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On December 05 2012 04:18 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 04:12 willyallthewei wrote:On December 05 2012 04:09 Resistentialism wrote:
Seeker missile in a 1/1/1 is a huge waste of gas and techlab starport time. Seeker is scary in MASS raven usage. I hope you know what you're talking about, cause i don't wanna deal with that $@#$!. I'm scared of the following situation: 4 cloaked banshees + cloak upgrade = 800 gas = 4 ravens. So, what if terran player just made 4 ravens, seeker missile in the probe line as harass, then for the push spammed turrets and pdds? NOTE: seeker missile is FASTER than probe. Some people will get a Raven with their 111 just in case the Protoss goes for Dark Templar... but it's not that common. They'll usually want the gas to get Cloak for their Banshees, and so that they can have more Banshees for harassing/their push.
Depending on how long the push is delayed, you're likely to see a raven come along to help marines snipe obs, and then the raven can also immediately contribute a seeker missile onto the immortals or the sentries if it gets the opportunity. Which is great for the terran. So if there aren't a lot of stalkers or too many stalkers and it's not worth it to use PDD, suddenly you can use seeker, that's awesome.
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On December 05 2012 04:16 rtem wrote:
I seem to recall QXC mentioning that one of the major issues with tvz ravens is the fact that it requires so long to transition into them with all the upgrades. I hope we'll be seeing much more ravens in the matchup now.
Overall these feel kinda good changes although I still feel fungal is kind of a lame spell. I guess we'll just have to wait and see where it goes from here.
The problem with ravens is more that they have so little energy and it takes ages to build up, and 1 or 2 ravens isn't gonna make the difference lategame, you need atleast 5.
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On December 05 2012 04:15 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 04:12 willyallthewei wrote:On December 05 2012 04:09 Resistentialism wrote:
Seeker missile in a 1/1/1 is a huge waste of gas and techlab starport time. Seeker is scary in MASS raven usage. I hope you know what you're talking about, cause i don't wanna deal with that $@#$!. I'm scared of the following situation: 4 cloaked banshees + cloak upgrade = 800 gas = 4 ravens. 400 + 200 = 800?
sorry meant, 4 banshees + cloak + 1 raven like the usual raven banshee marine push.
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On December 05 2012 04:12 willyallthewei wrote:
So, what if terran player just made 4 ravens, seeker missile in the probe line as harass, then for the push spammed turrets and pdds?
The terran would get a lot of "not enough energy" error messages.
Or the push would arrive really late.
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On December 05 2012 04:09 Durp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 04:07 willyallthewei wrote:
Taking off the upgrade is going to make it really fun to deal w/ a resurgence of raven based 1-1-1's as soon as terrans get smart. This just occurred to me as well. Ouch. Still think it was a good change though.
Hmm, I think in a 1.1.1 the PDD (even the turrets) would be far more valuable than a missile. You only get one (don't know of any 1.1.1 all-in's that involve more than one raven) and the Seeker missile doesn't really damage protoss units in a devastating way, compared to the incredible advantage/map-control a PDD offers.
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Good changes. Maybe they won't fix everything but at least chain fungaling will be riskier now. I like that Blizzard didn't listen to poeple who wanted to completely destroy infestor. The unit might be boring but without it Zerg would be very underpowered. I think that the game is heading in the right direction.
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I hope this will work. Even tho I think they should stop adjusting numbers and make real gameplay changes, like fungal is a projectile or a slow.
8 range in TvZ won't change much I feel, but who knows perhaps it'll work well.
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Glad to see the Raven buff. The infestor nerf is will just be a non-factor. The problem with fungal growth is not the range, but rather the root effect.
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At first I thought this said seeker missile was getting removed from the game lol...
Changes looking really good though, if not a little bit late.
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I have a small question regarding the seeker missile as I've pretty much never faced one. Do you need to run the unit it's tareting away until it dies / the missile disappears basically? Or is there any other way to deal with it?
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THEY FINALLY BUFFED TERRAN LOL
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On December 05 2012 04:16 rtem wrote:
I seem to recall QXC mentioning that one of the major issues with tvz ravens is the fact that it requires so long to transition into them with all the upgrades. I hope we'll be seeing much more ravens in the matchup now.
Overall these feel kinda good changes although I still feel fungal is kind of a lame spell. I guess we'll just have to wait and see where it goes from here.
I honestly don't see why the Raven couldn't just take 45 seconds to build instead of a minute. High templars cool down Warp Gates for 55 seconds, and that can be chronoboosted. Plus it's a Warp Gate.. 150 mins no gas building. Infestors take 50 seconds and they can build all at once. Ravens take 60 seconds out of a Tech Labbed Starport, AND they're extremely underused. AND they take twice as long to get energy for their spell.
I mean, if Terrans could just have a few Ravens, without shutting down all of their air support and gas, I'm certain that they would. Just a thought.
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On December 05 2012 04:05 SNSDBWooger wrote:
P.L.A.C.E.B.O.
Pretty much this, people will be more willing to explore the race a bit more.
the same with queens basically.
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Will help a bit but I don't think zerg will make any less infestors.
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I am kind of glad that Blizzard did not just knee-jerk nerf infestors to oblivion like they did to ghosts.
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I have a better idea, how about they just make the seeker missile range 9?
Can anyone here think of why that would be a BAD idea? I'm a protoss player and i have no worries splitting all my forces vs. a 2.9 speed clump of banelings flying through the air, is essentially what it is.
Think about this, Fungal = insta cast = ensare = AOE damage, ur freaking DEAD = NO MICRO.
Storm = Insta cast = AOE damage = you can mitigate damage by running the hell away.
Seeker missile = SLOW AS HELL = AOE damage = SICK micro means the other guy does NOTHING.
Conclusion: Please just make seeker missile range 9.
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On December 05 2012 04:25 Celadan wrote:Pretty much this, people will be more willing to explore the race a bit more. the same with queens basically.
well look how the queen "placebo" turned out. Speculation is always great, but anyone who thinks they know how this is gonna change things, doesn't know shit at all.
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This means that Raven has HSM to start with?  Since the Patch Notes only says the upgrade is removed
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On December 05 2012 04:25 Celadan wrote:Pretty much this, people will be more willing to explore the race a bit more. the same with queens basically.
Lol completely wrong.
Queens could work becasue helions couldn't kite them.
Also just a few percentages changes actually do make a huge difference. THis has nothing to do with placebo.
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On December 05 2012 04:21 Hiea wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 04:16 rtem wrote:
I seem to recall QXC mentioning that one of the major issues with tvz ravens is the fact that it requires so long to transition into them with all the upgrades. I hope we'll be seeing much more ravens in the matchup now.
Overall these feel kinda good changes although I still feel fungal is kind of a lame spell. I guess we'll just have to wait and see where it goes from here. The problem with ravens is more that they have so little energy and it takes ages to build up, and 1 or 2 ravens isn't gonna make the difference lategame, you need atleast 5.
Thats exactly the problem on ravens. It's not like the HSM upgrade was inaccessible, the energy buildup time plus the energy cost of HSM made ravens pretty inefficient. You have to plan away ahead, when you are investing in ravens. You need to survive for 3-4 minutes before ravens become effective.
I feel it would have been better to simply increase the starting energy of ravens or reduce the cost of HSM rather removing HSM upgrade.
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EPT
