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On October 23 2012 07:11 numcapscr wrote:
what I got out of this, Jessica has no idea what's she's doing nor does she have any idea as what to do in the kitchen as well. but the Slayers players noticed something wrong and no change. Plus Boxer is stuck with her and he might ever see the light of day as well.
There it is! I knew it'd come eventually...
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On October 23 2012 07:07 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 07:04 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:02 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:00 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:59 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:53 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:40 TrickyGilligan wrote:On October 23 2012 06:35 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:32 BRaegO wrote:
[quote]
And "someone like you would do" isn't categorizing? Apparently you aren't one of the kids that are learning something new everyday.(psst categorizing... do you see it.. one of those kids)... look: I said that there were a lot of people saying: "MMA said different, so that proves Jessica is a bitch." than you come out, right after, and say, basically: "MMA says different, so that proves Jessica is a manipulative bitch." so I lol'd at the irony and pointed it out, and then you got mad. well, I'm gonna give you a reason to be really mad, because I'm about to really categorize you: people like you, who jump to conclusions based on nothing, are the problem. not Jessica, not MMA. You and all your ilk. have a nice day. There have been literally hundreds of pages of drama surrounding this. We're way past the point of "jumping to conclusions based on nothing." This is TL though, so I guess we need 3 different peer-reviewed sources before we can make a decision about anything. jumping to conclusions based on the biased statement of one side is pretty much jumping to conclusions based on nothing. especially when this thread has become, basically, a discussion about Boxer and Jessica's love-life between people who have almost all: 1) never met either of them, and 2) don't even speak the same language as them... anyone saying that Jessica is just a manipulative bitch is, in my opinion, jumping to conclusions. I would have agreed, if it wasn't for the fact that she has a recorded phone call. That alone shifted my view of "having the best intentions, but not the most competent" to "malicious". it's pretty common to record telephone calls if you are worried that the content of the call might be relevant later in some controversy. I'm not saying that Jessica did nothing wrong, but just her recording a call is not enough to suddenly label her as maliciously trying to hurt people. it is assumptions like this that seem to have caused the whole controversy in the first place... Actually, I don't think she can do that. It's definitely not common. well, it is perfectly legal. and it is very, very common in the world of business to save emails, record phone-calls, etc. if you feel that a controversy may arise which concerns the content of those communications. Saving e-mails, yes. Recording I believe you need to have the other person's consent. I know of a case where it was thrown out of court because it wasn't. Korean law is all that matters here, so any anecdotal evidence to the contrary from another country is irrelevant. I am not aware of Korean law on the matter, but am almost positive that Jessica is not doing anything illegal here. besides, we aren't talking about court cases, but a private dispute between two private individuals. User was warned for this post
Let me recap it, so I get it right: 1. You say only korean law is relevant. 2. You say you don't know anything about it. 3. You say you are sure she did nothing wrong. --- leaves me puzzled. I would like to live in your world for a day, just for the experience.
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Can anyone translate Cella's twitter? hes writing a novel on there and google translate sucks.. it seems like he's talking about these articles
https://twitter.com/SlayersCella
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On October 23 2012 07:06 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 07:05 CuteZergling wrote:
Is Jessica particularly well liked in Korea? I know she has fame and being with Boxer raises her reputation, but do they see what we see? I don't think so. From what I heard people in Korea are shitting on eSF as if it is solely their fault.
Well, that part is solely their fault.
However, I imagine that much of the sympathy she gets is due to relationship with Boxer and her using the "Boxer card" in these accusations. If she says that Boxer quit gaming because of Player A, that he's called players "cancer", and so on, her word on it is going to stand as long as Boxer himself doesn't say anything to point to the contrary.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Frickin Starcraft soaps going on!
Now I have feels for MMA, damn it, I don't know who has done what now...
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On October 23 2012 07:11 enzym wrote:
MMA doesn't come off looking good after this. We already saw Jessica's personality - that she's rather confrontational and doesn't give in easily, and also makes things bigger than they need to be. None of these things are necessarily bad, except for the last one, and the general trickiness such personality brings to the management of public relations.
But what we didn't know before is that MMA is effectively the same... no trust in his managers, unable bring up and resolve issues through open discussion, taking everything personally and affecting the people around him negatively, and also, even now, dishing out accusations and blaming others, instead of explaining what exactly was actually going on and taking some responsibility. Going so far as to throw BoxeR under the bus? Not cool... not cool.
All of this makes me very sad. Jessica's naivity when it comes to the management of the team, the incompatibilities her personality brings, the irresponsibility of everyone involved (except for BoxeR).
How could anyone in good faith express interest in working with either of such individuals?
Hey I don't want to start arguments when neither of us know for sure, but how is Boxer the angel in all of this? It's the team he started, and his girlfriend managed and a bunch of kids who may or may not be clueless or disruptive. How is he magically innocent just because he's Boxer?
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On October 23 2012 07:12 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 07:07 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:04 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:02 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:00 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:59 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:53 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:40 TrickyGilligan wrote:On October 23 2012 06:35 sc2superfan101 wrote:
[quote]
look:
I said that there were a lot of people saying: "MMA said different, so that proves Jessica is a bitch."
than you come out, right after, and say, basically: "MMA says different, so that proves Jessica is a manipulative bitch."
so I lol'd at the irony and pointed it out, and then you got mad. well, I'm gonna give you a reason to be really mad, because I'm about to really categorize you:
people like you, who jump to conclusions based on nothing, are the problem. not Jessica, not MMA. You and all your ilk. have a nice day. There have been literally hundreds of pages of drama surrounding this. We're way past the point of "jumping to conclusions based on nothing." This is TL though, so I guess we need 3 different peer-reviewed sources before we can make a decision about anything. jumping to conclusions based on the biased statement of one side is pretty much jumping to conclusions based on nothing. especially when this thread has become, basically, a discussion about Boxer and Jessica's love-life between people who have almost all: 1) never met either of them, and 2) don't even speak the same language as them... anyone saying that Jessica is just a manipulative bitch is, in my opinion, jumping to conclusions. I would have agreed, if it wasn't for the fact that she has a recorded phone call. That alone shifted my view of "having the best intentions, but not the most competent" to "malicious". it's pretty common to record telephone calls if you are worried that the content of the call might be relevant later in some controversy. I'm not saying that Jessica did nothing wrong, but just her recording a call is not enough to suddenly label her as maliciously trying to hurt people. it is assumptions like this that seem to have caused the whole controversy in the first place... Actually, I don't think she can do that. It's definitely not common. well, it is perfectly legal. and it is very, very common in the world of business to save emails, record phone-calls, etc. if you feel that a controversy may arise which concerns the content of those communications. Saving e-mails, yes. Recording I believe you need to have the other person's consent. I know of a case where it was thrown out of court because it wasn't. Korean law is all that matters here, so any anecdotal evidence to the contrary from another country is irrelevant. I am not aware of Korean law on the matter, but am almost positive that Jessica is not doing anything illegal here. besides, we aren't talking about court cases, but a private dispute between two private individuals. User was warned for this post Let me recap it, so I get it right: 1. You say only korean law is relevant. 2. You say you don't know anything about it. 3. You say you are sure she did nothing wrong. --- leaves me puzzled. I would like to live in your world for a day, just for the experience.
only Korean law is relevant, because we are discussing Korean law. I am not entirely aware of the specific laws in this case, but am pretty sure, since no one from the area is calling for her to be arrested or trying to pursue this legally, that she is not doing anything illegal.
pretty simple, dude...
edit: and who knew?!? I was right!!!
South Korean courts routinely accept recordings, or transcripts of recordings, as admissible evidence in both civil and criminal proceedings. The Supreme Court ruled in October 2002 that it is not illegal for a party to a phone call to record the phone conversation secretly without the other party's knowledge, although the recording of a phone conversation by a third party without the consent of both parties to the phone call is illegal.
https://www.privacyinternational.org/reports/south-korea/ii-surveillance-policy
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On October 23 2012 07:10 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 07:05 CuteZergling wrote:
Is Jessica particularly well liked in Korea? I know she has fame and being with Boxer raises her reputation, but do they see what we see? I think she once threatened to sue some people that were trolling her on the web. And this was before we saw big shitstorms about her behaviour as a representative/drama-magnet of SlayerS. I would REALLY like to see a Korean netizen reaction thread on the SlayerS issues, I mean taking comments from places like PlayXP, Fomos, Afreeca etc.
Some Korean had posted reactions (can't remember where), but I has already seen him making very (like, to an irrational degree) pro-Jessica posts so they didn't seem like they were likely a fair representation.
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I think it is good to have players' story about this drama, it completes the information we didn't have until now, this has been interesting to read.
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On October 23 2012 07:12 caydus wrote:Can anyone translate Cella's twitter? hes writing a novel on there and google translate sucks.. it seems like he's talking about these articles https://twitter.com/SlayersCella
Already deleted?
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On October 23 2012 07:14 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 07:06 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:05 CuteZergling wrote:
Is Jessica particularly well liked in Korea? I know she has fame and being with Boxer raises her reputation, but do they see what we see? I don't think so. From what I heard people in Korea are shitting on eSF as if it is solely their fault. Well, that part is solely their fault. However, I imagine that much of the sympathy she gets is due to relationship with Boxer and her using the "Boxer card" in these accusations. If she says that Boxer quit gaming because of Player A, that he's called players "cancer", and so on, her word on it is going to stand as long as Boxer himself doesn't say anything to point to the contrary.
Nah. If she's Steve Jobs, she would have got a negotiation done anyways. Jokes aside, your statement on the Boxer card is nail on.
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from the start i wanted to believe jessica was being crazy but esf's chair resigning and more or less vindicating her story. something something actions speak louder than words, and its just words that people can go on regarding these crank/mma interviews.
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On October 23 2012 07:07 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 07:04 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:02 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:00 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:59 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:53 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:40 TrickyGilligan wrote:On October 23 2012 06:35 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:32 BRaegO wrote:
[quote]
And "someone like you would do" isn't categorizing? Apparently you aren't one of the kids that are learning something new everyday.(psst categorizing... do you see it.. one of those kids)... look: I said that there were a lot of people saying: "MMA said different, so that proves Jessica is a bitch." than you come out, right after, and say, basically: "MMA says different, so that proves Jessica is a manipulative bitch." so I lol'd at the irony and pointed it out, and then you got mad. well, I'm gonna give you a reason to be really mad, because I'm about to really categorize you: people like you, who jump to conclusions based on nothing, are the problem. not Jessica, not MMA. You and all your ilk. have a nice day. There have been literally hundreds of pages of drama surrounding this. We're way past the point of "jumping to conclusions based on nothing." This is TL though, so I guess we need 3 different peer-reviewed sources before we can make a decision about anything. jumping to conclusions based on the biased statement of one side is pretty much jumping to conclusions based on nothing. especially when this thread has become, basically, a discussion about Boxer and Jessica's love-life between people who have almost all: 1) never met either of them, and 2) don't even speak the same language as them... anyone saying that Jessica is just a manipulative bitch is, in my opinion, jumping to conclusions. I would have agreed, if it wasn't for the fact that she has a recorded phone call. That alone shifted my view of "having the best intentions, but not the most competent" to "malicious". it's pretty common to record telephone calls if you are worried that the content of the call might be relevant later in some controversy. I'm not saying that Jessica did nothing wrong, but just her recording a call is not enough to suddenly label her as maliciously trying to hurt people. it is assumptions like this that seem to have caused the whole controversy in the first place... Actually, I don't think she can do that. It's definitely not common. well, it is perfectly legal. and it is very, very common in the world of business to save emails, record phone-calls, etc. if you feel that a controversy may arise which concerns the content of those communications. Saving e-mails, yes. Recording I believe you need to have the other person's consent. I know of a case where it was thrown out of court because it wasn't. Korean law is all that matters here, so any anecdotal evidence to the contrary from another country is irrelevant. I am not aware of Korean law on the matter, but am almost positive that Jessica is not doing anything illegal here. besides, we aren't talking about court cases, but a private dispute between two private individuals. User was warned for this post
Why was he warned? I can confirm that in South Korea it's legal to privately record a phonecall without asking the other party for consent. As long as you're one of the parties involved. This is legal in most countries I may add.
It's illegal for a third party to record a phonecall between two other parties.
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On October 23 2012 07:14 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 07:12 grs wrote:On October 23 2012 07:07 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:04 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:02 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:00 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:59 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:53 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:40 TrickyGilligan wrote:
[quote]
There have been literally hundreds of pages of drama surrounding this. We're way past the point of "jumping to conclusions based on nothing."
This is TL though, so I guess we need 3 different peer-reviewed sources before we can make a decision about anything. jumping to conclusions based on the biased statement of one side is pretty much jumping to conclusions based on nothing. especially when this thread has become, basically, a discussion about Boxer and Jessica's love-life between people who have almost all: 1) never met either of them, and 2) don't even speak the same language as them... anyone saying that Jessica is just a manipulative bitch is, in my opinion, jumping to conclusions. I would have agreed, if it wasn't for the fact that she has a recorded phone call. That alone shifted my view of "having the best intentions, but not the most competent" to "malicious". it's pretty common to record telephone calls if you are worried that the content of the call might be relevant later in some controversy. I'm not saying that Jessica did nothing wrong, but just her recording a call is not enough to suddenly label her as maliciously trying to hurt people. it is assumptions like this that seem to have caused the whole controversy in the first place... Actually, I don't think she can do that. It's definitely not common. well, it is perfectly legal. and it is very, very common in the world of business to save emails, record phone-calls, etc. if you feel that a controversy may arise which concerns the content of those communications. Saving e-mails, yes. Recording I believe you need to have the other person's consent. I know of a case where it was thrown out of court because it wasn't. Korean law is all that matters here, so any anecdotal evidence to the contrary from another country is irrelevant. I am not aware of Korean law on the matter, but am almost positive that Jessica is not doing anything illegal here. besides, we aren't talking about court cases, but a private dispute between two private individuals. User was warned for this post Let me recap it, so I get it right: 1. You say only korean law is relevant. 2. You say you don't know anything about it. 3. You say you are sure she did nothing wrong. --- leaves me puzzled. I would like to live in your world for a day, just for the experience. only Korean law is relevant, because we are discussing Korean law. I am not entirely aware of the specific laws in this case, but am pretty sure, since no one from the area is calling for her to be arrested or trying to pursue this legally, that she is not doing anything illegal. pretty simple, dude...
You have no idea about Korean law. And you base your assumption on the fact that no one (that you have heard of in this article) is trying to take legal action. Just retract your statement or amend it to "I am not really sure, but I would be surprised if this were illegal in Korea - it certainly isn't here". Because while you dismiss the german poster for giving his imput about his country you have no better knowledge yourself.
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The impression I'm left in all this is that people went in with the best intentions but lacked the experience and skills to manage the team and finances. Its a shame that things fell apart because of how much of an icon Boxer is and the significance of having Slayers as a team in SC2.
In all this we're still missing a lot of info. The whole thing with Manager J is just too weird. Everyone was friends and loved him. Then unclear drama happened. Then he became a pariah and MMA was labeled a cancer on the team. My GF also wants to know what "flabergasted" is in Korean.
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I am the only one that does get any sense out of the interviews? It kinda seems so, given that so many people draw so many conlcusions from them. Or is this forum full of fluent Korean speakers who can read the originals and they miraculously make sense? I really do not have a remote clue how do these people think and why do they act as they do. Some of the earlier stories from the "behind SC2 in Korea" area seemed like a bad soap opera, but this is completely outlandish. I read most of the paragraphs twice and still ended up thinking just "WHAT"?
Don't get me wrong, I am not blaming the translators, they probably did the best job possible, but if this is really how people interact with each other in a Korean team then the cultural bareer is much, much higher than I have ever imagined and I can't see anyone who hasn't spent a year in that society to even remotely understand what is going on. I think TL should now face the reality of incomprehensibility of Korea and go back to just watching the games. Because those make sense at least some of the time ....
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On October 23 2012 07:17 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 07:14 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:12 grs wrote:On October 23 2012 07:07 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:04 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:02 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:00 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:59 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:53 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:
[quote]
jumping to conclusions based on the biased statement of one side is pretty much jumping to conclusions based on nothing. especially when this thread has become, basically, a discussion about Boxer and Jessica's love-life between people who have almost all: 1) never met either of them, and 2) don't even speak the same language as them...
anyone saying that Jessica is just a manipulative bitch is, in my opinion, jumping to conclusions. I would have agreed, if it wasn't for the fact that she has a recorded phone call. That alone shifted my view of "having the best intentions, but not the most competent" to "malicious". it's pretty common to record telephone calls if you are worried that the content of the call might be relevant later in some controversy. I'm not saying that Jessica did nothing wrong, but just her recording a call is not enough to suddenly label her as maliciously trying to hurt people. it is assumptions like this that seem to have caused the whole controversy in the first place... Actually, I don't think she can do that. It's definitely not common. well, it is perfectly legal. and it is very, very common in the world of business to save emails, record phone-calls, etc. if you feel that a controversy may arise which concerns the content of those communications. Saving e-mails, yes. Recording I believe you need to have the other person's consent. I know of a case where it was thrown out of court because it wasn't. Korean law is all that matters here, so any anecdotal evidence to the contrary from another country is irrelevant. I am not aware of Korean law on the matter, but am almost positive that Jessica is not doing anything illegal here. besides, we aren't talking about court cases, but a private dispute between two private individuals. User was warned for this post Let me recap it, so I get it right: 1. You say only korean law is relevant. 2. You say you don't know anything about it. 3. You say you are sure she did nothing wrong. --- leaves me puzzled. I would like to live in your world for a day, just for the experience. only Korean law is relevant, because we are discussing Korean law. I am not entirely aware of the specific laws in this case, but am pretty sure, since no one from the area is calling for her to be arrested or trying to pursue this legally, that she is not doing anything illegal. pretty simple, dude... You have no idea about Korean law. And you base your assumption on the fact that no one (that you have heard of in this article) is trying to take legal action. Just retract your statement or amend it to "I am not really sure, but I would be surprised if this were illegal in Korea - it certainly isn't here". Because while you dismiss the german poster for giving his imput about his country you have no better knowledge yourself.
I dismissed his anecdotal evidence concerning a court case in Germany as relevant to a legal fact in Korea.
and I was right.... so.... I don't know what you're talking about.
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On October 23 2012 07:18 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 07:17 Subversive wrote:On October 23 2012 07:14 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:12 grs wrote:On October 23 2012 07:07 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:04 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:02 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 07:00 achan1058 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:59 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 23 2012 06:53 achan1058 wrote:
[quote]
I would have agreed, if it wasn't for the fact that she has a recorded phone call. That alone shifted my view of "having the best intentions, but not the most competent" to "malicious". it's pretty common to record telephone calls if you are worried that the content of the call might be relevant later in some controversy. I'm not saying that Jessica did nothing wrong, but just her recording a call is not enough to suddenly label her as maliciously trying to hurt people. it is assumptions like this that seem to have caused the whole controversy in the first place... Actually, I don't think she can do that. It's definitely not common. well, it is perfectly legal. and it is very, very common in the world of business to save emails, record phone-calls, etc. if you feel that a controversy may arise which concerns the content of those communications. Saving e-mails, yes. Recording I believe you need to have the other person's consent. I know of a case where it was thrown out of court because it wasn't. Korean law is all that matters here, so any anecdotal evidence to the contrary from another country is irrelevant. I am not aware of Korean law on the matter, but am almost positive that Jessica is not doing anything illegal here. besides, we aren't talking about court cases, but a private dispute between two private individuals. User was warned for this post Let me recap it, so I get it right: 1. You say only korean law is relevant. 2. You say you don't know anything about it. 3. You say you are sure she did nothing wrong. --- leaves me puzzled. I would like to live in your world for a day, just for the experience. only Korean law is relevant, because we are discussing Korean law. I am not entirely aware of the specific laws in this case, but am pretty sure, since no one from the area is calling for her to be arrested or trying to pursue this legally, that she is not doing anything illegal. pretty simple, dude... You have no idea about Korean law. And you base your assumption on the fact that no one (that you have heard of in this article) is trying to take legal action. Just retract your statement or amend it to "I am not really sure, but I would be surprised if this were illegal in Korea - it certainly isn't here". Because while you dismiss the german poster for giving his imput about his country you have no better knowledge yourself. I dismissed his anecdotal evidence concerning a court case in Germany as relevant to a legal fact in Korea. and I was right.... so.... I don't know what you're talking about.
You dismissed it with no better information. That's why everyone called you on it.
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EPT
