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On November 21 2012 22:23 althaz wrote:
I heard about the fungal change in Monk's interview with the man in the greatest rock-related .gif of all time, but until I read this thread, I'd forgotten that DTs and Warp Prisms were psionic. I have gone from thinking this change is ok, to thinking it's THE BEST FUCKING IDEA EVER. Now Toss can actually abuse the immobility of infestor-brood and can legitimately go for macro-harass strategies. Right now harass becomes almost impossible once there's more than 4 infestors out, but with Prisms able to escape and DTs able to force static defense Toss can (if they are good enough) harass whilst building up their Carrier-HT-Archon-Whatever army and have the opportunity to actually beat Zergs in the late-game.
How do 4 infestors make harass not viable? If they are not in the main army just roll over them.
As a Zerg you want at least 8 Infestors to use some of them for defensive purpose.
And you are right, now Toss can marco up while having RIDICOULS harassing units. Speedprism? Can't be killed anymore.
Archons? Can't be fungaled. In combination? Unkillable air unit + mini AoE hard to kill unit which recovers 90% of its HP.
How would you think about roaches which when burrowed are as fast as a warppism? Great harass right? Maybe slightly imba right?
On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines).
But you do know that every unit and building u listed does more DPS and moves faster(okay u got me, spores move faster than rocketturrets :D) than anything Zerg has to defend SWPs?
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On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines). And as previous poster said, zerg have complete air domination against zerg. There is no reason why you shouldnt have a wall of overlords.
Spreading overlords vs toss is bad because if he goes air those overlords are dead. Its kinda like saying why dont you build all your pylons around your base in attackable position and not inside your base.
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Austria24422 Posts
On November 21 2012 22:30 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines). And as previous poster said, zerg have complete air domination against zerg. There is no reason why you shouldnt have a wall of overlords. Spreading overlords vs toss is bad because if he goes air those overlords are dead. Its kinda like saying why dont you build all your pylons around your base in attackable position and not inside your base.
Interesting since that's exactly what protoss does to spot for drops in TvP. Not ALL your pylons, obviously, but some to cover key paths.
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On November 21 2012 22:20 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:17 Beyond Magic wrote:
it's kinda silly that speed warp prisms are going to be unkillable for zerg, feels a bit too much considering how much units you can push out from em during late game. Oh you can! Just put enough corrupters in any possible spot (and maybe spores, more supply efficient i heard) that they can oneshot a prism which MAYBE appear there. And that at minute 10. If you can't do that cause you die to other allins/pushes you must scout better! Jesus ... so obvious, all zergs so bad at scouring. You need to scout more guys. Ezpz, I mean you got the most Imba scouting units right? riiiiiight? riiiiiiiiight, sir rock? Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:17 Fig wrote:
I think this way of changing Fungal could work well. Many people have thought that fungal is just too strong across the board. And usually Blizzard's answer is to nerf it into mediocrity like everything else. That approach has made many aspects of the game much less interesting.
Instead, they keep the power level the same, but make it so some units aren't affected. Now it is still a very powerful option against those units it still hits, but is no longer powerful against everything. This style of design is similar to spells like Irradiate or Lockdown or even EMP from WoL. A very powerful option, but only against certain units. The difference here is that fungal can be (as will still be) used against both other races. Making it a projectile would serve the same problem. BUT wouldn't affect a lot of ways you would use infestors are your core defensive unit (fungaling DTs to reveal, saving hatches with fungal from 10 DTs warped in, fungal sentries to prevent critical choke FFs etc ... ) I can't imagine how I should save a hatch from a mass DT warpin without surrouding every hatch with 8 spines. Fungaling was a way better and more interesting way to deal with that, involved WAY more skill by both players.
The point WAS to affect the multitude of ways you would use Infestors. The main problem is that they are so versatile that zergs have no reason to build anything else.
Now that may also mean that they need to buff some other units at the same time (hydras), in order to make other choices more viable, and I think they will. But when I see a Zerg using a strong spell like fungal on a single stalker or zealot, just because they have so much energy and so many Infestors, it screams "bad for the game". A change to a projectile or a slow would do nothing to discourage the insane massing of Infestors that we are currently seeing. They need to have their roles and get out of the way so that other units can see the light of day too. We want a dynamic game, and I believe Blizzard is on the right track with this change.
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On November 21 2012 22:30 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines). And as previous poster said, zerg have complete air domination against zerg. There is no reason why you shouldnt have a wall of overlords. Spreading overlords vs toss is bad because if he goes air those overlords are dead. Its kinda like saying why dont you build all your pylons around your base in attackable position and not inside your base.
Wouldn't call it bad but it is not an "all-heal" you still need your eyes to catch the glimpse of a SPW.
The faster the unit, the harder to catch on minimap.
And since Toss like SG openings more and more (which I think is right) and need an SG in lategame anyways it would be not too huge of an investment to build 2 phoenix and kill all OLs considering what it enables you to do after that.
And to give this some more facts: 15 Damage from Spore Crawler, 100/100 with +0 ups on Warpprism.
Mean one spore would need 11.5 seconds to kill a warppism.
Or you would need 14 spores which shoot all once to kill a WP.
Worse with Corruptor since they only do 14 Damage per shot and only 7.5 Air DPS (compared to Spores with 14.7)
So you would again need about 14 corruptor to kill one WP and even worse 1 corruptor would take 27 shots to kill a WP.
All this without any upgrades. Since both WP and Corruptor gain +1 each up it would even turn out worse with full ups (shields, hello?!)
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On November 21 2012 22:27 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:23 althaz wrote:
I heard about the fungal change in Monk's interview with the man in the greatest rock-related .gif of all time, but until I read this thread, I'd forgotten that DTs and Warp Prisms were psionic. I have gone from thinking this change is ok, to thinking it's THE BEST FUCKING IDEA EVER. Now Toss can actually abuse the immobility of infestor-brood and can legitimately go for macro-harass strategies. Right now harass becomes almost impossible once there's more than 4 infestors out, but with Prisms able to escape and DTs able to force static defense Toss can (if they are good enough) harass whilst building up their Carrier-HT-Archon-Whatever army and have the opportunity to actually beat Zergs in the late-game. How do 4 infestors make harass not viable? If they are not in the main army just roll over them.
Well one infestor in the main makes any drops basicly suicide if it has the energy for 2 fungals.
Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines). But you do know that every unit and building u listed does more DPS and moves faster(okay u got me, spores move faster than rocketturrets :D) than anything Zerg has to defend SWPs?
I listed 1 unit, and 1 building. That 1 unit ALOT slower than its zerg counterparts. But if you think marines are so great against drops, you might just as well try hydras. Pretty sure creep hydras are at least as fast as stimmed marines.
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Austria24422 Posts
On November 21 2012 22:33 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:30 phodacbiet wrote:On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines). And as previous poster said, zerg have complete air domination against zerg. There is no reason why you shouldnt have a wall of overlords. Spreading overlords vs toss is bad because if he goes air those overlords are dead. Its kinda like saying why dont you build all your pylons around your base in attackable position and not inside your base. Wouldn't call it bad but it is not an "all-heal" you still need your eyes to catch the glimpse of a SPW. The faster the unit, the harder to catch on minimap. And since Toss like SG openings more and more (which I think is right) and need an SG in lategame anyways it would be not too huge of an investment to build 2 phoenix and kill all OLs considering what it enables you to do after that.
Mind blowing idea: fungal the phoenixes.
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If you make Dark Templar and Warp Prism inmune to fungal if will be too much. The other units, kind of okey, but DT and Warp Prism is not okey, u need fungal to help take those units out. Or just watch Zerg horrible die to Protoss Harras.
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On November 21 2012 22:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:33 bluQ wrote:On November 21 2012 22:30 phodacbiet wrote:On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines). And as previous poster said, zerg have complete air domination against zerg. There is no reason why you shouldnt have a wall of overlords. Spreading overlords vs toss is bad because if he goes air those overlords are dead. Its kinda like saying why dont you build all your pylons around your base in attackable position and not inside your base. Wouldn't call it bad but it is not an "all-heal" you still need your eyes to catch the glimpse of a SPW. The faster the unit, the harder to catch on minimap. And since Toss like SG openings more and more (which I think is right) and need an SG in lategame anyways it would be not too huge of an investment to build 2 phoenix and kill all OLs considering what it enables you to do after that. Mind blowing idea: fungal the phoenixes.
In dead space? Show me the upgrade to grow my infestors wings 
On November 21 2012 22:34 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:27 bluQ wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 althaz wrote:
I heard about the fungal change in Monk's interview with the man in the greatest rock-related .gif of all time, but until I read this thread, I'd forgotten that DTs and Warp Prisms were psionic. I have gone from thinking this change is ok, to thinking it's THE BEST FUCKING IDEA EVER. Now Toss can actually abuse the immobility of infestor-brood and can legitimately go for macro-harass strategies. Right now harass becomes almost impossible once there's more than 4 infestors out, but with Prisms able to escape and DTs able to force static defense Toss can (if they are good enough) harass whilst building up their Carrier-HT-Archon-Whatever army and have the opportunity to actually beat Zergs in the late-game. How do 4 infestors make harass not viable? If they are not in the main army just roll over them. Well one infestor in the main makes any drops basicly suicide if it has the energy for 2 fungals. Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines). But you do know that every unit and building u listed does more DPS and moves faster(okay u got me, spores move faster than rocketturrets :D) than anything Zerg has to defend SWPs? I listed 1 unit, and 1 building. That 1 unit ALOT slower than its zerg counterparts. But if you think marines are so great against drops, you might just as well try hydras. Pretty sure creep hydras are at least as fast as stimmed marines.
Fyi, missle turrets do almost DOUBLE the DPS of spores.
And you want zerg to build HYDRAS in PvZ? You serious? I mean ... dead serious?
Got a cool idea if you want to play toss, just drop 4 chargelots near some hydras.
I am not saying that 8 Hydras wouldn't take out a prism but you are comparing 800/400 and 16 supply to 400 and 8 supply
And again Vikings > Corruptors. They got more than double the DPS.
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On November 21 2012 22:41 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On November 21 2012 22:33 bluQ wrote:On November 21 2012 22:30 phodacbiet wrote:On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines). And as previous poster said, zerg have complete air domination against zerg. There is no reason why you shouldnt have a wall of overlords. Spreading overlords vs toss is bad because if he goes air those overlords are dead. Its kinda like saying why dont you build all your pylons around your base in attackable position and not inside your base. Wouldn't call it bad but it is not an "all-heal" you still need your eyes to catch the glimpse of a SPW. The faster the unit, the harder to catch on minimap. And since Toss like SG openings more and more (which I think is right) and need an SG in lategame anyways it would be not too huge of an investment to build 2 phoenix and kill all OLs considering what it enables you to do after that. Mind blowing idea: fungal the phoenixes. In dead space? Show me the upgrade to grow my infestors wings Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:34 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:27 bluQ wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 althaz wrote:
I heard about the fungal change in Monk's interview with the man in the greatest rock-related .gif of all time, but until I read this thread, I'd forgotten that DTs and Warp Prisms were psionic. I have gone from thinking this change is ok, to thinking it's THE BEST FUCKING IDEA EVER. Now Toss can actually abuse the immobility of infestor-brood and can legitimately go for macro-harass strategies. Right now harass becomes almost impossible once there's more than 4 infestors out, but with Prisms able to escape and DTs able to force static defense Toss can (if they are good enough) harass whilst building up their Carrier-HT-Archon-Whatever army and have the opportunity to actually beat Zergs in the late-game. How do 4 infestors make harass not viable? If they are not in the main army just roll over them. Well one infestor in the main makes any drops basicly suicide if it has the energy for 2 fungals. On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines). But you do know that every unit and building u listed does more DPS and moves faster(okay u got me, spores move faster than rocketturrets :D) than anything Zerg has to defend SWPs? I listed 1 unit, and 1 building. That 1 unit ALOT slower than its zerg counterparts. But if you think marines are so great against drops, you might just as well try hydras. Pretty sure creep hydras are at least as fast as stimmed marines. Fyi, missle turrets do almost DOUBLE the DPS of spores. And you want zerg to build HYDRAS in PvZ? You serious? I mean ... dead serious? Got a cool idea if you want to play toss, just drop 4 chargelots near some hydras. And again Vikings > Corruptors. They got more than double the DPS.
Well you thought marines were so great against speed prisms. Then you can also make your hydras.
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Yeay! DTs here I come.
Now if Blizz would just kill the spore and overseer I could finally get out of gold.
On a serious note: I could see these chances making the match ups more interesting to watch.
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I only have an issue with Warp Prism's and DT's.
First of all, DT's should still be able to be fungaled due to the fact that they are a cloaked unit and fungal will decloak them and allow them to be killed. This will open up a lot of holes in the zerg defense, as well as a lot of holes in the zerg offense due to the lack of mobile detection. You'll have to have like 3 overseer's from now on when attacking protoss regardless if they have dt's because you don't have the backup of using fungal for that ability.
Also, with the warp prism, zerg being able to stop constant harass will be kinda dumb now because of the fact that, at least for myself in masters league, the main way I stop the warp prism harass is I always get the fungal off on the warp prism. Without that speed Warp Prisms will not die, unless the protoss is stupid.
Raven buff should help a little, but they probably should lower the cost of the seeker missle by a few points to make it more viable.
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Austria24422 Posts
On November 21 2012 22:41 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On November 21 2012 22:33 bluQ wrote:On November 21 2012 22:30 phodacbiet wrote:On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines). And as previous poster said, zerg have complete air domination against zerg. There is no reason why you shouldnt have a wall of overlords. Spreading overlords vs toss is bad because if he goes air those overlords are dead. Its kinda like saying why dont you build all your pylons around your base in attackable position and not inside your base. Wouldn't call it bad but it is not an "all-heal" you still need your eyes to catch the glimpse of a SPW. The faster the unit, the harder to catch on minimap. And since Toss like SG openings more and more (which I think is right) and need an SG in lategame anyways it would be not too huge of an investment to build 2 phoenix and kill all OLs considering what it enables you to do after that. Mind blowing idea: fungal the phoenixes. In dead space? Show me the upgrade to grow my infestors wings
Then put a new overlord there. Really, it's like protoss putting pylons around the map to spot for drops. They'll be destroyed every single time but they prevent a drop. Get overlord speed, move a new overlord there. Go with the flow of the game man!
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this fungal change is just retarded feels so forced... they should just make it slow or smthing or just remove it instead of just forcing this why would psionic units be immune to a fungal ? this would even confuse new players
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On November 21 2012 22:42 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:41 bluQ wrote:On November 21 2012 22:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On November 21 2012 22:33 bluQ wrote:On November 21 2012 22:30 phodacbiet wrote:On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines). And as previous poster said, zerg have complete air domination against zerg. There is no reason why you shouldnt have a wall of overlords. Spreading overlords vs toss is bad because if he goes air those overlords are dead. Its kinda like saying why dont you build all your pylons around your base in attackable position and not inside your base. Wouldn't call it bad but it is not an "all-heal" you still need your eyes to catch the glimpse of a SPW. The faster the unit, the harder to catch on minimap. And since Toss like SG openings more and more (which I think is right) and need an SG in lategame anyways it would be not too huge of an investment to build 2 phoenix and kill all OLs considering what it enables you to do after that. Mind blowing idea: fungal the phoenixes. In dead space? Show me the upgrade to grow my infestors wings On November 21 2012 22:34 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:27 bluQ wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 althaz wrote:
I heard about the fungal change in Monk's interview with the man in the greatest rock-related .gif of all time, but until I read this thread, I'd forgotten that DTs and Warp Prisms were psionic. I have gone from thinking this change is ok, to thinking it's THE BEST FUCKING IDEA EVER. Now Toss can actually abuse the immobility of infestor-brood and can legitimately go for macro-harass strategies. Right now harass becomes almost impossible once there's more than 4 infestors out, but with Prisms able to escape and DTs able to force static defense Toss can (if they are good enough) harass whilst building up their Carrier-HT-Archon-Whatever army and have the opportunity to actually beat Zergs in the late-game. How do 4 infestors make harass not viable? If they are not in the main army just roll over them. Well one infestor in the main makes any drops basicly suicide if it has the energy for 2 fungals. On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines). But you do know that every unit and building u listed does more DPS and moves faster(okay u got me, spores move faster than rocketturrets :D) than anything Zerg has to defend SWPs? I listed 1 unit, and 1 building. That 1 unit ALOT slower than its zerg counterparts. But if you think marines are so great against drops, you might just as well try hydras. Pretty sure creep hydras are at least as fast as stimmed marines. Fyi, missle turrets do almost DOUBLE the DPS of spores. And you want zerg to build HYDRAS in PvZ? You serious? I mean ... dead serious? Got a cool idea if you want to play toss, just drop 4 chargelots near some hydras. And again Vikings > Corruptors. They got more than double the DPS. Well you thought marines were so great against speed prisms. Then you can also make your hydras.
Editted into my post: cost and supply of hydras is WAY too much to make it viable and can't be used as versatile as you can use stimmed marines.
And the difference in dps is "only" 4 dps per unit. Meaning every u need 20 marines to one shot, and 14 hydras.
6 difference but in terms of cost and supply its WAY more.
On November 21 2012 22:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:41 bluQ wrote:On November 21 2012 22:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On November 21 2012 22:33 bluQ wrote:On November 21 2012 22:30 phodacbiet wrote:On November 21 2012 22:27 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:23 m0ck wrote:On November 21 2012 22:17 Sissors wrote:On November 21 2012 22:07 bluQ wrote:
oh and can someone explain to me how zerg should ever kill a speedprism? Considering zerg has way faster air to air than terran, how should terran ever kill a speed prism? (Hint: we do fine). Hello, my name is stimmed marine. And I am not fast enough to catch a speed prism and never ever used to defend against speed prisms. We simply use vikings (which are way slower than mutas) and missile turrets to defend against speed prisms. (You cannot surround your entire base with marines, and speed prism can always retreat a bit out of range of marines). And as previous poster said, zerg have complete air domination against zerg. There is no reason why you shouldnt have a wall of overlords. Spreading overlords vs toss is bad because if he goes air those overlords are dead. Its kinda like saying why dont you build all your pylons around your base in attackable position and not inside your base. Wouldn't call it bad but it is not an "all-heal" you still need your eyes to catch the glimpse of a SPW. The faster the unit, the harder to catch on minimap. And since Toss like SG openings more and more (which I think is right) and need an SG in lategame anyways it would be not too huge of an investment to build 2 phoenix and kill all OLs considering what it enables you to do after that. Mind blowing idea: fungal the phoenixes. In dead space? Show me the upgrade to grow my infestors wings Then put a new overlord there. Really, it's like protoss putting pylons around the map to spot for drops. They'll be destroyed every single time but they prevent a drop. Get overlord speed, move a new overlord there. Go with the flow of the game man!
Wtf? If toss has two phoenix on the map killing overlords you want zerg to put new ones there?
Its like saying: ur pylon got destroyed by 4 lings? Jesus just build a new one there, ezpz.
You seem to compare clutch and on point Zerg micro/awarness with a medicore toss micro/awarness...
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I don't like the seeker missile change cos it will lead to 1/1/1 with ravens and since the primary defence for protoss is zealots and they cluster alon also tanks do splash and marrines basicly can focus 1 shot a zealot with that push i don't see any way it will be stoped. People now are comparing the 1/1/1 with the sentry immortal push, but man... sentry immortal's nothing compared to 1/1/1. It has no variety unlike the 1/1/1 it hits at the same time always and the hard counters are actually there (bane drops/hydra/muta) but people just don't rush to them for god knows what reason.
Fungal nerf thumbs up!
Seeker missile buff... NO NO!
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HSM buff quite powerful, I mean, against a zerg with multiple fungals, that 1 raven with 1 HSM will surely completely change the delicate balance that is TvZ.
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On November 21 2012 22:44 kebeh wrote:
I only have an issue with Warp Prism's and DT's.
First of all, DT's should still be able to be fungaled due to the fact that they are a cloaked unit and fungal will decloak them and allow them to be killed. This will open up a lot of holes in the zerg defense, as well as a lot of holes in the zerg offense due to the lack of mobile detection. You'll have to have like 3 overseer's from now on when attacking protoss regardless if they have dt's because you don't have the backup of using fungal for that ability.
Also, with the warp prism, zerg being able to stop constant harass will be kinda dumb now because of the fact that, at least for myself in masters league, the main way I stop the warp prism harass is I always get the fungal off on the warp prism. Without that speed Warp Prisms will not die, unless the protoss is stupid.
Raven buff should help a little, but they probably should lower the cost of the seeker missle by a few points to make it more viable.
How about fucking zergs stop relying on fungal growth to counter and kill every single different type of unit. you have spores, you have overseers, use them. You don't need fungal to kill hidden units. You poor fucking zergs still don't understand protoss only has one way to get a mobile detection and I have to stop making cols/imms to get it.
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Sorry for the stupid question, but how can I play this map on the EU server? "Antiga Shipyard (1.5.3 Balance)" got no hits.
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It's not as sexy as making it a slow down, but at least fungal doesn't counter absolutely everything....
DT's harras is going to require more effort to deal with... I'm up for a try at this
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EPT
