NOTE: I am well aware that this thread exists: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=388563 However, if you read closely, it says that AZUBU PLANS to announce the signing of these new players. Which means nothing was confirmed or offical. If you look at AZUBU's liquipedia page, none of the player transfers are recorded because they have not been made official yet.
But at least now we can officially add Eve
AZUBU_Eve (Since people are not all aware of this I am putting it here. Eve was formerly a Terran player. And yes, she played Terran for GSTL. But only because that's what she was registered under when SlayerS signed up their roster. Eve switched to Protoss a few months back however so her main race is now Protoss.)
Eve posted on a SNS (Social Networking Site) that she had officially joined AZUBU.
Eve stated that "I want to thank my fans and friends for supporting me as I join this new team." "I am going to work hard so that I am known as an actual pro gamer rather than just the team's mascot."
AZUBU also announced several days ago that they were planning on signing Genius and Sleep, but requested that nothing be made official until they released an official announcement themselves portraying their official roster.
Since it was announced that AZUBU is planning on participating in the next season of GSTL, fans all around the world know that AZUBU has even more players to announce aside from Eve, Genius, and Sleep.
Eve's facebook friends replied to her status update with congratulations messages and messages wishing her well with her future with AZUBU. Last but not least, AZUBU's first signed player, viOLet, sent a message to Eve saying "Welcome. This is your first time right? With AZUBU?"
Startale has a female progamer (I think) and Scarlett has proven that she can kick some koreans out of tournaments! I hope Eve does just as well as these two.
I wish Eve luck! I really hope that she show some good results with her new team. I was sad that we didn't get to see much of her while she was on SlayerS.
Congratulations! I'm sorry, but I'm still sceptical concerning the "real progamer" - but I'd be glad to be surprised, and see Eve fielded in an important match in a team league or see her qualify for some tournament!
On December 20 2012 07:41 goswser wrote: Good luck to Eve, from her words here it seems like she has a lot of motivation.
She's been a progamer for around 2 years now I think and I've never seen or heard of her playing a real game in a tournament.
Her prospect for success is worse than most players stuck in Code B pretty much. We'll see with time I guess, but I don't expect anything. I feel kind of bad for her because she doesn't seem to want to quit.
I really hope she can continue to grow as a player. It's good to see girl players put forth such a hard effort to prove themselves. It really shows how true their dedication is. Good luck Eve! Eve Fighting!
On December 20 2012 07:30 EnumaAvalon wrote: Startale has a female progamer (I think) and Scarlett has proven that she can kick some koreans out of tournaments! I hope Eve does just as well as these two.
ST_Aphrodite is who you are talking about, she is RainbOw's girlfriend.
On December 20 2012 07:30 EnumaAvalon wrote: Startale has a female progamer (I think) and Scarlett has proven that she can kick some koreans out of tournaments! I hope Eve does just as well as these two.
ST_Aphrodite is who you are talking about, she is RainbOw's girlfriend.
I'm pretty sure Startale had another female gamer. Some Chinese commentator or something along those lines. Also afaik oGs had a girl too. Would be interessting to know what happened to them(probably retired).
Congrats to Eve! The more female players get a chance the better :D
Do we have any idea where her skill level is at at this point? I mean, low-high masters? Maybe she even made GM by now although I know that's super hard to do in Korea?
The "not a mascot" line makes me think she sort of resents her time in SlayerS.
Not that I have anything against her chalking up some wins in the tournament scene but I havent even seen her chalk up games period either sooooo, not sure what is going on.
The news of AZUBU joining GSTL is far more interesting here then Eve becoming a full time pro. Still, I wish her the best of luck, I'd love to see if she has the commitment to put in the long hours the pros do, and if she can make something out of it.
On December 20 2012 07:30 EnumaAvalon wrote: Startale has a female progamer (I think) and Scarlett has proven that she can kick some koreans out of tournaments! I hope Eve does just as well as these two.
ST_Aphrodite is who you are talking about, she is RainbOw's girlfriend.
I'm pretty sure Startale had another female gamer. Some Chinese commentator or something along those lines. Also afaik oGs had a girl too. Would be interessting to know what happened to them(probably retired).
On December 20 2012 07:30 EnumaAvalon wrote: Startale has a female progamer (I think) and Scarlett has proven that she can kick some koreans out of tournaments! I hope Eve does just as well as these two.
ST_Aphrodite is who you are talking about, she is RainbOw's girlfriend.
I'm pretty sure Startale had another female gamer. Some Chinese commentator or something along those lines. Also afaik oGs had a girl too. Would be interessting to know what happened to them(probably retired).
On December 20 2012 07:30 EnumaAvalon wrote: Startale has a female progamer (I think) and Scarlett has proven that she can kick some koreans out of tournaments! I hope Eve does just as well as these two.
ST_Aphrodite is who you are talking about, she is RainbOw's girlfriend.
I'm pretty sure Startale had another female gamer. Some Chinese commentator or something along those lines. Also afaik oGs had a girl too. Would be interessting to know what happened to them(probably retired).
Ahh yes, that's the girl I meant. Wasn't the oGs girl some kind of Tossgirl(BW background)?
Since it was announced that AZUBU is planning on participating in the next season of GSTL
That's awesome, because it probably means they will really pick up Top and Inca and Eve might actually get to play some games, but am I the only one who missed that announcement? oO
whats her skill level like atm? her games in GSTL were embarrassing tbh, i hope she does well at azubu, but i feel she wasnt picked up for her in game performance
On December 20 2012 07:27 neoghaleon55 wrote: as lulzy as her performance in the gstl was, I can't help but root for this girl. gl eve. Break dat glass ceiling!
Well the GSTL situation was kind of messed up. The team had her registered as a terran instead of protoss (her main race) which is why she went for that horrible all in. This time she'll play protoss and be able to show her real skills
I really hope she does well. it's a sad fact (actually I don't think it's all that sad but whatever) that if you want exposure, you get a girl beating boys. take that little girl who kicks ass at runningback in Pop Warner (youth American football). there are plenty of little boys who stomp face in Pop Warner, but she gets on national, prime-time television and gets Oprah coverage because she is a girl who beats boys.
and that inspires more girls to try it out, which then in turn inspires more coverage because everyone likes seeing girl's succeed in a "male world". it's a win-win-win because it gets more girls playing (never a bad thing), makes fans happy (always a good thing), and normalizes and mainstreams the actual game (fucking awesome if you want growth).
On December 20 2012 07:27 neoghaleon55 wrote: as lulzy as her performance in the gstl was, I can't help but root for this girl. gl eve. Break dat glass ceiling!
I'd heard that she had actually switched to Protoss a while before the GSTL match, but was forced to play Terran because they hadn't updated her player info with GomTV. Something like that
Anyways, I'm looking forward to seeing her play! Hopefully she'll make some appearances in the SC2 events/leagues that I watch
Jessica definitely made her seem like a mascot in the SlayerS team. Poor Eve. Hopefully she's finally able to climb her way through the Code A Qualifiers.
I really hope she does well I don't like adding girls that have no talent when she was first on slayers she was in diamond. I really hope she has improved more just seems like a waste. But with that in mind I will support the whole way with this opportunity give it ur all!
What was her match against Sniper like? Am I right in recollecting that she almost won with the race that she doesn't even play? If so, I don't really see a reason for hating on her for getting signed onto AZUBU. She has potential in addition to being a "she", Even if she used an allin that game, you aren't even supposed to come close to beating a GSL champion-class opponent, even if you're allining. If not, well I just made myself look like an idiot. Still don't hold a grudge for her getting signed onto a pro-team, though.
On December 20 2012 10:18 8mmspikes wrote: Errr OP states she is Protoss but Liquipedia says she is Terran, which is what I remember from her on SlayerS? Which one is it ?_?
Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
90-95% of male gamers will never win a major tournament....
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
90-95% of male gamers will never in a major tournament....
Yeah there are just simply less female sc2 players
AZUBU is planning on participating in the next season of GSTL
Oh yeah! Can't wait to see how they perform. I really like what AZUBU has done so far, taking things slow by starting with only one player, then expanding.
Seems like they have some pretty smart guys (/girls) behind this!
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
it would be more accurate to say her relative skill. if you claim it was the lowest skill level in GSL history it would be wrong considering the awful play in the open seasons and the first few seasons of code a that were worse than what Eve showed. She was definitely outclassed in her performance but if that linked 70% win rate Korean masters account is really her she definitely is showing more promise than when she first started on Slayers
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
90-95% of male gamers will never win a major tournament....
90-95% of male gamers will never be on a real team.
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
It's worth noting that her main race was already Protoss at this point but she played as Terran because that was the race she was signed up as on the SlayerS roster. So it wasn't only a (admittedly) less skilled player playing against one of the top Korean Zergs who had been on a huge tear in the GSTL, but she was also offracing.
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro).
Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh.
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
She switched to toss, but GSTL rules made her play T (Because she registered as T).
Pretty understandable to not do so good if you play a race that you stopped playing a while ago.
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Not quite what I was hoping for, no offense to incontrol. Technicalities being what they are, I am proven wrong.
Perhaps Eve could make a splash by being the first female to win a broadcast game (I assume flo vs incontrol wouldn't have been broadcast).
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:54 Fission wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro).
Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh.
I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
On December 20 2012 12:12 Zaqwe wrote: I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Not quite what I was hoping for, no offense to incontrol. Technicalities being what they are, I am proven wrong.
Perhaps Eve could make a splash by being the first female to win a broadcast game (I assume flo vs incontrol wouldn't have been broadcast).
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:54 Fission wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro).
Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh.
I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
Take your transphobia and ignorance elsewhere, please.
On December 20 2012 12:12 Zaqwe wrote: I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
I have no idea what you are arguing about O_o
I was saying how wonderful it would be if Eve is serious about being competetive. I would very much like to see a female progamer take some televised matches in a serious setting like GSTL.
Someone told me that Scarlett has already done so, not knowing Scarlett is actually transgender. There is nothing wrong with being transgender, but a transgender biological male is not the same as a female.
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Not quite what I was hoping for, no offense to incontrol. Technicalities being what they are, I am proven wrong.
Perhaps Eve could make a splash by being the first female to win a broadcast game (I assume flo vs incontrol wouldn't have been broadcast).
On December 20 2012 11:23 Mortal wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:59 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:52 decado90 wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:54 Fission wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro).
Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh.
I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
Take your transphobia and ignorance elsewhere, please.
I cheer for Scarlett all the time. I am very proud that Scarlett is from my home country, as I can finally cheer for a genuine Canadian. I have no problem with Scarlett being transgender.
It seems you are the one who suffers from ignorance.
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Not quite what I was hoping for, no offense to incontrol. Technicalities being what they are, I am proven wrong.
Perhaps Eve could make a splash by being the first female to win a broadcast game (I assume flo vs incontrol wouldn't have been broadcast).
On December 20 2012 11:23 Mortal wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:59 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:52 decado90 wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:54 Fission wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro).
Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh.
I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
Take your transphobia and ignorance elsewhere, please.
I cheer for Scarlett all the time. I am very proud that Scarlett is from my home country, as I can finally cheer for a genuine Canadian. I have no problem with Scarlett being transgender.
It seems you are the one who suffers from ignorance.
You're spreading hate about Scarlett under the guise of concern trolling. "Biologically male" is not a meaningful identifier, and if you knew even the smallest thing about biology (beyond whatever you learned in high school), you'd know that's true.
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Not quite what I was hoping for, no offense to incontrol. Technicalities being what they are, I am proven wrong.
Perhaps Eve could make a splash by being the first female to win a broadcast game (I assume flo vs incontrol wouldn't have been broadcast).
On December 20 2012 11:23 Mortal wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:59 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:52 decado90 wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:54 Fission wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro).
Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh.
I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
Take your transphobia and ignorance elsewhere, please.
I cheer for Scarlett all the time. I am very proud that Scarlett is from my home country, as I can finally cheer for a genuine Canadian. I have no problem with Scarlett being transgender.
It seems you are the one who suffers from ignorance.
You're spreading hate about Scarlett under the guise of concern trolling. "Biologically male" is not a meaningful identifier, and if you knew even the smallest thing about biology (beyond whatever you learned in high school), you'd know that's true.
Maybe you are the one who harbours hatred for Scarlett and other transgenders, if you find it so offensive to discuss being transgender?
I accept people for who they are.
You have gone completely off the deep end by claiming having male or female genetics isn't meaningful.
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Not quite what I was hoping for, no offense to incontrol. Technicalities being what they are, I am proven wrong.
Perhaps Eve could make a splash by being the first female to win a broadcast game (I assume flo vs incontrol wouldn't have been broadcast).
On December 20 2012 11:23 Mortal wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:59 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:52 decado90 wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:54 Fission wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro).
Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh.
I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
Take your transphobia and ignorance elsewhere, please.
I cheer for Scarlett all the time. I am very proud that Scarlett is from my home country, as I can finally cheer for a genuine Canadian. I have no problem with Scarlett being transgender.
It seems you are the one who suffers from ignorance.
You're spreading hate about Scarlett under the guise of concern trolling. "Biologically male" is not a meaningful identifier, and if you knew even the smallest thing about biology (beyond whatever you learned in high school), you'd know that's true.
Maybe you are the one who harbours hatred for Scarlett and other transgenders, if you find it so offensive to discuss being transgender?
I accept people for who they are.
You have gone completely off the deep end by claiming having male or female genetics isn't meaningful.
You clearly don't know the first thing about trans* issues or you wouldn't even be arguing. Scarlett is female, end of story.
Good luck to EVE, I hope your career is long and fruitful.
On December 20 2012 12:31 sc2superfan101 wrote: you know it's funny, I thought the title of this thread was "Eve joins AZUBU" when it's apparently "get into an argument about Scarlett"...
I think it's stupid too, but apparently you can't have high hopes for women in SC2 or really comment about them at all without someone bringing up Scarlett.
On December 20 2012 12:31 sc2superfan101 wrote: you know it's funny, I thought the title of this thread was "Eve joins AZUBU" when it's apparently "get into an argument about Scarlett"...
I think it's stupid too, but apparently you can't have high hopes for women in SC2 or really comment about them at all without someone bringing up Scarlett.
because the community considers her a woman, including the people who arrange female only tournaments. get over it.
On December 20 2012 12:31 sc2superfan101 wrote: you know it's funny, I thought the title of this thread was "Eve joins AZUBU" when it's apparently "get into an argument about Scarlett"...
I think it's stupid too, but apparently you can't have high hopes for women in SC2 or really comment about them at all without someone bringing up Scarlett.
because the community considers her a woman, including the people who arrange female only tournaments. get over it.
And sadly that attitude diminishes the results of any biologically female progamers, if they ever achieve any.
Eve winning even a single match would be a huge breakthrough for women.
On December 20 2012 12:31 sc2superfan101 wrote: you know it's funny, I thought the title of this thread was "Eve joins AZUBU" when it's apparently "get into an argument about Scarlett"...
I think it's stupid too, but apparently you can't have high hopes for women in SC2 or really comment about them at all without someone bringing up Scarlett.
because the community considers her a woman, including the people who arrange female only tournaments. get over it.
And sadly that attitude diminishes the results of any biologically female progamers, if they ever achieve any.
Eve winning even a single match would be a huge breakthrough for women.
it diminishes nothing, and no it would not be a huge breakthrough.
On December 20 2012 12:31 sc2superfan101 wrote: you know it's funny, I thought the title of this thread was "Eve joins AZUBU" when it's apparently "get into an argument about Scarlett"...
I think it's stupid too, but apparently you can't have high hopes for women in SC2 or really comment about them at all without someone bringing up Scarlett.
because the community considers her a woman, including the people who arrange female only tournaments. get over it.
And sadly that attitude diminishes the results of any biologically female progamers, if they ever achieve any.
Eve winning even a single match would be a huge breakthrough for women.
it diminishes nothing, and no it would not be a huge breakthrough.
In what way would it not be a huge breakthrough?
If you say because Scarlett is already competitive you prove my point about diminishing the results of biological females.
On December 20 2012 12:31 sc2superfan101 wrote: you know it's funny, I thought the title of this thread was "Eve joins AZUBU" when it's apparently "get into an argument about Scarlett"...
I think it's stupid too, but apparently you can't have high hopes for women in SC2 or really comment about them at all without someone bringing up Scarlett.
because the community considers her a woman, including the people who arrange female only tournaments. get over it.
And sadly that attitude diminishes the results of any biologically female progamers, if they ever achieve any.
Eve winning even a single match would be a huge breakthrough for women.
it diminishes nothing, and no it would not be a huge breakthrough.
In what way would it not be a huge breakthrough?
If you say because Scarlett is already competitive you prove my point about diminishing the results of biological females.
On December 20 2012 12:31 sc2superfan101 wrote: you know it's funny, I thought the title of this thread was "Eve joins AZUBU" when it's apparently "get into an argument about Scarlett"...
I think it's stupid too, but apparently you can't have high hopes for women in SC2 or really comment about them at all without someone bringing up Scarlett.
because the community considers her a woman, including the people who arrange female only tournaments. get over it.
And sadly that attitude diminishes the results of any biologically female progamers, if they ever achieve any.
Eve winning even a single match would be a huge breakthrough for women.
it diminishes nothing, and no it would not be a huge breakthrough.
In what way would it not be a huge breakthrough?
If you say because Scarlett is already competitive you prove my point about diminishing the results of biological females.
because it wouldnt.
That's not a response. Why are you even posting if you don't want to respond?
On December 20 2012 12:31 sc2superfan101 wrote: you know it's funny, I thought the title of this thread was "Eve joins AZUBU" when it's apparently "get into an argument about Scarlett"...
I think it's stupid too, but apparently you can't have high hopes for women in SC2 or really comment about them at all without someone bringing up Scarlett.
because the community considers her a woman, including the people who arrange female only tournaments. get over it.
And sadly that attitude diminishes the results of any biologically female progamers, if they ever achieve any.
Eve winning even a single match would be a huge breakthrough for women.
it diminishes nothing, and no it would not be a huge breakthrough.
In what way would it not be a huge breakthrough?
If you say because Scarlett is already competitive you prove my point about diminishing the results of biological females.
because it wouldnt.
That's not a response. Why are you even posting if you don't want to respond?
how the fuck is any of this relevant to the OP? Eve joined Azubu.
If she is still sticking with the game at this point when popularity is declining and there are no easy money opportunities for being a cheerleader I think It's safe to say she's serious about trying to be competitive. I think It's really silly that Naniwa can't get on a team and Eve who has no success has found one though. Either way good luck and I hope Azubu will be successful in GSTL.
Unless it turns out they're paying her a ton of money to not be very good and sit on the bench for GSTL and never play, then that would be silly and I take it back.
On December 20 2012 13:11 Dodgin wrote: If she is still sticking with the game at this point when popularity is declining and there are no easy money opportunities for being a cheerleader I think It's safe to say she's serious about trying to be competitive. I think It's really silly that Naniwa can't get on a team and Eve who has no success has found one though. Either way good luck and I hope Azubu will be successful in GSTL.
Unless it turns out they're paying her a ton of money to not be very good and sit on the bench for GSTL and never play, then that would be silly and I take it back.
Naniwa was supposed to rejoin Dignitas this month. Then one of the team manager's(iirc it was a manager) house caught fire and they no longer have the money to afford him. He was going to be teamed, way before Eve was, but due to unfortunate events, wasn't able to join.
On December 20 2012 13:11 Dodgin wrote: If she is still sticking with the game at this point when popularity is declining and there are no easy money opportunities for being a cheerleader I think It's safe to say she's serious about trying to be competitive. I think It's really silly that Naniwa can't get on a team and Eve who has no success has found one though. Either way good luck and I hope Azubu will be successful in GSTL.
Unless it turns out they're paying her a ton of money to not be very good and sit on the bench for GSTL and never play, then that would be silly and I take it back.
See, the problem is nobody wants Naniwa on their team because he is a nightmare to deal with. Naniwa can't get a team because he burnt all his bridges already.
On December 20 2012 13:11 Dodgin wrote: If she is still sticking with the game at this point when popularity is declining and there are no easy money opportunities for being a cheerleader I think It's safe to say she's serious about trying to be competitive. I think It's really silly that Naniwa can't get on a team and Eve who has no success has found one though. Either way good luck and I hope Azubu will be successful in GSTL.
Unless it turns out they're paying her a ton of money to not be very good and sit on the bench for GSTL and never play, then that would be silly and I take it back.
See, the problem is nobody wants Naniwa on their team because he is a nightmare to deal with. Naniwa can't get a team because he burnt all his bridges already.
Grats to Eve.
Okay sure, that makes sense. But what about every other teamless player?
On December 20 2012 13:11 Dodgin wrote: If she is still sticking with the game at this point when popularity is declining and there are no easy money opportunities for being a cheerleader I think It's safe to say she's serious about trying to be competitive. I think It's really silly that Naniwa can't get on a team and Eve who has no success has found one though. Either way good luck and I hope Azubu will be successful in GSTL.
Unless it turns out they're paying her a ton of money to not be very good and sit on the bench for GSTL and never play, then that would be silly and I take it back.
See, the problem is nobody wants Naniwa on their team because he is a nightmare to deal with. Naniwa can't get a team because he burnt all his bridges already.
Grats to Eve.
Okay sure, that makes sense. But what about every other teamless player?
Lots to choose from, who are obviously better than Eve. ( Some of them are announced to join, to be fair. That's really good of course. )
I just hope she will be more than a mascot because that's all she was on SlayerS.
To be fair, Eve doesn't need to be better than all those you listed to be marketable.
The best female progamer (not saying she is the best, but could be) will have higher visibility and popularity than a mid tier male, even if the male is better.
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Not quite what I was hoping for, no offense to incontrol. Technicalities being what they are, I am proven wrong.
Perhaps Eve could make a splash by being the first female to win a broadcast game (I assume flo vs incontrol wouldn't have been broadcast).
On December 20 2012 11:23 Mortal wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:59 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:52 decado90 wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:54 Fission wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro).
Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh.
I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
Take your transphobia and ignorance elsewhere, please.
Oh yeah, I totally forgot I had this pic. Never thought it'd ever be relevant.
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Not quite what I was hoping for, no offense to incontrol. Technicalities being what they are, I am proven wrong.
Perhaps Eve could make a splash by being the first female to win a broadcast game (I assume flo vs incontrol wouldn't have been broadcast).
On December 20 2012 11:23 Mortal wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:59 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:52 decado90 wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:54 Fission wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro).
Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh.
I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
Take your transphobia and ignorance elsewhere, please.
Oh yeah, I totally forgot I had this pic. Never thought it'd ever be relevant.
What's your source on that picture? Self screencap from FB?
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Not quite what I was hoping for, no offense to incontrol. Technicalities being what they are, I am proven wrong.
Perhaps Eve could make a splash by being the first female to win a broadcast game (I assume flo vs incontrol wouldn't have been broadcast).
On December 20 2012 11:23 Mortal wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:59 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:52 decado90 wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:54 Fission wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro).
Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh.
I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
Take your transphobia and ignorance elsewhere, please.
Oh yeah, I totally forgot I had this pic. Never thought it'd ever be relevant.
You chatted with Eve? So jelly! Yup, he is not a girl. (this sounds weird)
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Not quite what I was hoping for, no offense to incontrol. Technicalities being what they are, I am proven wrong.
Perhaps Eve could make a splash by being the first female to win a broadcast game (I assume flo vs incontrol wouldn't have been broadcast).
On December 20 2012 11:23 Mortal wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:59 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:52 decado90 wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:54 Fission wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro).
Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh.
I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
Take your transphobia and ignorance elsewhere, please.
Oh quiet down with that PC bullshit.. Scarlett's a fantastic SC2 player and seems like a great person to be around. Pointing out that she was once a man is NOT INCORRECT. Her birth certificate presumably has "M" beside the gender designation.
Its one thing to be accepting of someone who is transexual and wants to be recognized as a woman, its a completely different story to ignore the facts in the name of being politically correct.
Aren't these threads supposed to be moderated? Is the OP identifying coverage of Eve's recruitment to Azubu or am I blind? Do us all a favor. Take your ignorance / jealousy for Scarlett's success as a female pro gamer and bury it along with yourself in a deep hole somewhere. I know commenting on the actual topic of the thread is such a daunting task but maybe with a little effort... miracles can happen. Also, if http://i.imgur.com/mpGVG.png is real and not fabricated, it looks like she has some growing up to do.
On topic it's cool to see Azubu grow and develop this full-fledged SC2 team. Violet has had an amazing 2012 and it will be pretty exciting to see joined by some other great names in the scene. GL Azubu!
On December 20 2012 16:12 BrassMonkey27 wrote: Oh quiet down with that PC bullshit.. Scarlett's a fantastic SC2 player and seems like a great person to be around. Pointing out that she was once a man is NOT INCORRECT. Her birth certificate presumably has "M" beside the gender designation.
Its one thing to be accepting of someone who is transexual and wants to be recognized as a woman, its a completely different story to ignore the facts in the name of being politically correct.
I'm sorry.. but stuff like this pisses me off.
Pretty sure that it would say that she's Female on her birth certificate. Either way, Scarlett's birth gender is completely irrelevant to both the thread and the point you're making. Not to suggest that you're an ignorant person or anything of that sort, but I think it would do you good to meet/talk with some transgender people about the issue, because it seems quite clear to me that you're lacking perspective and a proper appreciation/understanding of it.
On December 20 2012 16:49 Relentless` wrote: Also, if http://i.imgur.com/mpGVG.png is real and not fabricated, it looks like she has some growing up to do.
I don't know if that's entirely the case, that line of thinkning towards homosexuals/transgender individuals is still pretty mainstream in Korea, to my knowledge.
All that said, if she's come all the way from Gold to Masters then it at least shows she's dedicated to improving. GL to her and AZUBU!
On December 20 2012 13:11 Dodgin wrote: If she is still sticking with the game at this point when popularity is declining and there are no easy money opportunities for being a cheerleader I think It's safe to say she's serious about trying to be competitive. I think It's really silly that Naniwa can't get on a team and Eve who has no success has found one though. Either way good luck and I hope Azubu will be successful in GSTL.
Unless it turns out they're paying her a ton of money to not be very good and sit on the bench for GSTL and never play, then that would be silly and I take it back.
Naniwa has stated that he is in talk with several teams both koreans and foreigners, he just hasn't decided, stop claiming false facts, he could get a team immedietely but choosing the right one is kinda important ^^
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Not quite what I was hoping for, no offense to incontrol. Technicalities being what they are, I am proven wrong.
Perhaps Eve could make a splash by being the first female to win a broadcast game (I assume flo vs incontrol wouldn't have been broadcast).
On December 20 2012 11:23 Mortal wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:59 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:52 decado90 wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:54 Fission wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro).
Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh.
I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
Take your transphobia and ignorance elsewhere, please.
Oh quiet down with that PC bullshit.. Scarlett's a fantastic SC2 player and seems like a great person to be around. Pointing out that she was once a man is NOT INCORRECT. Her birth certificate presumably has "M" beside the gender designation.
Its one thing to be accepting of someone who is transexual and wants to be recognized as a woman, its a completely different story to ignore the facts in the name of being politically correct.
I'm sorry.. but stuff like this pisses me off.
Thought I recognized your name, you've gotten banned quite a few times and it's not hard to see why.
on topic though, glad to see a team that actually markets picks up Eve, I presume we'll be see a lot of her from now on.
Seeker can you just put that she switched to protoss a few months back but was forced to play terran in GSTL because Slayers never updated the roster? Every other post is asking why she is listed as P and not T
My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance.
With that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions.
I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business.
It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored. Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish.
On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote: My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance.
I know a transgender and it is exactly as you say.
They feel like they are born in the wrong body.
I know someone just like Scarlett who started changing sex very early on in her life. It is definitely something very difficult to describe for people who do not live it and I feel even if I try my very best I will never be able to quite understand the difficulty and hardship period that you have to go through. Whoever claims stupid stuff about Scarlett is merely ignorant and does not understand this particular subject matter
Azubu planning on participating at GSTL is very pleasant; they seem to be quite rich and more money in the GSTL can´t be bad. Also congratz to Eve, hope to see her outside of korea soon, it would be quite interesting to see, how Eve/Aphrodite would do against foreign competition.
Btw. guys, I came to the conclusion, that Chuck Norris is most likely male. I thought it might be relevant, because it has as much to do with the actual topic, as the current discussion has.
On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote: My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance.
With that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions.
I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business.
It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored. Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish.
Very well-worded post without offending anyone. Very good on that matter, have seen tons of other posts. Here's my finale take on it, as I already hat that discussion:
I consider Scarlett what she is now, a female. I do that due to respect towards her and her feelings. In the discussion about performance in sports its about ruling and I feel sorry to say so, but in any other competetive (physical) sports (Olympics for example) she would not be considered a female-athlete.
So in that matter, I really feel that we should think over what some people wrote, because even though she feels like a woman from when she can remember up to now, biologically born she's a male person. In an ideal world we should not have a difference in sports like ours (eSports) between men and women, but as it is, we have. I think its disrespectful to any 'REAL FEMALE' (biologically female) to have a male-born transgender, even though acceptable, taking away their results.
3 options in my opinion in eSports:
1) Don't judge based on gender 2) Judge based on gender, but then Scarlett clearly would need to list her achievements under the male aspect and also compete in mixed or male tournaments 3) Rate her as female, but thats ignoring that simple fact that she was born a man.
No hard feelings, just thought I'd write that out.
My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance.
With that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions.
I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business.
It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored.
Everything you said up to here is fine except the bolded words should be "sex" not "gender". Sex refers to physical differences (which is what you are describing for the most part).
On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote: Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish.
This is false. IF that image is legitimate, then Eve and her friend purposefully used incorrect gender pronouns, which is ignorant and childish even if not malicious in intent.
@ the post in its entirety: The only reason people get upset when you point out legitimate potential differences between trans-females and cis-females is that you're providing some legitimacy (even if a very small amount) to the masses that discriminate against transgenders. It's basically like throwing fish food into a pool of idiot fish; you're inadvertently helping them sustain their (mostly) irrational beliefs.
I'm not saying that I feel that way persay, but that is why people will jump down your throat even if you bring up a potentially legitimate difference - because you're doing something that is just about the last thing the transgender community needs.
My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance.
With that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions.
I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business.
It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored.
Everything you said up to here is fine except the bolded words should be "sex" not "gender". Sex refers to physical differences (which is what you are describing for the most part).
On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote: Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish.
This is false. IF that image is legitimate, then Eve and her friend purposefully used incorrect gender pronouns, which is ignorant and childish even if not malicious in intent.
@ the post in its entirety: The only reason people get upset when you point out legitimate potential differences between trans-females and cis-females is that you're providing some legitimacy (even if a very small amount) to the masses that discriminate against transgenders. It's basically like throwing fish food into a pool of idiot fish; you're inadvertently helping them sustain their (mostly) irrational beliefs.
I'm not saying that I feel that way persay, but that is why people will jump down your throat even if you bring up a potentially legitimate difference - because you're doing something that is just about the last thing the transgender community needs.
This discussion is one that has only risen to significance in the last decade or so in a layperson sense. When you brought it to my attention, I fully understood my misuse of the words 'gender' and 'sex,' but, before you did so, I didn't even notice it despite being careful about how I worded my post.
The reality is I was raised and brought up in a society and era where gender was sex and changing your habits and perception is not something that is easy. Of the languages I know, I'm most proficient in English and I still make such mistakes. Do you really think Eve actually realizes what she is saying in its entirety? I suspect that if you explained the difference between gender and sex, despite the societal traditionalism of South Korea, I think Eve would be a little more aware. So that's why I say it's unfair to say she's childish. Ignorant, probably, but I think childish is a bit harsh based on what we know.
My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance.
With that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions.
I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business.
It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored.
Everything you said up to here is fine except the bolded words should be "sex" not "gender". Sex refers to physical differences (which is what you are describing for the most part).
On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote: Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish.
This is false. IF that image is legitimate, then Eve and her friend purposefully used incorrect gender pronouns, which is ignorant and childish even if not malicious in intent.
@ the post in its entirety: The only reason people get upset when you point out legitimate potential differences between trans-females and cis-females is that you're providing some legitimacy (even if a very small amount) to the masses that discriminate against transgenders. It's basically like throwing fish food into a pool of idiot fish; you're inadvertently helping them sustain their (mostly) irrational beliefs.
I'm not saying that I feel that way persay, but that is why people will jump down your throat even if you bring up a potentially legitimate difference - because you're doing something that is just about the last thing the transgender community needs.
You kinda have to aware of the Asian culture. Asian people are more likely to be homophobia than European or even American. Not in the sense of absolute hate but more in the sense that does not accept it as a normal thing.
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Not quite what I was hoping for, no offense to incontrol. Technicalities being what they are, I am proven wrong.
Perhaps Eve could make a splash by being the first female to win a broadcast game (I assume flo vs incontrol wouldn't have been broadcast).
On December 20 2012 11:23 Mortal wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:59 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:52 decado90 wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Her game against Sniper was by far the worst display of skill in GSL history and was insulting to the viewers tbh.
I thought it was cute.
But maybe she is better with protoss. I don't expec AZUBU to field her at all if she isn't, but if she can even get good enough to snipe one match for them in GSTL it would be impressive.
On December 20 2012 10:54 Fission wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:50 Zaqwe wrote:
On December 20 2012 10:37 HappyTimePANDA wrote: Nice to say she'll be as good as the male players but everyone knows she is there for eye candy. Which I'm fine with but I think we all know we will never see her win a major tounament. Best of luck to her though.
She doesn't need to win a tournament to be competitive.
If she can even get enough skill to take a game off a top male progamer it will be a huge breakthrough for female progamers in sc2. I remember seeing Tossgirl win a match once in BW. It would be nice to see a female win even once in sc2.
Scarlett already owns top male progamers, it's not like Eve would be the first.
You will be disappointed to learn that Scarlett is transgender (biologically male).
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
The level of density in your post is staggering. It wasn't cute, it was a waste of time. And claiming Scarlett is "technically" male is a fucking joke. She's easily the best female player I can think of off hand (significantly above Flo, Eve, Aphro).
Edit: Sorry for one post after another; just noticed this after post and formatting meh.
I am not sure why you put "technically" in quotes. I never used that word.
Scarlett is a biologically male transgender. Scarlett is very good, but is not biologically female.
Let's not diminish any future achievements from women by comparing them to someone who is biologically/genetically male. It would be huge if Eve can really compete in leagues like GSTL and win games for her team.
Scarlett would also win an arm wrestling match against Eve, but it would be no indication that Eve is weak by female standards.
Take your transphobia and ignorance elsewhere, please.
Edit: I'm not the one who wrote the original post and my opinion is not the same as his, do not misunderstand. Edit2: after reading most of his posts, I wouldn't have used his words but it looks like our opinions are basically close.
I think that one is free to consider Scarlett as a male or a female, as she is transgender. But you cannot say she is not a biologically male transgender. Some are asian, some are koreans, some are french, some are americans, some are men, some are women, it's always cool to be the best of his genre. Supporters identify to a group (country etc...) , and will support players according to this.
Now for some people Scarlett and Eve are of the same genre, for others there is a slight difference, for others it's totally different. This is a complicated matter but at least I don't see a reason why some people could not see Eve and Scarlett as being part of different groups of persons. And I don't see why you mention transphobia and ignorance.
Scarlett is a great player, and I have personally cheered for her in many tournaments. I consider her as a female. But nonetheless, I will still consider her achievement separately from the one of a non-transgender female. It's like "first american winning [any tournament]" and "first korean winning [any tournament]". There is no big difference between an american and a korean except nationality which should basically have nothing to do with SC2 skills, still people may cheer for these in a different way.
For me it's the exact same thing for people making a difference between a transgender and a non transgender female. No huge difference to me, but still I don't see why this should be a problem to make any distinction between them.
Let's take this debate to extremes. Let's say a well-known and accomplished progamer decides to go full transgender. Hell, let's say Flash decides he wants to be girl now. How would the community react? Would everybody say the most succesful Brood War player of all time was a girl?
Something similar happened with RootPuck minus being accomplished. Scarlett always appeared to be Male to Female Transgender while Puck started as a guy in SC2 and had his "change" during playing SC2.
My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance.
With that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions.
I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business.
It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored.
Everything you said up to here is fine except the bolded words should be "sex" not "gender". Sex refers to physical differences (which is what you are describing for the most part).
On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote: Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish.
This is false. IF that image is legitimate, then Eve and her friend purposefully used incorrect gender pronouns, which is ignorant and childish even if not malicious in intent.
@ the post in its entirety: The only reason people get upset when you point out legitimate potential differences between trans-females and cis-females is that you're providing some legitimacy (even if a very small amount) to the masses that discriminate against transgenders. It's basically like throwing fish food into a pool of idiot fish; you're inadvertently helping them sustain their (mostly) irrational beliefs.
I'm not saying that I feel that way persay, but that is why people will jump down your throat even if you bring up a potentially legitimate difference - because you're doing something that is just about the last thing the transgender community needs.
You kinda have to aware of the Asian culture. Asian people are more likely to be homophobia than European or even American. Not in the sense of absolute hate but more in the sense that does not accept it as a normal thing.
Exactly. I'm not asian but I think that is the way they basically think indeed.
On December 20 2012 13:11 Dodgin wrote: If she is still sticking with the game at this point when popularity is declining and there are no easy money opportunities for being a cheerleader I think It's safe to say she's serious about trying to be competitive. I think It's really silly that Naniwa can't get on a team and Eve who has no success has found one though. Either way good luck and I hope Azubu will be successful in GSTL.
Unless it turns out they're paying her a ton of money to not be very good and sit on the bench for GSTL and never play, then that would be silly and I take it back.
See, the problem is nobody wants Naniwa on their team because he is a nightmare to deal with. Naniwa can't get a team because he burnt all his bridges already.
Grats to Eve.
Okay sure, that makes sense. But what about every other teamless player?
Lots to choose from, who are obviously better than Eve. ( Some of them are announced to join, to be fair. That's really good of course. )
I think you should not assume that all these people "can't find a team", just because they aren't on a team right now. I am sure they could all find "some" team very quickly but they probably want to get a good contract that includes a salary or other stuff. Eve on the other hand is probably a cheap pickup for Azubu.
On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote: My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance.
With that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions.
I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business.
It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored. Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish.
Very well-worded post without offending anyone. Very good on that matter, have seen tons of other posts. Here's my finale take on it, as I already hat that discussion:
I consider Scarlett what she is now, a female. I do that due to respect towards her and her feelings. In the discussion about performance in sports its about ruling and I feel sorry to say so, but in any other competetive (physical) sports (Olympics for example) she would not be considered a female-athlete.
So in that matter, I really feel that we should think over what some people wrote, because even though she feels like a woman from when she can remember up to now, biologically born she's a male person. In an ideal world we should not have a difference in sports like ours (eSports) between men and women, but as it is, we have. I think its disrespectful to any 'REAL FEMALE' (biologically female) to have a male-born transgender, even though acceptable, taking away their results.
3 options in my opinion in eSports:
1) Don't judge based on gender 2) Judge based on gender, but then Scarlett clearly would need to list her achievements under the male aspect and also compete in mixed or male tournaments 3) Rate her as female, but thats ignoring that simple fact that she was born a man.
No hard feelings, just thought I'd write that out.
My thoughts exactly.
Now to go back to the main subject, I'm really happy for Eve. I was afraid we would never be able to see her play anymore, but finally there is some hope. I want to see her play several games, if possible with less pressure than such a high level match as the one against Sniper, and with her main race which is now protoss. Grats for the new team, I wish her all the best there ! Eve fighting !!
On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote: My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance.
With that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions.
I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business.
It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored. Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish.
Very well-worded post without offending anyone. Very good on that matter, have seen tons of other posts. Here's my finale take on it, as I already hat that discussion:
I consider Scarlett what she is now, a female. I do that due to respect towards her and her feelings. In the discussion about performance in sports its about ruling and I feel sorry to say so, but in any other competetive (physical) sports (Olympics for example) she would not be considered a female-athlete.
So in that matter, I really feel that we should think over what some people wrote, because even though she feels like a woman from when she can remember up to now, biologically born she's a male person. In an ideal world we should not have a difference in sports like ours (eSports) between men and women, but as it is, we have. I think its disrespectful to any 'REAL FEMALE' (biologically female) to have a male-born transgender, even though acceptable, taking away their results.
3 options in my opinion in eSports:
1) Don't judge based on gender 2) Judge based on gender, but then Scarlett clearly would need to list her achievements under the male aspect and also compete in mixed or male tournaments 3) Rate her as female, but thats ignoring that simple fact that she was born a man.
No hard feelings, just thought I'd write that out.
My thoughts exactly.
Now to go back to the main subject, I'm really happy for Eve. I was afraid we would never be able to see her play anymore, but finally there is some hope. I want to see her play several games, if possible with less pressure than such a high level match as the one against Sniper, and with her main race which is now protoss. Grats for the new team, I wish her all the best there ! Eve fighting !!
Ya, I'm kind of excited that Eve is joining another respectable team. It would do wonders in the Korean scene if they were able to get enough female progamers to start up a female Starleague like they did in SC1 with ToSsGirL dominating everyone
On December 20 2012 19:01 Brian333 wrote: My understanding of what it means to be a transgender individual is that your own perception of your gender identity does not match your biologically assigned gender at birth. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance.
With that said, I would just like to start by saying that it's obviously a controversial and two-sided issue in regards to gender identity and classifications within sports achievements and competition. The simple truth is men and women are biologically different and their differences result in differing strengths and weaknesses. Societal biases and prejudices over the history of our kind has also led to behavioral conditioning that puts both genders in disadvantages in some conditions.
I recognize Scarlett as a female. If that is what she considers herself, then that is what she is. Ideally, no separation should be made between the results of male competitors and female competitors, however, if we are to differentiate between gender in regards to results for whatever reason and if Scarlett is indeed biologically male, for the sake of competitive integrity, I just can't consider her results to be those of a female's before we fully understand gender's effects on the human brain and body. I don't know if she has undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormonal therapy, and quite frankly, that is none of my business.
It's like pro-life vs. pro-choice. As it stands now, on a reasonable level, there is a genuine debate and I'm just expressing my stance from one side of the argument. People will disagree and I fully understand and respect their position as well. It's one of those issues where neither side is right and both opinions should be honored. Eve saying the things she did (if that image is real) doesn't mean she is childish.
Very well-worded post without offending anyone. Very good on that matter, have seen tons of other posts. Here's my finale take on it, as I already hat that discussion:
I consider Scarlett what she is now, a female. I do that due to respect towards her and her feelings. In the discussion about performance in sports its about ruling and I feel sorry to say so, but in any other competetive (physical) sports (Olympics for example) she would not be considered a female-athlete.
So in that matter, I really feel that we should think over what some people wrote, because even though she feels like ay woman from when she can remember up to now, biologically born she's a male person. In an ideal world we should not have a difference in sports like ours (eSports) between men and women, but as it is, we have. I think its disrespectful to any 'REAL FEMALE' (biologically female) to have a male-born transgender, even though acceptable, taking away their results.
3 options in my opinion in eSports:
1) Don't judge based on gender 2) Judge based on gender, but then Scarlett clearly would need to list her achievements under the male aspect and also compete in mixed or male tournaments 3) Rate her as female, but thats ignoring that simple fact that she was born a man.
No hard feelings, just thought I'd write that out.
My thoughts exactly.
Now to go back to the main subject, I'm really happy for Eve. I was afraid we would never be able to see her play anymore, but finally there is some hope. I want to see her play several games, if possible with less pressure than such a high level match as the one against Sniper, and with her main race which is now protoss. Grats for the new team, I wish her all the best there ! Eve fighting !!
Ya, I'm kind of excited that Eve is joining another respectable team. It would do wonders in the Korean scene if they were able to get enough female progamers to start up a female Starleague like they did in SC1 with ToSsGirL dominating everyone
That would be awesome! By the way grats for the new team for u2 ! GL HF
On December 21 2012 14:25 Deathmanbob wrote: okay i dont want to be a dick... but is she even going to play? she only went out for slayers as a joke.
Dont get me wrong, i hope she owns face and that its a good pick up, but is it actually going to happen?
It was not a joke, it was a way to give her some good experience in a high level tournament (but without stake as SlayerS was disbanding). I think she trained hard to play in it but this was just too much. I mean first televised match, GSTL, Sniper the rising zerg beast, SlayerS disbanding with a lot of drama around, not playing with her main race... That must have been pretty hard to deal with and she was almost shaking during the match. Now she may have a chance in lower level tournaments with her main race. At the very least she should have a good winrate in women tourneys and there is an audience for these so why not.
EDIT: How many games have you guys seen from her to say she's bad ? If it's only about that one GSTL match it's a bit unfair. I'm also pretty sure she has improved recently.
Regarding the Eve and Scarlett discussion, I'd just like to say that if Eve starts showing similar results against the same Korean opponents that Scarlett has, then I'd consider that an achievement for female gamers everywhere. It IS possible, girls! If she beats a GSL RO4 player [::Scarlett vs Ryung], then she'd be the first female to do so. Fact is, Eve is biologically female. And guess what, there's as many of them as there are us. There aren't as many Scarletts as there are Eves in the world. That said, Scarlett considers herself female, so that's what I would call her. The differences between the sexes in competition, as well as its relevancy to an e-Sport game like Starcraft, is something that may be discussed later.
Congrats to Eve and AZUBU! Hope to see her in action, for better or worse.
On December 20 2012 19:33 Type|NarutO wrote: Very well-worded post without offending anyone. Very good on that matter, have seen tons of other posts. Here's my finale take on it, as I already hat that discussion:
I consider Scarlett what she is now, a female. I do that due to respect towards her and her feelings. In the discussion about performance in sports its about ruling and I feel sorry to say so, but in any other competetive (physical) sports (Olympics for example) she would not be considered a female-athlete.
So in that matter, I really feel that we should think over what some people wrote, because even though she feels like a woman from when she can remember up to now, biologically born she's a male person. In an ideal world we should not have a difference in sports like ours (eSports) between men and women, but as it is, we have. I think its disrespectful to any 'REAL FEMALE' (biologically female) to have a male-born transgender, even though acceptable, taking away their results.
3 options in my opinion in eSports:
1) Don't judge based on gender 2) Judge based on gender, but then Scarlett clearly would need to list her achievements under the male aspect and also compete in mixed or male tournaments 3) Rate her as female, but thats ignoring that simple fact that she was born a man.
No hard feelings, just thought I'd write that out.
The bolded word should be replaced with woman, or trans woman if necessary. All this confusion that is typical for these discussions comes from what is essentially erroneous use of the word female. The English language is to blame.
The word female refers to sex, not gender, and humans cannot change their sex. You can change your listed assigned sex on your birth certificate, and you can undergo sex reassignment surgery and hormone therapy to alter your physical appearance to more closely resemble the sex matching your gender identity, but you cannot change your actual sex. You can even be intersex and a fully blown true hermaphrodite and undergo surgery, but you would still not be changing your sex. You are what you are, even if it cannot be easily classified.
Hence, Eve is a woman and a female, while Scarlett is a woman and not a female.
Edit: Also, thank you OP for bringing Eve's facebook to my attention. I'm totally e-stalking the shit out of her facebook pics right now. And her friends.
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Like we said. A real pro gramer... Not a commentator/caster that refuses to give up his passion. (nothing wrong with that) If Incontrol status was dictate solely on results he wouldn't be on the team. That said he's a very valuable asset to the team and the community.
Edit**
Naniwa can't find a team because nobody wants to pay him to be a high maintance prick to them. They would rather leave him marooned on the island than deal with him.
I am unaware of any female who has taken a single professional match off a male in SC2. Eve would indeed be the first to my knowledge, if she ever accomplishes that.
Flo gained some attention again when she took a game off iNcontroL in the fourth round of the losers' bracket of MLG Fall 2012, although she ultimately lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the tournament.
Like we said. A real pro gramer... Not a commentator/caster that refuses to give up his passion. (nothing wrong with that) If Incontrol status was dictate solely on results he wouldn't be on the team. That said he's a very valuable asset to the team and the community.
EPT
AZUBU_Eve![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/05CCM.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9j2E4.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mpGVG.png)
