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Call to Action: Balance Testing (2012/11/20) - Page 43

Forum Index > SC2 General
1876 CommentsPost a Reply
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Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
November 21 2012 18:18 GMT
#841
On November 22 2012 03:15 Arco wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 03:02 HaXXspetten wrote:
On November 22 2012 03:00 Crawdad wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:58 Insomni7 wrote:
Does the sentry immortal all-in need a buff? Not happy at all with the first change.


Infestors were used against Sentry/Immortal rush?

Ling/Infestor is a solid counter, yes?

No, because it dies to a number of timing attacks that hit earlier than the Sentry/Immortal all in.

It's gambling that they're going to do one specific build against you.


Zealot, zealot, zealot, zealot, zealot... "Whoopsie, did someone try to skip roaches?"
SKYFISH_
Profile Joined April 2011
Bulgaria990 Posts
November 21 2012 18:18 GMT
#842
On November 22 2012 03:14 Assirra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 03:13 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
On November 22 2012 03:10 Assirra wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:53 TheDwf wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:51 Kahlgar wrote:
not sure what is going to prevent cloaked ghosts from wrecking zergs now, overseers are easily dealt with some timely pewpew and having spores with your army at all time doesn't seem that doable

What part of “it takes 9 Snipes to kill one Overseer” didn't you understand?

Wait, did they changed something so no other units can kill overseers?
You can easely snipe it with another group of units and then your cloaked ones have a free playground.


yeah easily, it's well known that going through broodlords/infestors is a walk in the park.

once again with the broodlords, i must have missed the patch where zerg starts with free 10 broodlords.

so how exactly does a terran snipe 5 overseers?
and how does this help terran at all?
ghosts will DPS down the broodlords after half of his army died to fungles when trying to snipe the overseers?
lol
In Soviet Terranistan you rush the Zerg
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 18:19:45
November 21 2012 18:18 GMT
#843
On November 22 2012 03:14 Assirra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 03:13 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
On November 22 2012 03:10 Assirra wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:53 TheDwf wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:51 Kahlgar wrote:
not sure what is going to prevent cloaked ghosts from wrecking zergs now, overseers are easily dealt with some timely pewpew and having spores with your army at all time doesn't seem that doable

What part of “it takes 9 Snipes to kill one Overseer” didn't you understand?

Wait, did they changed something so no other units can kill overseers?
You can easely snipe it with another group of units and then your cloaked ones have a free playground.


yeah easily, it's well known that going through broodlords/infestors is a walk in the park.

once again with the broodlords, i must have missed the patch where zerg starts with free 10 broodlords.


The problem is that its insanely hard to deal with a maxed broodlord infestor army.
Scarlett`
Profile Joined April 2011
Korea (South)2446 Posts
November 21 2012 18:19 GMT
#844
On November 22 2012 02:53 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 02:51 Kahlgar wrote:
not sure what is going to prevent cloaked ghosts from wrecking zergs now, overseers are easily dealt with some timely pewpew and having spores with your army at all time doesn't seem that doable

What part of “it takes 9 Snipes to kill one Overseer” didn't you understand?

The part where it doesn't take 9 snipes to kill one Overseer because they are psionic ?
Progamer一条咸鱼
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
November 21 2012 18:20 GMT
#845
On November 22 2012 03:19 Scarlett` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 02:53 TheDwf wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:51 Kahlgar wrote:
not sure what is going to prevent cloaked ghosts from wrecking zergs now, overseers are easily dealt with some timely pewpew and having spores with your army at all time doesn't seem that doable

What part of “it takes 9 Snipes to kill one Overseer” didn't you understand?

The part where it doesn't take 9 snipes to kill one Overseer because they are psionic ?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Overseer
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
November 21 2012 18:20 GMT
#846
On November 22 2012 03:19 Scarlett` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 02:53 TheDwf wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:51 Kahlgar wrote:
not sure what is going to prevent cloaked ghosts from wrecking zergs now, overseers are easily dealt with some timely pewpew and having spores with your army at all time doesn't seem that doable

What part of “it takes 9 Snipes to kill one Overseer” didn't you understand?

The part where it doesn't take 9 snipes to kill one Overseer because they are psionic ?


No, they are not!
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10167 Posts
November 21 2012 18:22 GMT
#847
On November 22 2012 03:19 Scarlett` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 02:53 TheDwf wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:51 Kahlgar wrote:
not sure what is going to prevent cloaked ghosts from wrecking zergs now, overseers are easily dealt with some timely pewpew and having spores with your army at all time doesn't seem that doable

What part of “it takes 9 Snipes to kill one Overseer” didn't you understand?

The part where it doesn't take 9 snipes to kill one Overseer because they are psionic ?


They are not.
Crawdad
Profile Joined September 2012
614 Posts
November 21 2012 18:25 GMT
#848
Sniper Round is a dumb spell, anyway...

I hope that the Ghost gets looked at in the near future.
sCCrooked
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1306 Posts
November 21 2012 18:25 GMT
#849
On November 22 2012 03:09 ChApFoU wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 02:46 TheDwf wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:44 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Hydras solve the problem the zerg above me was screaming about, they are a high-DPS glass cannon which arent so horribly effected by forcefield as roaches and lings.

Hydralisks would still get utterly crushed by Sentries/Stalkers/Colossi.


If you're still on T2 as zerg while protoss has 2+ collossi with range you messed up somewhere.

To deal with late midgame sentry-heavy timings with collo you can still go ultra/bane Symbol style.


Wrong.

If you follow high level play at all, its extremely common on the Korean server for high level Protosses to use an immortal/sentry expand for a quick third that transitions into a 3 collossi/warp prism/blink-stalker/sentry/immortal/zealot pre-hive deathpush with range on the collossi. It hits at 13:00 which is impossible using any build off a 3 base opening to achieve completed BL/Festor ball (The only T3) by any pro currently. The only person who's figured out a decent way to hold this and maintain control is HyuN and he's known as an absolute GOD of ZvP. Even HE has great difficulty vs this style.

I don't think you understand how the game works well enough to be speaking on such matters if you aren't even aware of all the pushes we can face in the current meta.
Enlightened in an age of anti-intellectualism and quotidian repetitiveness of asinine assumptive thinking. Best lycan guide evar --> "Fixing solo queue all pick one game at a time." ~KwarK-
GoodSirTets
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada200 Posts
November 21 2012 18:26 GMT
#850
can't fungal sentry... Immortal sentry even stronger?
High Diamond/ Low Masters :^)
willoc
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1530 Posts
November 21 2012 18:27 GMT
#851
On November 22 2012 03:19 Scarlett` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 02:53 TheDwf wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:51 Kahlgar wrote:
not sure what is going to prevent cloaked ghosts from wrecking zergs now, overseers are easily dealt with some timely pewpew and having spores with your army at all time doesn't seem that doable

What part of “it takes 9 Snipes to kill one Overseer” didn't you understand?

The part where it doesn't take 9 snipes to kill one Overseer because they are psionic ?

What a wonderful community!
Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid!
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
November 21 2012 18:27 GMT
#852
On November 22 2012 03:25 sCCrooked wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 03:09 ChApFoU wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:46 TheDwf wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:44 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Hydras solve the problem the zerg above me was screaming about, they are a high-DPS glass cannon which arent so horribly effected by forcefield as roaches and lings.

Hydralisks would still get utterly crushed by Sentries/Stalkers/Colossi.


If you're still on T2 as zerg while protoss has 2+ collossi with range you messed up somewhere.

To deal with late midgame sentry-heavy timings with collo you can still go ultra/bane Symbol style.


Wrong.

If you follow high level play at all, its extremely common on the Korean server for high level Protosses to use an immortal/sentry expand for a quick third that transitions into a 3 collossi/warp prism/blink-stalker/sentry/immortal/zealot pre-hive deathpush with range on the collossi. It hits at 13:00 which is impossible using any build off a 3 base opening to achieve completed BL/Festor ball (The only T3) by any pro currently. The only person who's figured out a decent way to hold this and maintain control is HyuN and he's known as an absolute GOD of ZvP. Even HE has great difficulty vs this style.

I don't think you understand how the game works well enough to be speaking on such matters if you aren't even aware of all the pushes we can face in the current meta.

The best 3base all-inner is Creator. He invented the style. Hyun crushed him. I don't see where the evidence for a problem is. Just because Hyun is good doesn't mean we should discount his results. I wouldn't say that he's any better relative to Zerg players than Creator is relative to Protoss (second in WCS, owned TSL, won WCS Korea, only Protoss in Ro8) so if anything I'd say Hyun is evidence that 3base all-ins are defeatable at the highest level even when executed by the best players.
Coprolyth
Profile Joined July 2012
Belgium18 Posts
November 21 2012 18:29 GMT
#853
late sentry push look so strong now
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
November 21 2012 18:29 GMT
#854
On November 22 2012 03:27 Shiori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 03:25 sCCrooked wrote:
On November 22 2012 03:09 ChApFoU wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:46 TheDwf wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:44 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Hydras solve the problem the zerg above me was screaming about, they are a high-DPS glass cannon which arent so horribly effected by forcefield as roaches and lings.

Hydralisks would still get utterly crushed by Sentries/Stalkers/Colossi.


If you're still on T2 as zerg while protoss has 2+ collossi with range you messed up somewhere.

To deal with late midgame sentry-heavy timings with collo you can still go ultra/bane Symbol style.


Wrong.

If you follow high level play at all, its extremely common on the Korean server for high level Protosses to use an immortal/sentry expand for a quick third that transitions into a 3 collossi/warp prism/blink-stalker/sentry/immortal/zealot pre-hive deathpush with range on the collossi. It hits at 13:00 which is impossible using any build off a 3 base opening to achieve completed BL/Festor ball (The only T3) by any pro currently. The only person who's figured out a decent way to hold this and maintain control is HyuN and he's known as an absolute GOD of ZvP. Even HE has great difficulty vs this style.

I don't think you understand how the game works well enough to be speaking on such matters if you aren't even aware of all the pushes we can face in the current meta.

The best 3base all-inner is Creator. He invented the style. Hyun crushed him. I don't see where the evidence for a problem is. Just because Hyun is good doesn't mean we should discount his results. I wouldn't say that he's any better relative to Zerg players than Creator is relative to Protoss (second in WCS, owned TSL, won WCS Korea, only Protoss in Ro8) so if anything I'd say Hyun is evidence that 3base all-ins are defeatable at the highest level even when executed by the best players.

And if more evidence was needed, Vortix was able to fend off two 3-bases all-ins from Creator in their bo5 at the BWC, so...
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
November 21 2012 18:30 GMT
#855
Damnit, couldn't get a single PvZ in yet because everybody is protoss/terran and zergs just troll and 6pool all the time. FFS
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
November 21 2012 18:30 GMT
#856
On November 22 2012 03:29 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 03:27 Shiori wrote:
On November 22 2012 03:25 sCCrooked wrote:
On November 22 2012 03:09 ChApFoU wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:46 TheDwf wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:44 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Hydras solve the problem the zerg above me was screaming about, they are a high-DPS glass cannon which arent so horribly effected by forcefield as roaches and lings.

Hydralisks would still get utterly crushed by Sentries/Stalkers/Colossi.


If you're still on T2 as zerg while protoss has 2+ collossi with range you messed up somewhere.

To deal with late midgame sentry-heavy timings with collo you can still go ultra/bane Symbol style.


Wrong.

If you follow high level play at all, its extremely common on the Korean server for high level Protosses to use an immortal/sentry expand for a quick third that transitions into a 3 collossi/warp prism/blink-stalker/sentry/immortal/zealot pre-hive deathpush with range on the collossi. It hits at 13:00 which is impossible using any build off a 3 base opening to achieve completed BL/Festor ball (The only T3) by any pro currently. The only person who's figured out a decent way to hold this and maintain control is HyuN and he's known as an absolute GOD of ZvP. Even HE has great difficulty vs this style.

I don't think you understand how the game works well enough to be speaking on such matters if you aren't even aware of all the pushes we can face in the current meta.

The best 3base all-inner is Creator. He invented the style. Hyun crushed him. I don't see where the evidence for a problem is. Just because Hyun is good doesn't mean we should discount his results. I wouldn't say that he's any better relative to Zerg players than Creator is relative to Protoss (second in WCS, owned TSL, won WCS Korea, only Protoss in Ro8) so if anything I'd say Hyun is evidence that 3base all-ins are defeatable at the highest level even when executed by the best players.

And if more evidence was needed, Vortix was able to fend off two 3-bases all-ins from Creator in their bo5 at the BWC, so...

Yeah. We're literally talking about those the best 3base all-in player.
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
November 21 2012 18:32 GMT
#857
On November 22 2012 03:19 Scarlett` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 02:53 TheDwf wrote:
On November 22 2012 02:51 Kahlgar wrote:
not sure what is going to prevent cloaked ghosts from wrecking zergs now, overseers are easily dealt with some timely pewpew and having spores with your army at all time doesn't seem that doable

What part of “it takes 9 Snipes to kill one Overseer” didn't you understand?

The part where it doesn't take 9 snipes to kill one Overseer because they are psionic ?


Hilarious, even competitive zergs are confused by the psionic tag. Blizz needs to update the psionic units list.
Terran & Potato Salad.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
November 21 2012 18:32 GMT
#858
btw, it feels very weird that fungal can now uncloak some units, but others not:

Units that can be uncloaked (and gernerally hit) with fungal:
-) burrowed units exceptions: queen and Infestor
-) banshee
-) all units under a motherships cloak exceptions: sentry, archon, HT, Warp Prism, (DT)


Units that cannot be uncloaked (and gernerally hit) with fungal:
-) burrowed queen and Infestor
-) cloaked ghost
-) DT
-) when cloaked by a mothership: sentry, archon, HT, Warp Prism, (DT)

Especially the mothership part seems weird. You fungal into the cloaked units, some reveal, some don't.
hli
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada32 Posts
November 21 2012 18:33 GMT
#859
agree with avilo and others on the topic of hsm... hsm change does nothing for terran late game. theorycrafting about it is enough to see why. but instead, blizzard made the change basically as a "please use ravens so that we can actually see hsm fail so that we can buff them 3 month later". the issue is the low cast range of hsm, high cost of raven, difficulty to produce them effectively (starports with techlab 1 at a time, while infestors only need larva), and how easily they're sniped (no burrow, slow movement speed and acceleration). Not to mention HSM itself is such a slow projectile. while toss and zerg has vortex and fungal for massive anti air support, terran has no way to hold end game air units still to make HSM even remotely useful. Broodlord infestor will still crush any terran late game
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
November 21 2012 18:34 GMT
#860
On November 22 2012 03:32 Big J wrote:
btw, it feels very weird that fungal can now uncloak some units, but others not:

Units that can be uncloaked (and gernerally hit) with fungal:
-) burrowed units exceptions: queen and Infestor
-) banshee
-) all units under a motherships cloak exceptions: sentry, archon, HT, Warp Prism, (DT)


Units that cannot be uncloaked (and gernerally hit) with fungal:
-) burrowed queen and Infestor
-) cloaked ghost
-) DT
-) when cloaked by a mothership: sentry, archon, HT, Warp Prism, (DT)

Especially the mothership part seems weird. You fungal into the cloaked units, some reveal, some don't.

It feels weird that Fungal doesn't work on Ultras, but I don't see anyone having a sudden brain aneurysm when they see Ultralisks. People will get used to it. Zergs should have several Overseers anyway.
Prev 1 41 42 43 44 45 94 Next
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