertise simply as a competitive video game tournament. As much as I like eSports, I feel that eSports in general has lead to some level of elitism and bashing other non "eSports" games. Which is why at times I am partly sort of with the anti-eSports crowd (the term itself, not the concept). But on the other hand, South Korea had something really special with Starcraft and describing as simply a video game tournament doesn't do it justice (we all remember the epic intros, the huge crowds, etc). So I definitely agree with TDL's point on why call it eSports even when it's not really a "sport". _______________ Now onto my opinion why I am against calling eSports a real sport. It might sound silly but these are just my thoughts (maybe silly but maybe others may agree). I remember reading an article about how Bejeweled could help contribute to brain function or something (comparing to to similar Tetris effects on the brain) but there was a comment bashing Bejeweled as a mindless luck based game that only involves recognizing patterns. The comment replied and said Starcraft would be a better game (or Tetris Attack, Tetris attack is like bejeweled in the sense that you try to match 3 matching pieces but it's less luck based since you can move pieces to try to get them to the designated location). Tetris Attack I agree but I'm honestly not so sure about SC. The thing is, (in the case of Bejeweled, even if luck based) the fact that it is simple and involves recognizing patterns (which is also simple) and low stress play (SC can be a stressful game to play at times) is potential why it may have positive effects on mental health. I've played StarJeweled (close enough to Bejeweled I'd say), I've played a ton of Tetris, and I've played a ton of SC2. Out of the three, I felt that Tetris and StarJeweled were both simple and relaxing games. They weren't "distracting" to me at all. SC2 on the other hand, I remember thinking about various strategies and things constantly at times (outside of the game). Sometimes I was obsessed with how to win or deal with certain strategies. At times I was overly obsessive with it where it might distract me from other things (like doing a test or something). I don't know if there are any studies on a game like Starcraft compared to a game like Tetris (does the simpler game promote better brain function than the non-simple game)? My argument against SC (not scientiific but just a person experience) is that SC is less of a relaxing and a more stressful game. Plus, the variety in the game can lead to an excessive obsession. Tetris on the other hand is really simple and it's not really obsessive prone game (I definitely had fun playing it on breaks at times in college but I never obsessed over the game). Despite how SC is so much more sophisticated, my experience with Tetris (and Starjeweled) was better than playing SC in terms of mental state is better. Also in games like SC2, I'd like to emphasize how stress can really be a bad thing on your mental state. It feels bad when going on a losing streak or getting cheesed? If you lose 5 games in a row or got cheesed and lost in a bad way, how does it affect your mental state after? Usually it's bad. You try to make it up by maybe playing more or something. Tetris and Bejeweled, the single player versions of course, don't have these issues really.) The point of all this is despite the person bashing Bejeweled for being "an EZ game to play" or "luck based", Bejeweled probably contributes to a better and positive overall mental health than Starcraft (the person's example of a better game for that job because it's more complex). An important thing to note is that while SC is more complex, it's primary a competitive player vs player game (which again, leads to the scenario of feeling bad or trying to make things up when you lose 5 times in a row, etc). Also I remember reading that someone's wife (they were introducing to the game or something) threw their keyboard in frustration after being cannon rushed (an unfortunate way to introduce anyone to the game of Starcraft >.>). Simple (but still requires attention and reaction) games like Tetris or Bejeweled probably do a better job of leading to a healthy mental stat than Starcraft. Again here is Wikipedia (citing sources of course) Tetris effects on the brain section. Tetris has also shown to help deal with mentally traumatic events (reducing flashbacks, etc). ________________ So what am I going on and on about Starcraft vs Tetris vs Bejeweled? (And how the games affect a person's mental state?) I've always viewed video games as for relaxing and casual fun (or as a hobby in case of more serious investment into said game) as a #1 thing. The concept of eSports has generally led to lots of people being a bit negative towards others' activities, a sort of elitism. Compared to regular sports or anything else, I honestly find the eSports community at times to be the least enjoyable community to be in. Don't get me wrong though, I like TL and have (and still have) great times being a part of the community (aside from the excessive non-constructive caster bashing that may happen frequently on the LR threads). I said this before but I am into and still into SC2 because of the positive atmosphere and experience. Artosis and Tasteless making Nestea jokes, people making memes, jokes in general about the game or SC2, etc. I definitely want competitive video gaming to be successful (eSports in South Korea, we all like that one of our favorite games is on TV somewhere in the world) but I definitely don't want it to be this thing where people bash other people for playing other games. I remember reading comments where go away from SC2 to easier games like Guild Wars 2, Diablo, etc. I see comments like that all the time and it really puts me off from the concept of eSports. Finally, I'm not sure how well eSports really contributes to a healthy person in general. Lots of people proudly defend their game as being really complex and how they're good at it, or whatever but at the same time bash other games or put down other people for doing other activities. The question is, how much does said "playing eSports" really contribute to a person's health? Competitive mind set and striving to better oneself can be healthy but at times it clearly degenerates into random hate or bitterness or whatever, especially in regard to online video games (cause it's the internet of course).
You can be competitive outside of online video games easily - in regular sports, physical activity not only helps you physically but mentally as well... it's been shown working out and exercise helps you sleep, helps you in several ways... Competitive online video games on the other hand, do they do all that? Maybe they help in certain cases for certain people, and maybe they're better than playing <insert random mindless pay2play facebook> game here, but I don't think they're that much of a superior medium that it should lead to elitism or bashing of other people's activities (which I see a lot around here).tl;dr - Tetris or Bejeweled > Starcraft. The gist of this post is I'm against negativity and bashing other people's activities or enjoyment. (I'm sure most people have had experience with some negative or bashful person maybe IRL or maybe through some other form. I'm sure this may be obvious but negativity is bad and can lead to more negativity which is totally ruining eSports guys! Because negativity = bad. Yes, I'm being captain obvious but seriously though, I do see a lot of bashing of games. LoL being a good example.) (Okay one final point - I say a game can be competitive or an "eSport" if the top players of a game can be consistently top. See a game like the Pokemon card game? Casual uncompetitive game? Well, there have been several consistently top players in Pokemon. Same in Magic: The Gathering, and other games. I don't play LoL but if the top teams are consistently at the top... then it's an eSport and/or a viable competitive game. The point I'm making it as long as there is something from skill that can differentiate players from one another, and it can be consistently proven, then it's an eSport material game.) This makes a lot of sense, especially the stress part. I wrestle and run both track and cross country (high school varsity, somewhere in the above average but not amazing category) but when I lose i don't really feel angry afterward. On the other hand, a losing streak in SC2 makes me angry afterward, even though the game itself meant a lot less, since no team was depending on me, and I don't put in hours to be better in SC2. I really don't know why this is, but SC2 affects me mentally much more than traditional sports. Let me explain one thing on this matter, "Being Health",no matter mentally or physically is never a goal or achievement of most sports in competitive level. Does anyone consider a sports require ppl with height over 2.00 meter health? Most of them can hardly live over 65, not to mention the serious heart problem in later age. Or does anyone consider use head, instead of foot, to impact a ball at 150km/h speed mentally or physically health? Not to mention all the injury or even sudden death in a football game. And a marathon or Ironman Triathlon is no where near a life style physically healthy. And srsly, is there any physically or mentally health part about F1 or Nascar drivers? Dont get me wrong, i am a huge racing fan. But those died in racing accidents would tell you that racing is never about a better living style. so to sum up, e-sports is just like any other sports, they demands sacrifice, both physically and mentally.
Definitely good counterpoints. You're definitely right in the case of most sports nowadays is not about health (if it's about health, go to the gym). It's usually about entertainment and being able to have a career doing what you like doing. In sports that aren't too dangerous, health is a bonus.
At this point, I'm sort of just leaning back on my own views (which is definitely not right but what I'd like sports to be rather than what it is).
I may edit something in once I find a good way to try to differentiate sports vs eSports more.
|
Baroninthetree what are you trying to get at? Most cannot barely make it to 65? Are you talking about professional wrestlers or wrestle, wrestlers? lmao
There's a pretty big difference between amateur wrestling and sports entertainers. The other guy was talking about amateur wrestling as a sport. Not to be confused with the showbiz one. I have no idea what you're trying to say about marathon runners, triathletes and race car drivers. They train hard and it is very much apart of their lifestyle. There is a mental and physical component to all of them.
|
On January 09 2013 05:50 lolmlg wrote:
I'm going to bypass all the really obvious reasons why e-sports aren't sports and hit on the one that nobody seems to want to admit.
Sports are not subject to cheese. In a sport there are only strategies. If a strategy could be thought of as unsportsmanlike, it is simply forbidden by the rules. All you have left at that point is a competition based on skill. But in a game like SC2, there are many scenarios where one player can be thought of as immediately at a disadvantage for reasons ultimately unrelated to their skill or preparation. "Juking your opponent with slick meta-mindgames" might be an impressive sounding euphemism for claiming a cheap win at any cost, but it doesn't change the essential nature of the act.
Not that the offending player is to blame for that act. He's just playing the game. But it precludes the game from being a sport. No longer a raw contest of skill, the exercise becomes a guessing game, regardless of how educated those guesses might be.
Think of it this way. In American Football, there is an emphasis on strategy, of trying to predict the moves of the opposite team and acting accordingly. That's fine. But have you seen the video of the team that suddenly stopped playing right after kickoff, walked around slowly acting confused, and then suddenly ran past their opponents into the end zone for some cheap and undeserved points? That's a cheese. And it simply doesn't have a place in any sport where something is on the line.
Every sport has tricks or something in it. Cheese has nothing to do with why something is or is not a sport.
Oh and I think Sc2 has as many aspects of a sport as some other things out there which are counted 
|
You are in some roundabout way trying to elevate eSports to something that is unique when compared to traditional sports, not as something beneath. It was a good attempt, but I feel like nothing knew has been stated here. But yeah, as was pointed out, you really dropped the ball on the whole "eSports is constantly changing" alleged difference. Sports pun.
This relentless need to identify, and label, and explore... What's there to understand? Some people just enjoy playing video games competitively. It doesn't need to be something more. It is what it is. The fixation on the state of the scene, and the future of ESPORTS is one of the many things wrong with ESPORTS itself. Ultimately the wrong people are too interested. They want to know how much money they can make off of hobbyists.
|
i guess should move to blog?
|
On January 09 2013 15:22 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
But yeah, as was pointed out, you really dropped the ball on the whole "eSports is constantly changing" alleged difference. Sports pun.
I've already spoke about the changing dynamics in MMA because Torte brought it up. I probably should have expanded on this idea because it applies to every sport. Whether they're direct or indirect.
|
While i personally dont like the terms "eSports" and "cyberathletes" and prefer progaming/progamers - as long as things like curling are "olympic sports", computer games have every right to say competitive gaming is a sport too.
|
Torte, I fucking love you. Please for the love of nestea never EVER stop producing stuff for me to read.
|
Well, I got a follow up to my original post. I'm glad so far people are taking the "it's healthy argument" okay.
I thought about my original post and I think the problem with the term "eSports" is that "eSports" generally applies exclusively to the highest level of play.
In regular sports, there are two different levels of play. Professional level where it's more about entertainment involving some form of physical competition, and the casual level where the focus is about having fun and exercise. The latter (casual play for exercise) has a real positive connotation (well not sure about other areas but in the US, everyone views playing sports positively).
Generally, people think of both when they hear "sports".
When you say "hey I play sports" to some random person on the street, they think "good for you" (referring to exercise is good for you, etc).
When you instead say "hey I play eSports" to some random person, they will probably question why you call video games a sport mainly because most don't have as much as a positive connotation with playing video games compared to playing sports.
So, it's a matter of how people view the term sports and how sports has this connotation with "good for you" while video games aren't always good for you. It's more how to advertise it, and how do random people think or hear when they hear the term "eSport".
eSports is appropriate for high levels of play IMO. It's similar to regular sports in that people are making a career playing a game competitively (in this case, a video game). Regular sports, it's mostly about the entertainment via competitive play. In cases where it's healthy, that's mostly a bonus rather than the focus of "professional sports".
In contrast to high level of play, low level of play (casual play) of sports is also a physical exercise (which while physical, can also improve a person's healthy mentally as well, which includes being able to sleep better and being able to think more clearly).
Lower level play of eSports is "just playing a video game" (playing a video game's health benefits vary from game to game and have not really been studied all that much).
Video games (even Starcraft), compared to regular Sports do not have as much of as a health benefit (take note I'm saying this broadly - physical exercise has shown to not only be good for physical health but mental health as well).
Starcraft is a hard game and you do have to think to play it but there aren't really that many document studies or anything involving games and their effects on the health.
There have been studies on more "relaxing" games like Tetris but Starcraft is more of a stressful game.
Not only that, you can become obsessed with things like how you lose, etc while it's almost non-existent in more casual games like Tetris or Bejeweled (in Bejeweled cases, there was an article about it that said it had similar benefits as Tetris; despite them being two different games, they're similar in the sense that both are simple to play but still involve some sort of beneficial brain activity to play).
So at least until it's been shown that playing a game like SC is really beneficial to a person's health (comparable to sports or maybe even Tetris since it's been studied), there will probably be opposition to the labeling of high level video game play as "eSports".
tl;dr - Regular "sports" already has this connotation where (at least in the casual level), it has a positive meaning. Again - When you say "I play sports", people can understand that and say good for you (people view sports not only as playing a game but exercising too). When you say, "I play eSports", I can see people being puzzled and a bit put off since a lot of people regard playing sports as a beneficial activity while playing video games isn't always the case (it really varies on the game of course).
So in high level professional play, calling video games in eSports is somewhat okay IMO (I mean, it's really similar in that in both cases, it's about people providing entertainment to viewers from high level competitive play of a game). The only problem is that regular sports have two meanings (when people hear "sports"): professional play and casual play (people view playing sports casually as "good for you", while the same can't be said for random video games).
|
On January 09 2013 16:07 rename wrote:
While i personally dont like the terms "eSports" and "cyberathletes" and prefer progaming/progamers - as long as things like curling are "olympic sports", computer games have every right to say competitive gaming is a sport too.
I'm going to nitpick here. When every figure mentions the Olympics they call it the Olympic Games. Look at every speech/address and you'll know this to be true. There's a very thin line here and there's a good reason as to why they use Games instead of sport because it applies to practically everything. Let's have a game of fill-in-the-blank and it all works!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
