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On November 23 2012 14:29 Zdrastochye wrote:
If they're making prisms unfungalable they might as well do the same to medivacs. I mean, they serve the same purpose for their respective armies. I think people are being a bit irrational about how much this will harm zergs. As a zerg player it's impossible to ignore the strength of zerg as race, and forcing the pros to alter their play (which yes, will result in them losing a bit more until they get a feel for the changes) I'm sure zerg winrate will go back to about equal to the other races.
tl:dr People are overreacting to a change that will more than likely help all matchups. Hell, if it somehow makes zergs go to <10% winrates then zerg will get buffed again and then you can be happy again.
P.S. I've been a zerg player since before you guys were born.
Warp prism and medivac are very dissimilar... As for the change itself, I think it's an interesting change, in that Blizzard usually favors very gradual changes, and this actually introduces quite a few gameplay changes, PvZ in particular. The match-up always seems like it is balanced on a knife's edge. You have colossus-void ray stomping everything zerg, then infestor-broodlord stomping everything protoss, then roach max out, immortal sentry, roach-ling, 6gate, etc. This match up really needs some design tweaking so that not everything ends up in one-sided obliteration.
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On November 23 2012 12:35 aksfjh wrote:
According to some of you, fungal is the ONLY way to kill a warp prism...
Yeah ... Spore Crawler dont actually exist and Infested Terrans and Queens dont shoot air either and you certainly dont have the outsides of your bases guarded by Overlords.
By choosing "psionic" as the discerning factor Blizzard is basically saying "lets just forget about Terrans altogether and focus on ZvP only".
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On November 23 2012 08:31 Survivor61316 wrote:
Wow, just looked at the top five korean players on the TLPD..so weird that 4/5 of them are zerg..and 3/5 foreigners are also zerg..its almost like their an op race or something, hmm??
sounds like indisputable evidence to me
o_o
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On November 23 2012 15:05 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 12:35 aksfjh wrote:
According to some of you, fungal is the ONLY way to kill a warp prism... Yeah ... Spore Crawler dont actually exist and Infested Terrans and Queens dont shoot air either and you certainly dont have the outsides of your bases guarded by Overlords. By choosing "psionic" as the discerning factor Blizzard is basically saying "lets just forget about Terrans altogether and focus on ZvP only".
A speed-prism can fly over the top of three spore-crawlers and survive. How long does it take for infested terrans to deploy? How will they ever catch a warp-prism unless the protoss simply ignore units shooting at it? Same goes for a queen. Besides, we're talking lategame with 5+ bases here..
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On November 23 2012 15:28 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 15:05 Rabiator wrote:On November 23 2012 12:35 aksfjh wrote:
According to some of you, fungal is the ONLY way to kill a warp prism... Yeah ... Spore Crawler dont actually exist and Infested Terrans and Queens dont shoot air either and you certainly dont have the outsides of your bases guarded by Overlords. By choosing "psionic" as the discerning factor Blizzard is basically saying "lets just forget about Terrans altogether and focus on ZvP only". A speed-prism can fly over the top of three spore-crawlers and survive. How long does it take for infested terrans to deploy? How will they ever catch a warp-prism unless the protoss simply ignore units shooting at it? Same goes for a queen. Besides, we're talking lategame with 5+ bases here..
Yes, because zerg never builds tons of crawlers everywhere in lategame.............
And seriously, if a speedprism flies over three spores and survives, it's going to be warping in pretty far away, and the units it warps in will still have to face spines....
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I like both changes. Not sure if they go far enough, more tweaks may be needed. But on the surface, these are both solid tweaks.
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On November 23 2012 15:36 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 15:28 m0ck wrote:On November 23 2012 15:05 Rabiator wrote:On November 23 2012 12:35 aksfjh wrote:
According to some of you, fungal is the ONLY way to kill a warp prism... Yeah ... Spore Crawler dont actually exist and Infested Terrans and Queens dont shoot air either and you certainly dont have the outsides of your bases guarded by Overlords. By choosing "psionic" as the discerning factor Blizzard is basically saying "lets just forget about Terrans altogether and focus on ZvP only". A speed-prism can fly over the top of three spore-crawlers and survive. How long does it take for infested terrans to deploy? How will they ever catch a warp-prism unless the protoss simply ignore units shooting at it? Same goes for a queen. Besides, we're talking lategame with 5+ bases here.. Yes, because zerg never builds tons of crawlers everywhere in lategame............. And seriously, if a speedprism flies over three spores and survives, it's going to be warping in pretty far away, and the units it warps in will still have to face spines....
How many spores and crawlers would you recommend? 2*10 per base?
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And seriously, if a speedprism flies over three spores and survives, it's going to be warping in pretty far away, and the units it warps in will still have to face spines....
Because Spines do horrid damage to a warpin round of Chargelots. Even if you plant 10 Spines at every Base, the Hatch WILL fall if targeted.
Terran would have exactly the same problem. But they dont have. Not because they "learned" to catch the drop but because they just lift the building and wait for Marines/Marauders to clear up while R9 Vikings with huge frontload damage 2shot the Prism while they are hardly in sight range.
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On November 23 2012 15:50 Charon1979 wrote:Show nested quote +And seriously, if a speedprism flies over three spores and survives, it's going to be warping in pretty far away, and the units it warps in will still have to face spines.... Because Spines do horrid damage to a warpin round of Chargelots. Even if you plant 10 Spines at every Base, the Hatch WILL fall if targeted. Terran would have exactly the same problem. But they dont have. Not because they "learned" to catch the drop but because they just lift the building and wait for Marines/Marauders to clear up while R9 Vikings with huge frontload damage 2shot the Prism while they are hardly in sight range.
Then maybe some simcity action is in order. Put evolution chambers next to your main hatch to reduce surface area. Zergs also have the ability to have overlords spread around their bases to give warning ahead of time.
Hey, how about Zergs follow the advice that has been so often given to Terrans lately, learn to adapt.
/edit
If Zergs have to dedicate some supply in defenses, maybe their deathballs won't just wipe out Protoss.
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lel.
one of the only tools that can punish a protoss making sentries and bunching them all up whilst making the rest of zerg army worthless.. and they take it away?
gg protoss, just a move those sentries!
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On November 23 2012 15:37 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I like both changes. Not sure if they go far enough, more tweaks may be needed. But on the surface, these are both solid tweaks.
protoss detected
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On November 23 2012 16:34 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 15:50 Charon1979 wrote:And seriously, if a speedprism flies over three spores and survives, it's going to be warping in pretty far away, and the units it warps in will still have to face spines.... Because Spines do horrid damage to a warpin round of Chargelots. Even if you plant 10 Spines at every Base, the Hatch WILL fall if targeted. Terran would have exactly the same problem. But they dont have. Not because they "learned" to catch the drop but because they just lift the building and wait for Marines/Marauders to clear up while R9 Vikings with huge frontload damage 2shot the Prism while they are hardly in sight range. Then maybe some simcity action is in order. Put evolution chambers next to your main hatch to reduce surface area. Zergs also have the ability to have overlords spread around their bases to give warning ahead of time. Hey, how about Zergs follow the advice that has been so often given to Terrans lately, learn to adapt.
So like, build ten evo chambers around each hatchery? Except the ones that currently have minerals and gas next to them, since blocking them off would also prevent mining. Yes it only takes a couple of evo chambers to reduce surface area by a decent amount, but zealots don't need very much surface area to do tons of damage. You would need to completely surround it to significantly reduce their DPS.
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Oh so now it turned into a QQ thread.
- We can't stop DT's !! (overseers)
- We can't stop air harass (muta play).
Aside that. The balance map is not about being balanced, but trying out stuff. That's why it's a test balance map. Whining withouth even testing it is just nuts and bad feedback will come from that.
What else ?
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- We can't stop DT's !! (overseers)
Overseer do not stop DTs.
- We can't stop air harass (muta play).
Wasting over 500 Gas and 10 Supply to stop a single 200 Mineral unit is not acceptable.
What else ?
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On November 23 2012 16:59 Godwrath wrote:
Oh so now it turned into a QQ thread.
- We can't stop DT's !! (overseers)
- We can't stop air harass (muta play).
Aside that. The balance map is not about being balanced, but trying out stuff. That's why it's a test balance map. Whining withouth even testing it is just nuts and bad feedback will come from that.
What else ?
Yeah, I never said "we can't stop". I just said that I am not sure if it is OK that Infestors cannot be used to stop (and kill) prisms nor uncloak (and kill) DTs anymore. And I even did give replays of me doing this thing as Protoss over and over again at a level, at which I usually don't dominate PvZ.
And about your "can't stop air harass" --> "mutalisk play". Next time you have a problem in TvZ when playing Mech, would you bother to take the adivse to "play bio" or vis-versa? Would be quite funny if they removed the bonus vs light on Thors, because you can "just build marines vs mutalisks, harharhar".
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On November 23 2012 16:52 Twilight Sparkle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 16:34 plogamer wrote:On November 23 2012 15:50 Charon1979 wrote:And seriously, if a speedprism flies over three spores and survives, it's going to be warping in pretty far away, and the units it warps in will still have to face spines.... Because Spines do horrid damage to a warpin round of Chargelots. Even if you plant 10 Spines at every Base, the Hatch WILL fall if targeted. Terran would have exactly the same problem. But they dont have. Not because they "learned" to catch the drop but because they just lift the building and wait for Marines/Marauders to clear up while R9 Vikings with huge frontload damage 2shot the Prism while they are hardly in sight range. Then maybe some simcity action is in order. Put evolution chambers next to your main hatch to reduce surface area. Zergs also have the ability to have overlords spread around their bases to give warning ahead of time. Hey, how about Zergs follow the advice that has been so often given to Terrans lately, learn to adapt. So like, build ten evo chambers around each hatchery? Except the ones that currently have minerals and gas next to them, since blocking them off would also prevent mining. Yes it only takes a couple of evo chambers to reduce surface area by a decent amount, but zealots don't need very much surface area to do tons of damage. You would need to completely surround it to significantly reduce their DPS.
Are you seriously being daft here? Two evos + spines, a couple spores, queen positioned would cover enough space and buy enough time.
Since you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension, I will reiterate: ... follow the advice that has been so often given to Terrans lately, learn to adapt.
/edit
On November 23 2012 17:15 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 16:59 Godwrath wrote:
Oh so now it turned into a QQ thread.
- We can't stop DT's !! (overseers)
- We can't stop air harass (muta play).
Aside that. The balance map is not about being balanced, but trying out stuff. That's why it's a test balance map. Whining withouth even testing it is just nuts and bad feedback will come from that.
What else ? Yeah, I never said "we can't stop". I just said that I am not sure if it is OK that Infestors cannot be used to stop (and kill) prisms nor uncloak (and kill) DTs anymore. And I even did give replays of me doing this thing as Protoss over and over again at a level, at which I usually don't dominate PvZ. And about your "can't stop air harass" --> "mutalisk play". Next time you have a problem in TvZ when playing Mech, would you bother to take the adivse to "play bio" or vis-versa? Would be quite funny if they removed the bonus vs light on Thors, because you can "just build marines vs mutalisks, harharhar".
Zergs tech to Spire lategame regardless in PvZ. Dedicating supply in mutas to defend drops might help against deathball that everyone oh-so-hates.
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On November 23 2012 17:14 Charon1979 wrote:Overseer do not stop DTs. Wasting over 500 Gas and 10 Supply to stop a single 200 Mineral unit is not acceptable.
:...........
Are you really this stupid ?
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It really tickles me that we have protoss players complaining about deathballs.
This coming from the race that 4gated or just made collosus for almost 2 years
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On November 23 2012 17:15 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 16:59 Godwrath wrote:
Oh so now it turned into a QQ thread.
- We can't stop DT's !! (overseers)
- We can't stop air harass (muta play).
Aside that. The balance map is not about being balanced, but trying out stuff. That's why it's a test balance map. Whining withouth even testing it is just nuts and bad feedback will come from that.
What else ? Yeah, I never said "we can't stop". I just said that I am not sure if it is OK that Infestors cannot be used to stop (and kill) prisms nor uncloak (and kill) DTs anymore. And I even did give replays of me doing this thing as Protoss over and over again at a level, at which I usually don't dominate PvZ. And about your "can't stop air harass" --> "mutalisk play". Next time you have a problem in TvZ when playing Mech, would you bother to take the adivse to "play bio" or vis-versa? Would be quite funny if they removed the bonus vs light on Thors, because you can "just build marines vs mutalisks, harharhar".
Huh. No, it's more like ghost getting snipe nerfed so they can't deal with everything being the superior choice for any task. Reading this thread is painful, most people here want to be able to completly shutdown any harass with just going one unit. That shouldn't be the answer for everything.
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On November 23 2012 17:22 DwarfTherapist wrote:
It really tickles me that we have protoss players complaining about deathballs.
This coming from the race that 4gated or just made collosus for almost 2 years
I'm Terran lol. Anyway, doesn't matter who it comes from. Deathballs are bad bad bad.
If Hitler said the sky looks blue, I would agree, then kick his ass. But still, you get the point I hope.
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EPT
