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On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote:My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_in_sportsWith that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions. I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business. It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored. Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish.
Very well-worded post without offending anyone. Very good on that matter, have seen tons of other posts. Here's my finale take on it, as I already hat that discussion:
I consider Scarlett what she is now, a female. I do that due to respect towards her and her feelings. In the discussion about performance in sports its about ruling and I feel sorry to say so, but in any other competetive (physical) sports (Olympics for example) she would not be considered a female-athlete.
So in that matter, I really feel that we should think over what some people wrote, because even though she feels like a woman from when she can remember up to now, biologically born she's a male person. In an ideal world we should not have a difference in sports like ours (eSports) between men and women, but as it is, we have. I think its disrespectful to any 'REAL FEMALE' (biologically female) to have a male-born transgender, even though acceptable, taking away their results.
3 options in my opinion in eSports:
1) Don't judge based on gender
2) Judge based on gender, but then Scarlett clearly would need to list her achievements under the male aspect and also compete in mixed or male tournaments
3) Rate her as female, but thats ignoring that simple fact that she was born a man.
No hard feelings, just thought I'd write that out.
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How did Eve thread turn into transgender debate?
But yeah congrats to her hope she shows some results to shut people up!
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On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_in_sportsWith that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions. I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business. It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored.
Everything you said up to here is fine except the bolded words should be "sex" not "gender". Sex refers to physical differences (which is what you are describing for the most part).
On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote:
Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish.
This is false. IF that image is legitimate, then Eve and her friend purposefully used incorrect gender pronouns, which is ignorant and childish even if not malicious in intent.
@ the post in its entirety:
The only reason people get upset when you point out legitimate potential differences between trans-females and cis-females is that you're providing some legitimacy (even if a very small amount) to the masses that discriminate against transgenders. It's basically like throwing fish food into a pool of idiot fish; you're inadvertently helping them sustain their (mostly) irrational beliefs.
I'm not saying that I feel that way persay, but that is why people will jump down your throat even if you bring up a potentially legitimate difference - because you're doing something that is just about the last thing the transgender community needs.
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Good luck to Eve, i think its cool that azubu is getting more players. transgender discussion is pointless, a gamer is a gamer is a gamer.
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I really hope she can dominate the scene now, like how Scarlett does nowadays :D
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interested to see what happens
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On December 20 2012 19:48 dcemuser wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_in_sportsWith that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions. I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business. It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored. Everything you said up to here is fine except the bolded words should be "sex" not "gender". Sex refers to physical differences (which is what you are describing for the most part). On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote:
Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish. This is false. IF that image is legitimate, then Eve and her friend purposefully used incorrect gender pronouns, which is ignorant and childish even if not malicious in intent. @ the post in its entirety: The only reason people get upset when you point out legitimate potential differences between trans-females and cis-females is that you're providing some legitimacy (even if a very small amount) to the masses that discriminate against transgenders. It's basically like throwing fish food into a pool of idiot fish; you're inadvertently helping them sustain their (mostly) irrational beliefs. I'm not saying that I feel that way persay, but that is why people will jump down your throat even if you bring up a potentially legitimate difference - because you're doing something that is just about the last thing the transgender community needs.
This discussion is one that has only risen to significance in the last decade or so in a layperson sense. When you brought it to my attention, I fully understood my misuse of the words 'gender' and 'sex,' but, before you did so, I didn't even notice it despite being careful about how I worded my post.
The reality is I was raised and brought up in a society and era where gender was sex and changing your habits and perception is not something that is easy. Of the languages I know, I'm most proficient in English and I still make such mistakes. Do you really think Eve actually realizes what she is saying in its entirety? I suspect that if you explained the difference between gender and sex, despite the societal traditionalism of South Korea, I think Eve would be a little more aware. So that's why I say it's unfair to say she's childish. Ignorant, probably, but I think childish is a bit harsh based on what we know.
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gogo !!!
Esport need more woman to participate!!!
gratz
PS: It actually was a girl who told me to test a game called starcraft broodwar lol
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On December 20 2012 19:48 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_in_sportsWith that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions. I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business. It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored. Everything you said up to here is fine except the bolded words should be "sex" not "gender". Sex refers to physical differences (which is what you are describing for the most part). Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote:
Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish. This is false. IF that image is legitimate, then Eve and her friend purposefully used incorrect gender pronouns, which is ignorant and childish even if not malicious in intent. @ the post in its entirety: The only reason people get upset when you point out legitimate potential differences between trans-females and cis-females is that you're providing some legitimacy (even if a very small amount) to the masses that discriminate against transgenders. It's basically like throwing fish food into a pool of idiot fish; you're inadvertently helping them sustain their (mostly) irrational beliefs. I'm not saying that I feel that way persay, but that is why people will jump down your throat even if you bring up a potentially legitimate difference - because you're doing something that is just about the last thing the transgender community needs.
You kinda have to aware of the Asian culture. Asian people are more likely to be homophobia than European or even American. Not in the sense of absolute hate but more in the sense that does not accept it as a normal thing.
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On December 20 2012 12:21 Fission wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 12:12 Zaqwe wrote:On December 20 2012 11:14 Uncreative_Troll wrote:I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/FloFlo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament. Not quite what I was hoping for, no offense to incontrol. Technicalities being what they are, I am proven wrong. Perhaps Eve could make a splash by being the first female to win a broadcast game (I assume flo vs incontrol wouldn't have been broadcast). On December 20 2012 11:23 Mortal wrote:On December 20 2012 10:59 Zaqwe wrote:On December 20 2012 10:52 decado90 wrote:On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote:
Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though. She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive. If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2. Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh. I thought it was cute. But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive. On December 20 2012 10:54 Fission wrote:On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote:
Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though. She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive. If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2. Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first. You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male). I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that. The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro). Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh. I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word. Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female. Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team. Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards. Take your transphobia and ignorance elsewhere, please.
Edit: I'm not the one who wrote the original post and my opinion is not the same as his, do not misunderstand.
Edit2: after reading most of his posts, I wouldn't have used his words but it looks like our opinions are basically close.
I think that one is free to consider Scarlett as a male or a female, as she is transgender. But you cannot say she is not a biologically male transgender. Some are asian, some are koreans, some are french, some are americans, some are men, some are women, it's always cool to be the best of his genre. Supporters identify to a group (country etc...) , and will support players according to this.
Now for some people Scarlett and Eve are of the same genre, for others there is a slight difference, for others it's totally different. This is a complicated matter but at least I don't see a reason why some people could not see Eve and Scarlett as being part of different groups of persons. And I don't see why you mention transphobia and ignorance.
Scarlett is a great player, and I have personally cheered for her in many tournaments. I consider her as a female. But nonetheless, I will still consider her achievement separately from the one of a non-transgender female. It's like "first american winning [any tournament]" and "first korean winning [any tournament]". There is no big difference between an american and a korean except nationality which should basically have nothing to do with SC2 skills, still people may cheer for these in a different way.
For me it's the exact same thing for people making a difference between a transgender and a non transgender female. No huge difference to me, but still I don't see why this should be a problem to make any distinction between them.
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Let's take this debate to extremes. Let's say a well-known and accomplished progamer decides to go full transgender. Hell, let's say Flash decides he wants to be girl now. How would the community react? Would everybody say the most succesful Brood War player of all time was a girl?
Something similar happened with RootPuck minus being accomplished. Scarlett always appeared to be Male to Female Transgender while Puck started as a guy in SC2 and had his "change" during playing SC2.
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On December 20 2012 21:06 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 19:48 dcemuser wrote:On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_in_sportsWith that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions. I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business. It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored. Everything you said up to here is fine except the bolded words should be "sex" not "gender". Sex refers to physical differences (which is what you are describing for the most part). On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote:
Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish. This is false. IF that image is legitimate, then Eve and her friend purposefully used incorrect gender pronouns, which is ignorant and childish even if not malicious in intent. @ the post in its entirety: The only reason people get upset when you point out legitimate potential differences between trans-females and cis-females is that you're providing some legitimacy (even if a very small amount) to the masses that discriminate against transgenders. It's basically like throwing fish food into a pool of idiot fish; you're inadvertently helping them sustain their (mostly) irrational beliefs. I'm not saying that I feel that way persay, but that is why people will jump down your throat even if you bring up a potentially legitimate difference - because you're doing something that is just about the last thing the transgender community needs. You kinda have to aware of the Asian culture. Asian people are more likely to be homophobia than European or even American. Not in the sense of absolute hate but more in the sense that does not accept it as a normal thing.
Exactly. I'm not asian but I think that is the way they basically think indeed.
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On December 20 2012 13:20 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 13:17 Snorkle wrote:On December 20 2012 13:11 Dodgin wrote:
If she is still sticking with the game at this point when popularity is declining and there are no easy money opportunities for being a cheerleader I think It's safe to say she's serious about trying to be competitive. I think It's really silly that Naniwa can't get on a team and Eve who has no success has found one though. Either way good luck and I hope Azubu will be successful in GSTL.
Unless it turns out they're paying her a ton of money to not be very good and sit on the bench for GSTL and never play, then that would be silly and I take it back. See, the problem is nobody wants Naniwa on their team because he is a nightmare to deal with. Naniwa can't get a team because he burnt all his bridges already. Grats to Eve. Okay sure, that makes sense. But what about every other teamless player? Koreans,  Alicia...  YugiOhLots to choose from, who are obviously better than Eve. ( Some of them are announced to join, to be fair. That's really good of course. )
I think you should not assume that all these people "can't find a team", just because they aren't on a team right now. I am sure they could all find "some" team very quickly but they probably want to get a good contract that includes a salary or other stuff. Eve on the other hand is probably a cheap pickup for Azubu.
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Basically what Naruto said, and
Someone please moderate this thread... -.-
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It s nice to see the former SlayerS players finally picked up by other teams and that none of them is left out.
Good luck and I hope we ll see Azubu.Eve in a couple GSTL games.
edit: fixed a horrendous typo
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On December 20 2012 19:33 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote:My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_in_sportsWith that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions. I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business. It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored. Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish. Very well-worded post without offending anyone. Very good on that matter, have seen tons of other posts. Here's my finale take on it, as I already hat that discussion: I consider Scarlett what she is now, a female. I do that due to respect towards her and her feelings. In the discussion about performance in sports its about ruling and I feel sorry to say so, but in any other competetive (physical) sports (Olympics for example) she would not be considered a female-athlete. So in that matter, I really feel that we should think over what some people wrote, because even though she feels like a woman from when she can remember up to now, biologically born she's a male person. In an ideal world we should not have a difference in sports like ours (eSports) between men and women, but as it is, we have. I think its disrespectful to any 'REAL FEMALE' (biologically female) to have a male-born transgender, even though acceptable, taking away their results. 3 options in my opinion in eSports: 1) Don't judge based on gender 2) Judge based on gender, but then Scarlett clearly would need to list her achievements under the male aspect and also compete in mixed or male tournaments 3) Rate her as female, but thats ignoring that simple fact that she was born a man. No hard feelings, just thought I'd write that out.
My thoughts exactly.
Now to go back to the main subject, I'm really happy for Eve. I was afraid we would never be able to see her play anymore, but finally there is some hope. I want to see her play several games, if possible with less pressure than such a high level match as the one against Sniper, and with her main race which is now protoss. Grats for the new team, I wish her all the best there ! Eve fighting !!
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What I am more curiosu about is, since AZUBU plans to enter the GSTL, will they also join the ESF?
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On December 20 2012 23:21 samurai80 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 19:33 Type|NarutO wrote:On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote:My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_in_sportsWith that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions. I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business. It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored. Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish. Very well-worded post without offending anyone. Very good on that matter, have seen tons of other posts. Here's my finale take on it, as I already hat that discussion: I consider Scarlett what she is now, a female. I do that due to respect towards her and her feelings. In the discussion about performance in sports its about ruling and I feel sorry to say so, but in any other competetive (physical) sports (Olympics for example) she would not be considered a female-athlete. So in that matter, I really feel that we should think over what some people wrote, because even though she feels like a woman from when she can remember up to now, biologically born she's a male person. In an ideal world we should not have a difference in sports like ours (eSports) between men and women, but as it is, we have. I think its disrespectful to any 'REAL FEMALE' (biologically female) to have a male-born transgender, even though acceptable, taking away their results. 3 options in my opinion in eSports: 1) Don't judge based on gender 2) Judge based on gender, but then Scarlett clearly would need to list her achievements under the male aspect and also compete in mixed or male tournaments 3) Rate her as female, but thats ignoring that simple fact that she was born a man. No hard feelings, just thought I'd write that out. My thoughts exactly. Now to go back to the main subject, I'm really happy for Eve. I was afraid we would never be able to see her play anymore, but finally there is some hope. I want to see her play several games, if possible with less pressure than such a high level match as the one against Sniper, and with her main race which is now protoss. Grats for the new team, I wish her all the best there ! Eve fighting !!
Ya, I'm kind of excited that Eve is joining another respectable team. It would do wonders in the Korean scene if they were able to get enough female progamers to start up a female Starleague like they did in SC1 with ToSsGirL dominating everyone 
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On December 21 2012 00:17 QuanticTheognis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 23:21 samurai80 wrote:On December 20 2012 19:33 Type|NarutO wrote:On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote:My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_in_sportsWith that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions. I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business. It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored. Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish. Very well-worded post without offending anyone. Very good on that matter, have seen tons of other posts. Here's my finale take on it, as I already hat that discussion: I consider Scarlett what she is now, a female. I do that due to respect towards her and her feelings. In the discussion about performance in sports its about ruling and I feel sorry to say so, but in any other competetive (physical) sports (Olympics for example) she would not be considered a female-athlete. So in that matter, I really feel that we should think over what some people wrote, because even though she feels like ay woman from when she can remember up to now, biologically born she's a male person. In an ideal world we should not have a difference in sports like ours (eSports) between men and women, but as it is, we have. I think its disrespectful to any 'REAL FEMALE' (biologically female) to have a male-born transgender, even though acceptable, taking away their results. 3 options in my opinion in eSports: 1) Don't judge based on gender 2) Judge based on gender, but then Scarlett clearly would need to list her achievements under the male aspect and also compete in mixed or male tournaments 3) Rate her as female, but thats ignoring that simple fact that she was born a man. No hard feelings, just thought I'd write that out. My thoughts exactly. Now to go back to the main subject, I'm really happy for Eve. I was afraid we would never be able to see her play anymore, but finally there is some hope. I want to see her play several games, if possible with less pressure than such a high level match as the one against Sniper, and with her main race which is now protoss. Grats for the new team, I wish her all the best there ! Eve fighting !! Ya, I'm kind of excited that Eve is joining another respectable team. It would do wonders in the Korean scene if they were able to get enough female progamers to start up a female Starleague like they did in SC1 with ToSsGirL dominating everyone
That would be awesome! By the way grats for the new team for u2 ! GL HF 
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EPT
