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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:44 GeNeSiDe wrote: Hydras solve the problem the zerg above me was screaming about, they are a high-DPS glass cannon which arent so horribly effected by forcefield as roaches and lings. Hydralisks would still get utterly crushed by Sentries/Stalkers/Colossi. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:39 GeNeSiDe wrote: Such a joke, get hydras m8 if you can get infestors out at 150 a pop for the push why can't you get hydras? Build costinefficient hydras that do the same thing as roaches? Get cut into half and the ones on the one side of the FF get killed, while the others can't shoot! On November 22 2012 02:39 GeNeSiDe wrote:Detect cloaked units like the rest of the races have to Yeah, I'm just gonna scan all day long with my queens, right? On November 22 2012 02:39 GeNeSiDe wrote: , you have unlimited amounts of overseers and you complain? Yeah, unlimited as in "BC's are only limited by supply, that's why we see Terrans build 32BCs in the first second of a game." On November 22 2012 02:39 GeNeSiDe wrote: jsut make 10 per battle and spam spells so they have no mana, why should your primary battlecaster have free detect? Why should Terrans primary antiground combat unit (marines) shot air? | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:43 TheDwf wrote: Alas, not going to happen. Properly fixing Forcefields would mean no less than a complete overhaul of the Protoss race. Then option 1 it is. | ||
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Schmoooopy
United States448 Posts
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Black[CAT]
Malaysia2589 Posts
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YourGoodFriend
United States2197 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:41 TheDwf wrote: Can you please stop spreading ridiculous fallacies? 1. You're already forced to get Overseers against Ghosts. 2. This right here ^ Thank you so much. Zergs are just afraid that they might have to use different units. I can't wait to see if this goes live. People with great multitasking (HerO) will do really well. I am super stoked  | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:46 smidge wrote: So the big mistake people are making is that you have to spend the energy on Seekers. With the two ravens at 150 a piece, you can make 1 PDD, 4 Turrets -or- 1 PDD, 1 Turret, 1 Seeker -or- 3 Turrets, 1 Seeker... Nobody is saying it's stronger because you will use the seeker. They are saying it's stronger because you CAN use the seeker. No one is going to make 2 Ravens in a gas-starved timing attack just to be able to use a pathetic AoE spell which is much worse than simply having a Tank using its standard Sieged attack. Most 1-1-1 attacks don't even get a Raven nowadays, the trend won't be reversed tomorrow simply because Missile no longer requires an upgrade. | ||
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Kahlgar
411 Posts
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:44 GeNeSiDe wrote: Well for one right now they are almost a useless unit except for choice ZvZ moments, and seeing how iconic they are to SC lore I for one wish they had more appearance in the meta. Hydras solve the problem the zerg above me was screaming about, they are a high-DPS glass cannon which arent so horribly effected by forcefield as roaches and lings. It's like marines in TvP, yes it sucks if they get FF'ed but some of the FF is going to stop zealots from raping your army which is always a good thing. They also hit air(infestor counters this) and will create interesting dynamic matchups, no more 3 matchup infestor massing. I'm not really understanding what you are trying to say Just to clarify, the only time where Hydra are effective is when an air attack is incoming VERY soon (Hydra den build faster than spire and infest pit) Any other time, they do nothing, they do not stop any early or mid-game all-in, they are more than useless, they are a liability I would love to see them get some love | ||
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koivis
Finland2 Posts
The infestor is harder to change because zerg has so few options in mid game. To my mind hydra should be tier 1.5 with reduced dmg and cost (with speed buff) and roach should be tier 2.5 unit with increased dmg, armor and cost. That would solve so many problems. After that change fugal wouldn't need to immobilize anymore it could just be a slow and some dmg. At the moment queen is the only anti-air good portion of the game and queen can't attack or harass which makes games more passive and boring. Also one fun idea how to make terran able to deal with infestors would be to make reaper immune fungal and give it an active ability to become immortal or increase armor for few seconds and give it +dmg against psionic. Then terran could snipe infestors if he would have necessary micro. With this storm could also be buffed 'cos terran would now have active method to deal with it. To my mind storm isn't strong enough in pvz and pvp so the buff would be nice overall. and after this colossus could be nerffed 'cos storm become better and thhats good 'cos colosus is the most boring unit in whole sc2. Anyway my point is not necessary nerf or buff abilities but give active methods to deal with problems. At the moment there is a great lack of active methods to deal with the death balls. Passivity should be punished and active players should be awarded. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:51 Kahlgar wrote: not sure what is going to prevent cloaked ghosts from wrecking zergs now, overseers are easily dealt with some timely pewpew and having spores with your army at all time doesn't seem that doable What part of “it takes 9 Snipes to kill one Overseer” didn't you understand? | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
Zergs mainly play one way because it is by far the most effective way. That's not to say Blizzard should make hydras super awesome and kill everything, but they could reduce the power of infestors and make something which never gets used actually useful. Nerfing something to force people to use something else just changes the specifics of the problem, but doesn't change the game as a whole. Rather than taking away an option, expand the choices. | ||
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Swisslink
2958 Posts
Everyone knows: PvZ sucks, Zerg-players has infestors (-> No micro possible!), which leads to a terrible late game. Protoss have Sentries (-> No micro possible!), which leads to terribly strong timing pushs. Now, the way Blizzard tries to fix this is: Nerf the Infestor in a way that the Sentries get buffed? Seriously? They just make the already TERRIBLY strong 3 base timing pushs even stronger. I mean, I agree that a nerf is needed, but that's just the wrong way to fix PvZ. They need to nerf the infestor in a way where it does not affect the 3-base pushs of the Protoss AT ALL, because they are very strong (possibly too strong) even with the infestor in its current state. Everyone knows how hard it was for the Zerg to defend against the "ultimate Protoss Death Ball" before infestors were used. Of course infestors could still be used after the nerf and they WILL be used after the nerf, but Forcefields are going to be a huge issue imo. Zerg mid game's just horrible compared to the Protoss mid game without Infestors on the field. Every other unit just dies at this stage of the game. | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
The other thing I've seen virtually NOBODY realize or mention is that they're trying to modify fungal and the infestor, but don't buff our other things to give us other options. Without infestors JUST as they are, Zerg is not viable in any matchup but a mirror. We wouldn't be so dependent on infestors if all our other shit didn't suck so bad. Its the old Protoss arguement with their "weaker units" because of the existence of warpgate. Another terrible gimmick that's so imbalanced (and BW pros said it was...), the whole race has been balanced around it and thusly has serious issues that are only ok because of the existence of said gimmick. | ||
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EvanC
Canada130 Posts
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Kahlgar
411 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:53 TheDwf wrote: What part of “it takes 9 Snipes to kill one Overseer” didn't you understand? didn't know that and tbh seems quite ridiculous but makes it fine | ||
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
Rather sad. I lose the will to play this game as each day goes by (I play Random). | ||
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theinfamousone
United States103 Posts
The seeker missile... I'm a little scared about. I play mostly team games. There's a couple of things that can be scary. Seeker missiles in big 4v4 fights are going to be really powerful as you can splash on several armies at once. I hope it helps terran late game TvZ though, it's fun to see pro players use HSM. If it becomes too good, they'll probably nerf it again. | ||
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Insomni7
667 Posts
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Crawdad
614 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:58 Insomni7 wrote: Does the sentry immortal all-in need a buff? Not happy at all with the first change. Infestors were used against Sentry/Immortal rush? | ||
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