On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote: [quote] To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
You know Anna doesn't run EG, right? She's a content producer. She's involved in the team because Geoff is.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
I don't know how you would know the business model of EG. I HIGHLY DOUBT that she is the employee responsible for meeting with corporations for promotional/financial details.
Far as the celeb thing goes, she was/is as famous as any regional network reporter. Not a big deal, I could find more qualified/attractive FACE for the corporate reps at my university's communication major. EG is far from being anything close to a "wallstreet powerhouse", but they are the most professional/proactive organization in the business.
Marketing for eSports should resemble MLS teams, because both of their target audience share similar sociological factors that draw them in.
On December 05 2012 09:40 ViktorSC wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:14 Cattlecruiser wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:47 BlackVelvet wrote:
On December 05 2012 08:27 Zzoram wrote: Not a surprise.
I still don't know who the sponsors of Quantic Gaming were.
The only teams I know the sponsors of are Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid among foreign teams.
I know StarTale and LG-IM's main sponsors too.
It's no wonder that sponsors are realizing their SC2 teams aren't worth the money when their players can't be bothered to remember to say 3 words at the end of every interview.
Yeah. Makes me wonder if EG is too much at the center of things in eSports that other teams (such as Quantic) fall by the wayside. That and there's a lack of growth so its sort of a survival of the richest.
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
How are teams not a business? All real sport teams are run like a business. If this was 5 years ago when eSports was just a few nerds living in their parent's basement it would be a different story, but the scene has evolved to a semi-legitimacy. To get the best results, sponsorship, and more fans players must adapt to the market.
"All real sport teams are run like a business." First of all, all real sports teams, the best ones, started out as real teams. The reason they are so popular is through years of playing in a town or city. They have to build trust, no? So, its not really a business. They compete, they deal with each other, not customers. They create business by selling shirts, tickets, whatnot like a "real sports team".
Real professional sports teams are businesses, regardless of how they started off. There really is no exception.
IF and when they can get a fan base. If Quantic had the fan base they prob couldve saved the team. We all watched Moneyball. We know how it works. The point is Quantic failed because it was run like a business and not a team. Real teams, Chelsea FC, the Patriots, Dream Team, all run like teams and not businesses. The concept of a team is always in the heart of an organization.
But the business they create allows them to make smart decisions. (Will I get banned for editing my comments many times?)
loled so hard at part in which he says chelsea is run like a team... u sure? u think changing coaches and players every chance they can have is run like a team?
look man, he watched money ball. And as everyone knows, that movie is about a Russian billionaire taking over a sports franchise and spending and spending and spending and spending hundreds of millions of dollars and never generating a profit. So the lesson for esports is clear, get Russian billionaires to start buying teams.
Seriously somebody really thought EG was RUN by Anna....???
wow
The funny part was he was typing like he was educating us on how EG is run.
Funny part is you failed to read the person above me after I made the comment, I did not say she runs the entire team, but she is runs most of the marketing and promotions/funds alot of Major things that make EG so popular, you should of prob read the the guy I quoted before flaming nonsense. And the fact she was a celeb prior to esports and is such a popular person helps EG 10 folds in all-round marketing strats vs a teams that have no such support.
I don't know how you would know the business model of EG. I HIGHLY DOUBT that she is the employee responsible for meeting with corporations for promotional/financial details.
Far as the celeb thing goes, she was/is as famous as any regional network reporter. Not a big deal, I could find more qualified/attractive FACE for the corporate reps at my university's communication major. EG is far from being anything close to a "wallstreet powerhouse", but they are the most professional/proactive organization in the business.
Marketing for eSports should resemble MLS teams, because both of their target audience share similar sociological factors that draw them in.
On December 05 2012 09:40 ViktorSC wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:18 Melaine wrote:
On December 05 2012 09:14 Cattlecruiser wrote: [quote]
Organizations that have very poor to non-existent sponsor promotion should be out of business. Poor marketing and fiscal decisions are what is killing eSports. Most NA teams are run like a nerd fraternity than a professional environment. Rigid practice schedules, consistent participation in tournaments, and product promotion are needed for survival in a developing market.
The current business model of eSports is lacking.
EG and Liquid hold their own online leagues, visually promote their sponsors (logos on team shirts), vocally thank their sponsors every chance they get, and actively try to create attention (ceremonies, community interaction, and social media).
To be fare EG was always rich, Ann who runs it is a Celeb before Esports and had powerful finical resources and had good connections marketing wise, vs other teams that started from nothing. EG is like a Wallstreet run powerhouse that had rich people supporting it from the start, Not every team is blessed and can grab a ex supermodel to run the team. Teams need to develop a tangible products for sponsors.
This is true. The fact is these teams are branded team. If theyre players are not good at least they are very popular. That is what keeps them running, remember that any foreign team is in danger of falling to a better korean team.
I dont agree with the business model comment. I believe the problem is players seeking the best team instead of playing their game. What attracts sponsors? Wins, wins, and more wins. How can you always win if you are always taking chances at the best tournament. The money always follows the talent and talent is honed at home. This is actually what is wrong with eSports. You cant run a team like a business because it is not one. But the business you create with it keeps the team running. I was gonna say more but I really need to think about what I want to say... Ill be back.
How are teams not a business? All real sport teams are run like a business. If this was 5 years ago when eSports was just a few nerds living in their parent's basement it would be a different story, but the scene has evolved to a semi-legitimacy. To get the best results, sponsorship, and more fans players must adapt to the market.
"All real sport teams are run like a business." First of all, all real sports teams, the best ones, started out as real teams. The reason they are so popular is through years of playing in a town or city. They have to build trust, no? So, its not really a business. They compete, they deal with each other, not customers. They create business by selling shirts, tickets, whatnot like a "real sports team".
Real professional sports teams are businesses, regardless of how they started off. There really is no exception.
IF and when they can get a fan base. If Quantic had the fan base they prob couldve saved the team. We all watched Moneyball. We know how it works. The point is Quantic failed because it was run like a business and not a team. Real teams, Chelsea FC, the Patriots, Dream Team, all run like teams and not businesses. The concept of a team is always in the heart of an organization.
But the business they create allows them to make smart decisions. (Will I get banned for editing my comments many times?)
You watched Moneyball? OMG you must have a great understanding of finance and business...
In what way was Quantic run like a business? They did not put out consistent streams, popular events, or any sponsor promotion.
The Patriots are the most businesslike team in the NFL. Their players understand they are only good as their last season. The only real constant in their team since the Belichek era is Tom Brady and Vince Wilfork. It is because of the pressure and the lack of job security that keeps their players so prepared and motivated. The Pats front office is the best at quantifying a player's worth, this is the reason behind their success during the era of free agency.
You are obviously a finance and economics student. And I obviously dont care about that but you prob didnt even notice because all you care about is finance. Yes I watched Moneyball, no they did not mail me my economics degree from harvard with my netflix rental.
Couldnt even read your comment because I think you answered your own question but was too lazy to give a damn.
The quarterback is the most important part of the team and will never give him up. Period. I doubt they could afford any other group of players anyways.
I state about the financial state of starcraft 2 because it is THE most important factor in the future growth of the sport. Increase in the legitimacy of eSports is the ONLY thing I care about because with legitimacy success will fallow.
You stated that Quantic failed because of their businesslike attitude towards management. I simply listed the ways the didn't and ask you what they did do?
Patriots can "afford" to get higher paid players. They have structure their program so that they constantly cycle out cheap mid round players for high draft picks. Instead of overvaluing players because of a former peaks or players with character issues they maintain the attitude of accountability and professionalism that is completely unlike a "family" team of Tony Dungy or Jeff Fisher.
eSports can become a legitimate mainstream entertainment and games like Dota2 and LoL have made significant strides towards that direction. Starcraft 2, however has not adapted well to the new situation. Some of the entropy can be blamed on the stressful nature of RTS, but the lack of structure and organization has a large part to do with the failure to grow. If more teams take a professional attitude towards creating products that corporations want to purchase, so many wouldn't be going bankrupt. Teams should coach their players on how to talk to the media: presentation, diction, posture, and being politically correct.
Teams could: Add names of sponsors to their team title Flood their team shirts with logos: NASCAR style Have promotional deals for sponsor's products on website, stream content, ect Clearly and actively seek out the limelight to drop sponsors' names Run sponsor specific ads on their streams Put out exclusive PPV interactive events: starcraft 2 "class", lan/barcraft appearances, FFA goofing off Fan incorporation: sell touring packages of the house, buy an engraved rock on the team house/"friend" wall
I've seen high school football boosters do a better job at providing a marketable product to businesses. While the industry doesn't have an establish structure, the people involved in the management of these teams must start to establish themselves as a tangible product to their market instead of being merely housing and transportation for players.
Patriots are rich, youre right, but they got bills.
EG Idra. People love him. Because he is himself. I know what you are saying about diction classes. But to give diction classes to Idra... That would just break my heart.
Those are very basic things to do that would for sure keep sponsors happy. but i dont like when players recite sponsors. thats why they have a logo on their streams, most teams do. what you are saying is correct, that is in fact the way to market with a team. but if people like me, esport fan, wants to see some plastic with a bunch of logos then ill just watch some nascar. the sponsors are there, people are just not looking hard enough. every team should be sponsored by a computer company, snack or beverage and an apparel company. that is the answer i was looking for. something to create synergy within the cashflow. the second thing is proper branding. quantic had an amazing name and logo but thats it. they never took the brand to a higher level. its prob easy for you to say all these things about playing with fans and such, because you might be a fan boy. but some players just cant do that. it ruins their game. which brings me to another point. THE most important thing a player must have is talent, they have to win games. really what they should be doing is finding cheap, sustainable ways of elevating their players game. normally i would charge you a dollar for this intel but maybe they should start vacationing koreans in the states. and play them intensively. all this stuff about going to korea is way to complicated. it works but not as well as you think. remember that nasl last year that was awesome. they were onto something except they messed it up and now people like other tournaments better and they abandoned the thing altogether. esports is on the upswing again and right now its up to all the tournaments to capitalize, in fact. mlg is a great tournament but they too had some big blunders. how ever will we get on espn?
quantic cared about the money more than their players. there are plenty of ways to make money in the states, in fact the market is completely open you could say. but they were all over seas, in korea, or somewhere else. when you care about the money more than the sport, even if its out of worry, you become a business and not a team. and who wants to support a team that is actually a business? no one because they are not a team.
On December 05 2012 12:39 black_ICE wrote: This is unfortunate, but I think it was necessary for the overall well being of SC2. There needs to be a culling of these mediocre pros watering down the scene. It's understandable to have the young guys, like Illusion, on the team who are developing, but they shouldn't be the backbone of the team. The team overall is comprised of "also ran's." I wouldn't have predicted any of these players to win a major tournament, much less beat a current GSL player in a BoX. Being selected to be on a pro team should be an extraordinary achievement for a player. They should be freaks of nature as far as gaming goes with skill levels that leave you in awe as a spectator (e.g. SKTRain's 4 pronged DT attack vs Idra). For me, too many people are getting a chance that shouldn't.
That leads into the lack of sponsorship killing the team. I, like some who posted previously, had to Liquidpedia their roster. I only knew Illusion because of his run in one tournament a while ago, Flo because she's a female and Sase because he's friends with Naniwa. My lack of awareness is directly linked to the lack of tournament results. Other than the EG team and Destiny, which are anomalies, the players I know are those that win. Winning seems to be leaps and bounds the best way to get your name and your sponsor's name out there, besides a Hot_Bid interview that is. When you field a team of players that don't really have any tournament success, the chances are few and far between to advertise yourself. But SC2 and eSports are still pretty new to most, hopefully this is just growing pains and in the future things will stabilize so this kind of thing won't happen again.
I don't even know where to start breaking apart why this is wrong....I mean there's the terrifying news of sponsors pulling out of a team which, considering that's how basically every team survives is a terrifying concept. Or the loss or a very big team, regardless of their overall skill level or their higher skilled players, there was still a lot of players with quantic in their name, and because of this, I would be surprised if they could all manage to find teams again, because of the sudden influx of a disbanded team.
Honestly, that's ok for me. Not everyone who's moderately good at the game should be pro.
Finally, with the sponsors thing, true, quantic weren't at EG level with marketing their sponsors, but look at PsY and MaximusBlack. Neither of them at this stage are top tier pro players, in the sense of winning MLG, etc etc. But they aren't on the team for that reason. They are there to help promote sponsors, etc, because even if you aren't a top tier player, being a personality is it's own form of sponsor promotion, and I would argue more effective. A simple example of this would be incontrol. Regarless of results, everyone knows who he is, what team he's on, and their sponsors, and the amount of exposure the sponsors get because of that.
Incontrol and Destiny are the exceptions to the rule. For two years now, no one has been able to replicate the success that those two have gotten by being progamers with personality. Even Dragon was teamless for a while after Slayers despite being hilarious on stream and teamless again now. Until you mentioned it, I didn't know that's what MaximusBlack's role was on the team. I saw him being interviewed during a break at the last MLG and I had no idea who he even was. I don't think that's a reliable option to sustain a gaming career and attracting sponsors. Progamers should be about playing the game, fun personalities are a bonus. Pro athletes aren't picked because of their popularity to the masses, they are picked because of their skill at their given sports and their ability to win. Everybody loves a winner. When their ability diminishes, the ones with personalities retire and become commentators and analysts. The only "athletes" with personality are wrestlers, but I don't want SC2 to become a sideshow like that. Back in BW firebathero was an exception to the rule also, but he became popular because his wacky ceremonies came after he beat some heavy hitters at the time.
I'll take a leap and say a decent amount of the community have at least heard of MB, and he wasn't brought onto the team to be there as an athlete. You hadn't heard of him but I had. I hadn't heard of firebathero but you had, not everyone knows everyone in the scene. True, while there he has been improving and all that good stuff, but he was there as a personality. Yes, Destiny and Incontrol are exceptions to the rule, but they both were more player oriented rather than personality oriented. Everybody does love a winner, but saying that personalities aren't important is something that I would disagree with.
Here's a scenario, let's say that liquid picked up Husky as a personality (this is all hypothetical and first example that came to my mind), so he's not really going to be thrown into a roster as a player alongside people like hero or sea, who are massive powerhouses. I think that if something like this happened, liquid would probably have more people noticing them and cheering for them, because really Husky is such a big name in the community as a whole. It's a bad example but looking past that, I think you can see my point that personalities in teams I think do have a role to play. And I agree, players are picked for their skill, but I'm not seeing them as players so much. Yes MB has been playing and trying to improve, but the appeal he has over a lot of stronger players is the entertainment value.
And the other point about less players themselves, I still don't really see how having less players can be a good thing?
On December 05 2012 07:10 Epoch wrote: the "pro" gamer scene is waaaaaay over-saturated. that's why things like this happen. there's no money and sponsors for all these wannabe teams and pro-gamers. it's a lot tougher to be a pro then just being a ladder hero. you have to win events and actually draw a return for you investors. you have to have truly competitive players that have enough visibility to gain and promote sponsors.
i expect a similar fate for some other teams. i didn't necessarily think quantic would be one of them but it's no suprise at all to me.
gl to all the ex-quantic members
The problem isn’t over saturation. Try to name any of Quantics sponsors. That leads you to the right answer.
But.. but.. my Quantic! I had so much hope for them becoming a real flagship team for N.A. gaming, and now they're gone. I'm sure the players will have no trouble finding new homes given their talent and dedication, but for a whole organization to go under at the drop of a hat.. what awful news for e-sports generally. Well, here's to hoping for a Quantic revival some day.
EPT
