November 15, 2012 - DreamHack, Electronic Sports League (ESL) and Major League Gaming (MLG) today announced a robust partnership surrounding all tournament activity for the remainder of 2012 and the upcoming 2013 season. The collaboration aims to unify and align DreamHack, ESL and MLG’s eSports activity on a global basis to further competitive activity, benefit players and spectators, alleviate the taxing event schedule, eliminate confusion about global standings and help nurture the development of North American and European players.
The groups hope that the partnership will be the foundation for global cooperation between all eSports organizations.
“DreamHack’s philosophy has always been about inclusion and never exclusion,” said Robert Ohlén. CEO of DreamHack AB. “This joint initiative by MLG, ESL and DreamHack is something that will insure the continued growth of eSports that we have been seeing during the past 24 months, for the players, the audience and the industry as a whole.”
“We are confident that with this partnership we are shaping the future of our sport,” said Ralf Reichert, CEO of Turtle Entertainment GmbH. “Working with DreamHack and MLG we can create a more manageable and sustainable infrastructure for players that will become the basis for eSports to realize its full potential.”
“The growth of competitive gaming over the last few years has been staggering and we have now reached the point where we need to align our efforts to advance eSports on a global scale,” said Sundance DiGiovanni, CEO and Co-founder of MLG. “The collaboration between our organizations is the first step in a united effort to take the sport to the next level while benefiting all of those involved.”
The partnership includes, but is not limited to the following:
Universal Ranking: A universal ranking system across organizations for all major game titles directly impacting seeding and event qualification.
Master Tournament Calendar: One event calendar ensuring a minimum or no conflicts to ease players’ schedules and enables fans across the globe to easily spectate.
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Talent and Marketing Efforts: Cross promotion and support for all leagues to drive further awareness for eSports and league activities, as well as a shared roster of commentators and broadcast talent.
wow. didn't see that one coming, but really a huge step forward for the scene if they really do all they say they will. wonder if they'll open up for other tournaments like Asus rog and IPL even GSL to help with scheduling.
This is actually what e-sports needed. There was too many tournaments to follow previously so I just selectively chose a few. Now I its a no-brainer for most people.
Universal Ranking: A universal ranking system across organizations for all major game titles directly impacting seeding and event qualification.
I always like seeing new faces, even though they usually bomb out during the first few rounds, but sometimes they bring exciting games to the table. Hope this does not make it harder for newcomers to enter one of these tournaments, because too many players will be seated.
On the other hand, we need a consistent professional scene, meaning you want to see all the best players all of the time (possibly), if we want to push eSports. So except for that, great news everyone! Let's grow eSports!
This is awesome. Having a better organised tournament timetable is better for the viewers, players and organisers. The universal ranking is a cool idea and the unified competition structure is an excellent idea (hopefully no more MLG bracketception). Hopefully some of the other major tournament organisers, like IPL and IEM, can be brought into this as well because it should be better if all the major tournaments are involved.
Just this, and now what we are missing is a big "PLAYERS"(literally) federation, outside korea.Something like fnatic+mouz+eg+liquid+millenium+quantic+col and the rest, in the same org.
This is good, but I hope they dont create an "us and them" situation between DH/MLG/ESL and any other actor on the market. MLG/Gom seem to have a few unsettled businesses and I hope this doesnt force DH/ESL onto their side while GOM/IPL/NASL/You name it do their own thing on thier side.
Universal Ranking - This could get messy. With MLG being mostly for NA and ESL/DH more for EU. I wonder whats gonna happen with rankings when its like 10:1 NA:EU players at MLG and vice versa. How will an EU player not taking part in MLG be ranked and seeded compared to an NA player not taking part in DH? Even more messy since big actors (IPL/GOM/NASL) isnt a part of this. Master calendar - Great. Unified Competition Structure - I never really minded the different formats, but dont mind this either. Talent and Marketing Efforts - Great.
This could be the first step to a global E-Sports organization that would be able to promote E-Sports as one group. Which by the way, is one of the road blocks to getting E-Sports in the Olympics if I do recall reading. Super special awesome move made by these three. Now to just include some others. :D
On November 16 2012 01:06 sztanpet wrote: wheres GOM?
MLG has a partnership with Kespa, Kespa and GOM don't like eachother. Do the math.
For once I don't think Kespa hating GOM and vice versa had anything to do with this. I think this was a move purely for the foreign scene to get all of our tournaments running on par with each other and not getting in each others way etc.
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Does this mean no more extended series? Or extended series to DH and ESL!?
No (I don't think this means that). I think this means more something in the direction of a super tournament where the champions of MLG, DH and IEM play. Or IEM winners autoqualify for MLG and vice versa etc.
On November 16 2012 01:06 sztanpet wrote: wheres GOM?
MLG has a partnership with Kespa, Kespa and GOM don't like eachother. Do the math.
For once I don't think Kespa hating GOM and vice versa had anything to do with this. I think this was a move purely for the foreign scene to get all of our tournaments running on par with each other and not getting in each others way etc.
That could be true as well. Could also be alittle bit of both.
The devil is in the details. Hard to judge the effort before we know how everything is implemented. Remember to leave room for corrections: It is usually the case that 100.000 eyes sees keener than the 20 or so involved in the design-effort, and unintended consequences can have major impact once there is one ranking for everyone and everything.
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Does this mean no more extended series? Or extended series to DH and ESL!?
No. I think this means more something in the direction of a super tournament where the champions of MLG, DH and IEM play. Or IEM winners autoqualify for MLG and vice versa etc.
We are aiming to have shared maps, tournament structure, and similar qualification across all titles.
With this occasion DH might lend a little help to MLG production to make it closer to DH epicness :> But the most important change, we won't see DH and MLG in the same time frame. Happened at least 2 times this year if I remember right.
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Does this mean no more extended series? Or extended series to DH and ESL!?
No. I think this means more something in the direction of a super tournament where the champions of MLG, DH and IEM play. Or IEM winners autoqualify for MLG and vice versa etc.
We are aiming to have shared maps, tournament structure, and similar qualification across all titles.
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Does this mean no more extended series? Or extended series to DH and ESL!?
No. I think this means more something in the direction of a super tournament where the champions of MLG, DH and IEM play. Or IEM winners autoqualify for MLG and vice versa etc.
We are aiming to have shared maps, tournament structure, and similar qualification across all titles.
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Does this mean no more extended series? Or extended series to DH and ESL!?
No. I think this means more something in the direction of a super tournament where the champions of MLG, DH and IEM play. Or IEM winners autoqualify for MLG and vice versa etc.
We are aiming to have shared maps, tournament structure, and similar qualification across all titles.
I love you man, so don't pussy out on this one :D
Dota 2 at MLG?
I'm like Marty Mcfly, I can never back down from a call out....
I'll see how it turns out, it might easily end up as an effort to shut out minor players out of the scene completely. Shoutcraft, Lonestar, IPL, Homestory...
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Does this mean no more extended series? Or extended series to DH and ESL!?
No. I think this means more something in the direction of a super tournament where the champions of MLG, DH and IEM play. Or IEM winners autoqualify for MLG and vice versa etc.
We are aiming to have shared maps, tournament structure, and similar qualification across all titles.
I love you man, so don't pussy out on this one :D
Dota 2 at MLG?
I'm like Marty Mcfly, I can never back down from a call out....
Maybeeeeee
:D, okay, one more indirect answer, one more!
You're gonna make Dota 2 tournaments next year? (When riot's exclusivity deal ends with MLG )
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Does this mean no more extended series? Or extended series to DH and ESL!?
No. I think this means more something in the direction of a super tournament where the champions of MLG, DH and IEM play. Or IEM winners autoqualify for MLG and vice versa etc.
We are aiming to have shared maps, tournament structure, and similar qualification across all titles.
I hope this means that you can change the map pool more often since all the tourneys will use the new maps, meaning players will have to practice for them anyway. The extremely stale and bland map pool is one of major faults in the game currently imo.
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Does this mean no more extended series? Or extended series to DH and ESL!?
No. I think this means more something in the direction of a super tournament where the champions of MLG, DH and IEM play. Or IEM winners autoqualify for MLG and vice versa etc.
We are aiming to have shared maps, tournament structure, and similar qualification across all titles.
I hope this means that you can change the map pool more often since all the tourneys will use the new maps, meaning players will have to practice for them anyway. The extremely stale and bland map pool is one of major faults in the game currently imo.
I agree with this x10000000 I think it's pretty much the only major fault in the game right now. I hope when PL comes back they will have started making their own kick ass maps again to inject some new blood into the game!
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Does this mean that all of the tournaments will adopt a similar tournament procedure? Some clarification will be nice.
I believe someone from MLG posted just a bit earlier in this thread about that. Something along the lines of they want to all have similar(Possibly exact same?) formats/map pools/Qualifing procedures. etc.
This is probably the biggest SC2 news of the year. Hopefully it means the best possible tournament format (especially for MLG) if they all adopt a similar one. I think MLG could take some lessons from DH format.
On November 16 2012 01:32 Fenrax wrote: Very much about time. Still a great news. Now if only Kespa and ESF can get their shit together and partner up as well it would be great.
I don't see them EVER partnering up. But with that HotS show match they didn't have any drama they just put on a show match together to help promote the scene. Of course they could have been forced into it by Blizzard to promo HotS BUT I remain optimistic that they just worked together because they realize helping the scene is helping themselves as well. and the amount of drama kicked up by trying ot wipe each other out will kill the scene in Korea and ruin themselves too.
This is amazing, I hope MLG and ESL can learn a thing or two (like Production value, format(fuck you, extended series), and the easely accecable streams) from DH and not the other way around.
On November 16 2012 01:05 CloudCat wrote: wow. didn't see that one coming, but really a huge step forward for the scene if they really do all they say they will. wonder if they'll open up for other tournaments like Asus rog and IPL even GSL to help with scheduling.
It's a partnership built with the intention to be open, not an elite, exclusive club.
Very happy to see the good groundwork put in place at the Valencia Esports Congress has led to this. Really proud that three major organisations could set aside differences in culture and money and agree to move forward for the better of the entire industry.
For those who said the congress would achieve nothing - Believe in passion, believe in esports.
On November 16 2012 01:05 CloudCat wrote: wow. didn't see that one coming, but really a huge step forward for the scene if they really do all they say they will. wonder if they'll open up for other tournaments like Asus rog and IPL even GSL to help with scheduling.
It's a partnership built with the intention to be open, not an elite, exclusive club.
On November 16 2012 01:06 sztanpet wrote: wheres GOM?
MLG has a partnership with Kespa, Kespa and GOM don't like eachother. Do the math.
For once I don't think Kespa hating GOM and vice versa had anything to do with this. I think this was a move purely for the foreign scene to get all of our tournaments running on par with each other and not getting in each others way etc.
It would also be pretty hard to adapt international tournament to the gsl schedule considering it goes on for pretty much every day of the week. The Korean players that participate in foreign players are the ones that are lucky enough not to have any gsl games that week (or gom is able to move games a few days here and there), and I don't think a partnership would help in that regard unless gom is prepared to change their entire layout.
Hrm, interesting. On one level, it's awesome. On the other, it kind of eliminates the individualness and the different opportunities given by each organisation.
On November 16 2012 01:42 StickyFlower wrote: This is amazing, I hope MLG and ESL can learn a thing or two (like Production value, format(fuck you, extended series), and the easely accecable streams) from DH and not the other way around.
Though I like Dreamhack very much MLG is not behind when it comes to production value.
Well, this all sounds good, but why are so many major organisations left out then? What's with GOM/Gretech or IPL? What's with KESPA? Is the SC2 world about to be split in two halves? Is this what's tried to be achieved here?
On November 16 2012 01:06 Wyrd wrote: Oh this is beautiful. I would love to see less frequent but bigger, global tournaments courtesy of this partnership. For E-Sports!
This 100% times over. It's nice to always have something you can watch, but it's a bit too much at time. Bigger tournies will help bring more people in and draw bigger crowds too.
On November 16 2012 01:52 TeeTS wrote: Well, this all sounds good, but why are so many major organisations left out then? What's with GOM/Gretech or IPL? What's with KESPA? Is the SC2 world about to be split in two halves? Is this what's tried to be achieved here?
Absolutely not. You should regard this as a first step with more to come.
No conspiracy theories please. This is meant to be inclusive. We want to have universal story lines that stretch across all tournaments and tournament action that is the same from event to event so fans are not relearning systems every weekend.
This will apply to all games we mutually operate whether it be SC2, LoL, Dota, Halo, CoD, etc. etc. etc.
It would've been nice to also see NASL and IPL get involved in this, since that would cover pretty much all the large tournaments outside of Korea, at least not clashing with each other.
Any NASL/IPL insiders hanging about want to say anything about this? If they were approached if so why they decided not to join up?
On November 16 2012 01:52 TeeTS wrote: Well, this all sounds good, but why are so many major organisations left out then? What's with GOM/Gretech or IPL? What's with KESPA? Is the SC2 world about to be split in two halves? Is this what's tried to be achieved here?
Absolutely not. You should regard this as a first step with more to come.
Yeah the uncritical mass, allways jumping on the first hype train that's avaiable. I ask myself what value does an international tournament calendar have, if GSL, OSL and IPL are not part of it. This is a move by those 3 organisations to pull ahead in the tournament competition, but definately no step to a united ESPORT/SC2 governing body. This is way too exclusive...
On November 16 2012 01:29 skeldark wrote: Sad but intelligent move. Good for the them but bad for the viewers. Will be hard for smaller tournaments to compete.
On the contrary, with the 'big leagues' being better defined, it allows amateur and semi-pro leagues to flourish.
I will be releasing a conversation that several esports people had a few weeks back in which we discussed this very opportunity. It is an mp3 podcast recording from RaidCall... and I feel its very informative and relevant to this very subject.
Organizers really have to look at themselves in a different way much like t.v. networks/hosts; whereas, Twitch/Own3d act as the providers. Glad we're starting to see at least some movement.
On November 16 2012 01:52 TeeTS wrote: Well, this all sounds good, but why are so many major organisations left out then? What's with GOM/Gretech or IPL? What's with KESPA? Is the SC2 world about to be split in two halves? Is this what's tried to be achieved here?
Absolutely not. You should regard this as a first step with more to come.
Yeah the uncritical mass, allways jumping on the first hype train that's avaiable. I ask myself what value does an international tournament calendar have, if GSL, OSL and IPL are not part of it. This is a move by those 3 organisations to pull ahead in the tournament competition, but definately no step to a united ESPORT/SC2 governing body. This is way too exclusive...
It's got to start from somewhere to get the proverbial ball rolling.
The organizers have to realize they aren't really in competition with each other to hold strong in the first place. Sure, they act as hosts of tournaments. They need to realize they're only one peg on the wagon. Much like your Formula 1's and so forth.
I would have liked to seen them come altogether with the teams and try to establish policy but that will have to come in due time.
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Wow!! Seems like a complete reversal from the 2012 model ... a really welocme change!
There are 2 points that I would love to see more detail about. First would be how this will affect HD passes like MLG gold membership? Will there be a global pass or will each tournament still administer that individually? It also seems like MLG will be changing their tournament format. Could this be the end of the marathon open brackets and the end of the extended series?
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
About god damn time that SOMEONE tries to fix the problems of tournament overload, both for players and for fans. Hopefully they put this all up on a public website so we can all see the schedule, etc. :D
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
Double elimination is the bane of SC2 right now. To many games, to hard to plan, do difficult to broadcast. I would rather watch 50 awesome elimination games in a weekend than 250 games, some that are not broadcast. It hard to follow, brutal on the players and just leads to generic, run of the mill, substandard games.
MLG's goal in 2013 (and I know our EU friends share similar views) is to broadcast every single tournament match that takes place on the floor. Stay tuned for more soon.
On November 16 2012 02:25 MLG_Adam wrote: MLG's goal in 2013 (and I know our EU friends share similar views) is to broadcast every single tournament match that takes place on the floor. Stay tuned for more soon.
does this includ every game from the open bracket? if so, this gonna need alot of stream
Guys.. the idea here I believe is that the tournament organizers can remain as they are. That they can still push their own identity and custom formats. I would hate to see conformity that totally changes the uniqueness of each tournament.
As I have proposed.. this Association/Circuit.. should be more like the PGA (Professional Gold Association) with each tournament having its own identity and features. The idea here is first to get the organizations to work together on a circuit calendar.. not about making all of the formats the same. Each organization should still compete for players and teams and compete for sponsors and for added production value.. but at the same time a circuit of specifically listed events and rankings/points to be earned can increase the 'buying' power of the esports industry.
The Masters (Golf) is different from the US Open... but both are on a circuit with a points/rankings system that carries across all 'sanctioned' PGA events. This allows each organization to remain a competitor with others to improve the product.. but unifies the organizations to provide better opportunities for the industry as a whole.
Curious if this is an equal partnership or does one have to say more than the others. For example I hope this doesn't mean stuff like MLG telling Robert to stop cursing on camera
Universal Ranking: A universal ranking system across organizations for all major game titles directly impacting seeding and event qualification.
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
I was kind of curious what these things really meant. It might not be great that every tournament has the same structure. What is the universla ranking system going to be like, too? I think Carmac made a great point before on twitter today where he talked about the middle ranking pro's and their difficulties in the scene. If the same 30 players get seeded continously across all the tournaments then it will be harder to break out or to earn money, which ultimately will be to the detriment of starcraft.
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
Double elimination is the bane of SC2 right now. To many games, to hard to plan, do difficult to broadcast. I would rather watch 50 awesome elimination games in a weekend than 250 games, some that are not broadcast. It hard to follow, brutal on the players and just leads to generic, run of the mill, substandard games.
While I agree with you that scheduling *the most important games* to appear on a stream gets dicey (because of how subjective it becomes, and you end up with some players ::coughPoltcough:: not getting much air time), as far as tournament format and fairness goes, I always thought it was pretty much established that double elimination is fine, but it's the extended series in addition to double elimination that's the central problem. The extended series seems to be the biggest controversy, and that's what a good number of people want eliminated.
coming.. details on a ranking algorithm that I created a few years back while at the GGL (Global Gaming League)... for this very sort of circuit.
I will say now.. any rankings system that uses a 'raw points earned' system will be flawed and do exactly the opposite of what appears to be proposed. Any ranking system used must be relative to the number of events an individual attends.. not points that accure from attending more events then someone else. Yes.. there must be a number of events attended that are required as part of the rankings.. (ie: a player must attend 5 of 9 circuit events for rankings)...
Anyway.. --- Global Points System details coming soon.
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
Double elimination is the bane of SC2 right now. To many games, to hard to plan, do difficult to broadcast. I would rather watch 50 awesome elimination games in a weekend than 250 games, some that are not broadcast. It hard to follow, brutal on the players and just leads to generic, run of the mill, substandard games.
While I agree with you that scheduling *the most important games* to appear on a stream gets dicey (because of how subjective it becomes, and you end up with some players ::coughPoltcough:: not getting much air time), as far as tournament format and fairness goes, I always thought it was pretty much established that double elimination is fine, but it's the extended series in addition to double elimination that's the central problem. The extended series seems to be the biggest controversy, and that's what a good number of people want eliminated.
Double elimination isn't used in any real sport. Why not learn from organisations that make sports entertainment for Billions of viewers? Why not a simple group stage and a single elimination tournament? Not that abomination of a tournament table like MLG, were group play standings give you an so huge advantage. Learn from FIFA world cup, the biggest sports event ever.
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Wow!! Seems like a complete reversal from the 2012 model ... a really welocme change!
It makes me sad when people imply that MLG has become PPV, just because a few added, satellite MLG events ran that model. Some people conveniently forget that the entire regular, main circuit is still free (unless you want extras or super HD, which is what pretty much every tournament asks you to pay a little towards anyway). The central MLG competition has consistently been free for SC2 viewers, and I'm excited that it (and other tournaments) will continue to have free options.
Hugely awesome development. If we can get kespa flying under the same banner, we'd be on our way to being unified like any other professional sport. Plus, less tournament fatigue
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
Double elimination is the bane of SC2 right now. To many games, to hard to plan, do difficult to broadcast. I would rather watch 50 awesome elimination games in a weekend than 250 games, some that are not broadcast. It hard to follow, brutal on the players and just leads to generic, run of the mill, substandard games.
While I agree with you that scheduling *the most important games* to appear on a stream gets dicey (because of how subjective it becomes, and you end up with some players ::coughPoltcough:: not getting much air time), as far as tournament format and fairness goes, I always thought it was pretty much established that double elimination is fine, but it's the extended series in addition to double elimination that's the central problem. The extended series seems to be the biggest controversy, and that's what a good number of people want eliminated.
Double elimination isn't used in any real sport. Why not learn from organisations that make sports entertainment for Billions of viewers? Why not a simple group stage and a single elimination tournament? Not that abomination of a tournament table like MLG, were group play standings give you an so huge advantage. Learn from FIFA world cup, the biggest sports event ever.
While sports and e-sports are very comparable in some regards, they aren't as equal in others. Even a best of three SC2 match takes about an hour. Do we really want half of the players to go home after their first match is over? The idea that they have a second life (especially if the randomized draws don't immediately fall in their favor) is reassuring to both the players and the spectators. I could definitely see players being less happy about flying halfway around the world if they have fewer chances to make it through a tournament. It certainly doesn't make the format less fair either, as long as every player has two lives (including the player who makes it to the finals through the winner's bracket). Just because a tournament format is different than FIFA's doesn't mean it's worse given a totally different scenario
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
Double elimination is the bane of SC2 right now. To many games, to hard to plan, do difficult to broadcast. I would rather watch 50 awesome elimination games in a weekend than 250 games, some that are not broadcast. It hard to follow, brutal on the players and just leads to generic, run of the mill, substandard games.
While I agree with you that scheduling *the most important games* to appear on a stream gets dicey (because of how subjective it becomes, and you end up with some players ::coughPoltcough:: not getting much air time), as far as tournament format and fairness goes, I always thought it was pretty much established that double elimination is fine, but it's the extended series in addition to double elimination that's the central problem. The extended series seems to be the biggest controversy, and that's what a good number of people want eliminated.
Double elmination presents a whole series of problems, most of which the viewers are not aware of. A lot of them are on the broadcast side and prevent us from seeing a lot of games. Here are a few I have seen in the last year off the top of my head:
- Inability to predict who is going to play who. Leads to players doing generic builds because they cannot prepare for everything.
- Limited ability to prepare to broadcast the next match, due to different groups moving at different speeds. Set up time for the players is also a factor.
- To many games for the players, who can't eat, sleep or even know when their match is going to take place. Naniwa vs Flash at 2 am would still be a terrible match because its 2 am and they are both jetlagged to hell.
- Impossible to follow brackets that require me to have my kindle fire open just to see what is going on in other brackets.
- To many games for veiwers. I can't watch 14 hours of starcraft a day for a weekend, my girlfriend will kill me.
Hopefully a combined player ranking and seeding system won't result in the same few players being invited to basically every tournament, even more than already happens.
I'm slightly concerned we might end up with another MLG/Incontrol situation, but now applied to more tournaments, although over a shorter period of time (since there will be more tournaments on which seeding is based).
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
Double elimination is the bane of SC2 right now. To many games, to hard to plan, do difficult to broadcast. I would rather watch 50 awesome elimination games in a weekend than 250 games, some that are not broadcast. It hard to follow, brutal on the players and just leads to generic, run of the mill, substandard games.
While I agree with you that scheduling *the most important games* to appear on a stream gets dicey (because of how subjective it becomes, and you end up with some players ::coughPoltcough:: not getting much air time), as far as tournament format and fairness goes, I always thought it was pretty much established that double elimination is fine, but it's the extended series in addition to double elimination that's the central problem. The extended series seems to be the biggest controversy, and that's what a good number of people want eliminated.
Double elimination isn't used in any real sport. Why not learn from organisations that make sports entertainment for Billions of viewers? Why not a simple group stage and a single elimination tournament? Not that abomination of a tournament table like MLG, were group play standings give you an so huge advantage. Learn from FIFA world cup, the biggest sports event ever.
While sports and e-sports are very comparable in some regards, they aren't as equal in others. Even a best of three SC2 match takes about an hour. Do we really want half of the players to go home after their first match is over? The idea that they have a second life (especially if the randomized draws don't immediately fall in their favor) is reassuring to both the players and the spectators. I could definitely see players being less happy about flying halfway around the world if they have fewer chances to make it through a tournament. It certainly doesn't make the format less fair either, as long as every player has two lives (including the player who makes it to the finals through the winner's bracket). Just because a tournament format is different than FIFA's doesn't mean it's worse given a totally different scenario
That is a problem for the players, but for me, I sounds like heaven. I thinkt hat problem can be solved by have minor events like Home Story Cup and Loan Star Cup around the same time as a major event. It makes the travel money worth it, leads to more exposure for teams and takes the sting out of being elminated the first day.
I only have so much free time. I want to watch Esports, but I can't watch for an entire weekend. What is great for players may just suck for viewers.
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
Double elimination is the bane of SC2 right now. To many games, to hard to plan, do difficult to broadcast. I would rather watch 50 awesome elimination games in a weekend than 250 games, some that are not broadcast. It hard to follow, brutal on the players and just leads to generic, run of the mill, substandard games.
While I agree with you that scheduling *the most important games* to appear on a stream gets dicey (because of how subjective it becomes, and you end up with some players ::coughPoltcough:: not getting much air time), as far as tournament format and fairness goes, I always thought it was pretty much established that double elimination is fine, but it's the extended series in addition to double elimination that's the central problem. The extended series seems to be the biggest controversy, and that's what a good number of people want eliminated.
Double elimination isn't used in any real sport. Why not learn from organisations that make sports entertainment for Billions of viewers? Why not a simple group stage and a single elimination tournament? Not that abomination of a tournament table like MLG, were group play standings give you an so huge advantage. Learn from FIFA world cup, the biggest sports event ever.
While sports and e-sports are very comparable in some regards, they aren't as equal in others. Even a best of three SC2 match takes about an hour. Do we really want half of the players to go home after their first match is over? The idea that they have a second life (especially if the randomized draws don't immediately fall in their favor) is reassuring to both the players and the spectators. I could definitely see players being less happy about flying halfway around the world if they have fewer chances to make it through a tournament. It certainly doesn't make the format less fair either, as long as every player has two lives (including the player who makes it to the finals through the winner's bracket). Just because a tournament format is different than FIFA's doesn't mean it's worse given a totally different scenario
I think the key difference is that pro sports typically have a regular season - NFL plays 16 games a year and THEN has playoffs. NBA plays 82 games, has a break, and THEN playoffs. In either case, only top teams qualify anyway. You don't need the second chance bracket, because if there's an upset in the first round - well, the team has already proved that they belong there anyway. works the same way in proleague, IPTL, and NASL (GSTL should catch on to that and have a "season") whereas the weekend tournaments we have right now throw players right into a playoff structure. It's not cool.
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
Double elimination is the bane of SC2 right now. To many games, to hard to plan, do difficult to broadcast. I would rather watch 50 awesome elimination games in a weekend than 250 games, some that are not broadcast. It hard to follow, brutal on the players and just leads to generic, run of the mill, substandard games.
While I agree with you that scheduling *the most important games* to appear on a stream gets dicey (because of how subjective it becomes, and you end up with some players ::coughPoltcough:: not getting much air time), as far as tournament format and fairness goes, I always thought it was pretty much established that double elimination is fine, but it's the extended series in addition to double elimination that's the central problem. The extended series seems to be the biggest controversy, and that's what a good number of people want eliminated.
Double elmination presents a whole series of problems, most of which the viewers are not aware of. A lot of them are on the broadcast side and prevent us from seeing a lot of games. Here are a few I have seen in the last year off the top of my head:
- Inability to predict who is going to play who. Leads to players doing generic builds because they cannot prepare for everything.
- Limited ability to prepare to broadcast the next match, due to different groups moving at different speeds. Set up time for the players is also a factor.
- To many games for the players, who can't eat, sleep or even know when their match is going to take place. Naniwa vs Flash at 2 am would still be a terrible match because its 2 am and they are both jetlagged to hell.
- Impossible to follow brackets that require me to have my kindle fire open just to see what is going on in other brackets.
- To many games for veiwers. I can't watch 14 hours of starcraft a day for a weekend, my girlfriend will kill me.
Half these problems just tell me you've never had Liquipedia open during a major tournament. Just click refresh and you know where everyone is and who may play who in the future.
I think if you have an issue with "too many" games of StarCraft from a viewer perspective, then I don't really know what to say. Watch the VODs another time? Have your girlfriend watch them with you? Go close the stream and do something else and return whenever you can? You'd be watching the same number of games anyway, but those of us who can handle watching back-to-back games can enjoy the tournament during its entirety.
The big problem that you pointed out that I do agree with is the problem of scheduling and stamina for the players. And yes, that's because there are more games that need to be played in a double elimination tournament than a single elimination one. It's definitely an issue if a player has to play a ton of games back to back, or has to start really early and then his last game is very late and hasn't been told of his schedule at all. I feel like a lot of these things can be solved with better scheduling and informing and communicating between the tournament organizers and the players though. I don't believe this problem is a necessity that can't be ameliorated.
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
Double elimination is the bane of SC2 right now. To many games, to hard to plan, do difficult to broadcast. I would rather watch 50 awesome elimination games in a weekend than 250 games, some that are not broadcast. It hard to follow, brutal on the players and just leads to generic, run of the mill, substandard games.
While I agree with you that scheduling *the most important games* to appear on a stream gets dicey (because of how subjective it becomes, and you end up with some players ::coughPoltcough:: not getting much air time), as far as tournament format and fairness goes, I always thought it was pretty much established that double elimination is fine, but it's the extended series in addition to double elimination that's the central problem. The extended series seems to be the biggest controversy, and that's what a good number of people want eliminated.
Double elimination isn't used in any real sport. Why not learn from organisations that make sports entertainment for Billions of viewers? Why not a simple group stage and a single elimination tournament? Not that abomination of a tournament table like MLG, were group play standings give you an so huge advantage. Learn from FIFA world cup, the biggest sports event ever.
While sports and e-sports are very comparable in some regards, they aren't as equal in others. Even a best of three SC2 match takes about an hour. Do we really want half of the players to go home after their first match is over? The idea that they have a second life (especially if the randomized draws don't immediately fall in their favor) is reassuring to both the players and the spectators. I could definitely see players being less happy about flying halfway around the world if they have fewer chances to make it through a tournament. It certainly doesn't make the format less fair either, as long as every player has two lives (including the player who makes it to the finals through the winner's bracket). Just because a tournament format is different than FIFA's doesn't mean it's worse given a totally different scenario
Uuh he suggest group (pool) play, which usually means your always going to play 3 matches and 99% of the times you can lose at least one game (sometimes even 2). Like with Dreamhack, if your any good then your almost certain to play at least 6 matches (2 group stages) instead of the 3 matches with almost 0% chance if you have a unlucky draw, like at the last MLG.
All tho he is wrong, there are lost of sports where you have double (judo) or single (tennis) elimination structures but group/pool play followed up by single elimination is by far the most used structure in sports because yes it's more fair but not all sports are suited for group play, SC2 is tho.
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
Double elimination is the bane of SC2 right now. To many games, to hard to plan, do difficult to broadcast. I would rather watch 50 awesome elimination games in a weekend than 250 games, some that are not broadcast. It hard to follow, brutal on the players and just leads to generic, run of the mill, substandard games.
While I agree with you that scheduling *the most important games* to appear on a stream gets dicey (because of how subjective it becomes, and you end up with some players ::coughPoltcough:: not getting much air time), as far as tournament format and fairness goes, I always thought it was pretty much established that double elimination is fine, but it's the extended series in addition to double elimination that's the central problem. The extended series seems to be the biggest controversy, and that's what a good number of people want eliminated.
Double elmination presents a whole series of problems, most of which the viewers are not aware of. A lot of them are on the broadcast side and prevent us from seeing a lot of games. Here are a few I have seen in the last year off the top of my head:
- Inability to predict who is going to play who. Leads to players doing generic builds because they cannot prepare for everything.
- Limited ability to prepare to broadcast the next match, due to different groups moving at different speeds. Set up time for the players is also a factor.
- To many games for the players, who can't eat, sleep or even know when their match is going to take place. Naniwa vs Flash at 2 am would still be a terrible match because its 2 am and they are both jetlagged to hell.
- Impossible to follow brackets that require me to have my kindle fire open just to see what is going on in other brackets.
- To many games for veiwers. I can't watch 14 hours of starcraft a day for a weekend, my girlfriend will kill me.
Half these problems just tell me you've never had Liquipedia open during a major tournament. Just click refresh and you know where everyone is and who may play who in the future.
I think if you have an issue with "too many" games of StarCraft from a viewer perspective, then I don't really know what to say. Watch the VODs another time? Have your girlfriend watch them with you? Go close the stream and do something else and return whenever you can? You'd be watching the same number of games anyway, but those of us who can handle watching back-to-back games can enjoy the tournament during its entirety.
The big problem that you pointed out that I do agree with is the problem of scheduling and stamina for the players. And yes, that's because there are more games that need to be played in a double elimination tournament than a single elimination one. It's definitely an issue if a player has to play a ton of games back to back, or has to start really early and then his last game is very late and hasn't been told of his schedule at all. I feel like a lot of these things can be solved with better scheduling and informing and communicating between the tournament organizers and the players though. I don't believe this problem is a necessity that can't be ameliorated.
I just want the events to focus down, that focus on quality rather than the raw number of matches shown. I think there has been to much of a focus on getting 4-7 streams open with as many games as possible going at one time. I would rather they focus on making sure the broadcast moves smoothly, that players have time to prepare and they know what to expect. Predictable map pool, opponent pool and the ability for someone to prepare for the match in advance. I think single elimination could do a lot to make the event more predictable and managable. I could be wrong, but it works for most other sports.
On November 16 2012 01:09 imallinson wrote: This is awesome. Having a better organised tournament timetable is better for the viewers, players and organisers. The universal ranking is a cool idea and the unified competition structure is an excellent idea (hopefully no more MLG bracketception). Hopefully some of the other major tournament organisers, like IPL and IEM, can be brought into this as well because it should be better if all the major tournaments are involved.
IEM is ESL.
Anyways, I hope IGN (IPL), NASL, GOM (GSL), and OGN (OSL) will join up eventually to make it truly global.
And in parallel the player/team organizations need to develop as well: KeSPA and eSF (open to foreigner teams) so far.
I love the goal of this partnership and I congratulate all the guys who worked on it. The only thing which makes me a little sad is this "unified tournament structure". What I love in SC2 is the fact that every tournament runs with a different format. Yes, sometimes, the format is bad (extended series, single elimination BO3, etc...) but this diversity is really appreciable. So I hope the tournaments won't lost their identity through this partnership.
Intrigued to see exactly how this Universal Ranking will play out. Other than that, it's just three big event organisers finally communicating and working together to make it easier for everyone else, which should have happened already. Nice to see it happen, though.
Don't see the universal ranking being too useful with only 3 tournaments being taken into account tbh. Think about how frequent top Koreans consistently attend every DreamHack, MLG or IEM ...
On November 16 2012 01:00 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: The partnership includes, but is not limited to the following:
Universal Ranking: A universal ranking system across organizations for all major game titles directly impacting seeding and event qualification.
Master Tournament Calendar: One event calendar ensuring a minimum or no conflicts to ease players’ schedules and enables fans across the globe to easily spectate.
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Talent and Marketing Efforts: Cross promotion and support for all leagues to drive further awareness for eSports and league activities, as well as a shared roster of commentators and broadcast talent.
This is awesome stuff right here. MLG is really building their organization to last. I think the number of premier leagues will eventually be reduced, which is fine because it will be more unified and sustainable. These three will probably stick around...notice how these are also the leagues that have a more diversified list of games .
On November 16 2012 03:38 KanoCoke wrote: Hell, it's about time.
I wonder how long it'll take for them to bring in IPL + GSL, Iron Squid and the notorious NASL.
Don't hold your breath for IPL and NASL to join. MLG is positioning themselves to be sustainable. There isn't room for three premier esports leagues in the US.
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events).
MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)?
We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details.
Double elimination is the bane of SC2 right now. To many games, to hard to plan, do difficult to broadcast. I would rather watch 50 awesome elimination games in a weekend than 250 games, some that are not broadcast. It hard to follow, brutal on the players and just leads to generic, run of the mill, substandard games.
While I agree with you that scheduling *the most important games* to appear on a stream gets dicey (because of how subjective it becomes, and you end up with some players ::coughPoltcough:: not getting much air time), as far as tournament format and fairness goes, I always thought it was pretty much established that double elimination is fine, but it's the extended series in addition to double elimination that's the central problem. The extended series seems to be the biggest controversy, and that's what a good number of people want eliminated.
Double elmination presents a whole series of problems, most of which the viewers are not aware of. A lot of them are on the broadcast side and prevent us from seeing a lot of games. Here are a few I have seen in the last year off the top of my head:
- Inability to predict who is going to play who. Leads to players doing generic builds because they cannot prepare for everything.
- Limited ability to prepare to broadcast the next match, due to different groups moving at different speeds. Set up time for the players is also a factor.
- To many games for the players, who can't eat, sleep or even know when their match is going to take place. Naniwa vs Flash at 2 am would still be a terrible match because its 2 am and they are both jetlagged to hell.
- Impossible to follow brackets that require me to have my kindle fire open just to see what is going on in other brackets.
- To many games for veiwers. I can't watch 14 hours of starcraft a day for a weekend, my girlfriend will kill me.
Half these problems just tell me you've never had Liquipedia open during a major tournament. Just click refresh and you know where everyone is and who may play who in the future.
I think if you have an issue with "too many" games of StarCraft from a viewer perspective, then I don't really know what to say. Watch the VODs another time? Have your girlfriend watch them with you? Go close the stream and do something else and return whenever you can? You'd be watching the same number of games anyway, but those of us who can handle watching back-to-back games can enjoy the tournament during its entirety.
The big problem that you pointed out that I do agree with is the problem of scheduling and stamina for the players. And yes, that's because there are more games that need to be played in a double elimination tournament than a single elimination one. It's definitely an issue if a player has to play a ton of games back to back, or has to start really early and then his last game is very late and hasn't been told of his schedule at all. I feel like a lot of these things can be solved with better scheduling and informing and communicating between the tournament organizers and the players though. I don't believe this problem is a necessity that can't be ameliorated.
I just want the events to focus down, that focus on quality rather than the raw number of matches shown. I think there has been to much of a focus on getting 4-7 streams open with as many games as possible going at one time. I would rather they focus on making sure the broadcast moves smoothly, that players have time to prepare and they know what to expect. Predictable map pool, opponent pool and the ability for someone to prepare for the match in advance. I think single elimination could do a lot to make the event more predictable and managable. I could be wrong, but it works for most other sports.
Fair enough. I'm just afraid that someone will write off a tournament format that at least has the potential to be successful merely because it's different than another format that's the norm.
I guess it's better to wait for additional details. I doubt this organization will include IPL/GSL or do anything to get players their winnings faster.
On November 16 2012 03:38 KanoCoke wrote: Hell, it's about time.
I wonder how long it'll take for them to bring in IPL + GSL, Iron Squid and the notorious NASL.
Don't hold your breath for IPL and NASL to join. MLG is positioning themselves to be sustainable. There isn't room for three premier esports leagues in the US.
There certainly is room for more then just those that have already joined up. It's a matter of creating a circuit or structure that allows each organization to remain their own.. while at the same time working together to build the entire industry.
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Does this mean no more extended series? Or extended series to DH and ESL!?
No. I think this means more something in the direction of a super tournament where the champions of MLG, DH and IEM play. Or IEM winners autoqualify for MLG and vice versa etc.
We are aiming to have shared maps, tournament structure, and similar qualification across all titles.
I hope that ESL can massively step up their tournament quality, because they're nowhere near the quality of Dreamhack and MLG. Would not be happy about a organisation thriving/surviving because of connections, rather than product quality.
On November 16 2012 03:38 KanoCoke wrote: Hell, it's about time.
I wonder how long it'll take for them to bring in IPL + GSL, Iron Squid and the notorious NASL.
Don't hold your breath for IPL and NASL to join. MLG is positioning themselves to be sustainable. There isn't room for three premier esports leagues in the US.
But there's definitely room for competition.
As long as their events don't clash (which seems to be taken care of regardless of partnerships), IPL and NASL not joining in on this is a good thing.
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Does this mean no more extended series? Or extended series to DH and ESL!?
No. I think this means more something in the direction of a super tournament where the champions of MLG, DH and IEM play. Or IEM winners autoqualify for MLG and vice versa etc.
We are aiming to have shared maps, tournament structure, and similar qualification across all titles.
Are you saying halo 4 is gonna be promoted in EU?
global halo would be the shit
Nope, that's not what he's saying. This is only for the games that they have in common. MLG doesn't do Quake, DH will probably not do Halo.
I don't really find this announcement that exciting unless it means more top krs at euro events. The number of top koreans at euro events have been abysmal this year and it seems like it's harder to win code a qualifiers than it is to win a euro tournament this year. Comparing the level of competition of mlg/ipls to dh/assembly this year is like major league vs minor leagues almost.
Euro tourneys need to start paying for KR flights to stay on par with US tourneys competition wise. The next DH is their pinnacle event and I'm not excited for it one bit with that lineup.
Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
Does this mean no more extended series? Or extended series to DH and ESL!?
No. I think this means more something in the direction of a super tournament where the champions of MLG, DH and IEM play. Or IEM winners autoqualify for MLG and vice versa etc.
We are aiming to have shared maps, tournament structure, and similar qualification across all titles.
Are you saying halo 4 is gonna be promoted in EU?
global halo would be the shit
kidding aside, seeing as DH does quake and MLG does halo, I doubt they'll cross the two (although it would be interesting if I were wrong).
So if KeSPA is in a partnership with MLG, and MLG is now in a partnership with ESL and Dreamhack, does this mean we might see KeSPA players at IEM or Dreamhack?
What do you mean? I'm finding it really hard to see a downside to this, as long as the organisers retain some freedom in how they want to organise their tournaments.
This is really really cool and a great step towards improving esports. Add GOM to the list and you'll have pretty much the main esports "Team" for sc2.
On November 16 2012 04:39 Canucklehead wrote: I don't really find this announcement that exciting unless it means more top krs at euro events. The number of top koreans at euro events have been abysmal this year and it seems like it's harder to win code a qualifiers than it is to win a euro tournament this year. Comparing the level of competition of mlg/ipls to dh/assembly this year is like major league vs minor leagues almost.
Euro tourneys need to start paying for KR flights to stay on par with US tourneys competition wise. The next DH is their pinnacle event and I'm not excited for it one bit with that lineup.
Why would we want more Korean players flown out to and/or seeded into EU and NA events? One of the best event this year was WCS Europe, which had no Koreans. I don’t want special treatment for Korean players when teams are flying and players are paying their own way to EU events. If was sort of a joke that Flash was seeded into MLG groups because of a special tournament run just to make sure that Kespa players were seeded.
If you can’t afford the flight, get enough support to go to the event, you didn’t care enough to play and win. No special treatment because a player happens to be from Korea. That may seem harsh, but life is hard, get a helmet.
You guys don't see this as Sundance continuing and furthering his Cold War vs GSL/IPL? This was predicted going back to before the MLG/KeSPA partnership. Sundance basically says he doesn't recognize GSL as a legitimate organization, says he wants to put IPL out of business, then creates a partnership with KeSPA and flips off GOM again.
So now Sundance wants to create a great divide by making IEM/DH/MLG the only legitimate foreign tournament scene. It's a damn shame. IPL 5 is going to be the best foreign tournament in the world, and Sundance is scared of them.
On November 16 2012 06:06 markrevival wrote: You guys don't see this as Sundance continuing and furthering his Cold War vs GSL/IPL? This was predicted going back to before the MLG/KeSPA partnership. Sundance basically says he doesn't recognize GSL as a legitimate organization, says he wants to put IPL out of business, then creates a partnership with KeSPA and flips off GOM again.
So now Sundance wants to create a great divide by making IEM/DH/MLG the only legitimate foreign tournament scene. It's a damn shame. IPL 5 is going to be the best foreign tournament in the world, and Sundance is scared of them.
On November 16 2012 06:06 markrevival wrote: You guys don't see this as Sundance continuing and furthering his Cold War vs GSL/IPL? This was predicted going back to before the MLG/KeSPA partnership. Sundance basically says he doesn't recognize GSL as a legitimate organization, says he wants to put IPL out of business, then creates a partnership with KeSPA and flips off GOM again.
So now Sundance wants to create a great divide by making IEM/DH/MLG the only legitimate foreign tournament scene. It's a damn shame. IPL 5 is going to be the best foreign tournament in the world, and Sundance is scared of them.
Stop trying to make drama. Sundance never said anything like that about GLS and you are making shit up.
What was announced is a good thing and was likely done with the three groups that were willing to agree. Kespa is not part of this, but neither is NASL. There likely isn’t anything sinister and other leagues just found that it wouldn’t work for them. Buisnesses mostly get along and say “Thanks, but no thanks.”
wow. just a couple of weeks ago everything was so doom and gloom (even though I still think HotS is shaping up to be shit ;P). glad to see the big tournaments working together towards a better competitive scene.
On November 16 2012 06:06 markrevival wrote: You guys don't see this as Sundance continuing and furthering his Cold War vs GSL/IPL? This was predicted going back to before the MLG/KeSPA partnership. Sundance basically says he doesn't recognize GSL as a legitimate organization, says he wants to put IPL out of business, then creates a partnership with KeSPA and flips off GOM again.
So now Sundance wants to create a great divide by making IEM/DH/MLG the only legitimate foreign tournament scene. It's a damn shame. IPL 5 is going to be the best foreign tournament in the world, and Sundance is scared of them.
Lets just hope that they get the Dream Hack guys to be the on the ground organizers for MLG. They know how to put together a good tournament, even if it benefits the 'greedy' and thus 'evil' Sundance.
On November 16 2012 06:06 markrevival wrote: You guys don't see this as Sundance continuing and furthering his Cold War vs GSL/IPL? This was predicted going back to before the MLG/KeSPA partnership. Sundance basically says he doesn't recognize GSL as a legitimate organization, says he wants to put IPL out of business, then creates a partnership with KeSPA and flips off GOM again.
So now Sundance wants to create a great divide by making IEM/DH/MLG the only legitimate foreign tournament scene. It's a damn shame. IPL 5 is going to be the best foreign tournament in the world, and Sundance is scared of them.
If you look at the events that happened this year in that regard you can actually see a pattern. I don't know about Sundance not recognizing Gretech, but you have to accept, that this is no deal to improve on esports in the first place. It's a simple kapitalistic move to gain a monopole over the north american market. Just look at the partners MLG has gathered among them: Dreamhack - very localized tournament organisator in Europe KESPA - hugely localized in korea, in fact does not really care about the rest of the world ESL - hosting tournaments EVERYWHERE except North America!
This deal is made to become the only esport power in North America. And I won't believe the opposite unless MLG shows serious attemps to cooperate with IPL on equal footings. The timing of that is also pretty interesting. Of course this has to be announced before IPL presents their plans for 2013, which will likely take place at or after IPL5. Now IPL is the weird spot of how to react to this. Do they try to play along and make their schedule fit in that "global calendar" or do they try to create a opposing alliance of organisations, perhaps with ASUS ROG as european partner and Gretech in Korea? (just the be marked the bad man, splitting the SC2/esport scene in half)
From a buisness point of view you have to give a big credit to MLG. This is a clever move to pull ahead and put the competition under pressure. But from an ethnical point of view I'm pretty disappointed.
On November 16 2012 06:06 markrevival wrote: You guys don't see this as Sundance continuing and furthering his Cold War vs GSL/IPL? This was predicted going back to before the MLG/KeSPA partnership. Sundance basically says he doesn't recognize GSL as a legitimate organization, says he wants to put IPL out of business, then creates a partnership with KeSPA and flips off GOM again.
So now Sundance wants to create a great divide by making IEM/DH/MLG the only legitimate foreign tournament scene. It's a damn shame. IPL 5 is going to be the best foreign tournament in the world, and Sundance is scared of them.
If you look at the events that happened this year in that regard you can actually see a pattern. I don't know about Sundance not recognizing Gretech, but you have to accept, that this is no deal to improve on esports in the first place. It's a simple kapitalistic move to gain a monopole over the north american market. Just look at the partners MLG has gathered among them: Dreamhack - very localized tournament organisator in Europe KESPA - hugely localized in korea, in fact does not really care about the rest of the world ESL - hosting tournaments EVERYWHERE except North America!
This deal is made to become the only esport power in North America. And I won't believe the opposite unless MLG shows serious attemps to cooperate with IPL on equal footings. The timing of that is also pretty interesting. Of course this has to be announced before IPL presents their plans for 2013, which will likely take place at or after IPL5. Now IPL is the weird spot of how to react to this. Do they try to play along and make their schedule fit in that "global calendar" or do they try to create a opposing alliance of organisations, perhaps with ASUS ROG as european partner and Gretech in Korea? (just the be marked the bad man, splitting the SC2/esport scene in half)
From a buisness point of view you have to give a big credit to MLG. This is a clever move to pull ahead and put the competition under pressure. But from an ethnical point of view I'm pretty disappointed.
Personally I think GOM and IPL are a partnership no one else can beat. Hosting GSL events like GSL/GSTL finals at IPL events will make them the best events around, unless MLG hosts a PL or OSL finals It's not going to compete. ( and this probably will never happen because Kespa's main market is Korea, while GSL's is more about the paying foreigner audience )
- this is all my opinion, of course. Some people might enjoy different things.
I don't think they need to change a thing or go along with anything any of the other organizations do. IPL5 is going to be the best event this year because they are able to bring in GOM to do production and host GSL ro4 + finals and the awesome GSL world championship show matches.
I actually expect ASUS ROG to join in on this. They only have two major events every year and they already play pretty much in the same system as Dreamhack.
So I outlined this a few months ago.. but its very possible to have multiple games on the circuit/association that do not have to be featured at every tournament.
For example..
Lets assume MLG, DH and IEM/ESL all agree to the following games at each of their tournaments:
SC2 CS:GO DOTA2 (I chose this because we are still unsure of where RIOT stands with working with orgs)
So lets say there are 11 Events that the 3 orgs decide are part of a circuit (sanctioned Association events)
All 11 of them have the 3 major circuit games included... but there are options for additional featured games.
MLG and IEM include Black Ops 2 (8 of the 11 events) DH and IEM include Quake Live (7 of the 11 events)
You get the idea. Anyway, the association decides on a total of 5 games that are part of the circuit... but not every event has to feature the game. As long as the game is included in x number of events, it can be sanctioned for rankings.
If using a proper rankings system (as I mentioned before... regarding my GPS Ranking system)... then those games can still be viable and included in a 'World Championships' in which all 3 organizations work together, pull in sponsors for the circuit only to support the Finals.. so on.. and BOOM.. you have a circuit that includes more then just 3 games that all 3 must agree on.
The 'Association' works together to bring in sponsors that support only the Circuit. Imagine the buying power that 3 orgs working together have as opposed to a single org. So like NASCAR.. which has a specific sponsor for the Circuit.. the orgs are still allowed to have their own event sponsors. Imagine this sponsor signing a 3 year contract for the circuit. After each year, the Association evaluates the games that were included, works together to bring more to the circuit in terms of sponsors and stability... and again.. we are moving forward to a very sustainable and structured model for esports.
On November 16 2012 06:06 markrevival wrote: You guys don't see this as Sundance continuing and furthering his Cold War vs GSL/IPL? This was predicted going back to before the MLG/KeSPA partnership. Sundance basically says he doesn't recognize GSL as a legitimate organization, says he wants to put IPL out of business, then creates a partnership with KeSPA and flips off GOM again.
So now Sundance wants to create a great divide by making IEM/DH/MLG the only legitimate foreign tournament scene. It's a damn shame. IPL 5 is going to be the best foreign tournament in the world, and Sundance is scared of them.
You can't say that with 100% certainty, IPL Team League finals were a horribly produced, rushed production. Hopefully GOM will carry them.
On November 16 2012 06:06 markrevival wrote: You guys don't see this as Sundance continuing and furthering his Cold War vs GSL/IPL? This was predicted going back to before the MLG/KeSPA partnership. Sundance basically says he doesn't recognize GSL as a legitimate organization, says he wants to put IPL out of business, then creates a partnership with KeSPA and flips off GOM again.
So now Sundance wants to create a great divide by making IEM/DH/MLG the only legitimate foreign tournament scene. It's a damn shame. IPL 5 is going to be the best foreign tournament in the world, and Sundance is scared of them.
You can't say that with 100% certainty, IPL Team League finals were a horribly produced, rushed production. Hopefully GOM will carry them.
GOM is sending 70~ employees to do the production, it has about the same chance to fail as a GSL final.
Nice move. I'm sad at the exclusion/non-participation of NASL, IPL, and GSL though. (I use both descriptors because we don't know if they were invited and declined or if they were simply not considered by the others. Maybe Hellspawn will spill some beans on the next GD Show.)
Then again, IPL and NASL (and to a lessor extent, GSL) generally have more consistent content - they stream a lot of content, and have a lot fewer "live" events scattered in the year. NASL especially have really upped their production game over the year, and I think they have a lot more variety among their sponsors.
Still, could be a good step. I'll wait and see - I'm still waiting for Sundance to really articulate the "vision" he shared at MLG Orlando.
On November 16 2012 09:07 Shinespark wrote: Kespa will never partner up with anyone, ever. Stop dreaming about it, Kespa will be dead before LotV anyway.
They're already in a partnership with MLG. Try again?
wow, big news! i was already quite happy with the production values of each entity on their own, and i now look forward to any improvements that this partnership may bring about
On November 16 2012 06:06 markrevival wrote: You guys don't see this as Sundance continuing and furthering his Cold War vs GSL/IPL? This was predicted going back to before the MLG/KeSPA partnership. Sundance basically says he doesn't recognize GSL as a legitimate organization, says he wants to put IPL out of business, then creates a partnership with KeSPA and flips off GOM again.
So now Sundance wants to create a great divide by making IEM/DH/MLG the only legitimate foreign tournament scene. It's a damn shame. IPL 5 is going to be the best foreign tournament in the world, and Sundance is scared of them.
You can't say that with 100% certainty, IPL Team League finals were a horribly produced, rushed production. Hopefully GOM will carry them.
GOM is sending 70~ employees to do the production, it has about the same chance to fail as a GSL final.
they did that for IPL 4 and it was rather lackluster.
On November 16 2012 06:06 markrevival wrote: You guys don't see this as Sundance continuing and furthering his Cold War vs GSL/IPL? This was predicted going back to before the MLG/KeSPA partnership. Sundance basically says he doesn't recognize GSL as a legitimate organization, says he wants to put IPL out of business, then creates a partnership with KeSPA and flips off GOM again.
So now Sundance wants to create a great divide by making IEM/DH/MLG the only legitimate foreign tournament scene. It's a damn shame. IPL 5 is going to be the best foreign tournament in the world, and Sundance is scared of them.
You can't say that with 100% certainty, IPL Team League finals were a horribly produced, rushed production. Hopefully GOM will carry them.
GOM is sending 70~ employees to do the production, it has about the same chance to fail as a GSL final.
they did that for IPL 4 and it was rather lackluster.
I'm pretty sure for IPL4 they only did the GSTL finals, which is why the production for that was better than the rest of the event.
Of course there was the regame,but that was the computer/internet, not the production.
On November 16 2012 06:06 markrevival wrote: You guys don't see this as Sundance continuing and furthering his Cold War vs GSL/IPL? This was predicted going back to before the MLG/KeSPA partnership. Sundance basically says he doesn't recognize GSL as a legitimate organization, says he wants to put IPL out of business, then creates a partnership with KeSPA and flips off GOM again.
So now Sundance wants to create a great divide by making IEM/DH/MLG the only legitimate foreign tournament scene. It's a damn shame. IPL 5 is going to be the best foreign tournament in the world, and Sundance is scared of them.
You can't say that with 100% certainty, IPL Team League finals were a horribly produced, rushed production. Hopefully GOM will carry them.
GOM is sending 70~ employees to do the production, it has about the same chance to fail as a GSL final.
they did that for IPL 4 and it was rather lackluster.
Actually they only did the GSTL finals and you instantly saw the difference. mic problems for 10min straight compared to 5seconds.
Pretty dam awesome news for eSports in general since more than just SC2 gets played at those events.
But in relation to SC2 the topic didn't mention anything about the Korean Leagues or players, so hopefully GOM signs up too in the near future
Edit: IPL and NASL are not played in front of a live crowd, maybe that has something to do with their being no mention of them but they are big enough leagues to be considered for this too i should think.
For upon this world of e-sports shall we incorporate the strongest known corporations into our fold. Then shall we be the greatest of creation's children. We shall be... Perfect...
3 tournament hosts with a focus on live events (compared to gsl, nasl and ipl, which are all putting much more emphasis on steady offline-/studio-content) with mostly non-overlapping markets decide to join their organizational and promotional powers - awesome! was about time...
I was just thinking about universal rankings a few days ago. (when i was showering just like Major :D) in tennis, it is always exciting to see the 1st seed take on the 2nd. Same for soccer and other sports. However in starcraft, nobody knows who is the Number one player is.
I personally felt that the Blizzard should have a ranking which they can choose how to give ranking points to players. It is also even better if they held a Tournement at the end of the year and invite the top 16 or top 32 players ETC to compete to prove their ranking is not only for show.
Seems like realy good news that they are working in sync!!! Means better scheduling meaning more tournaments seperated with players being able to go to all hopefully!!!
I think this is great. Just when people are starting to get antsy that SC2 is dying, these major organizations decide to reinvest in the game (and e-sports generally, of course). Big things happen when these kinds of amalgamations happen that are much larger than the sum of their parts. Look at every single major sports league in the US--they all came about through combinations of smaller ones.
Hope they do one giant tournament at the end of the year to celebrate all 3 companies coming together with a super huge prize pool. Something so big it makes E sports waves
On November 17 2012 00:50 NiRvAnA22 wrote: Hope they do one giant tournament at the end of the year to celebrate all 3 companies coming together with a super huge prize pool. Something so big it makes E sports waves
This would be awesome! It would make sense since they'r making a combined ranking.
Great to see these organizations coming together to form a single 'league' of sorts. Obviously still separate entities, but coming up with a common ranking, competitive format, and schedule will do worlds to fix a lot of issues that everyone runs into.
Obviously with other groups not involved there will still be some conflicts, but at least this is a step in the right direction.
On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote: Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV...
No PPV
Nice! (dont' get me wrong, nothing is for free, but maybe Blizzard could give a bit back to the community, seeing what money they make from games such as WoW)
This is a huge step for eSports... KeSpa already has partnership with MLG so thats why it isnt included but you will not see a partnership with GOM or IPL because IPL and GOM are their own partnership... which sucks for IPL and GOM because the name recognition of MLG and DreamHack is so much larger than that of IPL or GOM.. Since IPL and MLG are competitors I wouldnt plan on seeing a partnership anytime soon even though I can see it being phenomenal... Tighter community means that there is high production value all across the board in every tournament... I think KeSpa would take to school any other organization when it comes to production value... KeSpa nails it..
More importantly I would love to see a partnership between GOM and Kespa where we could start seeing team leagues and such with sc2 and BW teams
actually i think the "partnership" will end in giving seeds to players who are doing in the other events good, so maybe all events could now include too many koreans in high seeded positions, which isn´t so fun to watch as someone who cares a lot about for example the european scene and likes to watch also some european games and the not Mlg typical everyone get stomped by the 100 korean style of tourneys.
Fantastic to see, a unified ranking that's accepted by players and organisers is exactly the kind of thing you'd want at this point.Consolidate and move forward from there.
Now get a cooperation with Iron Squid and please make 5 Grand Slams every year : 2 in the USA Stockholm Paris Seoul. And Masters opens for the rest of the year !
This is awesome, especially after seeing how well DH did recently, it was amazing, hopefully the others can learn something from that, and hopefully all the tournaments can learn something from each other.
I have my positive hat on today, so I will take this as very good news. I imagine there are lots of opportunities in such a partnership. The fans will get a more cohesive esports season in the foreign scene. We'll get a better idea of who is actually the best. Players may be able to better coordinate travel and accomodation. And maybe the tournament organisers will be able to pool their worker resources better so that you can in general have more experienced staff at all the tournaments.
I hope this doesn't cause a total monopoly on non-Korean tournaments that attract Koreans. It will be nice to not have [large]tournaments overlap though.
On November 20 2012 08:46 Elitios wrote: Great news! I hope the championship season will become even more exciting . Will IPL join the group at some point?
IPL has a relationship with GOM already, there is some talk of MLG and KeSPA joining forces. I would guess not.
On November 20 2012 08:46 Elitios wrote: Great news! I hope the championship season will become even more exciting . Will IPL join the group at some point?
IPL has a relationship with GOM already, there is some talk of MLG and KeSPA joining forces. I would guess not.
It's not talk. Mlg and kespa started a partnership months ago
This is a classic example of how companies consolidate in the face of market contraction.
Look no further than the book publishing industry currently as an example.
Or even the envelope industry in the early 1900's.
It is marketed to us as a good thing. Yes, there will be perks but there is a disappointing underlying cause which we are not told about for fear of further market decline.
I feel like this interview should be included within this thread because it answers many questions/topics being dicussed here. The DH/ESL/MLG cooperation things starts with the 3rd or 4th question. Carmac interview
EPT
really like this because somthing like this november full of tours will not happen again!
What do you mean?
