monk: Just talked to Dustin and did an interview. There's a mistake in this translation. He said in the test map, Psionic units will be unaffected by Fungal, not Neural. Also, they're looking into a lot of changes for the infestor, including removing Neural entirely in HotS.
On November 18 2012 02:32 Stress wrote: By this point we honestly shouldn't expect more from Blizzard fellas. Between the "knee-jerk" nerfs and now the long, drawn out discussions on what to balance it has become obvious that Blizzard is clueless as to what to do with the game, in my opinion. Strike Cannons? Neural Parasite? This isn't what the community has been complaining about for the past several months. I'm beginning to think that they should just clean house and hire new people to take a look at the game. Judging from a lot of the comments in this thread Blizzard has already lost the faith of the community.
Dustin Browder was asked about revamping WoL units in HotS, what else did you expect him to say? They're going to possibly nerf neural and fungal growth, isn't that enough for you?
On November 17 2012 22:00 Jumbled wrote: I don't like it. I'd rather a change that gets away from relying on the mothership in lategame PvZ. This change to neural just makes it more important.
Because In WoL its impossible to not rely on the mothership in some way if you choose not to do a prehive or GSpire timing.
Hmmm he mentioned that they believe that balancing infested terrans is difficult, and while I agree that it can easily become too weak with tweaking (and become more like the auto turret) I’m curious why they haven't tried playing around with what the infestor did in the early WOL beta. So make it that the IT spell spawns 2 IT’s for the cost of 50 energy (or 3 for 75) instead of 1 for 25. This way the spell hasn’t been ‘nerfed’ per say, it still has the same potential, but the infestor itself is less useful in more situations, due to the higher cost of its spells.
It would also mean that low energy infestors would be more punishing to the zerg, which is not always the case in WOL, as a steady stream of IT can actually hold off some pushes (which feels silly).
At least now that BWC is almost over we can start to see some changes =).
On November 18 2012 02:31 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: When I think about it, NP'd mothership is like the only cool thing I appreciate in the PvZ match-up. :[
I find NPing the mothership really cool, the main problem for me is most the time that's what the entire game comes down to
Exactly, that's what you get when you introduce a 'hero' unit that is so strong than only one is allowed. That problem would never happen with arbiters, because you would've 3-4 and losing 1 for a couple of seconds wouldn't be that much of a deal.
On November 18 2012 02:25 AcesAnoka wrote: great, tvz is still fucked.
Depends on that what the fungel missile is like. If it moves slower that stimmed, that could be pretty awesome and dodgeable. Also, hitting air units like phoenixes would be harder as well.
But if the Z can still get +20 infestors late game, which is the big problem right now, it doesn't matter if you miss 1 or 2 missiles, you still get plenty of them. Once you hit -> root -> impossible to fail a chain fungal.
On November 17 2012 22:03 Snowbear wrote: That infestor change will not help terrans! People tend to forget that besides protoss players, terrans are having a sick hard time against broodlord infestor. Protoss players have the mothership, we have nothing. Ravens do work, but 1) the tech to it is so slow, 2) the zerg has to CLUMP his units.
Yeah dude you're 100% right. I mean Zergs nowadays always have double digit numbers of Broodlord Infestor before you get that tech lab on the Starport.
-_-
What a stupid statement. Your second point is fine, Ravens rely on heavy clumping so it's not guaranteed. Having said that, I never see Terran players split their Vikings. You always see them split their Marines against Banelings and Fungal, but never Vikings...
On November 18 2012 02:40 GattAttack wrote: Hmmm he mentioned that they believe that balancing infested terrans is difficult, and while I agree that it can easily become too weak with tweaking (and become more like the auto turret) I’m curious why they haven't tried playing around with what the infestor did in the early WOL beta. So make it that the IT spell spawns 2 IT’s for the cost of 50 energy (or 3 for 75) instead of 1 for 25. This way the spell hasn’t been ‘nerfed’ per say, it still has the same potential, but the infestor itself is less useful in more situations, due to the higher cost of its spells.
It would also mean that low energy infestors would be more punishing to the zerg, which is not always the case in WOL, as a steady stream of IT can actually hold off some pushes (which feels silly).
At least now that BWC is over we can start to see some changes =).
Yeah I think making the spell cost more even if it means same number of infested terrans can help in SOME situations.
But those engagements where the infested terrans are used to create 100 extra supply of fighting units in an engagement wouldn't really change.
On November 18 2012 02:36 SarcasmMonster wrote: Why do people like @Avilo and others say that Infested Terrans will remain the same when in this interview, they very specifically said they'll look into it?
Do they read the interview than ignore what they just read? I don't understand how someone's train of thought works like that at all.
A couple months from now Polt or maybe Taeja will beat some foreigner Zergs at an overseas event and Blizzard will announce that infestors are still fine.
On November 17 2012 22:03 Snowbear wrote: That infestor change will not help terrans! People tend to forget that besides protoss players, terrans are having a sick hard time against broodlord infestor. Protoss players have the mothership, we have nothing. Ravens do work, but 1) the tech to it is so slow, 2) the zerg has to CLUMP his units.
Yeah dude you're 100% right. I mean Zergs nowadays always have double digit numbers of Broodlord Infestor before you get that tech lab on the Starport.
-_-
What a stupid statement. Your second point is fine, Ravens rely on heavy clumping so it's not guaranteed. Having said that, I never see Terran players split their Vikings. You always see them split their Marines against Banelings and Fungal, but never Vikings...
They do, but air units have the best let's go clump up AI ever seen. Anyways, it's getting the starport + upgrades + building time + time to get enough energy for HKM. And if you get that early instead of reactored vikings, good luck with your life because building some HKM ravens (enough to be able to get a few good HKM shots withouth getting fungaled), takes way more time and resources than the scenario you are speaking off, because infestors are the top notch core unit of zerg midgame anyways. Stop being a prick btw.
On November 17 2012 22:03 Snowbear wrote: That infestor change will not help terrans! People tend to forget that besides protoss players, terrans are having a sick hard time against broodlord infestor. Protoss players have the mothership, we have nothing. Ravens do work, but 1) the tech to it is so slow, 2) the zerg has to CLUMP his units.
Yeah dude you're 100% right. I mean Zergs nowadays always have double digit numbers of Broodlord Infestor before you get that tech lab on the Starport.
You're right, Ravens are easy to tech to. However, they're very difficult to mass. Infestors and HTs are expensive, but they build from basic structures -- it's easy to dump as much gas as you've got money into them. Starport + Tech Lab is a rather expensive unit-producing structure, particularly if you're going to fill it for 60 game-seconds to produce one Raven.
Ravens also need more energy to deploy their good spells; a 75-mana Raven is a pretty worthless caster.
On November 18 2012 02:36 SarcasmMonster wrote: Why do people like @Avilo and others say that Infested Terrans will remain the same when in this interview, they very specifically said they'll look into it?
Do they read the interview than ignore what they just read? I don't understand how someone's train of thought works like that at all.
Yeah you're right, some guys can't read the full translation before QQ-ing
On November 18 2012 02:32 Stress wrote: By this point we honestly shouldn't expect more from Blizzard fellas. Between the "knee-jerk" nerfs and now the long, drawn out discussions on what to balance it has become obvious that Blizzard is clueless as to what to do with the game, in my opinion. Strike Cannons? Neural Parasite? This isn't what the community has been complaining about for the past several months. I'm beginning to think that they should just clean house and hire new people to take a look at the game. Judging from a lot of the comments in this thread Blizzard has already lost the faith of the community.
Dustin Browder was asked about revamping WoL units in HotS, what else did you expect him to say? They're going to possibly nerf neural and fungal growth, isn't that enough for you?
Late game PvZ is just a big gimmick(along with TvZ). You have fungal, which stops units from moving, then on the other end you have the mothership, neither of which are fun to play or watch. Just changing fungal to a projectile and nerfing NP isn't going to fix anything, the inability to micro once you are fungaled is the problem. The reason the infestor is this way right now is because of poor design choices for the rest of the Zerg arsenal(hydras, nydus worm, roach). There are plenty of ways to improve the game as it stands right now they just aren't being done. Some alterations on a couple of units and this game would be in a much better state, in my opinion. Waiting 4.5 months for HotS is silly when you can help fix the game right now and make it a more enjoyable experience for both the players and the viewers.
Michael Morhaime also announced that if you purchased the non-subscription pack of SC2 on Chinese server, you can upgrade to HOTS for free when it releases.
On November 18 2012 01:54 Decendos wrote: like the neural on MS change but making fungal a projectile is just stupid. blinkstalker will be completely broken. good player will be able to dodge too many times. blinkstalker are already borderline OP.
it will be either as slow as in the video (so every gold+ player can dodge it) or has to be so fast that nothing will change. just a bad idea. make fungal a slow already!
and nothing mentioned how to compensate zerg?! no hydra buff? no ultra buff? no cost buff to SH and viper?
The problem with the Infestor actually isnt Fungal or the Infested Terran itself ... its the ability to STACK THEM through massing Infestors and then using the energy to "burst fire" all their power in one battle and then get out again to regenerate energy before the next battle.
One Fungal isnt a problem or truly overpowered ... although it is a terribly boring and dull spell; 3-4 Infested Terrans arent a problem. The spells become overpowered when there are 2-3 Fungals on the same stack of units in succession to kill them without any danger to any Zerg unit (since range 9 is more than any infantry can shoot). 30-40 Infested Terrans fill the battlefield with lots of green eggs and then brown units which are indistinguishable from the Zerg creep or most of the regular ground ... and its even worse in a ZvZ with both sides spamming eggs.
Sooo ... the way to solve the problem is to reduce the number of Infestors in an area which can interfere in a battle. That OR increasing the energy by a lot [125 for Fungal, 50 for IT].
On November 17 2012 22:03 Snowbear wrote: That infestor change will not help terrans! People tend to forget that besides protoss players, terrans are having a sick hard time against broodlord infestor. Protoss players have the mothership, we have nothing. Ravens do work, but 1) the tech to it is so slow, 2) the zerg has to CLUMP his units.
Yeah dude you're 100% right. I mean Zergs nowadays always have double digit numbers of Broodlord Infestor before you get that tech lab on the Starport.
-_-
What a stupid statement. Your second point is fine, Ravens rely on heavy clumping so it's not guaranteed. Having said that, I never see Terran players split their Vikings. You always see them split their Marines against Banelings and Fungal, but never Vikings...
If u focus fire with units they stack no matter what
On November 18 2012 03:07 FuriousGool wrote: The game will be fixed with only 2 changes.\
Broodlord - > 6 supply Infestor - > 3 supply
After this Zerg will be underpowered. Zerg needs a redesign in general and hots would be a great opportunity, imo the infestor should be removed, it is a broken unit like warhound and doesn't fits zerg anyway. With the swarmhost and some hydra buffs the game would be fine for midgame and for lategame make the viper more useful and zerg will be fine, there is really no need for the infestor.
A: I used the random, I would use any race, I know almost all race tactics, as well as a variety of wave flow and strokes.
I have new respect for bald brother san.
I translate this for you
Q: What builds do you prefer?
A (Dustin Browder): I use random, so I know how to use every race. I know almost all builds (including all-ins) of three races. I'm very good in first 10 to 15 minutes--as good as professional players. But as the game goes on, I become weaker and weaker, especially after reaching 200 supply.
EPT
