On December 05 2012 06:55 Wroshe wrote: Sad state of affairs, lots of players losing homes now. Think that SaSe, STC and Illusion will be the first to get new homes.
I certainly hope so. Those are 3 players I would very much miss not seeing in tournaments.
@_@ Seems quite sudden to me. Their team house is not that old, and 3 players were just in Korea training... They'll be coming back, but man.. seems pretty fast on the flip to disband.
I feel really bad for State, first Vile now Quantic ;~; Hope he finds a new team if he decides to pursue gaming competitively after this.
I just saw an interview with the owner back at MLG Dallas and it seemed to be going well. Hmph. Kinda sad hit I do think there are too many teams around. Need those sponsor dollars focused in fewer places.
Heard about this earlier. It really sucks I feel bad for the Vile guys who have not been on 2 dead teams (as well as TheStC ofc) he should be well off though, maybe even an axiom pickup in the future . Best of luck to all the players it's really saddening to see but hopefully everyone will find a home.
This is ridiculously sudden. SaSe and Illusion being free is pretty big. As well as theSTC, Golden, and Apoc. The other quantic players are great too. Good luck to everyone. I wonder if EG will pick up Illusion like it seemed they would when Vile merged.
I was about to say I didn't see this coming, but I can definitely understand why they disbanded now. Their roster is really good, but they don't have any real top-tier players. It is always sad to see teams disband though.
I wonder if NaNi and SaSe will go on to a team together now
Hawk and State were both decent as well as quantic's big 3. Too bad. I wonder where illusion will go, seems to have so much potential but lacking in results.
On December 05 2012 06:55 packrat386 wrote: Thats crazy, they have so many successful players.
Define succes?
They have lots of good players. But never any REAL title contenders
I would say that TheSTC, Illusion, SaSe, and Golden are contenders for some of the smaller titles. Sure none of them is going to win a gsl, but they have gotten pretty far in mid level tournaments in the past.
On December 05 2012 07:01 Rescawen wrote: Letting naniwa go instead if kicking a bunch of useless players to keep him was probably a mistake
Is that what happened? I thought Naniwa left for personal reasons, his new sponsor is just travel and expenses no salary so even a low salary from Quantic would have been better.
I think Illusion is probably the most sought after out of the rest of the roster. He is a good NA Terran with korea training experience, plus he is really young, cant really think of any other players beside qxc and major, who is also teamless, that are good NA terrans.
wasn't quantic in some trouble before the merger with Vile? The two Google employees kinda saved the day there it seemed. Sad news for sure. Hope the players find new teams soon.
Sad and somewhat unexpected. We have too many teams. Partnerships are good, but I think if we could mix korean talent with foreign capital (teams with sponsors etc) then we could get some more stable things going.
Their roster was properly expansive in SC2, hoping the best for the seemingly free agents. I would be willing to bet STC will have a team within the month. Can't help but wonder if Vile might make a comeback ala Root with this news.
Who are Quantic's biggest sponsors? Did a sponsorship deal fall through or something?? It seems like some kind of major funding dried up or why would they close down everything...?
The backers behind quantic obviously put some major money into this to secure a team house, top class players like Illusion, SaSe, TheStC, Golden, and flew people to tournaments. They have however been relatively bad at finding sponsors and giving the sponsors they have exposure. I had to look up what sponsors Quantic have despite been quite familiar with them, and they only have the generic Twitch and Razer sponsorship which every serious team seems to have these days (possibly with Steelseries over Razer). To me it seems to have been run more like a clan than a business, and investors likely couldn't see a good ROI being likely. *
In any case I suspect this means EGTheStCRC as EG likely knew before, TheStC would fit their plans in proleague perfectly and they hinted at a new player in Korea.
SaSe, Illusion and Golden shouldn't have major problems finding a team either.
* EDIT: And apparently some weird vision sponsor I never heard about despite reading and hearing plenty interviews with Quantic players
That's a lot of talent gone. Granted they didn't really have an all star to help carry them (I wouldn't call TheSTC reliable), but there was a lot of talent that could've been trained up. What went wrong?
I wonder if this is just shedding some of the, what 24 players they had on the roster? I'm sure most of their upper tier players will find homes, but seems like they had a lot of dead weight at the bottom.
What sad news. Well I figure other teams will at least have bidding wars for the more well known players like TheSTC, SaSe, Golden, and Illusion. I figure Complexity wouldn't mind having any of them.
On December 05 2012 07:06 fireforce7 wrote: Teams disbanding and players quitting to lol left and right.
Frankly the bubble has burst, and now things are going to downsize. It sucks for those who are losing their teams but it was bound to happen eventually.
The retirements for LoL are because they can't be successful in sc2 or have lost passion for sc2, not because LoL is a better career path ( It's not unless you are in a huge team )
Knowing Crank is best friend with TheStC, and how awesome theStC is, wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Axiom. Sucks for the other players; hope Sase, Golden and Illusion find a good new home
the "pro" gamer scene is waaaaaay over-saturated. that's why things like this happen. there's no money and sponsors for all these wannabe teams and pro-gamers. it's a lot tougher to be a pro then just being a ladder hero. you have to win events and actually draw a return for you investors. you have to have truly competitive players that have enough visibility to gain and promote sponsors.
i expect a similar fate for some other teams. i didn't necessarily think quantic would be one of them but it's no suprise at all to me.
Maybe Illusion will finally go to EG now. Perhaps he was the one unconfirmed player on the roster in the EG-Liquid partnership? Best of luck to all the players!
On December 05 2012 07:09 PixelNite wrote: Knowing Crank is best friend with TheStC, and how awesome theStC is, wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Axiom. Sucks for the other players; hope Sase, Golden and Illusion find a good new home
I thought Axiom wasn't taking any new players, I believe I read somewhere that they wanted three by the end of the year and they already have Crank, Ryung and Miya.
Really bad news. The team had lots of young/new players in it. Who is going to take them or will we hear of a wave of migration to LoL and/or DotA + retirements? Players like SaSe and TheStC will have no problems, but those have not yet broken through to the publicity, what happens to them?
@Slasher Investors have pulled out from funding the team, players nor staff knew about this beforehand. Players in talks with other American teams.
Read this as infestors initally and became very confused.
Sad to see so many players suddenly without homes, especially guys who have had teams semi-recently disband on them, like Hawk, State, Illusion, and TheStC. Hopefully all players find teams soon.
On December 05 2012 07:11 TheCreature wrote: Maybe Illusion will finally go to EG now. Perhaps he was the one unconfirmed player on the roster in the EG-Liquid partnership? Best of luck to all the players!
I doubt it. This seems out of the blue. Not even the players knew about it until now.
On December 05 2012 07:09 PixelNite wrote: Knowing Crank is best friend with TheStC, and how awesome theStC is, wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Axiom. Sucks for the other players; hope Sase, Golden and Illusion find a good new home
I thought Axiom wasn't taking any new players, I believe I read somewhere that they wanted three by the end of the year and they already have Crank, Ryung and Miya.
Quantic's disband is a shock to everybody and wasn't expect. Some stuff cannot be planned, and TheStC fits the team so well. Cannot unsee
While these things are sad I view the potential larger picture as something good. If the international scene could have more teams with the depth/power/fame/etc. of a team like EG it would be amazing because then Foreign vs Korea could become something of a real contest rather than an invasion/domination.
What I mean is yes it is sad to see teams go but if the other teams can start developing a deeper roster because of it (acquiring the best, now teamless players) then I think we could be in for a treat.
With all of that said, a team of Quantic's magnitude disbanding is a little troubling.
Don't remember where he talked about this, maybe Roll Call or The Executives or some such thing, but the CEO always ran the team at a deficit supported by other jobs. With reduced sponsor money and the current outlook for Starcraft as an esport, I suppose the only option was disbanding.
...And people question why many StarCraft players have a hate for the League of Legends comunity. When I read this, I see only one reason for such a pull-out, they think they will get more advertising for thair buck, in LoL. Hence, Fuck League. ... ok maybe thats jumping the gun, but I love SC and this THIS is killing sc esports. (0 Sponsors =/= 0 esports)
On December 05 2012 07:14 NMRemorse wrote: ...And people question why many StarCraft players have a hate for the League of Legends comunity. When I read this, I see only one reason for such a pull-out, they think they will get more advertising for thair buck, in LoL. Hence, Fuck League. ... ok maybe thats jumping the gun, but I love SC and this THIS is killing sc esports. (0 Sponsors =/= 0 esports)
This has nothing to do with LoL man, they disbanded their LoL team too.
On December 05 2012 07:09 PixelNite wrote: Knowing Crank is best friend with TheStC, and how awesome theStC is, wouldn't be surprised to see him joining Axiom. Sucks for the other players; hope Sase, Golden and Illusion find a good new home
I thought Axiom wasn't taking any new players, I believe I read somewhere that they wanted three by the end of the year and they already have Crank, Ryung and Miya.
They also said they want to compete in team leagues. Three was probably the goal for this year, but the year is almost over.
On December 05 2012 07:14 NMRemorse wrote: ...And people question why many StarCraft players have a hate for the League of Legends comunity. When I read this, I see only one reason for such a pull-out, they think they will get more advertising for thair buck, in LoL. Hence, Fuck League. ... ok maybe thats jumping the gun, but I love SC and this THIS is killing sc esports. (0 Sponsors =/= 0 esports)
@Slasher Investors have pulled out from funding the team, players nor staff knew about this beforehand. Players in talks with other American teams.
Read this as infestors initally and became very confused.
Sad to see so many players suddenly without homes, especially guys who have had teams semi-recently disband on them, like Hawk, State, Illusion, and TheStC. Hopefully all players find teams soon.
On December 05 2012 07:14 NMRemorse wrote: ...And people question why many StarCraft players have a hate for the League of Legends comunity. When I read this, I see only one reason for such a pull-out, they think they will get more advertising for thair buck, in LoL. Hence, Fuck League. ... ok maybe thats jumping the gun, but I love SC and this THIS is killing sc esports. (0 Sponsors =/= 0 esports)
Theyre disbanding all parts of their team you stupid shit. There is no Quantic in SC2, LoL, Dota 2, or COD
On December 05 2012 07:14 NMRemorse wrote: ...And people question why many StarCraft players have a hate for the League of Legends comunity. When I read this, I see only one reason for such a pull-out, they think they will get more advertising for thair buck, in LoL. Hence, Fuck League. ... ok maybe thats jumping the gun, but I love SC and this THIS is killing sc esports. (0 Sponsors =/= 0 esports)
Quantic had a brand new lol team apparently
exactly. bring on a LoL team, investors back out. LoL is killing esports.
On December 05 2012 07:14 NMRemorse wrote: ...And people question why many StarCraft players have a hate for the League of Legends comunity. When I read this, I see only one reason for such a pull-out, they think they will get more advertising for thair buck, in LoL. Hence, Fuck League. ... ok maybe thats jumping the gun, but I love SC and this THIS is killing sc esports. (0 Sponsors =/= 0 esports)
While I enjoyed following a number of Quantic players, especially theSTC and Illusion, the team itself never seemed to really coalesce as a force to be reckoned with amongst pro teams, especially in terms of marketing image and relative popularity. I don't think the team had great exposure, and perhaps this was an inevitability of a scene that will go through both contractions and expansions. I hope the players find team homes if they wish to continue playing, perhaps their skills will be better utilized on other rosters.
That's a lot players... I hope they can find new home (some of them literally). Maddelisk joined them just few months ago, I hope she can find new one, as well as flo.
That was so sudden. Hopefully a lot of the players can find new teams but I'm somewhat skeptical on whether or not the amount of pro-gamers that Quantic funded can ALL really find teams. Hopefully they all end up somewhere just as good as quantic, if not better.
On December 05 2012 07:08 babylon wrote: But whyyyyyyyy. D:
Hope the players find a good home. (Wouldn't mind seeing TheStC or Sase on ST, for instance.)
Sase to a Korean team would be sick. ST_Sase has a nice ring to it.
Given that Sase's close with the ST peeps, I hope it happens.
Definitely, having spent all that time in the house I am sure the ties are there. I would also say some of the little Startale videos they did at IPL helped bring much more of a face to the team as a group relative to other Korean clubs. I am keeping my fingers crossed.
Sad news indeed. Really got used to having Quantic around. I guess that EG+Liquid news were so awesome that it had to be counterbalanced by something really bad happening.
wow thats ah hard hit. And really sad for everyone involved with quantic. Pretty evil from the sponsors, would be curious to know which products I should never buy again XD
On December 05 2012 07:08 babylon wrote: But whyyyyyyyy. D:
Hope the players find a good home. (Wouldn't mind seeing TheStC or Sase on ST, for instance.)
Sase to a Korean team would be sick. ST_Sase has a nice ring to it.
Given that Sase's close with the ST peeps, I hope it happens.
Startale already has better Protosses on their team, to whom they're probably paying much less salary than what Sase was making. Why would they want to add Sase?
On December 05 2012 07:18 Felvo wrote: That was so sudden. Hopefully a lot of the players can find new teams but I'm somewhat skeptical on whether or not the amount of pro-gamers that Quantic funded can ALL really find teams. Hopefully they all end up somewhere just as good as quantic, if not better.
If I can speak realistically I would say only half of them will find new teams willing to pay them a salary, at most. More likely only 6 or so of them will, the rest will " retire " or go to a team that pays no salary
I mean, just look at all the ex-Slayers players, they are really good and have been in GSL forever ( yugioh ) and they can't find teams.
On December 05 2012 07:08 babylon wrote: But whyyyyyyyy. D:
Hope the players find a good home. (Wouldn't mind seeing TheStC or Sase on ST, for instance.)
Sase to a Korean team would be sick. ST_Sase has a nice ring to it.
Given that Sase's close with the ST peeps, I hope it happens.
Startale already has better Protosses on their team, to whom they're probably paying much less salary than what Sase was making. Why would they want to add Sase?
That really ducks I enjoyed that the team was around to offer a more competitive edge to the foreign scene . Seems about right that the players mentioned would be sase illusion and thestc. I think thestc is a good acquisition in terms of having a consistent Terrain for any team., the others I'm not sure lately so we ail have to see. Also at this stage in the game I don't think EG or Liquid would pick up these players but that's my 2 cents
On December 05 2012 07:08 babylon wrote: But whyyyyyyyy. D:
Hope the players find a good home. (Wouldn't mind seeing TheStC or Sase on ST, for instance.)
Sase to a Korean team would be sick. ST_Sase has a nice ring to it.
Given that Sase's close with the ST peeps, I hope it happens.
Startale already has better Protosses on their team, to whom they're probably paying much less salary than what Sase was making. Why would they want to add Sase?
For the foreign appeal. If they want exposure and interest internationally, then SaSe can provide this. Personally I don't believe that Startale will acquire SaSe, but the idea is not ridiculous especially as SaSe may be open to taking a bit of a hit to his salary to represent and train with Startale.
On December 05 2012 07:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Dafuq, can are sponsors even allowed to pull out short term? Don't they have midterm obligations or contracts with the team?
On December 05 2012 07:08 babylon wrote: But whyyyyyyyy. D:
Hope the players find a good home. (Wouldn't mind seeing TheStC or Sase on ST, for instance.)
Sase to a Korean team would be sick. ST_Sase has a nice ring to it.
Given that Sase's close with the ST peeps, I hope it happens.
Startale already has better Protosses on their team, to whom they're probably paying much less salary than what Sase was making. Why would they want to add Sase?
I think they would be willing to take on SaSe, but SaSe would have to take a huge cut in pay/benefits. With how low those probably already were don't think the situation is ideal for SaSe. Though it would be really cool to see ST_SaSe
Sad news, but perhaps the silver lining would be the other NA teams can boost their ranks (Itsgosu,I7,Light)...im pretty sure i read Light was looking for players, though it would be weird for Golden to go back
On December 05 2012 07:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Dafuq, can are sponsors even allowed to pull out short term? Don't they have midterm obligations or contracts with the team?
Maybe its an annual sponsorship and their sponsors decided not to renew in 2012. Presumably their lease is also annual. Anyway sucks for flo
On December 05 2012 07:08 babylon wrote: But whyyyyyyyy. D:
Hope the players find a good home. (Wouldn't mind seeing TheStC or Sase on ST, for instance.)
Sase to a Korean team would be sick. ST_Sase has a nice ring to it.
Given that Sase's close with the ST peeps, I hope it happens.
Startale already has better Protosses on their team, to whom they're probably paying much less salary than what Sase was making. Why would they want to add Sase?
For the foreign appeal. If they want exposure and interest internationally, then SaSe can provide this. Personally I don't believe that Startale will acquire SaSe, but the idea is not ridiculous especially as SaSe may be open to taking a bit of a hit to his salary to represent and train with Startale.
I can't imagine anyone who isn't already a fan of Startale would become one because of Sase.
On December 05 2012 07:08 babylon wrote: But whyyyyyyyy. D:
Hope the players find a good home. (Wouldn't mind seeing TheStC or Sase on ST, for instance.)
Sase to a Korean team would be sick. ST_Sase has a nice ring to it.
Given that Sase's close with the ST peeps, I hope it happens.
Startale already has better Protosses on their team, to whom they're probably paying much less salary than what Sase was making. Why would they want to add Sase?
To increase foreign interest? I don't see it happening but the potential gains are there. Of course Sase hasn't done anything noteworthy in awhile so probably not.
Been waiting for this to happen tbh...not sure about their other squads but the sc2 roster had been quite bloated for awhile. I'm sure they weren't paying everyone but still, they were clearly spending a lot of money and getting very little return...no results and no marketing is not going to make sponsors happy.
Here's hoping the truly dedicated players find a new home, and the ones who were never going to win anything realize it and move on to something more rewarding.
Makes sense. Just listening to things the owner would say in talk shows and interviews showed that he was a bit out of touch with how to properly manage a team.
On December 05 2012 07:10 Epoch wrote: the "pro" gamer scene is waaaaaay over-saturated. that's why things like this happen. there's no money and sponsors for all these wannabe teams and pro-gamers. it's a lot tougher to be a pro then just being a ladder hero. you have to win events and actually draw a return for you investors. you have to have truly competitive players that have enough visibility to gain and promote sponsors.
i expect a similar fate for some other teams. i didn't necessarily think quantic would be one of them but it's no suprise at all to me.
gl to all the ex-quantic members
Yeah you're exactly right. Sponsors jumped on board because they saw how quickly SC2 was rising. They were willing to make an investment into a scene which could give good returns later on. However SC2 has more or less stalled, so companies are moving on to bigger and better things. Big teams like Liquid and EG will always be fine, but plenty of the smaller teams/players/tournament are going to end up dying off.
I hope Sase gets picked up somewhere. I feel he is one of the better foreigners, maybe Liquid? If ST does pick him up, it would be great for him. I just hope for him to find a team ASAP.
When you think about it, this was sort of obvious. For a team of Quantic's size and caliber they weren't very active commercially. EG and TL always seem to have some event going on while Quantic was virtually non-existent.
Damn, what a disappointment, I really was looking forward to some Quantic players making a splash on the scene. Wish the best for the ex-Quantic members, and they find teams soon.
What a surprise that there was no money for a low tier team (save 3.) team was way too big to fund anyway and not interesting. I suspect this wont be the only team going under.
whattt......... weird to say that first, but... omg they had the best red-color uniforms with white cirlcish logo, gonna miss them so much. hope they all find new teams soon! gl to all, very sad...
wow... so the sponsors pulled the plug unexpectedly it looks like. That's really sad. Quantic always seemed like a well run organization. Lot's of strong players available now like Golden, TheSTC, Illusion, and Sase. They will probably get picked up pretty quickly.
On December 05 2012 07:10 Epoch wrote: the "pro" gamer scene is waaaaaay over-saturated. that's why things like this happen. there's no money and sponsors for all these wannabe teams and pro-gamers. it's a lot tougher to be a pro then just being a ladder hero. you have to win events and actually draw a return for you investors. you have to have truly competitive players that have enough visibility to gain and promote sponsors.
i expect a similar fate for some other teams. i didn't necessarily think quantic would be one of them but it's no suprise at all to me.
gl to all the ex-quantic members
Yeah you're exactly right. Sponsors jumped on board because they saw how quickly SC2 was rising. They were willing to make an investment into a scene which could give good returns later on. However SC2 has more or less stalled, so companies are moving on to bigger and better things. Big teams like Liquid and EG will always be fine, but plenty of the smaller teams/players/tournament are going to end up dying off.
I would hardly count Quantic as a small team. They are as old as Liquid, although they started from being a BF3 team. They field players in multiple games so it's not only about SC2 too.
This is really too bad, especially since theognis was starting to gain some traction... I can only assume he'll be looked over as a no-name, when he's really, really good. Hopefully he'll get picked up, but I have to say my hopes aren't exactly super high.
Also sucks for theSTC, to finally have gotten on a foreigner team to have it disband so quickly...
Finally, I hope Mark Ferraz is doing ok, as head of Quantic Gaming. Hopefully he'll still be a part of Climbing the Ladder on ChanmanV's show, but... well, I'm not sure.
On December 05 2012 07:26 Kompicek wrote: Mousesports Sase please!
I must say that's a really good idea.
well he was on the mouz wc3 team for a long time.
I don't know how well mouz is doing financially though. I expected them to get new players ever since Thorzain left and the only new player is protosser, who isn't a top player by any means.
I think it's kind of humorous in hindsight, that the boss of Quantic was saying after they ended their relationship with IM, that IM was a great team but they didn't understand the business side very well. :p
On December 05 2012 07:41 sitromit wrote: I think it's kind of humorous in hindsight, that the boss of Quantic was saying after they ended their relationship with IM, that IM was a great team but they didn't understand the business side very well. :p
Oh wow I remember that, some seriously sketchy stuff went down here I'm sure. All the players had no idea this was coming, horrible.
Too bad Quantic is dead, best wishes that SaSe, TheStC, Illusion, Flo and of course MaximusBlack find a new team that can give them the best possible options and offer them what they need.
On December 05 2012 07:37 btx0 wrote: Slasher's tweet says the investors pulled out while a lot of posts here say it's the sponsors, what is it?
Same thing? ultimately, the money that supported the team pulled out.
Uhm, no? Well the result is the same but apart form that... The investors are (part) owners of the team, if they pulled out it means their investment isn't paying off. The sponsors pulling out could have a lot of reasons. Of course investors and sponsors can overlap as well.
On December 05 2012 07:41 sitromit wrote: I think it's kind of humorous in hindsight, that the boss of Quantic was saying after they ended their relationship with IM, that IM was a great team but they didn't understand the business side very well. :p
I guess you could call it humorous, but I don't think so.
IM got their sponsorship because of Nestea and Mvp being who they are, not because the coach is a marketing genius.
In the end the team who deserved it the most got the biggest sponsors, so I guess that's cool. The only better sponsored team ( besides kespa ) is EG.
Mvp winning IEM Cologne and doing the marketing stuff at Gamescom is probably worth an entire year of whatever marketing Quantic could have done with all of their players.
On December 05 2012 07:37 btx0 wrote: Slasher's tweet says the investors pulled out while a lot of posts here say it's the sponsors, what is it?
Same thing? ultimately, the money that supported the team pulled out.
Uhm, no? Well the result is the same but apart form that... The investors are (part) owners of the team, if they pulled out it means their investment isn't paying off. The sponsors pulling out could have a lot of reasons. Of course investors and sponsors can overlap as well.
The investors seems like a more likely suspect for something like this coming out of nowhere. If it was a sponsor you'd expect them to go out with a bit more of a fight.
On December 05 2012 07:41 sitromit wrote: I think it's kind of humorous in hindsight, that the boss of Quantic was saying after they ended their relationship with IM, that IM was a great team but they didn't understand the business side very well. :p
I guess you could call it humorous, but I don't think so.
IM got their sponsorship because of Nestea and Mvp being who they are, not because the coach is a marketing genius.
In the end the team who deserved it the most got the biggest sponsors, so I guess that's cool. The only better sponsored team ( besides kespa ) is EG.
Mvp winning IEM Cologne and doing the marketing stuff at Gamescom is probably worth an entire year of whatever marketing Quantic could have done with all of their players.
On December 05 2012 07:45 BroER wrote: Very sad news I hope that Illusion, TheStC and Spanishiwa are going to find new team as soon as possible! (and ofc the rest of the players too)
Is Spanishwa still playing? I haven't seen his stream in forever.
On December 05 2012 07:41 sitromit wrote: I think it's kind of humorous in hindsight, that the boss of Quantic was saying after they ended their relationship with IM, that IM was a great team but they didn't understand the business side very well. :p
I guess you could call it humorous, but I don't think so.
IM got their sponsorship because of Nestea and Mvp being who they are, not because the coach is a marketing genius.
In the end the team who deserved it the most got the biggest sponsors, so I guess that's cool. The only better sponsored team ( besides kespa ) is EG.
Mvp winning IEM Cologne and doing the marketing stuff at Gamescom is probably worth an entire year of whatever marketing Quantic could have done with all of their players.
IM Coach got em LG though
Yes the IM coach secured the deal, but like I said It's not because he is a marketing genius but instead because he is able to use Nestea and Mvp to get the sponsors.
On December 05 2012 07:41 sitromit wrote: I think it's kind of humorous in hindsight, that the boss of Quantic was saying after they ended their relationship with IM, that IM was a great team but they didn't understand the business side very well. :p
I guess you could call it humorous, but I don't think so.
IM got their sponsorship because of Nestea and Mvp being who they are, not because the coach is a marketing genius.
In the end the team who deserved it the most got the biggest sponsors, so I guess that's cool. The only better sponsored team ( besides kespa ) is EG.
Mvp winning IEM Cologne and doing the marketing stuff at Gamescom is probably worth an entire year of whatever marketing Quantic could have done with all of their players.
IM Coach got em LG though
Yes the IM coach secured the deal, but like I said It's not because he is a marketing genius but instead because he is able to use Nestea and Mvp to get the sponsors.
Maybe Nestea and Mvp was part of his plans?
Ie: Train these players to be the best and then use em to get sponsorship.
Did somebody tell StarTale yet? No more "StarTaleQ". And I believe there are Quantic players staying in Korea at the StarTale house at the moment? Think I saw a recent tweet from QuanticState...
Here it is:
Ryan Visbeck @QuanticState @ST_PartinG hopefully everyone comes back soon, the house is so empty! 2:04 AM - 4 Dez 12 · Details
Hope they already have their return flight tickets...
On December 05 2012 07:40 ClairvoyanceSC2 wrote: I don't understand why they disbanded... Team house Successful players, golden, stc, illusion, state, etc. Worked with startale house in korea...
It's not the SC2 team that disbands, but the whole Quantic Gaming organization. There was nothing wrong with their SC2 department.
On December 05 2012 07:41 sitromit wrote: I think it's kind of humorous in hindsight, that the boss of Quantic was saying after they ended their relationship with IM, that IM was a great team but they didn't understand the business side very well. :p
I guess you could call it humorous, but I don't think so.
IM got their sponsorship because of Nestea and Mvp being who they are, not because the coach is a marketing genius.
In the end the team who deserved it the most got the biggest sponsors, so I guess that's cool. The only better sponsored team ( besides kespa ) is EG.
Mvp winning IEM Cologne and doing the marketing stuff at Gamescom is probably worth an entire year of whatever marketing Quantic could have done with all of their players.
IM Coach got em LG though
Yes the IM coach secured the deal, but like I said It's not because he is a marketing genius but instead because he is able to use Nestea and Mvp to get the sponsors.
Maybe Nestea and Mvp was part of his plans?
Ie: Train these players to be the best and then use em to get sponsorship.
Right, he's a genius at coaching his players and making them into the best, not at marketing.
Maybe he's both, who knows ^^ the guy is awesome either way, the players thank him and his wife in every interview.
On December 05 2012 06:55 packrat386 wrote: Thats crazy, they have so many successful players.
Define succes?
They have lots of good players. But never any REAL title contenders
STC? Apocalypse? Illusion? cmon man, even State?
none of them are title contenders, SaSe could've be considered as title contender since he was top 4 at DH and MLG this summer. But even that is arguable. He got 2nd and won a chinese event, but I dont really consider them international titles.
On December 05 2012 06:55 packrat386 wrote: Thats crazy, they have so many successful players.
Define succes?
They have lots of good players. But never any REAL title contenders
STC? Apocalypse? Illusion? cmon man, even State?
none of them are title contenders, SaSe could've be considered as title contender since he was top 4 at DH, MLG and WCS EU this summer. But even that is arguable.
Didn't WCS EU not have a single Swedish rep sent to the World Finals? Think you mean WCS Sweden?
It'll be interesting to see where all these players go, there are a ton of them. I imagine some of them might be done, StC, SaSe, Golden, and Illusion will probably find homes on high profile teams. The rest, I dunno... does ROOT have any spots open? They'd be an NA team looking for up and coming talent which Quantic seemed quite invested in as well.
On December 05 2012 06:55 packrat386 wrote: Thats crazy, they have so many successful players.
Define succes?
They have lots of good players. But never any REAL title contenders
STC? Apocalypse? Illusion? cmon man, even State?
none of them are title contenders, SaSe could've be considered as title contender since he was top 4 at DH, MLG and WCS EU this summer. But even that is arguable.
Didn't WCS EU not have a single Swedish rep sent to the World Finals? Think you mean WCS Sweden?
There was something about Quantic that was never right with me. First of all, did they always argue with EG on twitter? I feel like they were prob more worried with maintaining popularity and keeping the top tier end up than with getting better, but thats what happens when you lose a player like Naniwa. The world is their oyster, they live in the most beautiful state in the U.S. its always sunny, eSports is all around them. They should hopefully work together and help each other out and learn from their mistakes. Learn to recognize the faults in a team. Anyone can put millions of dollars into a pro team but not everyone can make the best of those millions. Im sure there are players that are way better than Naniwa out there that dont even know eSports exists.
I always root for the home team, always, and I rooted for Quantic. Cheers mates, best of luck, and team disbanding party at my house.
On December 05 2012 07:43 RaelSan wrote: I really fear Complexity will be the next to fall : /
highly unlikely, coL's been in the business too long to get randomly wiped out. Lake knows what he's doing.
This.
coL has been around since early 2000, like 10 years now or something? They were once the top cs 1.6 team worldwide, when I hear "coL" I automatically think counter-strike, and players like fRoD, storm, etc. Their manager/owner Jason Lake has been in the business for forever it seems.
On December 05 2012 06:55 packrat386 wrote: Thats crazy, they have so many successful players.
Define succes?
They have lots of good players. But never any REAL title contenders
STC? Apocalypse? Illusion? cmon man, even State?
none of them are title contenders, SaSe could've be considered as title contender since he was top 4 at DH, MLG and WCS EU this summer. But even that is arguable.
Didn't WCS EU not have a single Swedish rep sent to the World Finals? Think you mean WCS Sweden?
On December 05 2012 06:55 packrat386 wrote: Thats crazy, they have so many successful players.
Define succes?
They have lots of good players. But never any REAL title contenders
STC? Apocalypse? Illusion? cmon man, even State?
none of them are title contenders, SaSe could've be considered as title contender since he was top 4 at DH, MLG and WCS EU this summer. But even that is arguable.
Didn't WCS EU not have a single Swedish rep sent to the World Finals? Think you mean WCS Sweden?
More serious note: Kind of predictable considering how they had such a huge roster, yet barely ever showing results and none were incredibly popular... Sad day for esports.
Good luck to the team. Never give up on the dream. This is merely a loose seam.
Honestly, these players should just pick a team. Any team. They are in america. Build something. Put some money into the other teams that dont get as much attention.
Wtf.... First Slayers, my second favorite korean team, now Quantic, my favorite NA team. This sucks so bad. I loved the team and many of the players. I hope the players can quickly find a new team. Hopefully a few new additions to Team MJ and Axiom!
On December 05 2012 08:15 acgFork wrote: Shudnt've kicked NaNi.
More serious note: Kind of predictable considering how they had such a huge roster, yet barely ever showing results and none were incredibly popular... Sad day for esports.
Good luck to the team. Never give up on the dream. This is merely a loose seam.
First, Nani left (and on good terms), he wasn't kicked. Second. As all their teams disband, it is more than just the result of one Sc2 player.
On December 05 2012 06:55 packrat386 wrote: Thats crazy, they have so many successful players.
Define succes?
They have lots of good players. But never any REAL title contenders
STC? Apocalypse? Illusion? cmon man, even State?
none of them are title contenders, SaSe could've be considered as title contender since he was top 4 at DH and MLG this summer. But even that is arguable. He got 2nd and won a chinese event, but I dont really consider them international titles.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
You need to have players who people care enough about to listen when they give an interview first.
On December 05 2012 06:55 packrat386 wrote: Thats crazy, they have so many successful players.
Define succes?
They have lots of good players. But never any REAL title contenders
STC? Apocalypse? Illusion? cmon man, even State?
none of them are title contenders, SaSe could've be considered as title contender since he was top 4 at DH and MLG this summer. But even that is arguable. He got 2nd and won a chinese event, but I dont really consider them international titles.
SaSe a contender but not TheSTC? lol...
To be honest: I don't even think sponsors looked at tournament results. They more look at esports as a whole and decided it wasn't worth their money. And that is bad news for esports.
(Sponsors knew the roster before they invested, they knew these players wouldn't go on a tournament winning spree - so winning was never the big point for them)
I think it is because the real buying decision is made upon reading tests or by the price of the product, but not if the company is in esports. Companys acknowledge that. Basically it's our fault
On December 05 2012 08:04 ShatterZer0 wrote: What in the hell?
Short sighted investors just dealt a crippling blow to the NA scene.
This hurts...
Theognis, Illusion, QXC, and flo T.T
TheSTC must feel like absolute shit too...
Hell.. even State and Apoc...
Time to go pro in chess now that I'm teamless.
Humor aside, this is perhaps the REAL reason Quantic went under. Not a clear enough brand recognition.
I, myself, was thrown off by the first Tweet linked in the OP from col_lake. And when I went to go Googling for Quantic's sponsors, I actually typed in "Complexity gaming jersey" and was super confused as to why I couldn't find the bright red Quantic jersey.
Case in point: I had confused Complexity and Quantic in my mind. And I couldn't even remember who their sponsors were. If fans don't even know who the sponsors are, you KNOW that you have a huge, potentially and imminently catastrophic business problem.
For teams like TL and EG, they're doing their marketing well, but even then it's hard to make sure fans are attached to the brand names of their sponsors.
TL - The Little App factory (probably only iOS apps?), Razer, and now Twitch EG - Steelseries, Intel Extreme boards, Monster, Raid Call (title sponsor), Sapphire, and that's about as far as my memory goes. And I've watched COUNTLESS EG interviews
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
I hope you know FXO's main sponsor too.
But yeah, I don't know any except the ones you mentioned + Fnatic.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
I hope you know FXO's main sponsor too.
But yeah, I don't know any except the ones you mentioned + Fnatic.
On December 05 2012 06:55 packrat386 wrote: Thats crazy, they have so many successful players.
Define succes?
They have lots of good players. But never any REAL title contenders
STC? Apocalypse? Illusion? cmon man, even State?
none of them are title contenders, SaSe could've be considered as title contender since he was top 4 at DH and MLG this summer. But even that is arguable. He got 2nd and won a chinese event, but I dont really consider them international titles.
SaSe a contender but not TheSTC? lol...
SaSe has better results in 2012 than TheSTC, both of them have respectively finished 4th at DH and MLG circuit stops, but SaSe got 2nd at Red Bull Lan and won some random chinese tournaments.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
I hope you know FXO's main sponsor too.
But yeah, I don't know any except the ones you mentioned + Fnatic.
Yeah, the shoutout to sponsors has to be almost annoying. There is a reason that Incontrol always mentions every sponsor and in interviews of TL players they always thank their sponsors. It is tiresome for consumers but necessary to leave an impression. I ust looked up Quantic sponsors and for one they weren't many (Razer, Twitch and DBVision) and I had no clue they were involved with Quantic. If I hear Twitch and Razer I think primarily of Liquid and maybe MVP and I have literally never heard of DBVision before.
Still sad though, I liked alot of their players.
Also, they are still in the running for EG MCSL and if they beat rox-kis, they can still advance to the playoffs if Liquidpedia is to be trusted, I hope this will work out just like the Slayers situation (given that they advance).
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
This sucks, but people going all doom and gloom on the future of SC2 isn't particularly helpful nor relevant. Maybe if they were just downsizing the SC2 squad, to make more room for the LoL side of things, or something like that. They didn't. They took away funding for the entire thing. This is not an SC2 thing, this is a Quantic investor thing.
On December 05 2012 06:55 Wroshe wrote: Sad state of affairs, lots of players losing homes now. Think that SaSe, STC and Illusion will be the first to get new homes.
Agreed. I feel bad for theSTC though; first oGs, now Quantic... guy has had it rough
On December 05 2012 08:50 Nimic wrote: This sucks, but people going all doom and gloom on the future of SC2 isn't particularly helpful nor relevant. Maybe if they were just downsizing the SC2 squad, to make more room for the LoL side of things, or something like that. They didn't. They took away funding for the entire thing. This is not an SC2 thing, this is a Quantic investor thing.
It is not an investor thing, it's just a lack of growth. Don't make drama where this is none... please.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Really you don't know Fanatic - Raidcall?
but yeah its true, teams need to make players spread sponsors more. Hell, when I was in a clan with a minor sponsor, I was pasting it in every game I won. Root - Das keyboards? I thought col. made a sponsor obvious too, soundheiser or something?
Such a shame but it was expected. I don't know about there other gaming divisions but their SC2 division was just not providing results, it was not like they were the smallest of teams.
sTc, sase and golden are probably the most valued 'free agents'. Illusion is praised for his potential so he might be picked up fairly fast too.
Sad day. I will remember the team for Naniwa and Sase in their bright orange jersey tearing up tournaments.
I do believe smaller teams need to step up their game sponsor exposure wise. Funny, just happened to me a day ago. My friend needed help with what mouse to chose. He found a steelseries and an other mouse equally good but couldn't decide between them. I instinctively said to him to go with steelseries. I don't know why, maybe because of those EG interviews.
On December 05 2012 08:50 Nimic wrote: This sucks, but people going all doom and gloom on the future of SC2 isn't particularly helpful nor relevant. Maybe if they were just downsizing the SC2 squad, to make more room for the LoL side of things, or something like that. They didn't. They took away funding for the entire thing. This is not an SC2 thing, this is a Quantic investor thing.
It is not an investor thing, it's just a lack of growth. Don't make drama where this is none... please.
I'm not making drama, I'm trying to avoid drama, if you read my post. What else am I supposed to call it when people talk about the investors pulling out, but an investor thing? If it's completely false, you guys need to come out and properly inform us. It's the only way to stop speculation.
Otherwise, yes, people are going to discuss the ramifications of the abrupt disbanding of one of their (and mine) favourite teams.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
It's not EG's fault so many teams do such a HORRIBLE job of promoting their sponsors. So often I have to hear the interviewer remind players to shoutout their sponsors and half the time they just say "thanks to my sponsors" without naming them so we have no idea who they are.
It should be at the top of every player contract that they have to bring up their sponsors' names every time they do an interview or else they get fined.
Fair point Zzoram. To be honest, I'm not sure I could mention any sponsors from a team that isn't one of TL, IM, EG or FXO (only one though ). I mean, I could probably list five or six of EGs, though half of them might not be their sponsors anymore.
On December 05 2012 08:04 ShatterZer0 wrote: What in the hell?
Short sighted investors just dealt a crippling blow to the NA scene.
This hurts...
Theognis, Illusion, QXC, and flo T.T
TheSTC must feel like absolute shit too...
Hell.. even State and Apoc...
Time to go pro in chess now that I'm teamless.
NO GOD NO. WHY NO T.T
FML. It's times like these that I wish I were rich...
You know he was kidding right? QxC is on complexity.
Are you... CholeraSC in disguise?
EDIT: I was a mega CholeraSC fanboy when I was a kid... I would load up youtube vids on dial up for hours and then come home from school and watch them...
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors. EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
Hopefully most of the players find a home. Flo is a "go-to" example for when females tell me they just "can't be good at games." And I picked illusion to qualify for GSL Code-S eventually so he better not disappoint!
Best of luck to their players but this is kind of a "oh well" situation for me. Was never really a big fan of the team and the way they ran it.
To give an examples, The Quantic and IM partnership, basically their coming out party for SC2 was a big time flop. They went ahead and bought Naniwa from coL only to let him walk away.
This news is absolutely depressing I hope that all the players on Quantic find teams to pick them up! It also saddens me when players like Flo contemplate giving up their dream because of incidents like this!
Honestly i believe he didn't know how to operate a team, he picked up so many players and put them all in so many payrolls like.. come on, no other team has a bigger player base then what Quantic had. You can tell he was struggling and he shouldve cut players and based Quantic around a couple people. Why let go of everyone and keep Illusion, Sase and work around them? Just very bad, just not trying to sound really mean but he did a awful job.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
I read sources that Quantic started off well off as well. Perhaps not rich, but good enough to sign major players and form an immediate alliance with IM, and subsequently Startale. They also picked up vile and recently established an LoL team. They had resources and this situation implies the lack of proper management and troubled decision making.
Just because you have money and start off well doesn't mean your organization will automatically run smoothly/efficiently and sponsors will come rolling in. We've seen why EG is so successful time and time again, and its not simply because they have resources. EG's success shouldn't be a big secret, they market their brand and their players incredibly well, actively engage in mutually benefit activities with their sponsors thereby strengthening relationship, provide high quality content for the community to enjoy. Additionally, they are involved with just about every major starcraft 2 event whether its having casters (iNcontroL), high level players in attendance (Stephano, thorzain, idra etc), media coverage (Anna), sponsorships (barcrafts), and article reviews/previews of events.
edit: saw your edit and realized that your post was probably a joke. However, my post relates to my thoughts on quantic so i'll leave them.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors. EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
Yeah. I watch a lot of SC2 and I can tell you some of the sponsors of few teams. EG (Steelseries, Intel, Monster, Raidcall, Bigfootnetworks, Kingston), Teamliquid (The Little App Factory, Razer, twitch), complexity (Gamma labs, Creative Soundblaster, PNY, Origin), IM (LG, Googims), Startale (Red Bull), TSL (Handsome Nerd), Acer (Acer), Naniwa (Mionix), WhiteRa (TT esports). ROOT has twitch I think and Dignitas might have Intel. I don't know any other sponsor for a team and I certainly would not have been able to tell you a single sponsor of Quantic before they disbanded.
I'm based in North America so that probably creates a bias which causes me to know more NA team sponsors than EU sponsors. But still, if players don't pimp out their sponsors like crazy (EG, while I dislike the team, does a fantastic job at this) then I can only see more teams folding like Quantic.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
On December 05 2012 09:39 darkness wrote: Such a shame, I remember their co-operation with... was it IM-MVP's team? It was definitely a good Korean team.
Yeah it was Incredible Miracle, it didn't last long.
On December 05 2012 09:39 darkness wrote: Such a shame, I remember their co-operation with... was it IM-MVP's team? It was definitely a good Korean team.
This is the problem with investor-based teams; once investors pull out, they immediately crumble. The model might allow for very fast expansion into something big, but it is extremely volatile. The economic model of the traditional teams such as EG, Fnatic, mouz, Dignitas, complexity, SK Gaming and Millenium is what aspiring teams should look up to.
I'd really like to hear what their CEO has to say. I always saw him as being very business savvy, so I'd like to see what went wrong for him.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
On December 05 2012 09:45 Sc2Corpse wrote: Really makes me wonder how unstable E Sports is.
Did you think it was stable? Esports is a tiny little community that's just trying to survive. If I had a kid I'd tell him/her to never get involved as a player let alone start or manage a team. It's almost never worth it.
How is this possible? Weren't they like the 2nd biggest team in NA? They even had a huge team house and everything. And their players were doing pretty good...
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
Imagine: The hottest girl of, what was it, 2010? Starts hanging out and telling everyone to buy your tshirts. What happens?
On December 05 2012 09:44 Dodgin wrote: They later got one with Startale that lasted a lot longer, but was more like " Startale will let Sase stay at their place " and nothing else.
That's not exactly true, other Quantic members, including State and Illusion went to stay at the StarTale House.
On December 05 2012 09:44 Dodgin wrote: They later got one with Startale that lasted a lot longer, but was more like " Startale will let Sase stay at their place " and nothing else.
That's not exactly true, other Quantic members, including State and Illusion went to stay at the StarTale House.
I forgot about Illusion, I remember he just got back from Korea recently actually.
But yeah, Naniwa before he left, Sase and Illusion are the ones I knew of.
I was more talking about Quantic didn't do much for Startale ( as far as I know... ) but Startale let those guys hang out at their place, they never competed in team leagues together or anything I don't think? And It's not like Startale players were mentioning their team as StarTaleQ or anything like that at international events.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
Hi my name is Jessica, I'm famous in Korea and run a SC2 team.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
I loved all the support they gave to so many NA players... so many now don't have homes and many may not find one. Or even if they do, I'm sure most will not find one that will support them as well. Maybe a few will get picked up by big teams like EG or Liquid, but I can only see things getting worse for most.
I was also looking forward to seeing Flo improve over time, but again... I question if she will find a new supportive team where she can focus solely on playing.
On December 05 2012 09:49 Fluid wrote: How is this possible? Weren't they like the 2nd biggest team in NA? They even had a huge team house and everything. And their players were doing pretty good...
Damn, this is so depressing...
Because they were apparently 100% reliant on investor funding... It doesn't really matter much if you have a ton of non-guaranteed money that isn't really yours.
Everyone likes to shit on EG, but in the end they are one of the few foreign teams, along with Liquid that can actually offer stable conditions for players.
I think Quantic just got too big for it's own good but I guess no one really knows except those directly involved.
On December 05 2012 09:49 Fluid wrote: How is this possible? Weren't they like the 2nd biggest team in NA? They even had a huge team house and everything. And their players were doing pretty good...
Damn, this is so depressing...
Because they were apparently 100% reliant on investor funding... It doesn't really matter much if you have a ton of non-guaranteed money that isn't really yours.
Everyone likes to shit on EG, but in the end they are one of the few foreign teams, along with Liquid that can actually offer stable conditions for players.
I think Quantic just got too big for it's own good but I guess no one really knows except those directly involved.
But then how did they get the money to use that huge team house? Did the ceo just blindly accept to rent a huge house without knowing if their investors would pay them the next month? What kind of business rationale is that?
On December 05 2012 09:49 Fluid wrote: How is this possible? Weren't they like the 2nd biggest team in NA? They even had a huge team house and everything. And their players were doing pretty good...
Damn, this is so depressing...
Because they were apparently 100% reliant on investor funding... It doesn't really matter much if you have a ton of non-guaranteed money that isn't really yours.
Everyone likes to shit on EG, but in the end they are one of the few foreign teams, along with Liquid that can actually offer stable conditions for players.
I think Quantic just got too big for it's own good but I guess no one really knows except those directly involved.
But then how did they get the money to use that huge team house? Did the ceo just blindly accept to rent a huge house without knowing if their investors would pay them the next month? What kind of business rationale is that?
By the sound of things that's exactly what happened... Are you really surprised by this point though? We've seen numerous teams fail, most of them were headed by guys with little to no business experience or education. Lots of people jumped on the opportunities that SC2 presented based on ambition alone. SC2 bubble has burst and the NA scene is especially weak on a global scale.
On December 05 2012 09:49 Fluid wrote: How is this possible? Weren't they like the 2nd biggest team in NA? They even had a huge team house and everything. And their players were doing pretty good...
Damn, this is so depressing...
Because they were apparently 100% reliant on investor funding... It doesn't really matter much if you have a ton of non-guaranteed money that isn't really yours.
Everyone likes to shit on EG, but in the end they are one of the few foreign teams, along with Liquid that can actually offer stable conditions for players.
I think Quantic just got too big for it's own good but I guess no one really knows except those directly involved.
But then how did they get the money to use that huge team house? Did the ceo just blindly accept to rent a huge house without knowing if their investors would pay them the next month? What kind of business rationale is that?
If SirScoots was right some months back it was payed by the college funds from the owners kids, but who knows
Yikes, to get it like this: with investors suddenly pulling out without a warning to anyone, must be hard. It's like your fiance of 3 years breaking up with you over a text from her boyfriend's house in France.
Hope all the (ex)Quantic players can find a new team, feel for them.
On December 05 2012 09:49 Fluid wrote: How is this possible? Weren't they like the 2nd biggest team in NA? They even had a huge team house and everything. And their players were doing pretty good...
Damn, this is so depressing...
Because they were apparently 100% reliant on investor funding... It doesn't really matter much if you have a ton of non-guaranteed money that isn't really yours.
Everyone likes to shit on EG, but in the end they are one of the few foreign teams, along with Liquid that can actually offer stable conditions for players.
I think Quantic just got too big for it's own good but I guess no one really knows except those directly involved.
But then how did they get the money to use that huge team house? Did the ceo just blindly accept to rent a huge house without knowing if their investors would pay them the next month? What kind of business rationale is that?
By the sound of things that's exactly what happened... Are you really surprised by this point though? We've seen numerous teams fail, most of them were headed by guys with little to no business experience or education. Lots of people jumped on the opportunities that SC2 presented based on ambition alone. SC2 bubble has burst and the NA scene is especially weak on a global scale.
It's true that the team is only ~1 year old, but they had some big names join them (Sase,Stc,Nani,etc...). You'd think that would make investors more relaxed since they are guaranteed advertisement in big tournaments. It still feels suspicious that such a big team with very good players can vanish instantly.
Unexpected for sure, I never thought Quantic was in such dire straights for money. Heart goes out to all the players in all divisions of the organization who are now teamless, especially those who were put up in the team house.
On December 05 2012 09:49 Fluid wrote: How is this possible? Weren't they like the 2nd biggest team in NA? They even had a huge team house and everything. And their players were doing pretty good...
Damn, this is so depressing...
Because they were apparently 100% reliant on investor funding... It doesn't really matter much if you have a ton of non-guaranteed money that isn't really yours.
Everyone likes to shit on EG, but in the end they are one of the few foreign teams, along with Liquid that can actually offer stable conditions for players.
I think Quantic just got too big for it's own good but I guess no one really knows except those directly involved.
But then how did they get the money to use that huge team house? Did the ceo just blindly accept to rent a huge house without knowing if their investors would pay them the next month? What kind of business rationale is that?
By the sound of things that's exactly what happened... Are you really surprised by this point though? We've seen numerous teams fail, most of them were headed by guys with little to no business experience or education. Lots of people jumped on the opportunities that SC2 presented based on ambition alone. SC2 bubble has burst and the NA scene is especially weak on a global scale.
It's true that the team is only ~1 year old, but they had some big names join them (Sase,Stc,Nani,etc...). You'd think that would make investors more relaxed since they are guaranteed advertisement in big tournaments. It still feels suspicious that such a big team with very good players can vanish instantly.
Well it all depends on the management of the organization. Clearly in this case the management had no contingent plan or money of it's own. Like I said earlier, it's impossible to say with certainty what went wrong, but it seems that Quantic tried to take on too many projects and never saved/made any money. They aggressively expanded to take on ALL of Vile, a number of Korean players, Decemvre, Maximus Black and Maddelisk.... They had a massive roster, mostly players who never had a chance of placing at an event. Not really the smartest way to build a team.
On December 05 2012 09:49 Fluid wrote: How is this possible? Weren't they like the 2nd biggest team in NA? They even had a huge team house and everything. And their players were doing pretty good...
Damn, this is so depressing...
Because they were apparently 100% reliant on investor funding... It doesn't really matter much if you have a ton of non-guaranteed money that isn't really yours.
Everyone likes to shit on EG, but in the end they are one of the few foreign teams, along with Liquid that can actually offer stable conditions for players.
I think Quantic just got too big for it's own good but I guess no one really knows except those directly involved.
But then how did they get the money to use that huge team house? Did the ceo just blindly accept to rent a huge house without knowing if their investors would pay them the next month? What kind of business rationale is that?
By the sound of things that's exactly what happened... Are you really surprised by this point though? We've seen numerous teams fail, most of them were headed by guys with little to no business experience or education. Lots of people jumped on the opportunities that SC2 presented based on ambition alone. SC2 bubble has burst and the NA scene is especially weak on a global scale.
It's true that the team is only ~1 year old, but they had some big names join them (Sase,Stc,Nani,etc...). You'd think that would make investors more relaxed since they are guaranteed advertisement in big tournaments. It still feels suspicious that such a big team with very good players can vanish instantly.
Well it all depends on the management of the organization. Clearly in this case the management had no contingent plan or money of it's own. Like I said earlier, it's impossible to say with certainty what went wrong, but it seems that Quantic tried to take on too many projects and never saved/made any money. They aggressively expanded to take on ALL of Vile, a number of Korean players, Decemvre, Maximus Black and Maddelisk.... They had a massive roster, mostly players who never had a chance of placing at an event. Not really the smartest way to build a team.
But most progaming teams are like this too, right? I mean they have their A-team which is the players that they send to win tourneys and their B-team which are like "pros-in-training", which are just really good players who are there to learn from the actual pros and maybe become pro themselves after 1 year or so.
Wish the players were given a heads up, this is completely unprofessional by their management, doubt all funding would stop simultaneously and instantaneously.
I'm actually not surprised this happened. As a newly formed team they went on some massive spending spree and the contracts they offered the players were obviously a bit ridiculous too because some rather high maintenance players gave quotes such as " the contract terms met all my demands,etc". Then they went out to buy entire teams without a solid foundation like fxo.
Sad news but this is business. You make bad decisions, you fail.
WOW, wat tEH fuck?!! Did not expect this at all??? What happened? Did they screw up at an organizational level?? They were such an amazing sc2 team at one point (still a good time just be4 disbanding), and they had a fairly good dota team too. Very very surprised....
investors pulled their funding - Quantic was not making any money for them in the present nor did they foresee them making any money for them in the future. Can't keep injecting non-stop money into a business that is making zero profit (unless your name is Sundance)
On December 05 2012 09:49 Fluid wrote: How is this possible? Weren't they like the 2nd biggest team in NA? They even had a huge team house and everything. And their players were doing pretty good...
Damn, this is so depressing...
Because they were apparently 100% reliant on investor funding... It doesn't really matter much if you have a ton of non-guaranteed money that isn't really yours.
Everyone likes to shit on EG, but in the end they are one of the few foreign teams, along with Liquid that can actually offer stable conditions for players.
I think Quantic just got too big for it's own good but I guess no one really knows except those directly involved.
But then how did they get the money to use that huge team house? Did the ceo just blindly accept to rent a huge house without knowing if their investors would pay them the next month? What kind of business rationale is that?
By the sound of things that's exactly what happened... Are you really surprised by this point though? We've seen numerous teams fail, most of them were headed by guys with little to no business experience or education. Lots of people jumped on the opportunities that SC2 presented based on ambition alone. SC2 bubble has burst and the NA scene is especially weak on a global scale.
It's true that the team is only ~1 year old, but they had some big names join them (Sase,Stc,Nani,etc...). You'd think that would make investors more relaxed since they are guaranteed advertisement in big tournaments. It still feels suspicious that such a big team with very good players can vanish instantly.
Well it all depends on the management of the organization. Clearly in this case the management had no contingent plan or money of it's own. Like I said earlier, it's impossible to say with certainty what went wrong, but it seems that Quantic tried to take on too many projects and never saved/made any money. They aggressively expanded to take on ALL of Vile, a number of Korean players, Decemvre, Maximus Black and Maddelisk.... They had a massive roster, mostly players who never had a chance of placing at an event. Not really the smartest way to build a team.
But most progaming teams are like this too, right? I mean they have their A-team which is the players that they send to win tourneys and their B-team which are like "pros-in-training", which are just really good players who are there to learn from the actual pros and maybe become pro themselves after 1 year or so.
Yea but you need to start off smaller. You can't have like 3 players who can potentially place at an event and 30 that can barely make GM league.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
I don't know how you would know the business model of EG. I HIGHLY DOUBT that she is the employee responsible for meeting with corporations for promotional/financial details.
Far as the celeb thing goes, she was/is as famous as any regional network reporter. Not a big deal, I could find more qualified/attractive FACE for the corporate reps at my university's communication major. EG is far from being anything close to a "wallstreet powerhouse", but they are the most professional/proactive organization in the business.
Marketing for eSports should resemble MLS teams, because both of their target audience share similar sociological factors that draw them in.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
How are teams not a business? All real sport teams are run like a business. If this was 5 years ago when eSports was just a few nerds living in their parent's basement it would be a different story, but the scene has evolved to a semi-legitimacy. To get the best results, sponsorship, and more fans players must adapt to the market.
On December 05 2012 09:49 Fluid wrote: How is this possible? Weren't they like the 2nd biggest team in NA? They even had a huge team house and everything. And their players were doing pretty good...
Damn, this is so depressing...
Because they were apparently 100% reliant on investor funding... It doesn't really matter much if you have a ton of non-guaranteed money that isn't really yours.
Everyone likes to shit on EG, but in the end they are one of the few foreign teams, along with Liquid that can actually offer stable conditions for players.
I think Quantic just got too big for it's own good but I guess no one really knows except those directly involved.
But then how did they get the money to use that huge team house? Did the ceo just blindly accept to rent a huge house without knowing if their investors would pay them the next month? What kind of business rationale is that?
By the sound of things that's exactly what happened... Are you really surprised by this point though? We've seen numerous teams fail, most of them were headed by guys with little to no business experience or education. Lots of people jumped on the opportunities that SC2 presented based on ambition alone. SC2 bubble has burst and the NA scene is especially weak on a global scale.
It's true that the team is only ~1 year old, but they had some big names join them (Sase,Stc,Nani,etc...). You'd think that would make investors more relaxed since they are guaranteed advertisement in big tournaments. It still feels suspicious that such a big team with very good players can vanish instantly.
Weird, I thought Quantic was around much longer, mostly cuz they had other teams before SC2; but it looks like those were all recent developments too.
I guess I was also thrown since they seemed to be moving a mile-a-minute when it came to SC2. Adding players, buying Vile, announcing partnerships with Korean teams and all that.
In hindsight they also had a lot of player and management turnover and both partnerships were dissolved relatively quickly (The IM one anyways; how long did their partnership with ST last?)
But that's hindsight and I just figured that's what goes on with a young scene and growing sc2 team.
On December 05 2012 10:29 ProteiNSheikH wrote: Wish the players were given a heads up, this is completely unprofessional by their management, doubt all funding would stop simultaneously and instantaneously.
Sad day, good luck everyone!
What were they supposed to do? Say "we will disband in 3 months?" Then no one would care about their team for those 3 months and it would effectively be disbanded. Maddelisk (former Quantic member) posted a blog post about her situation in which she states:
First, Quantic is dealing with this in a professional manner and will make sure to take care of trips home for the players living in the team house etc. They will not leave any loose ends.
which in my opinion is all you can expect from a team.
It might be "bad for esports", but to be completely honest I won't really miss Quantic. Quantic for me stands for SaSe and the red shirts. Thinking a little further, maybe TheSTC and NaNiWa in the past. SaSe will find a new team and I won't miss the red shirts that much. They seemingly popped out of nothing and now they are gone already.
It seems to be very hard for mid-tier American team to stand out and "rise". Team leagues aren't important enough. There are no local scenes, no American online scene and not even Americans bother to watch American players. They cannot buy/support a Korean star player and nobody cares about mid-tier Korean players even if they win. Must send players to Korea to improve, but this doesn't help every player. Must send players to MLG to get exposure but they get eliminated before anyone notices. No local sponsors (remember: no local scenes), everyone else wants to sponsor EG, not you. The more I write this, the more I think about complexity. They have a high-class pedigree but they don't stand out at all.
Teams need to have a soul, a philosophy, a story and star players. For this, we need a big, prestigious foreign team league :|
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
I don't know how you would know the business model of EG. I HIGHLY DOUBT that she is the employee responsible for meeting with corporations for promotional/financial details.
Far as the celeb thing goes, she was/is as famous as any regional network reporter. Not a big deal, I could find more qualified/attractive FACE for the corporate reps at my university's communication major. EG is far from being anything close to a "wallstreet powerhouse", but they are the most professional/proactive organization in the business.
Marketing for eSports should resemble MLS teams, because both of their target audience share similar sociological factors that draw them in.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
How are teams not a business? All real sport teams are run like a business. If this was 5 years ago when eSports was just a few nerds living in their parent's basement it would be a different story, but the scene has evolved to a semi-legitimacy. To get the best results, sponsorship, and more fans players must adapt to the market.
"All real sport teams are run like a business." First of all, all real sports teams, the best ones, started out as real teams. The reason they are so popular is through years of playing in a town or city. They have to build trust, no? So, its not really a business. They compete, they deal with each other, not customers. They create business by selling shirts, tickets, whatnot like a "real sports team".
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
I don't know how you would know the business model of EG. I HIGHLY DOUBT that she is the employee responsible for meeting with corporations for promotional/financial details.
Far as the celeb thing goes, she was/is as famous as any regional network reporter. Not a big deal, I could find more qualified/attractive FACE for the corporate reps at my university's communication major. EG is far from being anything close to a "wallstreet powerhouse", but they are the most professional/proactive organization in the business.
Marketing for eSports should resemble MLS teams, because both of their target audience share similar sociological factors that draw them in.
On December 05 2012 09:40 ViktorSC wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:14 Cattlecruiser wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:47 BlackVelvet wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
How are teams not a business? All real sport teams are run like a business. If this was 5 years ago when eSports was just a few nerds living in their parent's basement it would be a different story, but the scene has evolved to a semi-legitimacy. To get the best results, sponsorship, and more fans players must adapt to the market.
"All real sport teams are run like a business." First of all, all real sports teams, the best ones, started out as real teams. The reason they are so popular is through years of playing in a town or city. They have to build trust, no? So, its not really a business. They compete, they deal with each other, not customers. They create business by selling shirts, tickets, whatnot like a "real sports team".
Real professional sports teams are businesses, regardless of how they started off. There really is no exception.
I'm so sad to see the Quantic disband. The small amount of time I had working with the organization gave me a lot of hope for their future. I wish all of the Quantic members the best of luck.
That was unexpected... although TheStc, Golden, Illusion and SaSe shouldn't have many problems getting a new team. But as a team, Quantic really wasn't that successful. To me they were the decent but under performing NA team that usually got stomped by Koreans in teamleagues.. Even their only teamleague win was when they partnered with LG-IM in TAC1, and it was pretty much all IM players who got the win. After it was meh.
investors pulled their funding - Quantic was not making any money for them in the present nor did they foresee them making any money for them in the future. Can't keep injecting non-stop money into a business that is making zero profit (unless your name is Sundance)
On December 05 2012 08:47 BlackVelvet wrote: [quote]
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
I don't know how you would know the business model of EG. I HIGHLY DOUBT that she is the employee responsible for meeting with corporations for promotional/financial details.
Far as the celeb thing goes, she was/is as famous as any regional network reporter. Not a big deal, I could find more qualified/attractive FACE for the corporate reps at my university's communication major. EG is far from being anything close to a "wallstreet powerhouse", but they are the most professional/proactive organization in the business.
Marketing for eSports should resemble MLS teams, because both of their target audience share similar sociological factors that draw them in.
On December 05 2012 09:40 ViktorSC wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:14 Cattlecruiser wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:47 BlackVelvet wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
How are teams not a business? All real sport teams are run like a business. If this was 5 years ago when eSports was just a few nerds living in their parent's basement it would be a different story, but the scene has evolved to a semi-legitimacy. To get the best results, sponsorship, and more fans players must adapt to the market.
"All real sport teams are run like a business." First of all, all real sports teams, the best ones, started out as real teams. The reason they are so popular is through years of playing in a town or city. They have to build trust, no? So, its not really a business. They compete, they deal with each other, not customers. They create business by selling shirts, tickets, whatnot like a "real sports team".
Real professional sports teams are businesses, regardless of how they started off. There really is no exception.
IF and when they can get a fan base. If Quantic had the fan base they prob couldve saved the team. We all watched Moneyball. We know how it works. The point is Quantic failed because it was run like a business and not a team. Real teams, Chelsea FC, the Patriots, Dream Team, all run like teams and not businesses. The concept of a team is always in the heart of an organization.
But the business they create allows them to make smart decisions. (Will I get banned for editing my comments many times?)
On December 05 2012 10:43 DMZ wrote: That was unexpected... although TheStc, Golden, Illusion and SaSe shouldn't have many problems getting a new team. But as a team, Quantic really wasn't that successful. To me they were the decent but under performing NA team that usually got stomped by Koreans in teamleagues.. Even their only teamleague win was when they partnered with LG-IM in TAC1, and it was pretty much all IM players who got the win. After it was meh.
Really sucks to see them go but they only really had two big Hitters with Sase, and STC. Illusion is good but never got the spotlight. Big Bummer for those guys.
Sad, I liked Quantic's approach to running a team, it seemed a pretty desirable way to do things. I like players on the team too, but I'm more sad that a team with a pretty good approach has failed
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
The funny thing is you actually think Anna is a celebrity and/or super model lol
On December 05 2012 09:14 Cattlecruiser wrote: [quote]
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
I don't know how you would know the business model of EG. I HIGHLY DOUBT that she is the employee responsible for meeting with corporations for promotional/financial details.
Far as the celeb thing goes, she was/is as famous as any regional network reporter. Not a big deal, I could find more qualified/attractive FACE for the corporate reps at my university's communication major. EG is far from being anything close to a "wallstreet powerhouse", but they are the most professional/proactive organization in the business.
Marketing for eSports should resemble MLS teams, because both of their target audience share similar sociological factors that draw them in.
On December 05 2012 09:40 ViktorSC wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:14 Cattlecruiser wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:47 BlackVelvet wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
How are teams not a business? All real sport teams are run like a business. If this was 5 years ago when eSports was just a few nerds living in their parent's basement it would be a different story, but the scene has evolved to a semi-legitimacy. To get the best results, sponsorship, and more fans players must adapt to the market.
"All real sport teams are run like a business." First of all, all real sports teams, the best ones, started out as real teams. The reason they are so popular is through years of playing in a town or city. They have to build trust, no? So, its not really a business. They compete, they deal with each other, not customers. They create business by selling shirts, tickets, whatnot like a "real sports team".
Real professional sports teams are businesses, regardless of how they started off. There really is no exception.
IF and when they can get a fan base. If Quantic had the fan base they prob couldve saved the team. We all watched Moneyball. We know how it works. The point is Quantic failed because it was run like a business and not a team. Real teams, Chelsea FC, the Patriots, Dream Team, all run like teams and not businesses. The concept of a team is always in the heart of an organization.
But the business they create allows them to make smart decisions. (Will I get banned for editing my comments many times?)
You watched Moneyball? OMG you must have a great understanding of finance and business...
In what way was Quantic run like a business? They did not put out consistent streams, popular events, or any sponsor promotion.
The Patriots are the most businesslike team in the NFL. Their players understand they are only good as their last season. The only real constant in their team since the Belichek era is Tom Brady and Vince Wilfork. It is because of the pressure and the lack of job security that keeps their players so prepared and motivated. The Pats front office is the best at quantifying a player's worth, this is the reason behind their success during the era of free agency.
On December 05 2012 10:57 Canucklehead wrote: EG and Liquid will be the last NA teams standing in the end I think.
Pretty sure Liquid is European. O_o
You know, I keep forgetting that. However, their HQ is in NY, so that's why I always call them an NA team. OK, EG will be the last NA team standing and will have our the NA sponsors to themselves!
Wow, I never saw this one coming. I had hope they would be come one of the biggest teams in the future, with Google officially sponsoring them instead of two their employees.
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote: [quote] To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
I don't know how you would know the business model of EG. I HIGHLY DOUBT that she is the employee responsible for meeting with corporations for promotional/financial details.
Far as the celeb thing goes, she was/is as famous as any regional network reporter. Not a big deal, I could find more qualified/attractive FACE for the corporate reps at my university's communication major. EG is far from being anything close to a "wallstreet powerhouse", but they are the most professional/proactive organization in the business.
Marketing for eSports should resemble MLS teams, because both of their target audience share similar sociological factors that draw them in.
On December 05 2012 09:40 ViktorSC wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:14 Cattlecruiser wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:47 BlackVelvet wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
How are teams not a business? All real sport teams are run like a business. If this was 5 years ago when eSports was just a few nerds living in their parent's basement it would be a different story, but the scene has evolved to a semi-legitimacy. To get the best results, sponsorship, and more fans players must adapt to the market.
"All real sport teams are run like a business." First of all, all real sports teams, the best ones, started out as real teams. The reason they are so popular is through years of playing in a town or city. They have to build trust, no? So, its not really a business. They compete, they deal with each other, not customers. They create business by selling shirts, tickets, whatnot like a "real sports team".
Real professional sports teams are businesses, regardless of how they started off. There really is no exception.
IF and when they can get a fan base. If Quantic had the fan base they prob couldve saved the team. We all watched Moneyball. We know how it works. The point is Quantic failed because it was run like a business and not a team. Real teams, Chelsea FC, the Patriots, Dream Team, all run like teams and not businesses. The concept of a team is always in the heart of an organization.
But the business they create allows them to make smart decisions. (Will I get banned for editing my comments many times?)
You watched Moneyball? OMG you must have a great understanding of finance and business...
In what way was Quantic run like a business? They did not put out consistent streams, popular events, or any sponsor promotion.
The Patriots are the most businesslike team in the NFL. Their players understand they are only good as their last season. The only real constant in their team since the Belichek era is Tom Brady and Vince Wilfork. It is because of the pressure and the lack of job security that keeps their players so prepared and motivated. The Pats front office is the best at quantifying a player's worth, this is the reason behind their success during the era of free agency.
Yeah, 100% right. EG kind of approach it like a 'business' but don't necessarily use that as a stepping stone to improving the team,
I 100% agree that EG's marketing etc is a great way to go. However they all too frequently don't use that to enable them to have a sustainable model that makes their team and their results better, naturally. They may do things like picking up Stephano, or creating a team house that do benefit their team, but it's not necessarily done in a smart way.
I loved Quantic's approach in terms of picking up lots of solid, decent players and improving them. However, unlike EG they didn't sort the business part out first, so even though I liked their approach, it wasn't applied on the solid base, business wise that EG have.
A team with Quantic's approach to team building, and EG's business nous would be beautiful
I wonder if Eg will pick up a few of there NA players since the Liar is a bit empty with Idra/Demuslim (rumored) going to Korea, Illusion/State would be pretty good pick ups.
On December 05 2012 11:50 zasg wrote: Sase would make a good contribution to the proleague eg/liquid team...gogo pick him up!
There is almost no reason for at least one of those two not to pick him up. He's also not a Naniwa who is known for being hard to deal with sometimes in a team environment. That isn't a bash at Nani btw, I like Naniwa and feel some of this is somewhat exaggerated. In the case of SaSe:
He's a very dedicated player, who has shown a desire to not just go to Korea, but stick it out there. In the case of the old EG-Slayers partnership for GSTL, he would have been available to play on that combined roster, without having to fly him out specifically to play in that tournament (which costs money)
He's a foreign player, so Liquid's stated desire to not just want to pick up lots of Koreans isn't a limiting factor here. He's a very good player too so he would add depth to their roster. He's not an overall monster, but his PvP is good and his PvT is (imo) the best among any foreigner. In a teamleague, he could be employed as a PvT sniper, or thrown out for a PvP because he's competent in that matchup.
His skill, small but dedicated fanbase and willingness to stay in Korea, as a combination of factors makes him a very logical pickup. Individually, they're not reasons enough, but combined imo they are.
This is so sad, I am so speechless right now. Best of luck SaSe, MaddeLisk, Illusion, TheSTC and everyone else on Quantic, I'm really hoping that you'll find new teams soon.
There is almost no reason for at least one of those two not to pick him up. He's also not a Naniwa who is known for being hard to deal with sometimes in a team environment. That isn't a bash at Nani btw, I like Naniwa and feel some of this is somewhat exaggerated. In the case of SaSe:
There is almost no reason for at least one of those two not to pick him up. He's also not a Naniwa who is known for being hard to deal with sometimes in a team environment. That isn't a bash at Nani btw, I like Naniwa and feel some of this is somewhat exaggerated. In the case of SaSe:
You'd be surprised.
Well ok, Major then He's known for being a teamhopper, but yet Root and him were able to coexist perfectly well. He 'teamhopped' over to try and join a Korean team, but Root respected this decision and didn't call him a dick for it, instead wishing him the best.
There is almost no reason for at least one of those two not to pick him up. He's also not a Naniwa who is known for being hard to deal with sometimes in a team environment. That isn't a bash at Nani btw, I like Naniwa and feel some of this is somewhat exaggerated. In the case of SaSe:
You'd be surprised.
Well ok, Major then He's known for being a teamhopper, but yet Root and him were able to coexist perfectly well. He 'teamhopped' over to try and join a Korean team, but Root respected this decision and didn't call him a dick for it, instead wishing him the best.
They all have their degrees of difficulties. What they offer though is pretty much worth accepting and working with. For SaSe and NaNiwa, the work was pretty rough, but boy did they pull through.
There is almost no reason for at least one of those two not to pick him up. He's also not a Naniwa who is known for being hard to deal with sometimes in a team environment. That isn't a bash at Nani btw, I like Naniwa and feel some of this is somewhat exaggerated. In the case of SaSe:
You'd be surprised.
Well ok, Major then He's known for being a teamhopper, but yet Root and him were able to coexist perfectly well. He 'teamhopped' over to try and join a Korean team, but Root respected this decision and didn't call him a dick for it, instead wishing him the best.
They all have their degrees of difficulties. What they offer though is pretty much worth accepting and working with. For SaSe and NaNiwa, the work was pretty rough, but boy did they pull through.
Is SaSe as 'difficult' as Nani to work with? He's always struck me as a chilled out kind of guy, met him at Dreamhack last year and had a brief chat. I've heard rumblings that SaSe is perhaps a bit of a lone wolf in terms of how he fits into his teams, which doesn't seem to fit with Liquid's team ethic. It would be perhaps that (if true) that would prevent say, Liquid picking him up
There is almost no reason for at least one of those two not to pick him up. He's also not a Naniwa who is known for being hard to deal with sometimes in a team environment. That isn't a bash at Nani btw, I like Naniwa and feel some of this is somewhat exaggerated. In the case of SaSe:
You'd be surprised.
Well ok, Major then He's known for being a teamhopper, but yet Root and him were able to coexist perfectly well. He 'teamhopped' over to try and join a Korean team, but Root respected this decision and didn't call him a dick for it, instead wishing him the best.
They all have their degrees of difficulties. What they offer though is pretty much worth accepting and working with. For SaSe and NaNiwa, the work was pretty rough, but boy did they pull through.
Is SaSe as 'difficult' as Nani to work with? He's always struck me as a chilled out kind of guy, met him at Dreamhack last year and had a brief chat. I've heard rumblings that SaSe is perhaps a bit of a lone wolf in terms of how he fits into his teams, which doesn't seem to fit with Liquid's team ethic. It would be perhaps that (if true) that would prevent say, Liquid picking him up
seemed like Sase was more connected to ST and not Quantic itself.. understandable though as he lived in Korea and the other foreign Quantic members were not on his level
Man...... So sad. I followed all of team Vile for so long and thought that the Quantic merger would be a good thing. Hope those guys land on their feet.
Seems so random.
Wow - and I just noticed from liquidpedia that theSTC is there too. Man I feel bad for that guy
Really not that big of a surprise. I honestly thought this would come A LOT sooner. With all their past problems, and bad publicity I'm shocked they didn't pull the plug sooner. I'm quite sure the investors weren't getting any profits from the team anyway, so this was the logical choice for them.
I see a couple of their players fading off and not being picked up. But, I really wish them all the best of luck in the future.
On December 05 2012 12:27 jakethesnake wrote: Man...... So sad. I followed all of team Vile for so long and thought that the Quantic merger would be a good thing. Hope those guys land on their feet.
Seems so random.
Wow - and I just noticed from liquidpedia that theSTC is there too. Man I feel bad for that guy
It was these were unforeseen circumstances when quantics sponsors pulled out they were left with all these players who they could no longer in good conscious keep on their team when they couldn't pay them.
There is almost no reason for at least one of those two not to pick him up. He's also not a Naniwa who is known for being hard to deal with sometimes in a team environment. That isn't a bash at Nani btw, I like Naniwa and feel some of this is somewhat exaggerated. In the case of SaSe:
You'd be surprised.
Well ok, Major then He's known for being a teamhopper, but yet Root and him were able to coexist perfectly well. He 'teamhopped' over to try and join a Korean team, but Root respected this decision and didn't call him a dick for it, instead wishing him the best.
They all have their degrees of difficulties. What they offer though is pretty much worth accepting and working with. For SaSe and NaNiwa, the work was pretty rough, but boy did they pull through.
Is SaSe as 'difficult' as Nani to work with? He's always struck me as a chilled out kind of guy, met him at Dreamhack last year and had a brief chat. I've heard rumblings that SaSe is perhaps a bit of a lone wolf in terms of how he fits into his teams, which doesn't seem to fit with Liquid's team ethic. It would be perhaps that (if true) that would prevent say, Liquid picking him up
They both had their ups and downs, they treated me very well despite some difficulties (this was before the Vile merge, so it was awhile ago). Sometimes NaNiwa would be difficult, sometimes SaSe was. I've spoke to SaSe a month ago or so and he seems really cheerful and happy where he is, at least enough to really talk to me pleasantly.
Neither SaSe nor NaNiwa talked with the other players.
This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
On December 05 2012 12:39 black_ICE wrote: This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
Sad to see one of NA's bigger names close. Can't help but remember Mark Ferraz's comment on Climbing the Ladder about how most teams were actually only one sponsor away from being insolvent.
On December 05 2012 12:39 black_ICE wrote: This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
lol not only are you a massive dick, but you don't have any idea what you're talking about LOL.
Lol, SaSe, best foreign PvT for my money obviously was on Quantic because he's friends with Nani.
Quantic's approach was nice because they didn't pick up people who were already winning, but because they tried to mould players with potential, up to that level.
On December 05 2012 12:39 black_ICE wrote: This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
I don't even know where to start breaking apart why this is wrong....I mean there's the terrifying news of sponsors pulling out of a team which, considering that's how basically every team survives is a terrifying concept. Or the loss or a very big team, regardless of their overall skill level or their higher skilled players, there was still a lot of players with quantic in their name, and because of this, I would be surprised if they could all manage to find teams again, because of the sudden influx of a disbanded team.
Finally, with the sponsors thing, true, quantic weren't at EG level with marketing their sponsors, but look at PsY and MaximusBlack. Neither of them at this stage are top tier pro players, in the sense of winning MLG, etc etc. But they aren't on the team for that reason. They are there to help promote sponsors, etc, because even if you aren't a top tier player, being a personality is it's own form of sponsor promotion, and I would argue more effective. A simple example of this would be incontrol. Regarless of results, everyone knows who he is, what team he's on, and their sponsors, and the amount of exposure the sponsors get because of that.
On December 05 2012 12:54 Wombat_NI wrote: Quantic's approach was nice because they didn't pick up people who were already winning, but because they tried to mould players with potential, up to that level.
Yes, look at NaNiwa was able to achieve while on Quantic (Back-to-back GSL Code S quarterfinals). That was also one of the reasons why they signed MaddeList if I'm not completely mistaken.
On December 05 2012 12:39 black_ICE wrote: This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
I don't even know where to start breaking apart why this is wrong....I mean there's the terrifying news of sponsors pulling out of a team which, considering that's how basically every team survives is a terrifying concept. Or the loss or a very big team, regardless of their overall skill level or their higher skilled players, there was still a lot of players with quantic in their name, and because of this, I would be surprised if they could all manage to find teams again, because of the sudden influx of a disbanded team.
Finally, with the sponsors thing, true, quantic weren't at EG level with marketing their sponsors, but look at PsY and MaximusBlack. Neither of them at this stage are top tier pro players, in the sense of winning MLG, etc etc. But they aren't on the team for that reason. They are there to help promote sponsors, etc, because even if you aren't a top tier player, being a personality is it's own form of sponsor promotion, and I would argue more effective. A simple example of this would be incontrol. Regarless of results, everyone knows who he is, what team he's on, and their sponsors, and the amount of exposure the sponsors get because of that.
sorry but incontrol's skill level compared to Maximusblack's is like flash's skill compared to incontrol's. there are not only the 2 categories of tournament winners and personalities
also disagreed with your point. I can guarantee you that a player like Sase was worth 10x more to Quantic and their sponsors than a guy like Maximusblack.
On December 05 2012 12:39 black_ICE wrote: This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
On December 05 2012 12:39 black_ICE wrote: This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
On December 05 2012 12:39 black_ICE wrote: This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
lol not only are you a massive dick, but you don't have any idea what you're talking about LOL.
They weren't friends?
they are not as close as they used to be anymore. it was actually one of the reasons why Naniwa left Quantic, they had enough of each other. but they are still friends as far as I know
edit: read your full post now and yes everyone is right, you are indeed a clueless moron
On December 05 2012 12:39 black_ICE wrote: This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
lol not only are you a massive dick, but you don't have any idea what you're talking about LOL.
They weren't friends?
That is not the problem with your post. The fact that you think Sase is famous because of his friendship with naniwa makes you a massive dick/have no idea what you are talking about.
On December 05 2012 06:55 packrat386 wrote: Thats crazy, they have so many successful players.
Define succes?
They have lots of good players. But never any REAL title contenders
It probably would have happened regardless of success anyway. Such a sudden thing and including all games looks like sponsors simply removed e-sports from their priorities to look towards other things.
It's hard to make it as an up-and-coming organization. In retrospect, Quantic really was all-or-nothing this year; the training facility, lots of international travel, and relatively big acquisitions were big investments for us. I'm sad to see things didn't work out, partly because I feel we had a lot of potential, but mostly because these are the people I've spent the past two years working and growing with.
Thanks everyone for your continued support, and thank you Quantic for the opportunities you've given us.
That said, best of luck to everyone! Happy StarCrafting.
On December 05 2012 12:39 black_ICE wrote: This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
lol not only are you a massive dick, but you don't have any idea what you're talking about LOL.
They weren't friends?
That is not the problem with your post. The fact that you think Sase is famous because of his friendship with naniwa makes you a massive dick/have no idea what you are talking about.
To be fair, Sase really hasn't played in bigger tournaments in a long time. I know Sase because he's a very quality player, but not participating in visible tournaments means that you don't promote your sponsors effectively. His being unaware of just how good Sase is just strengthens his point that the visibility wasn't there.
On December 05 2012 13:14 QuanticState wrote: Well..this sucks.
It's hard to make it as an up-and-coming organization. In retrospect, Quantic really was all-or-nothing this year; the training facility, lots of international travel, and relatively big acquisitions were big investments for us. I'm sad to see things didn't work out, partly because I feel we had a lot of potential, but mostly because these are the people I've spent the past two years working and growing with.
Thanks everyone for your continued support, and thank you Quantic for the opportunities you've given us.
That said, best of luck to everyone! Happy StarCrafting.
Sorry about the breakdown State. But know that you will have support and fans no matter where you go! I hope you find a good supportive team that fits with your goals and plans soon.
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote: [quote] To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
I don't know how you would know the business model of EG. I HIGHLY DOUBT that she is the employee responsible for meeting with corporations for promotional/financial details.
Far as the celeb thing goes, she was/is as famous as any regional network reporter. Not a big deal, I could find more qualified/attractive FACE for the corporate reps at my university's communication major. EG is far from being anything close to a "wallstreet powerhouse", but they are the most professional/proactive organization in the business.
Marketing for eSports should resemble MLS teams, because both of their target audience share similar sociological factors that draw them in.
On December 05 2012 09:40 ViktorSC wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:14 Cattlecruiser wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:47 BlackVelvet wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
How are teams not a business? All real sport teams are run like a business. If this was 5 years ago when eSports was just a few nerds living in their parent's basement it would be a different story, but the scene has evolved to a semi-legitimacy. To get the best results, sponsorship, and more fans players must adapt to the market.
"All real sport teams are run like a business." First of all, all real sports teams, the best ones, started out as real teams. The reason they are so popular is through years of playing in a town or city. They have to build trust, no? So, its not really a business. They compete, they deal with each other, not customers. They create business by selling shirts, tickets, whatnot like a "real sports team".
Real professional sports teams are businesses, regardless of how they started off. There really is no exception.
IF and when they can get a fan base. If Quantic had the fan base they prob couldve saved the team. We all watched Moneyball. We know how it works. The point is Quantic failed because it was run like a business and not a team. Real teams, Chelsea FC, the Patriots, Dream Team, all run like teams and not businesses. The concept of a team is always in the heart of an organization.
But the business they create allows them to make smart decisions. (Will I get banned for editing my comments many times?)
You watched Moneyball? OMG you must have a great understanding of finance and business...
In what way was Quantic run like a business? They did not put out consistent streams, popular events, or any sponsor promotion.
The Patriots are the most businesslike team in the NFL. Their players understand they are only good as their last season. The only real constant in their team since the Belichek era is Tom Brady and Vince Wilfork. It is because of the pressure and the lack of job security that keeps their players so prepared and motivated. The Pats front office is the best at quantifying a player's worth, this is the reason behind their success during the era of free agency.
You are obviously a finance and economics student. And I obviously dont care about that but you prob didnt even notice because all you care about is finance. Yes I watched Moneyball, no they did not mail me my economics degree from harvard with my netflix rental.
Couldnt even read your comment because I think you answered your own question but was too lazy to give a damn.
The quarterback is the most important part of the team and will never give him up. Period. I doubt they could afford any other group of players anyways.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
The funny thing is you actually think Anna is a celebrity and/or super model lol
Haha, they got to you too my poor lad? Of course she is a celebrity and model. She was Ms. Portland for crying out loud. Do you know how many drinks she has to pay for in portland...
On December 05 2012 12:39 black_ICE wrote: This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
I don't even know where to start breaking apart why this is wrong....I mean there's the terrifying news of sponsors pulling out of a team which, considering that's how basically every team survives is a terrifying concept. Or the loss or a very big team, regardless of their overall skill level or their higher skilled players, there was still a lot of players with quantic in their name, and because of this, I would be surprised if they could all manage to find teams again, because of the sudden influx of a disbanded team.
Honestly, that's ok for me. Not everyone who's moderately good at the game should be pro.
Finally, with the sponsors thing, true, quantic weren't at EG level with marketing their sponsors, but look at PsY and MaximusBlack. Neither of them at this stage are top tier pro players, in the sense of winning MLG, etc etc. But they aren't on the team for that reason. They are there to help promote sponsors, etc, because even if you aren't a top tier player, being a personality is it's own form of sponsor promotion, and I would argue more effective. A simple example of this would be incontrol. Regarless of results, everyone knows who he is, what team he's on, and their sponsors, and the amount of exposure the sponsors get because of that.
Incontrol and Destiny are the exceptions to the rule. For two years now, no one has been able to replicate the success that those two have gotten by being progamers with personality. Even Dragon was teamless for a while after Slayers despite being hilarious on stream and teamless again now. Until you mentioned it, I didn't know that's what MaximusBlack's role was on the team. I saw him being interviewed during a break at the last MLG and I had no idea who he even was. I don't think that's a reliable option to sustain a gaming career and attracting sponsors. Progamers should be about playing the game, fun personalities are a bonus. Pro athletes aren't picked because of their popularity to the masses, they are picked because of their skill at their given sports and their ability to win. Everybody loves a winner. When their ability diminishes, the ones with personalities retire and become commentators and analysts. The only "athletes" with personality are wrestlers, but I don't want SC2 to become a sideshow like that. Back in BW firebathero was an exception to the rule also, but he became popular because his wacky ceremonies came after he beat some heavy hitters at the time.
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
EG was a powerhouse in esports before SC2 was even released. EG was doing well in SC2 before Anna ever worked with them. And even though she's been doing good work, it clearly hasn't been anywhere near as significant as you're implying. I think you should forget everything you think you know and start your knowledge on this scene from scratch.
I didn't like this guys attitude the first time I heard him. I don't like it now. This is progress when people who are in this for wrong reasons are phased out, "I can't be Al Pachino, I can't be the Godfather" please, if you're in e-sports to be Al Pachino and ordering everyone around then you're in the wrong business. E-sports is about the players so saying "it's not a part-time job" is 100% correct. If you don't have the passion for the players lives, and put them first you're in it for the wrong reasons.
When you're a manager of something you've got to believe in the quality and amazingness of your product. For e-sports managers that is the Progamers themselves. Gamers are not Monopoly properties to buy and sell and hope they win a tournament landing on a hotel on boardwalk. Players aren't pawns, players are the Stars and your role as a manager is to invest in their stardom. I didn't feel respect for that stardom from Mark in all the video's I've seen him in. It's all about him, he's not Al Pachino or the Godfather... yeah, this isn't the business for you sir. I hope you find what you're looking for, good luck and thanks for supporting gaming for this long. I'm sure you have the gratitude of many for being a team manager rightfully so but the next person to take your place that respects the players, that thinks of them as the Stars that they are, and make a lot of money on it. You will wish you never quit come HoTS
Don't get me wrong, I see the really hardworker in Mark and how much that's done for e-sports for the players in Quantic. But I also see a really opinionated stubbornly pig-headed closed minded person. E-sports requires an open mind to succeed because success in e-sports comes from your vision that you convince other people with. If you enter being closed minded you'll probably exit closed minded grumbling and complaining about all the closed minded realities you lived with. Who would have known Total Biscuit could raise $15,000 in a day. Who would have known Grubby would be a caster, a pro-player, and run his own team all by himself with tons of sponsors. Who would have known Reddit would light up like a torch when Grubby was playing games in IEM. To be in e-sports you have to be a visionary, you have to convince your players to think beyond the box because the box is really small and unfun. Who would have known Parting would win BWC and WCG. If you're not a dreamer in e-sports then your "reality" is going to be pretty bleak because reality in e-sports is what you make other people believe, and the most convincing things is dreams and visions. If you don't have any of your own, it's unlikely you're going to convince anyone else of dreams and visions. If you do have some of your own and don't do anything with them, you've wasted all our times.
That's why it really pisses me off when Mark says that EG is simply, "a marketing company that gives all their profits back to e-sports." EG is a fucking dream creating powerhouse. EG creates dreams and so does companies that sponsor them. Calling them "a marketing company". You know what else is a "marketing company" Hollywood. Hollywood makes movies that get purchased by TV companies to broadcast on their stations which people watch in exchange for being inundated with advertisements. Companies pay royalties to the cast of movies through publishing companies in order to play their movie on their station for advertisements.
I guess production labels for TV stars are "marketing companies" because they market their goods in exchange for advertisements that make people want to buy the products of whoever paid for the advertisement spots. You know what the most expensive advertisement spot is on tv? Superbowl advertisements, I guess FOOTBALL is Marketing.
As ESPORTS and starcraft2 grow, the weak ends leave. It is an unfortunate truth: there is no happy candyland experience for everyone involved just because you decided you want to play. You make a product worth keeping, or you don't get to stay. Tournaments will die, teams will disband, players will retire, organizations will drop sc2, sponsors will leave esports. All have happened and will continue to happen, especially as we grow, and we will continue to grow regardless, and partially because of it. Those that can't make it fall and the stronger continue to grow and learn from it.
I hope that the players that are good enough and dedicated to play and continue to grow find new teams. Beyond that I don't particularly feel anything about this. If they had done better as an organization, or team, in performance or marketting, I might feel differently. But then again, if they had, they wouldn't be disbanding.
I think its tragic but I also see how badly managed this was. Unless Cinergy can clarify why this team had such a massive roster, an extravagant beach side home with a pool, and only 3 sponsors, why would they expect the organization to suddenly rain profits? The players are all very likable and profitable, seems more like management is what wasn't working.
I feel so bad for StC, Hawk, State, Illusion, Flo, MB, SaSe, and the rest of the team which there are way too many to name. I really liked this team and this group. So sad
Terrible news Quantic was an organization that managed to build nothing but good will in my eyes during their time in SC2. I knew nothing about them when I first read a thread on TL announcing that they were expanding their established name into SC2, and with each time they signed a player or made some kind of news in our scene my trust in their brand grew. They may never have been the biggest star in the show like TL, EG, or gsl teams, or even the controversial underdogs like ROOT, but whenever a player that you liked signed to Quantic it always felt like you could be happy that they had found a good home and rest assured that they would be well taken care of. When they "rescued" the team Vile players, that sealed the deal. I remember thinking "Wow... these guys are taking a massive risk to help out another group in an unfortunate position. Their heart is really in the right place."
I am genuinely saddened to see them go.
On December 05 2012 13:19 lannisport wrote: Investor nerf. What a sad day for everyone involved. ):
Yeah, stupid devs can't even read right! Everyone was crying for inFESTor nerfs not inVESTor nerfs!
On December 05 2012 12:39 black_ICE wrote: This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
lol not only are you a massive dick, but you don't have any idea what you're talking about LOL.
They weren't friends?
That is not the problem with your post. The fact that you think Sase is famous because of his friendship with naniwa makes you a massive dick/have no idea what you are talking about.
I don't understand how I came to know who he is is wrong? I was relating my personal experience. I never said he was famous because of Naniwa, that's only how I first came to hear of him because of his association with Naniwa. He mentioned him during an interview or something and I read that interview because Naniwa was winning. And the most I've ever watched him play was when he all-killed TL in IPL TAC, is it wrong too that I only know about that match because I wanted to watch TL play?
On December 05 2012 14:23 worldpeace30 wrote: I didn't like this guys attitude the first time I heard him. I don't like it now. This is progress when people who are in this for wrong reasons are phased out, "I can't be Al Pachino, I can't be the Godfather" please, if you're in e-sports to be Al Pachino and ordering everyone around then you're in the wrong business. E-sports is about the players so saying "it's not a part-time job" is 100% correct. If you don't have the passion for the players lives, and put them first you're in it for the wrong reasons.
When you're a manager of something you've got to believe in the quality and amazingness of your product. For e-sports managers that is the Progamers themselves. Gamers are not Monopoly properties to buy and sell and hope they win a tournament landing on a hotel on boardwalk. Players aren't pawns, players are the Stars and your role as a manager is to invest in their stardom. I didn't feel respect for that stardom from Mark in all the video's I've seen him in. It's all about him, he's not Al Pachino or the Godfather... yeah, this isn't the business for you sir. I hope you find what you're looking for, good luck and thanks for supporting gaming for this long. I'm sure you have the gratitude of many for being a team manager rightfully so but the next person to take your place that respects the players, that thinks of them as the Stars that they are, and make a lot of money on it. You will wish you never quit come HoTS
Don't get me wrong, I see the really hardworker in Mark and how much that's done for e-sports for the players in Quantic. But I also see a really opinionated stubbornly pig-headed closed minded person. E-sports requires an open mind to succeed because success in e-sports comes from your vision that you convince other people with. If you enter being closed minded you'll probably exit closed minded grumbling and complaining about all the closed minded realities you lived with. Who would have known Total Biscuit could raise $15,000 in a day. Who would have known Grubby would be a caster, a pro-player, and run his own team all by himself with tons of sponsors. Who would have known Reddit would light up like a torch when Grubby was playing games in IEM. To be in e-sports you have to be a visionary, you have to convince your players to think beyond the box because the box is really small and unfun. Who would have known Parting would win BWC and WCG. If you're not a dreamer in e-sports then your "reality" is going to be pretty bleak because reality in e-sports is what you make other people believe, and the most convincing things is dreams and visions. If you don't have any of your own, it's unlikely you're going to convince anyone else of dreams and visions. If you do have some of your own and don't do anything with them, you've wasted all our times.
That's why it really pisses me off when Mark says that EG is simply, "a marketing company that gives all their profits back to e-sports." EG is a fucking dream creating powerhouse. EG creates dreams and so does companies that sponsor them. Calling them "a marketing company". You know what else is a "marketing company" Hollywood. Hollywood makes movies that get purchased by TV companies to broadcast on their stations which people watch in exchange for being inundated with advertisements. Companies pay royalties to the cast of movies through publishing companies in order to play their movie on their station for advertisements.
I guess production labels for TV stars are "marketing companies" because they market their goods in exchange for advertisements that make people want to buy the products of whoever paid for the advertisement spots. You know what the most expensive advertisement spot is on tv? Superbowl advertisements, I guess FOOTBALL is Marketing.
I like this guy. I shall remind myself to read this comment later. One thing to remember is that an american team and a korean team are two different animals. They need different food. A foreign team will have to rely on other things to stay afloat because they always get beat by koreans. and now to play my favorite game... 4v4's, yeah!
this just proves how easy for a team to disabnd...so if you contact sponsor for every tiny negative things...team could disband...it doesnt take alot effort for investor to say no.
On December 05 2012 09:31 LuckoftheIrish wrote: [quote]
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
I don't know how you would know the business model of EG. I HIGHLY DOUBT that she is the employee responsible for meeting with corporations for promotional/financial details.
Far as the celeb thing goes, she was/is as famous as any regional network reporter. Not a big deal, I could find more qualified/attractive FACE for the corporate reps at my university's communication major. EG is far from being anything close to a "wallstreet powerhouse", but they are the most professional/proactive organization in the business.
Marketing for eSports should resemble MLS teams, because both of their target audience share similar sociological factors that draw them in.
On December 05 2012 09:40 ViktorSC wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:14 Cattlecruiser wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:47 BlackVelvet wrote: [quote]
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
How are teams not a business? All real sport teams are run like a business. If this was 5 years ago when eSports was just a few nerds living in their parent's basement it would be a different story, but the scene has evolved to a semi-legitimacy. To get the best results, sponsorship, and more fans players must adapt to the market.
"All real sport teams are run like a business." First of all, all real sports teams, the best ones, started out as real teams. The reason they are so popular is through years of playing in a town or city. They have to build trust, no? So, its not really a business. They compete, they deal with each other, not customers. They create business by selling shirts, tickets, whatnot like a "real sports team".
Real professional sports teams are businesses, regardless of how they started off. There really is no exception.
IF and when they can get a fan base. If Quantic had the fan base they prob couldve saved the team. We all watched Moneyball. We know how it works. The point is Quantic failed because it was run like a business and not a team. Real teams, Chelsea FC, the Patriots, Dream Team, all run like teams and not businesses. The concept of a team is always in the heart of an organization.
But the business they create allows them to make smart decisions. (Will I get banned for editing my comments many times?)
You watched Moneyball? OMG you must have a great understanding of finance and business...
In what way was Quantic run like a business? They did not put out consistent streams, popular events, or any sponsor promotion.
The Patriots are the most businesslike team in the NFL. Their players understand they are only good as their last season. The only real constant in their team since the Belichek era is Tom Brady and Vince Wilfork. It is because of the pressure and the lack of job security that keeps their players so prepared and motivated. The Pats front office is the best at quantifying a player's worth, this is the reason behind their success during the era of free agency.
You are obviously a finance and economics student. And I obviously dont care about that but you prob didnt even notice because all you care about is finance. Yes I watched Moneyball, no they did not mail me my economics degree from harvard with my netflix rental.
Couldnt even read your comment because I think you answered your own question but was too lazy to give a damn.
The quarterback is the most important part of the team and will never give him up. Period. I doubt they could afford any other group of players anyways.
I state about the financial state of starcraft 2 because it is THE most important factor in the future growth of the sport. Increase in the legitimacy of eSports is the ONLY thing I care about because with legitimacy success will fallow.
You stated that Quantic failed because of their businesslike attitude towards management. I simply listed the ways the didn't and ask you what they did do?
Patriots can "afford" to get higher paid players. They have structure their program so that they constantly cycle out cheap mid round players for high draft picks. Instead of overvaluing players because of a former peaks or players with character issues they maintain the attitude of accountability and professionalism that is completely unlike a "family" team of Tony Dungy or Jeff Fisher.
eSports can become a legitimate mainstream entertainment and games like Dota2 and LoL have made significant strides towards that direction. Starcraft 2, however has not adapted well to the new situation. Some of the entropy can be blamed on the stressful nature of RTS, but the lack of structure and organization has a large part to do with the failure to grow. If more teams take a professional attitude towards creating products that corporations want to purchase, so many wouldn't be going bankrupt. Teams should coach their players on how to talk to the media: presentation, diction, posture, and being politically correct.
Teams could: Add names of sponsors to their team title Flood their team shirts with logos: NASCAR style Have promotional deals for sponsor's products on website, stream content, ect Clearly and actively seek out the limelight to drop sponsors' names Run sponsor specific ads on their streams Put out exclusive PPV interactive events: starcraft 2 "class", lan/barcraft appearances, FFA goofing off Fan incorporation: sell touring packages of the house, buy an engraved rock on the team house/"friend" wall
I've seen high school football boosters do a better job at providing a marketable product to businesses. While the industry doesn't have an establish structure, the people involved in the management of these teams must start to establish themselves as a tangible product to their market instead of being merely housing and transportation for players.
we can still vote for them at Team Razer well, seems it really was unexpected for them, seeing that they just picked up a lol team one month ago. anyways - huge team, little success ;/ gl everyone
On December 05 2012 09:14 Cattlecruiser wrote: [quote]
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
I don't know how you would know the business model of EG. I HIGHLY DOUBT that she is the employee responsible for meeting with corporations for promotional/financial details.
Far as the celeb thing goes, she was/is as famous as any regional network reporter. Not a big deal, I could find more qualified/attractive FACE for the corporate reps at my university's communication major. EG is far from being anything close to a "wallstreet powerhouse", but they are the most professional/proactive organization in the business.
Marketing for eSports should resemble MLS teams, because both of their target audience share similar sociological factors that draw them in.
On December 05 2012 09:40 ViktorSC wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:14 Cattlecruiser wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:47 BlackVelvet wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
How are teams not a business? All real sport teams are run like a business. If this was 5 years ago when eSports was just a few nerds living in their parent's basement it would be a different story, but the scene has evolved to a semi-legitimacy. To get the best results, sponsorship, and more fans players must adapt to the market.
"All real sport teams are run like a business." First of all, all real sports teams, the best ones, started out as real teams. The reason they are so popular is through years of playing in a town or city. They have to build trust, no? So, its not really a business. They compete, they deal with each other, not customers. They create business by selling shirts, tickets, whatnot like a "real sports team".
Real professional sports teams are businesses, regardless of how they started off. There really is no exception.
IF and when they can get a fan base. If Quantic had the fan base they prob couldve saved the team. We all watched Moneyball. We know how it works. The point is Quantic failed because it was run like a business and not a team. Real teams, Chelsea FC, the Patriots, Dream Team, all run like teams and not businesses. The concept of a team is always in the heart of an organization.
But the business they create allows them to make smart decisions. (Will I get banned for editing my comments many times?)
loled so hard at part in which he says chelsea is run like a team... u sure? u think changing coaches and players every chance they can have is run like a team?
Not really. They literally picked up that team 1 month ago. It was probably a desperate attempt to save themselves by latching on to LoL in their dying last breath.
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote: [quote] To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
I don't know how you would know the business model of EG. I HIGHLY DOUBT that she is the employee responsible for meeting with corporations for promotional/financial details.
Far as the celeb thing goes, she was/is as famous as any regional network reporter. Not a big deal, I could find more qualified/attractive FACE for the corporate reps at my university's communication major. EG is far from being anything close to a "wallstreet powerhouse", but they are the most professional/proactive organization in the business.
Marketing for eSports should resemble MLS teams, because both of their target audience share similar sociological factors that draw them in.
On December 05 2012 09:40 ViktorSC wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:14 Cattlecruiser wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:47 BlackVelvet wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
How are teams not a business? All real sport teams are run like a business. If this was 5 years ago when eSports was just a few nerds living in their parent's basement it would be a different story, but the scene has evolved to a semi-legitimacy. To get the best results, sponsorship, and more fans players must adapt to the market.
"All real sport teams are run like a business." First of all, all real sports teams, the best ones, started out as real teams. The reason they are so popular is through years of playing in a town or city. They have to build trust, no? So, its not really a business. They compete, they deal with each other, not customers. They create business by selling shirts, tickets, whatnot like a "real sports team".
Real professional sports teams are businesses, regardless of how they started off. There really is no exception.
IF and when they can get a fan base. If Quantic had the fan base they prob couldve saved the team. We all watched Moneyball. We know how it works. The point is Quantic failed because it was run like a business and not a team. Real teams, Chelsea FC, the Patriots, Dream Team, all run like teams and not businesses. The concept of a team is always in the heart of an organization.
But the business they create allows them to make smart decisions. (Will I get banned for editing my comments many times?)
loled so hard at part in which he says chelsea is run like a team... u sure? u think changing coaches and players every chance they can have is run like a team?
look man, he watched money ball. And as everyone knows, that movie is about a Russian billionaire taking over a sports franchise and spending and spending and spending and spending hundreds of millions of dollars and never generating a profit. So the lesson for esports is clear, get Russian billionaires to start buying teams.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
I don't know how you would know the business model of EG. I HIGHLY DOUBT that she is the employee responsible for meeting with corporations for promotional/financial details.
Far as the celeb thing goes, she was/is as famous as any regional network reporter. Not a big deal, I could find more qualified/attractive FACE for the corporate reps at my university's communication major. EG is far from being anything close to a "wallstreet powerhouse", but they are the most professional/proactive organization in the business.
Marketing for eSports should resemble MLS teams, because both of their target audience share similar sociological factors that draw them in.
On December 05 2012 09:40 ViktorSC wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:14 Cattlecruiser wrote: [quote]
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
How are teams not a business? All real sport teams are run like a business. If this was 5 years ago when eSports was just a few nerds living in their parent's basement it would be a different story, but the scene has evolved to a semi-legitimacy. To get the best results, sponsorship, and more fans players must adapt to the market.
"All real sport teams are run like a business." First of all, all real sports teams, the best ones, started out as real teams. The reason they are so popular is through years of playing in a town or city. They have to build trust, no? So, its not really a business. They compete, they deal with each other, not customers. They create business by selling shirts, tickets, whatnot like a "real sports team".
Real professional sports teams are businesses, regardless of how they started off. There really is no exception.
IF and when they can get a fan base. If Quantic had the fan base they prob couldve saved the team. We all watched Moneyball. We know how it works. The point is Quantic failed because it was run like a business and not a team. Real teams, Chelsea FC, the Patriots, Dream Team, all run like teams and not businesses. The concept of a team is always in the heart of an organization.
But the business they create allows them to make smart decisions. (Will I get banned for editing my comments many times?)
You watched Moneyball? OMG you must have a great understanding of finance and business...
In what way was Quantic run like a business? They did not put out consistent streams, popular events, or any sponsor promotion.
The Patriots are the most businesslike team in the NFL. Their players understand they are only good as their last season. The only real constant in their team since the Belichek era is Tom Brady and Vince Wilfork. It is because of the pressure and the lack of job security that keeps their players so prepared and motivated. The Pats front office is the best at quantifying a player's worth, this is the reason behind their success during the era of free agency.
You are obviously a finance and economics student. And I obviously dont care about that but you prob didnt even notice because all you care about is finance. Yes I watched Moneyball, no they did not mail me my economics degree from harvard with my netflix rental.
Couldnt even read your comment because I think you answered your own question but was too lazy to give a damn.
The quarterback is the most important part of the team and will never give him up. Period. I doubt they could afford any other group of players anyways.
I state about the financial state of starcraft 2 because it is THE most important factor in the future growth of the sport. Increase in the legitimacy of eSports is the ONLY thing I care about because with legitimacy success will fallow.
You stated that Quantic failed because of their businesslike attitude towards management. I simply listed the ways the didn't and ask you what they did do?
Patriots can "afford" to get higher paid players. They have structure their program so that they constantly cycle out cheap mid round players for high draft picks. Instead of overvaluing players because of a former peaks or players with character issues they maintain the attitude of accountability and professionalism that is completely unlike a "family" team of Tony Dungy or Jeff Fisher.
eSports can become a legitimate mainstream entertainment and games like Dota2 and LoL have made significant strides towards that direction. Starcraft 2, however has not adapted well to the new situation. Some of the entropy can be blamed on the stressful nature of RTS, but the lack of structure and organization has a large part to do with the failure to grow. If more teams take a professional attitude towards creating products that corporations want to purchase, so many wouldn't be going bankrupt. Teams should coach their players on how to talk to the media: presentation, diction, posture, and being politically correct.
Teams could: Add names of sponsors to their team title Flood their team shirts with logos: NASCAR style Have promotional deals for sponsor's products on website, stream content, ect Clearly and actively seek out the limelight to drop sponsors' names Run sponsor specific ads on their streams Put out exclusive PPV interactive events: starcraft 2 "class", lan/barcraft appearances, FFA goofing off Fan incorporation: sell touring packages of the house, buy an engraved rock on the team house/"friend" wall
I've seen high school football boosters do a better job at providing a marketable product to businesses. While the industry doesn't have an establish structure, the people involved in the management of these teams must start to establish themselves as a tangible product to their market instead of being merely housing and transportation for players.
Patriots are rich, youre right, but they got bills.
EG Idra. People love him. Because he is himself. I know what you are saying about diction classes. But to give diction classes to Idra... That would just break my heart.
Those are very basic things to do that would for sure keep sponsors happy. but i dont like when players recite sponsors. thats why they have a logo on their streams, most teams do. what you are saying is correct, that is in fact the way to market with a team. but if people like me, esport fan, wants to see some plastic with a bunch of logos then ill just watch some nascar. the sponsors are there, people are just not looking hard enough. every team should be sponsored by a computer company, snack or beverage and an apparel company. that is the answer i was looking for. something to create synergy within the cashflow. the second thing is proper branding. quantic had an amazing name and logo but thats it. they never took the brand to a higher level. its prob easy for you to say all these things about playing with fans and such, because you might be a fan boy. but some players just cant do that. it ruins their game. which brings me to another point. THE most important thing a player must have is talent, they have to win games. really what they should be doing is finding cheap, sustainable ways of elevating their players game. normally i would charge you a dollar for this intel but maybe they should start vacationing koreans in the states. and play them intensively. all this stuff about going to korea is way to complicated. it works but not as well as you think. remember that nasl last year that was awesome. they were onto something except they messed it up and now people like other tournaments better and they abandoned the thing altogether. esports is on the upswing again and right now its up to all the tournaments to capitalize, in fact. mlg is a great tournament but they too had some big blunders. how ever will we get on espn?
quantic cared about the money more than their players. there are plenty of ways to make money in the states, in fact the market is completely open you could say. but they were all over seas, in korea, or somewhere else. when you care about the money more than the sport, even if its out of worry, you become a business and not a team. and who wants to support a team that is actually a business? no one because they are not a team.
On December 05 2012 12:39 black_ICE wrote: This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
I don't even know where to start breaking apart why this is wrong....I mean there's the terrifying news of sponsors pulling out of a team which, considering that's how basically every team survives is a terrifying concept. Or the loss or a very big team, regardless of their overall skill level or their higher skilled players, there was still a lot of players with quantic in their name, and because of this, I would be surprised if they could all manage to find teams again, because of the sudden influx of a disbanded team.
Honestly, that's ok for me. Not everyone who's moderately good at the game should be pro.
Finally, with the sponsors thing, true, quantic weren't at EG level with marketing their sponsors, but look at PsY and MaximusBlack. Neither of them at this stage are top tier pro players, in the sense of winning MLG, etc etc. But they aren't on the team for that reason. They are there to help promote sponsors, etc, because even if you aren't a top tier player, being a personality is it's own form of sponsor promotion, and I would argue more effective. A simple example of this would be incontrol. Regarless of results, everyone knows who he is, what team he's on, and their sponsors, and the amount of exposure the sponsors get because of that.
Incontrol and Destiny are the exceptions to the rule. For two years now, no one has been able to replicate the success that those two have gotten by being progamers with personality. Even Dragon was teamless for a while after Slayers despite being hilarious on stream and teamless again now. Until you mentioned it, I didn't know that's what MaximusBlack's role was on the team. I saw him being interviewed during a break at the last MLG and I had no idea who he even was. I don't think that's a reliable option to sustain a gaming career and attracting sponsors. Progamers should be about playing the game, fun personalities are a bonus. Pro athletes aren't picked because of their popularity to the masses, they are picked because of their skill at their given sports and their ability to win. Everybody loves a winner. When their ability diminishes, the ones with personalities retire and become commentators and analysts. The only "athletes" with personality are wrestlers, but I don't want SC2 to become a sideshow like that. Back in BW firebathero was an exception to the rule also, but he became popular because his wacky ceremonies came after he beat some heavy hitters at the time.
I'll take a leap and say a decent amount of the community have at least heard of MB, and he wasn't brought onto the team to be there as an athlete. You hadn't heard of him but I had. I hadn't heard of firebathero but you had, not everyone knows everyone in the scene. True, while there he has been improving and all that good stuff, but he was there as a personality. Yes, Destiny and Incontrol are exceptions to the rule, but they both were more player oriented rather than personality oriented. Everybody does love a winner, but saying that personalities aren't important is something that I would disagree with.
Here's a scenario, let's say that liquid picked up Husky as a personality (this is all hypothetical and first example that came to my mind), so he's not really going to be thrown into a roster as a player alongside people like hero or sea, who are massive powerhouses. I think that if something like this happened, liquid would probably have more people noticing them and cheering for them, because really Husky is such a big name in the community as a whole. It's a bad example but looking past that, I think you can see my point that personalities in teams I think do have a role to play. And I agree, players are picked for their skill, but I'm not seeing them as players so much. Yes MB has been playing and trying to improve, but the appeal he has over a lot of stronger players is the entertainment value.
And the other point about less players themselves, I still don't really see how having less players can be a good thing?
On December 05 2012 07:10 Epoch wrote: the "pro" gamer scene is waaaaaay over-saturated. that's why things like this happen. there's no money and sponsors for all these wannabe teams and pro-gamers. it's a lot tougher to be a pro then just being a ladder hero. you have to win events and actually draw a return for you investors. you have to have truly competitive players that have enough visibility to gain and promote sponsors.
i expect a similar fate for some other teams. i didn't necessarily think quantic would be one of them but it's no suprise at all to me.
gl to all the ex-quantic members
The problem isn’t over saturation. Try to name any of Quantics sponsors. That leads you to the right answer.
But.. but.. my Quantic! I had so much hope for them becoming a real flagship team for N.A. gaming, and now they're gone. I'm sure the players will have no trouble finding new homes given their talent and dedication, but for a whole organization to go under at the drop of a hat.. what awful news for e-sports generally. Well, here's to hoping for a Quantic revival some day.
On December 05 2012 18:13 droken wrote: Is there some other source for this other than Twitter? There's nothing anywhere about this and I thought it would be big news :o
This is like the first leaks on Twitter. I think we will here a full story, either by Quantic guys themselves or by Slasher sooner or later.
On December 05 2012 18:13 droken wrote: Is there some other source for this other than Twitter? There's nothing anywhere about this and I thought it would be big news :o
This is like the first leaks on Twitter. I think we will here a full story, either by Quantic guys themselves or by Slasher sooner or later.
Slasher has already posted an article on Gamespot about it.
like what can they bring ? they have alredy tone of players that are mediocre . be honest guys no one of you would put money in a buisness that is runned like this . however is a sad day for their good players such as golden , sase and thestc . Best of luck to their players and hope Sase gets picked up by a big team .
like what can they bring ? they have alredy tone of players that are mediocre . be honest guys no one of you would put money in a buisness that is runned like this . however is a sad day for their good players such as golden , sase and thestc . Best of luck to their players and hope Sase gets picked up by a big team .
By that logic the majority of foreign teams wouldn't have investors...
On December 05 2012 18:13 droken wrote: Is there some other source for this other than Twitter? There's nothing anywhere about this and I thought it would be big news :o
This is like the first leaks on Twitter. I think we will here a full story, either by Quantic guys themselves or by Slasher sooner or later.
Slasher has already posted an article on Gamespot about it.
like what can they bring ? they have alredy tone of players that are mediocre . be honest guys no one of you would put money in a buisness that is runned like this . however is a sad day for their good players such as golden , sase and thestc . Best of luck to their players and hope Sase gets picked up by a big team .
By that logic the majority of foreign teams wouldn't have investors...
not going on offtopic but tell me a team that have investors (not sponsors) and is doing bad at all games or atlast they get top 3-4 but never winning tournaments . btw sponsors want exposure if you pick up players like the one i quoted upper they will do good for sponsors cuz they streaming . if you have investors they want return of their investing money wich players that dont win tournaments are no good .
Looking at the comments section the mainstream guys aren't too kind about it.
I have read through the comments and What The Hell...
Why are people surprised that a company, who mainly hired 18-22 year olds is gone? Sure, it's unfortunate for the e-sports community. But I am really sad that kids, under the age of 18, aren't going to school and throw away their future for a unrealistic dream - i.e. Illusion. Even Idra said he wouldn't recommend his choice to go to Korea to anyone when he turned 18. He said he was really lucky (same as Geoff) to get where they are today, and they wouldn't recommend the same decisions to anyone unless they had a clear plan beyond gaming. In fact, Idra said it was a "stupid" choice at the time but ended up lucky. Anyone can see Incontrol is positioning himself out of gaming and into casting (self admittedly). It's like winning a lotto ticket at the right place and the right time for some of these guys.
I've been around playing BW (now SC2) when my college roomate introduced me to it in 2000. But who thinks dropping everything to become a progamer is honestly a good life decision in the long run? It is obviously only for people in a transitional point in their life. Video games are ultimately here for entertainment and only a very select few people can make a living out out it...that's reality.
On December 05 2012 18:13 droken wrote: Is there some other source for this other than Twitter? There's nothing anywhere about this and I thought it would be big news :o
This is like the first leaks on Twitter. I think we will here a full story, either by Quantic guys themselves or by Slasher sooner or later.
Slasher has already posted an article on Gamespot about it.
The comments on slashers article have made me sadder than I already was after reading about poor Quantic. It's like"main streamers" (i hate that term) don't even realise that football (soccer), rugby, hockey etc are all games.
The more people in a room the lower the average IQ... i guess?
Best of luck to the players, hope they find a team/sponsor soon.
Good riddance to be honest. Quantic was never a succesful and well-thoughtout team. If you look at the completely overinflated roster you can see that the team didn't think of it as professional itself. Instead of forming a smaller elite team like for example Teamliquid with only handpicked players Quantic was mostly consisting of NA semiprofessionals who had never any chance to be succesful.
Quantic was also a team which tried to add "special" non-professionals such as girls (Flo, Maddelisk) and most importantly MaximusBlack for short-term attention and media coverage. A team which pays money to an NA midmaster player is supposed to fail and I can only appreciate that. I don't know why so many people think of this as sad. It's the natural economic flow. Bad investments ultimately end in failure. It's only sad for the few real pros who have to find a new team now.
On December 05 2012 20:20 Rabiator wrote: Only one way to react as the community:
Who were the investors? Boycott them ... if only for the abandoning the people without any warning beforehand.
The fact that they invested in this project from the beginning you can only say, thank you!, to them, they really didn't have to do this, and Boycotting the people who invest in this Esports thing is the stupidest thing anybody can ever do.
Unfortunately the eSports scene isn't big enough to support a roster of good players. You need a true contender or you just won't be popular enough. It looks like Quantic invested heavily in their SC2 roster, but no one on that roster list is really a super marketable star. Even if they did have a marketable star, with the current SC2 scene stagnating it'll be hard to even turn a profit still when you are shipping players all around the world.
I don't even recognize anyone on their LoL roster.
On December 05 2012 20:59 hautfein wrote: Good riddance to be honest. Quantic was never a succesful and well-thoughtout team. If you look at the completely overinflated roster you can see that the team didn't think of it as professional itself. Instead of forming a smaller elite team like for example Teamliquid with only handpicked players Quantic was mostly consisting of NA semiprofessionals who had never any chance to be succesful.
Quantic was also a team which tried to add "special" non-professionals such as girls (Flo, Maddelisk) and most importantly MaximusBlack for short-term attention and media coverage. A team which pays money to an NA midmaster player is supposed to fail and I can only appreciate that. I don't know why so many people think of this as sad. It's the natural economic flow. Bad investments ultimately end in failure. It's only sad for the few real pros who have to find a new team now.
MaximusBlack was just brand awareness. Ever heard of advertising?
Agreed they didn't seem to have much of a core lineup but since they were new they were building their awareness which, assuming their funding that had been agreed upon continued they might've paid off.
On December 05 2012 20:20 Rabiator wrote: Only one way to react as the community:
Who were the investors? Boycott them ... if only for the abandoning the people without any warning beforehand.
In your "logic" it would be more fitting to boycott yourself. Why didnt you watch all their Players streams, wrote to the Sponsors how awesome Team Quantic is, donate Money? Huh? Yeah right, the sponsor is the big, bad evil guy and its not just about the lack of Fans, Attention and poorly management in terms of "how to generate money".
So read again pls. because its just an idiotic statement: "boycott the sponsors"...I wouldn't put my money in some Project anymore when I realize that the Management of it doesnt know how to use my investment properly and generate more money (after a while, Quantic had more than a while..). And yes, I know 100% of what I'm talking about, unlike most other "guessers".
Still a sad message, but when something gets more professional, the less professional managed teams disappear. Thats all. No offense in the direction of anyone at Quantic, but this is extremely bad luck or just bad management. And bad luck is very, very rarely the main point why something crashes after a long period of existing like Quantic-Gaming did.
i always looked at quantic as a stable and solid mid-tier team i think if they just had promoted themselfes abit more they could become even more popular since alot of their members were quite famous and liked compared to their sc2 skills :p maximusblack, spanishiwa and their female players not to forget that theyve got some highclass players aswell
On December 05 2012 21:36 ChriseC wrote: i always looked at quantic as a stable and solid mid-tier team i think if they just had promoted themselfes abit more they could become even more popular since alot of their members were quite famous and liked compared to their sc2 skills :p maximusblack, spanishiwa and their female players not to forget that theyve got some highclass players aswell
kinda sad anyone knows who their sponsors were?
I'm also sad that they disband but as somebody pointed out: paying people who are mid masters isn't the smartest thing to do with your money.
On December 05 2012 21:36 ChriseC wrote: i always looked at quantic as a stable and solid mid-tier team i think if they just had promoted themselfes abit more they could become even more popular since alot of their members were quite famous and liked compared to their sc2 skills :p maximusblack, spanishiwa and their female players not to forget that theyve got some highclass players aswell
kinda sad anyone knows who their sponsors were?
Your last Question implies the reason why Quantics sponsors cutted the money...
On December 05 2012 20:20 Rabiator wrote: Only one way to react as the community:
Who were the investors? Boycott them ... if only for the abandoning the people without any warning beforehand.
Sponsors =/= Investors. There is a huge difference between them and investors are leaving. Also it's the best way to make any other people/company who want to put money on eSport to turn to something else.
On December 05 2012 18:13 droken wrote: Is there some other source for this other than Twitter? There's nothing anywhere about this and I thought it would be big news :o
This is like the first leaks on Twitter. I think we will here a full story, either by Quantic guys themselves or by Slasher sooner or later.
Slasher has already posted an article on Gamespot about it.
On December 05 2012 18:13 droken wrote: Is there some other source for this other than Twitter? There's nothing anywhere about this and I thought it would be big news :o
This is like the first leaks on Twitter. I think we will here a full story, either by Quantic guys themselves or by Slasher sooner or later.
Slasher has already posted an article on Gamespot about it.
Soccer is a game which I love, Starcraft is a game which I love, why cant they both be professional, I should of listened and not looked at the comments section -_-
On December 05 2012 22:00 NumberFive wrote: HOLY SHIT the gamespot link killed me inside. People, please do NOT read the comment section on that.
You realize the more you hype up the badness of something the more you attract people to read it just to watch the train wreck and feel morally superior. Just ignore them and don't post.
Wow... I didn't realize those comments would be so awful lol. I clicked thinking "it won't be that bad". Well, it was. People are assholes. Had to resist the urge to post. Not like it would do any good I suppose.
Too bad I'm not some wealthy oil sheikh else I'd sponsor Quantic Gaming for sure. Hope everyone finds a new and warm place and don't lose their hope in eSports.
On December 05 2012 22:50 NotoriousBig wrote: Hope Sase joins EG or Liquid and plays in Proleague, he would deserve it and he´s also good enough.
I'd hope that they could add Illusion, maybe STC and maybe State as well xD Doubt that will actually happen but I really believe in Illusion and he has shown himself capable of taking games and even series off of the toughest Korean opponents (maybe not KeSPA players yet).
Very sad! I loved the Quantic-Streams, especially Flo's, illu's and Apoc's! I hope they quickly find new teams! I hope that not all small teams are going to disband now
I'm glad the investors are at least working to try and find places for their players/teams. Hopefully things go well for all of the players involved, this is a pretty shitty situation
looks like you cant just recruit 20 players and hope that one of them wins something. its sad to see them go, but it was forseeable, they only had 4-5 players that could place high in tourneys
On December 05 2012 22:16 ayaz2810 wrote: Wow... I didn't realize those comments would be so awful lol. I clicked thinking "it won't be that bad". Well, it was. People are assholes. Had to resist the urge to post. Not like it would do any good I suppose.
wow, i refuse to believe those comments were real. Most sites don't have the moderation team of Liquid, so I'm pretty sure 70% of those posts were pure trolls.
On December 05 2012 20:42 lordvnm wrote: And nothing of value was lost...
Define value?
Value is the worth I personally attribute to a thing.
Yeah so, nothing of value to you was lost.
Not 'nothing of value was lost', because if it's down to a personal interpretation of value, then I feel Quantic added a lot to the scene in certain ways
Maybe this will be a wake up call to those preaching the inevitable success of SC2. Just because some people on certain teams get raises, or people that work for Twitch say the numbers are fine, doesn't mean it's the truth. Not fostering the growth of non-Korean teams, accepting the faults of SC2, and pushing Blizzard could result in a niche market for SC2.
On December 06 2012 03:00 LiquidSlick wrote: Maybe this will be a wake up call to those preaching the inevitable success of SC2. Just because some people on certain teams get raises, or people that work for Twitch say the numbers are fine, doesn't mean it's the truth. Not fostering the growth of non-Korean teams, accepting the faults of SC2, and pushing Blizzard could result in a niche market for SC2.
I hope that isn't the case.
Who is preaching the inevitable success of sc2? Several good teams have disbanded for no good reason, top sc2 stars are switching to LoL, and the number of viewers are slowly declining.
As much as I love sc2 and want it to succeed, right now its not happening. Its not like people haven't tried either. This is the most hardworking community of any game ever. Tbh I don't know what we should do at this point.
I'm referring to very specific incidents in recent history Excludos. I think anyone that is looking at the scene for SC2 logically would agree with you. I think certain "celebrities" in the scene end up hurting it by acting like nothing is wrong. They show a complete lack of understanding of the business world in general though.
On December 06 2012 03:00 LiquidSlick wrote: Maybe this will be a wake up call to those preaching the inevitable success of SC2. Just because some people on certain teams get raises, or people that work for Twitch say the numbers are fine, doesn't mean it's the truth. Not fostering the growth of non-Korean teams, accepting the faults of SC2, and pushing Blizzard could result in a niche market for SC2.
I hope that isn't the case.
Might want to re-read. It's their whole team, not only the SC2 part that's closing down.
On December 06 2012 03:00 LiquidSlick wrote: Maybe this will be a wake up call to those preaching the inevitable success of SC2. Just because some people on certain teams get raises, or people that work for Twitch say the numbers are fine, doesn't mean it's the truth. Not fostering the growth of non-Korean teams, accepting the faults of SC2, and pushing Blizzard could result in a niche market for SC2.
I hope that isn't the case.
Might want to re-read. It's their whole team, not only the SC2 part that's closing down.
If he was wrong, then wouldn't at least their SC2 team still be operating? Or are you saying all their non-SC2 ventures dragged SC2 down with them? I think you might be the one who needs to re-read.
He's right that success with SC2 isn't easy or automatic. Even though there are opportunities, there are still a lot of tough decisions to make and hard work to do and not just anyone can try to go into business in the SC2 scene and be successful. It's the same everywhere. Most will fail and most who make it will just stay afloat. A minority of all possible ventures will see significant longterm gains.
I know this is offtopic, but since we're on the subject anyways. Do you think the decline of viewers in sc2 over the last year is due to stagnant metagame? I mean, I had pretty much quit playing myself because I honestly thought it was getting boring. But now that I've had the chance to play HOTS, I feel like the fun is returning due to all the options I suddenly have in my gameplay.
it might just be me, but its really been a long time since last I saw a "whoa omg!" moment in a sc2 match.
Now that we all know the logic behind Quantic failing, doesn't it seem pretty easy to see where the fault lies? They took on way too many players, without securing any major sponsorships. If you look at Axiom they are doing the exact opposite strategy--taking on only a few players, and leveraging them to grab some solid sponsors.
It sounds to me like the owners of Quantic were some independently wealthy ppl who have steady jobs and money in the bank, and they wanted to make a great eSports team. A noble idea, but you really have to get your hands dirty to turn a profit with SC2. ROOT is a team that is not afraid of getting involved, but lacks strong financial backing. Too bad these 2 teams didn't joint forces or something.
On December 06 2012 03:00 LiquidSlick wrote: Maybe this will be a wake up call to those preaching the inevitable success of SC2. Just because some people on certain teams get raises, or people that work for Twitch say the numbers are fine, doesn't mean it's the truth. Not fostering the growth of non-Korean teams, accepting the faults of SC2, and pushing Blizzard could result in a niche market for SC2.
I hope that isn't the case.
Might want to re-read. It's their whole team, not only the SC2 part that's closing down.
If he was wrong, then wouldn't at least their SC2 team still be operating? Or are you saying all their non-SC2 ventures dragged SC2 down with them? I think you might be the one who needs to re-read.
He's right that success with SC2 isn't easy or automatic. Even though there are opportunities, there are still a lot of tough decisions to make and hard work to do and not just anyone can try to go into business in the SC2 scene and be successful. It's the same everywhere. Most will fail and most who make it will just stay afloat. A minority of all possible ventures will see significant longterm gains.
You actually might need to re-read as well, apparently the funding to the team was cut off without anyone knowing anything. Pretty sure that's not indicative of SC2 dieing, or any other esport title dieing, it is bad management. No way can you run a team with a few top level players without any money. They seemed to do pretty well before when they had exposure, but now since they don't have exposure, and didn't even try to put themselves onto the market they're forced into nothing.
As much as I would love to say this is a surprise, sadly it isn't a shocking one. So many teams operate on a day to day basis and while this may have been an abrupt realization to the Quantic staff, it is something that you have to deal with in the fickle nature of this business. Sadly teams aren't working together to make things profitable which scares me because honestly the only viable team outside of Korean is EG. Everyone else is making minimal gains or simply riding the ebb and flow of esports. Hopefully something can be done and Riot, Blizzard, Valve, Treyarch, campcom, and others will come together and realize this has to be a joint effort. If everyone wants this to succeed I truly believe it is a viable business venture but until then, we will continue to see disappointments and shortcomings of teams.
On December 06 2012 03:38 Excludos wrote: I know this is offtopic, but since we're on the subject anyways. Do you think the decline of viewers in sc2 over the last year is due to stagnant metagame? I mean, I had pretty much quit playing myself because I honestly thought it was getting boring. But now that I've had the chance to play HOTS, I feel like the fun is returning due to all the options I suddenly have in my gameplay.
it might just be me, but its really been a long time since last I saw a "whoa omg!" moment in a sc2 match.
I totally agree. There's only a few moments left, like when a baneling bomb kills 40+ marines or a hunter seeker missle makes a big hit. Watching the same units and strategies over and over got stale.
A stagnant metagame is not the problem no, not at a fundamental level
The current stagnant metagame that we currently have is the problem.
Consider for example, Brood War. I mean, the last few years of it probably saw a stagnant overall metagame, but it was still pretty popular right til the end of its lifespan as a televised Esport
On December 06 2012 03:00 LiquidSlick wrote: Maybe this will be a wake up call to those preaching the inevitable success of SC2. Just because some people on certain teams get raises, or people that work for Twitch say the numbers are fine, doesn't mean it's the truth. Not fostering the growth of non-Korean teams, accepting the faults of SC2, and pushing Blizzard could result in a niche market for SC2.
I hope that isn't the case.
Might want to re-read. It's their whole team, not only the SC2 part that's closing down.
If he was wrong, then wouldn't at least their SC2 team still be operating? Or are you saying all their non-SC2 ventures dragged SC2 down with them? I think you might be the one who needs to re-read.
He's right that success with SC2 isn't easy or automatic. Even though there are opportunities, there are still a lot of tough decisions to make and hard work to do and not just anyone can try to go into business in the SC2 scene and be successful. It's the same everywhere. Most will fail and most who make it will just stay afloat. A minority of all possible ventures will see significant longterm gains.
You actually might need to re-read as well, apparently the funding to the team was cut off without anyone knowing anything. Pretty sure that's not indicative of SC2 dieing, or any other esport title dieing, it is bad management. No way can you run a team with a few top level players without any money. They seemed to do pretty well before when they had exposure, but now since they don't have exposure, and didn't even try to put themselves onto the market they're forced into nothing.
What am I re-reading exactly? The fact that the investors lost faith in the venture doesn't have bearing on the arguments you've quoted.
I don't know why you are talking about SC2 dying. We haven't been talking about SC2 dying. We've been talking about whether or not doing business in SC2 means automatic success. This whole "you need to re-read" line is getting old but really you ought to re-read what LiquidSlick wrote. His first sentence is key here:
Maybe this will be a wake up call to those preaching the inevitable success of SC2.
He's addressing the people with their head in the clouds who think that any old group of people who aren't complete idiots and have an ounce of motivation can get into the SC2 esports business and be successful. He's not talking about SC2 dying. He's just denying the ideas of the irrationally optimistic people who think this whole thing is a big money-grab.
On December 06 2012 03:00 LiquidSlick wrote: Maybe this will be a wake up call to those preaching the inevitable success of SC2. Just because some people on certain teams get raises, or people that work for Twitch say the numbers are fine, doesn't mean it's the truth. Not fostering the growth of non-Korean teams, accepting the faults of SC2, and pushing Blizzard could result in a niche market for SC2.
I hope that isn't the case.
Might want to re-read. It's their whole team, not only the SC2 part that's closing down.
If he was wrong, then wouldn't at least their SC2 team still be operating? Or are you saying all their non-SC2 ventures dragged SC2 down with them? I think you might be the one who needs to re-read.
He's right that success with SC2 isn't easy or automatic. Even though there are opportunities, there are still a lot of tough decisions to make and hard work to do and not just anyone can try to go into business in the SC2 scene and be successful. It's the same everywhere. Most will fail and most who make it will just stay afloat. A minority of all possible ventures will see significant longterm gains.
You actually might need to re-read as well, apparently the funding to the team was cut off without anyone knowing anything. Pretty sure that's not indicative of SC2 dieing, or any other esport title dieing, it is bad management. No way can you run a team with a few top level players without any money. They seemed to do pretty well before when they had exposure, but now since they don't have exposure, and didn't even try to put themselves onto the market they're forced into nothing.
The funding being pulled out is the point. If it isn't generating a profit then investors don't keep putting money into it. In this economy it needs to be a pretty good investment to get investors. This type of thing is common. If the game is not generating interest etc. then it will be specifically SC2 teams dying. I just think Quantic's closing shows how fragile the E-sports market is in general. When you look at events like LOL Championships, etc.. you see what a good business venture can offer. People in this community always focused on THE GAME, and they don't realize it's all about the money. No return = no investment.
To clarify, I am not talking about the death of E-sports. I'm saying it doesn't happen just because you have good players or an abundance of sponsors RIGHT NOW even. Its fragile, and the community, and the leaders in it need to understand the ramifications of that.
To further clarify, if their SC2 team was the HUGE profitable and growing endeavor... its not like investors would just back out.
Most of the so called "Teams" of the current SC2 Scene are amateurs and don't have a clue about what it actually takes to run a successful organization in the long term and earn consistent income as a company. Because that's what they are, an organizational company based on driving income from their players, and if you look at statistics regarding company startups 25-50% of them fail after one year. After the second year additional 36% fails, and during the third year 44% of those who still remain also fails. Of those who still operate after four years there still is a failure rate between 37 to 58% depending on what industry you are in.
Regardless of the outcome or success of the SC2 scene we would still see allot of failures, even in the IT industry during the IT bubble when people were throwing money at any company claiming to be in IT there was still an overall 50% long term failure rate for that particular industry.
To further clarify, if there SC2 team was the HUGE profitable and growing endeavor... its not like investors would just back out.
This is basically it, Quantic failed at some point in its operations to monetize the team in a manner that would compensate investors. Whether through streaming, tournament performance or just over extension It isn't terribly complicated.
On December 06 2012 03:00 LiquidSlick wrote: Maybe this will be a wake up call to those preaching the inevitable success of SC2. Just because some people on certain teams get raises, or people that work for Twitch say the numbers are fine, doesn't mean it's the truth. Not fostering the growth of non-Korean teams, accepting the faults of SC2, and pushing Blizzard could result in a niche market for SC2.
I hope that isn't the case.
Might want to re-read. It's their whole team, not only the SC2 part that's closing down.
If he was wrong, then wouldn't at least their SC2 team still be operating? Or are you saying all their non-SC2 ventures dragged SC2 down with them? I think you might be the one who needs to re-read.
He's right that success with SC2 isn't easy or automatic. Even though there are opportunities, there are still a lot of tough decisions to make and hard work to do and not just anyone can try to go into business in the SC2 scene and be successful. It's the same everywhere. Most will fail and most who make it will just stay afloat. A minority of all possible ventures will see significant longterm gains.
You actually might need to re-read as well, apparently the funding to the team was cut off without anyone knowing anything. Pretty sure that's not indicative of SC2 dieing, or any other esport title dieing, it is bad management. No way can you run a team with a few top level players without any money. They seemed to do pretty well before when they had exposure, but now since they don't have exposure, and didn't even try to put themselves onto the market they're forced into nothing.
What am I re-reading exactly? The fact that the investors lost faith in the venture doesn't have bearing on the arguments you've quoted.
I don't know why you are talking about SC2 dying. We haven't been talking about SC2 dying. We've been talking about whether or not doing business in SC2 means automatic success. This whole "you need to re-read" line is getting old but really you ought to re-read what LiquidSlick wrote. His first sentence is key here:
Maybe this will be a wake up call to those preaching the inevitable success of SC2.
He's addressing the people with their head in the clouds who think that any old group of people who aren't complete idiots and have an ounce of motivation can get into the SC2 esports business and be successful. He's not talking about SC2 dying. He's just denying the ideas of the irrationally optimistic people who think this whole thing is a big money-grab.
It's this part that suggests something different though:
or people that work for Twitch say the numbers are fine, doesn't mean it's the truth.
I think he's talking about DJ Wheat there. Wheat was talking about all Twich's streaming numbers, not SC2's. This was one of the big misunderstandings of the recent itg drama.
I was referring to that yes, but in a more general sense. It doesn't undercut my point about people preaching the inevitable success of SC2 though. My main point is this: The scene for SC2 needs to be thought of as extremely fragile. Good decisions, good opportunities, and a good game are all important. Good players do not make a successful team.
On December 06 2012 04:06 LiquidSlick wrote: I was referring to that yes, but in a more general sense. It doesn't undercut my point about people preaching the inevitable success of SC2 though. My main point is this: The scene for SC2 needs to be thought of as extremely fragile. Good decisions, good opportunities, and a good game are all important. Good players do not make a successful team.
It doesn't but I understand why he replyed what he did because of that part.
On December 06 2012 03:53 LiquidSlick wrote: To further clarify, if their SC2 team was the HUGE profitable and growing endeavor... its not like investors would just back out.
That's a false argument. Investors can (and often do) stop backing up ventures because they think it's not going to be worth it now or in the long term. Basically there is little logic in the world of venture capitalism, and it's not because a company is profitable that it is profitable enough to be invested in.
Quantic got overshadowed by bigger teams, Acer, EG, Liquid.
If I was Illusion I would like to join Axiom, he would be a beautiful fit for what they are doing over there. Sase should be the new coach of Vile. Flo should join the new EG/Liquid merger so they have a female to compete with Acer.
On December 06 2012 03:57 Integra wrote: Most of the so called "Teams" of the current SC2 Scene are amateurs and don't have a clue about what it actually takes to run a successful organization in the long term and earn consistent income as a company. Because that's what they are, an organizational company based on driving income from their players, and if you look at statistics regarding company startups 25-50% of them fail after one year. After the second year additional 36% fails, and during the third year 44% of those who still remain also fails. Of those who still operate after four years there still is a failure rate between 37 to 58% depending on what industry you are in.
Regardless of the outcome or success of the SC2 scene we would still see allot of failures, even in the IT industry during the IT bubble when people were throwing money at any company claiming to be in IT there was still an overall 50% long term failure rate for that particular industry.
That's actually a very good point, I guess SCII scene is not immune to it, still sad about the disbanding
Sad news. But it seems to be the way things are trending.
I don't think esports will grow as big as a lot of people thought it could be. At least, not in the next ten years. The money isn't there to support all the SC2 teams and tournaments that exist right now, and its only going to keep shrinking. I'm not expecting the SC2 scene to die, I just think its going to have to shed a lot of weight. But there is nothing wrong with a lean focused scene, in my opinion. Having fewer teams and fewer tournaments makes each event more meaningful and exciting.
On December 06 2012 05:42 itkovian wrote: Sad news. But it seems to be the way things are trending.
I don't think esports will grow as big as a lot of people thought it could be. At least, not in the next ten years. The money isn't there to support all the SC2 teams and tournaments that exist right now, and its only going to keep shrinking. I'm not expecting the SC2 scene to die, I just think its going to have to shed a lot of weight. But there is nothing wrong with a lean focused scene, in my opinion. Having fewer teams and fewer tournaments makes each event more meaningful and exciting.
That is a pretty good point you have, maybe we can try to keep a positive head space about this. I hope all the Quantic Gaming players find a new team , and fast! Especially TheOgnis, he is a true broodwar legend that deserves a team. I think you should try to join SKT1 practice partner theo! GL all QxG~ I met a lot of QxG's players at past two MLG colombus's, and they are quite an amazing group of players and people, I don't really feel the same if it was a different team disbanding, I think that these players really DESERVE to be picked up asap, god bless~
To further clarify, if there SC2 team was the HUGE profitable and growing endeavor... its not like investors would just back out.
This is basically it, Quantic failed at some point in its operations to monetize the team in a manner that would compensate investors. Whether through streaming, tournament performance or just over extension It isn't terribly complicated.
Speaking from an inside perspective on Quantic, and on the scene in general:
I highly doubt that ANY team properly monetizes it's PLAYERS in such a way that it compensates investors. With VERY FEW exceptions, the entire scene is largely funded by personal funding from team owners, venture capitalists and other investors.
On December 06 2012 05:42 itkovian wrote: Sad news. But it seems to be the way things are trending.
I don't think esports will grow as big as a lot of people thought it could be. At least, not in the next ten years. The money isn't there to support all the SC2 teams and tournaments that exist right now, and its only going to keep shrinking. I'm not expecting the SC2 scene to die, I just think its going to have to shed a lot of weight. But there is nothing wrong with a lean focused scene, in my opinion. Having fewer teams and fewer tournaments makes each event more meaningful and exciting.
This is a great way to look at this situation. I can also see this happening to other teams as well. What many teams should do is take notes from teams like TL and EG. These teams produce content and have a really good interaction/standing with fans. You don't have to consistently win tournaments to have a successful team. You have to have the fan base and support to have a successful team. I mean winning does help with team success but I think it doesn't have as great of an impact as other things. I hope all of the Quantic players can find new teams.
On December 06 2012 05:42 itkovian wrote: Sad news. But it seems to be the way things are trending.
I don't think esports will grow as big as a lot of people thought it could be. At least, not in the next ten years. The money isn't there to support all the SC2 teams and tournaments that exist right now, and its only going to keep shrinking. I'm not expecting the SC2 scene to die, I just think its going to have to shed a lot of weight. But there is nothing wrong with a lean focused scene, in my opinion. Having fewer teams and fewer tournaments makes each event more meaningful and exciting.
You captured it , fewer number of teams with cut to the bone budgets. Mid tier teams will find it hard to compete with the Elite EGs and TLs as the marketing dollars follow the stars.
Sounds like Quantic was living beyond its means. I mean, who can afford a team house in Southern Cali with pools and amenities, when your financial situation is not sustainable? Seems some scaling back would've been needed.
On December 06 2012 09:40 Pittski wrote: So, what about player contracts that were signed? Or Is it the equivalent to a company filing bankruptcy and now don't have to pay them.
When a company files for bankruptcy and the contract not directly states what is to be done during a bankruptcy then you have to turn to whatever party that the bankruptcy was filed to since they now own the company and its process of said bankruptcy. They are the only ones now, not the actual owners, that has any legal power of the company.
I would assume something similar happens in this case as well unless they get some deal with the players.
The tweet was just to make flo feel better, Shes not on or going to be on star tale lol.
flow is only mid master NA and low master on KR....That picure u linked is of another South Korean female in GM, That picture does not even look close to flo, Flo has a tats to.
There is another female that has always been on star_tale, and her name is GaYoung Kim...aka Startale_Aphrodite, Not our flo.http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Aphrodite
On December 06 2012 10:06 Kep wrote: Liquid'Illusion. Would be great for both individual and team
There are a lot of Liquid guys who fancy the little Terran.
I wouldn't be shocked if we ever see him in the white and blue.
yeah, I could definitely see that. That would be good on all ends in my opinion. Since Jinro left, there is a large hole that the Gorilla terran left in our hearts and TL's depth. I would love Liquid`Illusion
To further clarify, if there SC2 team was the HUGE profitable and growing endeavor... its not like investors would just back out.
This is basically it, Quantic failed at some point in its operations to monetize the team in a manner that would compensate investors. Whether through streaming, tournament performance or just over extension It isn't terribly complicated.
Speaking from an inside perspective on Quantic, and on the scene in general:
I highly doubt that ANY team properly monetizes it's PLAYERS in such a way that it compensates investors. With VERY FEW exceptions, the entire scene is largely funded by personal funding from team owners, venture capitalists and other investors.
Yes, but people aren't in the habit of throwing money away. They are spending on/sponsoring teams for an eventual return.
I think we would all say that we want E-sports to grow, but what does that mean? I would contend that for E-sports to be heading in the right direction (this is obviously aimed at SC2 teams, but is important for E-sports in general) that the number of viable career paths in that specific market need to be on the rise. This is far different from people professing the success of SC2 based solely on the fact its carried on some of the legacy of SC1. Not saying that it hasn't grown, but I think because of certain decisions the market is inherently limited. Teams like Quantic will continue to go under because of it as well.
I think 3 things that have caused this are: 1. Koreans being allowed to compete in every NA event and take most of the prize pool back to Korea. 2. The game itself has been severely limited. 3. Not fully engaging the investment/return aspect of growing a scene like this.
Regardless, at the end of it all I feel bad for the players. I hope they find teams. I hope SC2 grows.
The tweet was just to make flo feel better, Shes not on or going to be on star tale lol.
flow is only mid master NA and low master on KR....That picure u linked is of another South Korean female in GM, That picture does not even look close to flo, Flo has a tats to.
There is another female that has always been on star_tale, and her name is GaYoung Kim...aka Startale_Aphrodite, Not our flo.http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Aphrodite
That picture?
Aphrodite made that tweet yeah, and flo replied on that tweet just saying "<3" (in case you didn't notice that part), the guy wasn't implying that status was from flo herself or anything like that, just so you know.
Paves the way to Liquid'Flo, probably the second best possible name other than Liquid'Sea, of course.
Oh, and of course, this is sad and all. When SlayerS died, we all said "Well yeah, Korean team with no money and crazy management." But now that Quantic has died, it really brings the volatility of teams into much more of a discerning light.
Flo just tweeted this: flo yao @Quanticflo RT @MIONIX: Spent the last 48hrs trying to save @QuanticGaming, but we have run out of time, Sorry but we tried. #RIPQuantic
On December 07 2012 12:01 ChuCky.Ca wrote: MIONIX @MIONIX
You all should know that @mionix has spent the last 48hrs trying to save @QuanticGaming but we have run out of time, Sorry but we tried
That just pisses me off. Basically this means that if the investors hadn't pulled the plug so quickly, Quantic could now be up and running again with Mionix?
On December 07 2012 12:01 ChuCky.Ca wrote: MIONIX @MIONIX
You all should know that @mionix has spent the last 48hrs trying to save @QuanticGaming but we have run out of time, Sorry but we tried
That just pisses me off. Basically this means that if the investors hadn't pulled the plug so quickly, Quantic could now be up and running again with Mionix?
Not sure, maybe Mionix alone didn't have the cash to keep it afloat.
Regardless, Mionix's relative transparency in their dealings with the E-sports scene, including having a TL presence is great. I love their approach to the extent that my next mouse is definitely going to be one of theirs!
On December 07 2012 12:01 ChuCky.Ca wrote: MIONIX @MIONIX
You all should know that @mionix has spent the last 48hrs trying to save @QuanticGaming but we have run out of time, Sorry but we tried
That just pisses me off. Basically this means that if the investors hadn't pulled the plug so quickly, Quantic could now be up and running again with Mionix?
Nope, that's not what it means at all. It means Mionix saw what they thought was a great opportunity to become a major sponsor 'saving' a team. But as it turned out, the financial & organizational problems at Quantic were larger than Mionix had the ability to fix on their own.
(all this with a big probably)
Mionix could, of course, save the team by providing virtually all the money necessary to run it. But while Mionix is looking to get into the esports market (good for them!), they're not a huge company like a lot of other esports sponsors. That level of financial commitment is probably too much for them.
As a very, very happy owner of a Mionix Naos 3200 I'm happy to see them looking to expand their esports involvement beyond Naniwa, and I take this as a sign they are looking for other notable sponsorship opportunities.
P.S. And seriously, the Mionix Naos 3200 is really comfy. I even recommend it to non-gamers (with the internal LED turned off, of course).
On December 07 2012 12:01 ChuCky.Ca wrote: MIONIX @MIONIX
You all should know that @mionix has spent the last 48hrs trying to save @QuanticGaming but we have run out of time, Sorry but we tried
That just pisses me off. Basically this means that if the investors hadn't pulled the plug so quickly, Quantic could now be up and running again with Mionix?
Nope, that's not what it means at all. It means Mionix saw what they thought was a great opportunity to become a major sponsor 'saving' a team. But as it turned out, the financial & organizational problems at Quantic were larger than Mionix had the ability to fix on their own.
(all this with a big probably)
Mionix could, of course, save the team by providing virtually all the money necessary to run it. But while Mionix is looking to get into the esports market (good for them!), they're not a huge company like a lot of other esports sponsors. That level of financial commitment is probably too much for them.
As a very, very happy owner of a Mionix Naos 3200 I'm happy to see them looking to expand their esports involvement beyond Naniwa, and I take this as a sign they are looking for other notable sponsorship opportunities.
P.S. And seriously, the Mionix Naos 3200 is really comfy. I even recommend it to non-gamers (with the internal LED turned off, of course).
Well, I'm basing it off their comment on "ran out of time". Which basically means they could have done it they had the investors mentioned the problems a bit earlier instead of pulling the plug at the last second and booting everyone.
And yes, the Mionix mouses are incredible. How on earth they managed that for such a new company don't know. I think my next one will probably be a Mionix as well.
Well I was assuming "ran out of time" meant, "turned out they needed another partner or two to make up for the investors leaving, and couldn't find them in time". And I don't really blame the investors for pulling out what seems to be quickly. From the reddit thing in the OP the company had growing problems that just weren't public and this is actually a decision that'd been in the works for a bit. So I guess we kind of see the same thing another way, heh.
Quantic is handling this disbanding pretty well, from what I see. It's just such a shame to see it happen. I was always optimistic about their team, but optimism only goes so far.
It's pretty cool how once again we see the business side really works:
"You'd be surprised how little winning tournaments and sponsorships/stream revenue have to do with each other. Fan engagement and sponsor effort matters way, way more."
Which explains why EG is always described as a marketing company who invests it's profits into various e-sports teams.
On December 15 2012 07:04 mikkmagro wrote: Only 2 from 16 players have found a new team so far, and one of them is not even a pro team.
DdoRo -> ROOT Gaming Spanishiwa -> Soviet Gaming
Apocalypse and Maximusblack to It'sGosu and Theognis to ROOT as well.
Of the rest, only Golden, TheStC, Sase, and maybe illusion would be worth picking up. Hashe, hawk (was good for like, a month during one of the IPTL seasons), Agh, Maddelisk, State, Chance, and flo haven't really posted any meaningful results like ever...
Sad that the team disbanded, but they had a lot of what I would view as semi-pros (especially those from vile) and I don't think that any of the good QxG'ers will fail to find a home.
I still really bad for the LoL team. They had all of the guys on Orb, and then they switched to quantic, and then not three weeks into their existence were they teamless again LOL. They are now NomNom, but that isn't exactly a quality brand compared to QxG. I wonder what will happen to the BF3 community that formed around the Quantic site O.o
On December 15 2012 07:04 mikkmagro wrote: Only 2 from 16 players have found a new team so far, and one of them is not even a pro team.
DdoRo -> ROOT Gaming Spanishiwa -> Soviet Gaming
Sad that the team disbanded, but they had a lot of what I would view as semi-pros (especially those from vile) and I don't think that any of the good QxG'ers will fail to find a home.
good being the operative word here. quantic was full of so much excess baggage that it was quite ridiculous.
On December 15 2012 07:04 mikkmagro wrote: Only 2 from 16 players have found a new team so far, and one of them is not even a pro team.
DdoRo -> ROOT Gaming Spanishiwa -> Soviet Gaming
Sad that the team disbanded, but they had a lot of what I would view as semi-pros (especially those from vile) and I don't think that any of the good QxG'ers will fail to find a home.
good being the operative word here. quantic was full of so much excess baggage that it was quite ridiculous.
EPT
. Best of luck to all the players it's really saddening to see but hopefully everyone will find a home.
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