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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On November 22 2012 01:19 Vindicare605 wrote: That's why people want the Infestor nerfed. It's not just causing Zergs to win, it's causing them to win in a very boring and frustrating way. and it's causing them to win in a very unfair way. I predict that a ton of patchzergs will get into a difficult time if this patch goes trough. | ||
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NuclearStar
United Kingdom57 Posts
I am just concerned that my whole army is going to get FF'd to crap and not even be able to trade an army now because protoss units outrange zerg ones. There is no alternative to being able to kill DT's or ghosts now if fungal doesnt affect them, we will be forced to get overseers, and they will get sniped by ghosts and fedback by HT and die pretty much instantly, so we have no other mobile way to detect these units. Spore cralwers are not viable in this situation. Can it not be made so the damage to fungal doesnt affect these units but the immobilisation and detection does? | ||
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:23 a176 wrote: Feedback/storm range 9 emp range 10 fungal range 9 im confused why does blizzard seems to think fungal is 'effective' against templar+ghost ? maybe just increase range of feedback, or fungal projectile? this is not a buff for spellcasters. its a buff for everything else, archons, prisms, sentries, DT. which in itself is ridiculous as only ghost gets 'buffed' on terran. Just remove the "psionic" for prisms and sentries, sorted. Infestors stopping DT's are a joke. The reason fungal is effective vs temp and ghost is that all they need to do is get 1 fungal off on the ghosts and they become useless as the army will kill them. Atleast now zergs will need to bring an overseer(not hard) | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
1. The fungal change works out great Or 2. The fungal change makes Sentries OP and Blizz finally addresses Forcefields  | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:28 MuMeise wrote: So I played a few games now. In my opinion the changes are not hitting the problems but creating other problesm. This change creates now problems for Zerg but doesn't resolve the problems Protoss has in the lategame. Why is that? 1. Neural is still in place. One Neural to the mama shop and everything is wrecked. 2. You can still Fungal the entire Toss army without any problems. Sentries and HTs stay alive, but you still can't do really anything. In my opinion the problem was never the infestor alone but the combination with GGLords. And This Thread still stand and Stalkers get still traped all the same so blinking under infestors is still a death trap. Since HTs are so slow the complete idea of the stalker (being fast, harass, retreat, doing great damage when microed correctly with blink) is not working anymore since you need to carry along a high templar all the time... The only real counter there is against GGLLord, the carrier, is still useless. I just tried to play carrier, speed lot high templar against zerg. Yes it works pretty well at first, i could snipe a few infestors but since feedback as such a low range most of the time the high templar just dies to the broodlings. And the main problem imho still exists that it is extremely easy to fungal interceptors. All in all i think this change is more a change that will benefit Terran with the Ghost and snipe but the high templar as a "sniping unit" is simply to slow and feedback as not a good range to be viable against mass infestor. Also you need a LOT of high templars against mass infestor play, and then you are extremly low on Gas and you can't do anything against the GGLords. It would have been the much better change to make the fungal a projectile and also not affecting massive units. Why is that? I think the infestor as a sentry counter is good! That shouldn't change since pushes like Immortal All-In become even more powerfull, also with the thread of sentries to die of fungal you need to split them correclty etc. This change removes complexitly from the game, creates problem in the midgame for Zerg and doesn't solve the lategame problems for Toss. I can't comment on Terran though. This is not supposed to address the combat of Broodlord/Infestor armies in the lategame. It addresses the ability to backstab and harass more effectively against the composition. You didn't mention the Warp Prism, which now will be much stronger at pulling the zerg army back. And DTs are also much more useful now. It is true that if tosses continue to play the same way as before, then zergs can do the same and not see much difference. The point is that if toss uses these new advantages against the infestor, the zerg will be more apt to shift their composition away from mass infestor, making the game much more dynamic. Though I still think Blizzard bungled this test by not including a buff somewhere else for zerg. | ||
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:35 NuclearStar wrote: Sorry but I just dont understand how we are suppose to kill sentries now, they are too far behind all the FF to hit with roaches or lings, hydras are too late to come out and are pretty crap in ZvP anyway. I am just concerned that my whole army is going to get FF'd to crap and not even be able to trade an army now because protoss units outrange zerg ones. There is no alternative to being able to kill DT's or ghosts now if fungal doesnt affect them, we will be forced to get overseers, and they will get sniped by ghosts and fedback by HT and die pretty much instantly, so we have no other mobile way to detect these units. Spore cralwers are not viable in this situation. Can it not be made so the damage to fungal doesnt affect these units but the immobilisation and detection does? Such a joke, get hydras m8 if you can get infestors out at 150 a pop for the push why can't you get hydras? Detect cloaked units like the rest of the races have to, you have unlimited amounts of overseers and you complain? jsut make 10 per battle and spam spells so they have no mana, why should your primary battlecaster have free detect? Consider yourself lucky that blizz arent just giving fungal slow+projectile+remove energy upgrade, atleast your infestor still counter every unit in the game except psionic ones now. I think fungal should effect friendly units...would be much more balanced. When you blink under Broodlords atleast it would be a sick tactical move waying your stalkers DPS vs the broodlords rather than it being death every time. | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
Such a joke, get hydras m8 if you can get infestors out at 150 a pop for the push why can't you get hydras? Why would anyone want to go hydra ? What kind of problem do they solve ? | ||
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EpicShroom
Netherlands81 Posts
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Cosmos
Belgium1077 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:35 NuclearStar wrote: There is no alternative to being able to kill DT's or ghosts now if fungal doesnt affect them, we will be forced to get overseers, and they will get sniped by ghosts and fedback by HT and die pretty much instantly, so we have no other mobile way to detect these units. Spore cralwers are not viable in this situation. Can you please stop spreading ridiculous fallacies? 1. You're already forced to get Overseers against Ghosts. 2. On November 22 2012 01:59 TheDwf wrote: Overseers with the speed upgrade have a 2.75 movement speed, and they have 200 hit points. It takes 9 Snipes to kill an Overseer. Feedback can be thwarted if you use Changelings to deplete their mana pool, which you should anyway to scout your opponent's army. If Protoss manage to have detection against Cloaked Ghosts with a 60 hit points fragile thing, I guess keeping alive an Overseer cloud among an army of BLs/Corruptors/Infestors should not be that hard. | ||
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
The change sounds good for PvZ TvZ though. I really love the HSM change. | ||
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Prime Directive
United States186 Posts
I think an important point I don't see being discussed much is that the infestor / broodlord composition is going to be a lot tougher to get to now (and that's a good thing). Protoss can build an army composition that can approach infestors in the mid-game (i'm not talking about immortal sentry all-in). Right now it's very risky to engage an army with infestors and in most matchups both parties tend to opt to turtle to a deathball rather than fight. Hopefully this change leads to more frequent engagements. Also, looking at it from a Zerg perspective, I can't think of a composition the Protoss could throw together that I couldn't build a counter for (which tells me this won't leave Zerg screwed). Rather, it will just require a more diverse army composition. Isn't this what we have been asking for? As someone else mentioned, i'd like to see a small adjustment to the hydralisk, but this is a step in the right direction. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:37 SarcasmMonster wrote: Here is what I hope: 1. The fungal change works out great Or 2. The fungal change makes Sentries OP and Blizz finally addresses Forcefields Alas, not going to happen. Properly fixing Forcefields would mean no less than a complete overhaul of the Protoss race. | ||
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:41 Protosnake wrote: Why would anyone want to go hydra ? What kind of problem do they solve ? Well for one right now they are almost a useless unit except for choice ZvZ moments, and seeing how iconic they are to SC lore I for one wish they had more appearance in the meta. Hydras solve the problem the zerg above me was screaming about, they are a high-DPS glass cannon which arent so horribly effected by forcefield as roaches and lings. It's like marines in TvP, yes it sucks if they get FF'ed but some of the FF is going to stop zealots from raping your army which is always a good thing. They also hit air(infestor counters this) and will create interesting dynamic matchups, no more 3 matchup infestor massing. | ||
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ZanXala
Sweden26 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:27 HaXXspetten wrote: ...build spores and have a dozen lings hanging around the edge of your main? overlords spotting way in advance? terrans have managed with it forever without fungal, so can zerg, get real mutas in ZvZ would be really stupid if so Protoss is already murdering zergs in the korean scene with the exception of this current gsl (note that the previous ones, even since important zerg patches, protoss more or less dominates zerg), look at the wcs Korea, Asia and world for example. The speed warp prism which imo already is way too powerful will be even harder to ever kill if you can't fungal it. However, I'm most worried about the sentries. All the allins (or heavily commited attacks) where it's crucial for zerg to fungal sentries to prevent them from simply walking up ramps or through chokeswill be SO MUCH more powerful. I'm not saying infestor are balanced - they're way too good - but the problem is all the other zerg units suck so if you nerf infestor (by this much) something else has to be buffed or tweaked. "GG-lords" are only op vs protoss because they take so little supply (they're not cost effective att all) so you can get maxed with an indestructible amount of broodlords. Vs terran broodlords aren't a problem, it's the broodlord ultra techswitch that's too powerful. fungal not being able to hit ghost is good, although I think it should at least reveal cloaked ghosts... | ||
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
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boon2537
United States905 Posts
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jax1492
United States1632 Posts
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smidge
United States25 Posts
On November 22 2012 02:21 TheDwf wrote: Yes, you can now spend half your gas to kill 2 Stalkers! So the big mistake people are making is that you have to spend the energy on Seekers. With the two ravens at 150 a piece, you can make 1 PDD, 4 Turrets -or- 1 PDD, 1 Turret, 1 Seeker -or- 3 Turrets, 1 Seeker... Nobody is saying it's stronger because you will use the seeker. They are saying it's stronger because you CAN use the seeker. | ||
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