On October 18 2012 15:43 ReachTheSky wrote: I wish people that aren't organizers/volunteers/companies would stop worrying about the growth and stability of other people's businesses. We don't work for them. Its their situation to deal with.
I think the concern is that if business isn't growing in Starcraft the money and sponsorship that's currently directed at Starcraft might be shifted out of the scene to bigger and better places. Obviously I'm biased but a lot of people see the success of LoL's season 2 event that just happened and can't help but feel their scene is bigger and more attractive to sponsors and players than SC's own scene.
If it's their situation to deal with (as you've said) and "they" decide that Starcraft isn't the next big thing to put money into, what happens then?
Then they decide to put money elsewhere obviously. It's their money, they can decide what to do with it.
Listen naysayers/children. Sc2's piece of the e-sports pie will fizzle out. I watch GSL exclusively, because, in my opinion( if this is actually an opinion) the players are the best. Since the players are the best, that specific tournament can therefore be regarded as "THE SC2". What then is the purpose of MLG, DreamHack, IEM, blah, blah blah etc etc etc?
Do you see another NFL in America? Is there another derivative of basketball in the United States? Would you not be completely overwhelmed by having fourteen football games to watch in one day because eight different leagues are begging for your attention. Furthermore, if this were the case which one matters? No answer to that. It would just be a football ( substitute football for any other major professional sporting league ) orgy, day in day out with no real climaxes, and no real finales. Your brain wouldn't be able to anticipate, or care because it is still being raped by the residual sensory input from the day before ( which you only just finished viewing in the wee mornings of the next day).
This scene is so unbelievably over saturated it makes me want to scream. There needs to be a consolidation. I want to watch the best of the best of the best play one another. And I want a season to have meaning. AND I DO NOT WANT to find myself asking a fellow starfan "HEY!! Did you catch the finals last night?!!!" only to have the poor schmuck reply with " which one?" IF THIS HAS TO BE ASKED, NEITHER MATTER. At the moment it boils down to people following specific players, and whichever tournament said player is in, well thats THE TOURNAMENT THAT MATTERS BRO. Or...hey, look! So in So is casting this tournament! Well shit man, lemme shell out twenty bucks only so I can hear their godlike voice. How about those couches at Dreamhack that were so innovating, Leonardo Da'Vinci pulled himself from his grave and furiously masturbated?! How about the pitifulness of SC2 having to share space with games that, let's be honest require half the mental stamina and even less skill.
For this INDUSTRY to grow we need the folks who do not play this shit. We do not need to keep appealing to thirteen year olds who have all fucking day to monitor bullshit tournaments while simultaneously microing their marines. How many people who are psychotic Soccer fans play soccer on their free time? How many fat americans who will sooner suck Ben Roethlisberger's cock before they screw their wife actually go out and play a serious game of football? Rhetorical questions!!
A sport needs glory. It needs an end all be all. It needs prestige. It needs one ring to rule them all. And it certainly needs much much more than a majority base who all dream of being pro one day. This is why I watch GSL exclusively. Because it is what matters. It is where the best play. Never once have I purchased an MLG ticket. Never once have I tuned in to Day9;s after hours tournament, because those guys are professionals AT SOMETHING ELSE. Hey, let's watch Michael Jordan play baseball kids!!! YEAH!!!! Oh wait.........
I understand why things are the way they are at this very moment. This is a business and revenue needs to be generated and it certainly won't be given a subsidy of 100 billion dollars. Yes, you have to start small, and get hard...I mean big. Everything from a business perspective has birthed in a very standard way, but something is wrong. That something is the aura, we as the fanbase help to perpetuate. With an endless amount of tournaments popping up, disappearing, re popping and the mindless complexity of something such as the MLG annual schedule ( Which part of MLG matters? Hell if I know and I proudly do not give a shit )there is no possible way to ascertain what matters. If you cannot determine what matters, then naturally you ask what the fuck am I watching this for? If you answer "because I like playing starcraft and learning new builds" well.....that is NOT what this industry needs AT ALL. We need A STARCRAFT COMPETITION. NOT STARCRAFT COMPETITIONSSSSSSSSS. If I have to explain to my brother ( who does not care about any of this) why this kid who just won a tournament really holds no candle to a top Korean then....shit.......I feel dumb for even mentioning it. Not only do I feel dumb, but I feel ashamed for the scene that I love more than any other sport.
No I do not expect all lesser leagues to bow out overnight. They will bankrupt. That is how it works. And some will be assimilated using some of their facilities or networks or any useful pieces they may have. In hindsight I did not come on here to tell the depressed to stop watching 100 hours of Starcraft a week. I am saying that if Starcraft one day evolves into a pure legitimate sport it will not be because we have countless amounts of content. It will be because people who have never played SC2 are finally awake to the fact that this is something much more than a 3-d cake baked for nerd pleasure AND it will be because a Starcraft 2 title MATTERS. Editor's note: hmmm I am wondering if removing the 2 or any number from the title of the sport may help. After all it only serves as a reminder that this is a video game, and this is the sequel.
And...it would help if Blizzard shared this vision as well. For all we know they are more concerned with Starcraft 3 ( mmo or otherwise ) than they are of building a sporting dynasty. In addition to that, guaranteed, if that company controlled all rights ( given they do it properly ) to a one meaningful sporting league that earns millions of fans worldwide they would make far more money than they do now. Merchandising, revenue from the broadcasts, royalties etc. Who needs to make another Starcraft? We already have it. And it is a fucking sport. Of course World of Warcraft can be the engine that allows our sport to have all the finest amenities. :D
For those of you who have no jobs, or go to school and have no jobs, or have no interest in doing anything but watch SC2 VODS for eighteen hours each day, well.... you are already lost, and this post will only serve to give you a slight pinch in the asshole. I suspect anyone else would agree with me quickly or do so upon pondering what is really happening for a moment. If not....I dunno learn to think I guess.
p.s This post is written with a spirit that wants a much bigger picture. I am going to fucking hate everything about "E-Sports" if when a Starcraft 3 is released we have to start all this shit over again. To be a sport the game must at some point remain the same ( granted a perfect balancing is achieved ). At the very MOST updated graphics shall be implemented to stay current with the year 2065. Or we can just remain in our own little bubble reliving the birth, growth, and slow death of each competitive VIDEO GAME while desperately trying to get our loved ones to understand that the gift they gave us for christmas/birthday/baptism/virginity loss/ anniversary is something more than an escape from a difficult reality none of us pussy gamers are brave enough to face head on. (yeah that was sarcasm)
On October 18 2012 14:08 BernabusStarcraft2 wrote: Starcraft 2 best game in e-sports period. it's all in Blizzards court now, we can put as much pressure on them as possible but in the end it comes down to them. We just have to keep watching and giving our money to the tournements. In Blizzard we trust.
Brrrr, wrong... I think this is the case, most of us no longer trust Blizzard... They have been walking the same path for a long time, and they seem to be too stubborn to change critical errors with the game.
Just about everyone agrees that one race feels kinda stable and the two others just feels broken. I loved watching SC2 for over a year, but after I got my Dota key 17'th May, I realised yesterday that the last time I logged into SC2 was May 16'th, this game is so much fun to play, a totally different level of fun compared to SC2 with its ladder anxiety, cheeses and bm (yes, its bm in dota also, but it getts punished by the report system).
The worst thing about everything... I am not even going to buy HotS...
Those train jumping threads are always annoying. The only reason to open another thread is, because they fear their post doesn't get enough attention.
I mean you have D3 as the perfect example recently. Huge patch incoming announced over month ... *game dies out slowly*. Stop creating needless anti hype, it actually affects some peoples behavior to see multiple "sc2 dies" threads and that really hurts the game.
No idea if Sc2 is heading in the right direction or not. But changing direction is no option as it would lead to only failure. That being said I think Sc2 rather aims for a long stay, and not being a blazing flame that poofs within the blink of an eye. Don't forget this is the rts genre ... its not for everyone.
Dota games also pull in MMO players who love PvP. And f2p MMOs don't give a fair pvp environment, so they prefer Dota style games for that purpose.
On October 18 2012 16:05 Particle wrote: Listen naysayers/children. Sc2's piece of the e-sports pie will fizzle out. I watch GSL exclusively, because, in my opinion( if this is actually an opinion) the players are the best. Since the players are the best, that specific tournament can therefore be regarded as "THE SC2". What then is the purpose of MLG, DreamHack, IEM, blah, blah blah etc etc etc?
Do you see another NFL in America? Is there another derivative of basketball in the United States? Would you not be completely overwhelmed by having fourteen football games to watch in one day because eight different leagues are begging for your attention. Furthermore, if this were the case which one matters? No answer to that. It would just be a football ( substitute football for any other major professional sporting league ) orgy, day in day out with no real climaxes, and no real finales. Your brain wouldn't be able to anticipate, or care because it is still being raped by the residual sensory input from the day before ( which you only just finished viewing in the wee mornings of the next day).
This scene is so unbelievably over saturated it makes me want to scream. There needs to be a consolidation. I want to watch the best of the best of the best play one another. And I want a season to have meaning. AND I DO NOT WANT to find myself asking a fellow starfan "HEY!! Did you catch the finals last night?!!!" only to have the poor schmuck reply with " which one?" IF THIS HAS TO BE ASKED, NEITHER MATTER. At the moment it boils down to people following specific players, and whichever tournament said player is in, well thats THE TOURNAMENT THAT MATTERS BRO. Or...hey, look! So in So is casting this tournament! Well shit man, lemme shell out twenty bucks only so I can hear their godlike voice. How about those couches at Dreamhack that were so innovating, Leonardo Da'Vinci pulled himself from his grave and furiously masturbated?! How about the pitifulness of SC2 having to share space with games that, let's be honest require half the mental stamina and even less skill.
For this INDUSTRY to grow we need the folks who do not play this shit. We do not need to keep appealing to thirteen year olds who have all fucking day to monitor bullshit tournaments while simultaneously microing their marines. How many people who are psychotic Soccer fans play soccer on their free time? How many fat americans who will sooner suck Ben Roethlisberger's cock before they screw their wife actually go out and play a serious game of football? Rhetorical questions!!
A sport needs glory. It needs an end all be all. It needs prestige. It needs one ring to rule them all. And it certainly needs much much more than a majority base who all dream of being pro one day. This is why I watch GSL exclusively. Because it is what matters. It is where the best play. Never once have I purchased an MLG ticket. Never once have I tuned in to Day9;s after hours tournament, because those guys are professionals AT SOMETHING ELSE. Hey, let's watch Michael Jordan play baseball kids!!! YEAH!!!! Oh wait.........
I understand why things are the way they are at this very moment. This is a business and revenue needs to be generated and it certainly won't be given a subsidy of 100 billion dollars. Yes, you have to start small, and get hard...I mean big. Everything from a business perspective has birthed in a very standard way, but something is wrong. That something is the aura, we as the fanbase help to perpetuate. With an endless amount of tournaments popping up, disappearing, re popping and the mindless complexity of something such as the MLG annual schedule ( Which part of MLG matters? Hell if I know and I proudly do not give a shit )there is no possible way to ascertain what matters. If you cannot determine what matters, then naturally you ask what the fuck am I watching this for? If you answer "because I like playing starcraft and learning new builds" well.....that is NOT what this industry needs AT ALL. We need A STARCRAFT COMPETITION. NOT STARCRAFT COMPETITIONSSSSSSSSS. If I have to explain to my brother ( who does not care about any of this) why this kid who just won a tournament really holds no candle to a top Korean then....shit.......I feel dumb for even mentioning it. Not only do I feel dumb, but I feel ashamed for the scene that I love more than any other sport.
No I do not expect all lesser leagues to bow out overnight. They will bankrupt. That is how it works. And some will be assimilated using some of their facilities or networks or any useful pieces they may have. In hindsight I did not come on here to tell the depressed to stop watching 100 hours of Starcraft a week. I am saying that if Starcraft one day evolves into a pure legitimate sport it will not be because we have countless amounts of content. It will be because people who have never played SC2 are finally awake to the fact that this is something much more than a 3-d cake baked for nerd pleasure AND it will be because a Starcraft 2 title MATTERS. Editor's note: hmmm I am wondering if removing the 2 or any number from the title of the sport may help. After all it only serves as a reminder that this is a video game, and this is the sequel.
And...it would help if Blizzard shared this vision as well. For all we know they are more concerned with Starcraft 3 ( mmo or otherwise ) than they are of building a sporting dynasty. In addition to that, guaranteed, if that company controlled all rights ( given they do it properly ) to a one meaningful sporting league that earns millions of fans worldwide they would make far more money than they do now. Merchandising, revenue from the broadcasts, royalties etc. Who needs to make another Starcraft? We already have it. And it is a fucking sport. Of course World of Warcraft can be the engine that allows our sport to have all the finest amenities. :D
For those of you who have no jobs, or go to school and have no jobs, or have no interest in doing anything but watch SC2 VODS for eighteen hours each day, well.... you are already lost, and this post will only serve to give you a slight pinch in the asshole. I suspect anyone else would agree with me quickly or do so upon pondering what is really happening for a moment. If not....I dunno learn to think I guess.
p.s This post is written with a spirit that wants a much bigger picture. I am going to fucking hate everything about "E-Sports" if when a Starcraft 3 is released we have to start all this shit over again. To be a sport the game must at some point remain the same ( granted a perfect balancing is achieved ). At the very MOST updated graphics shall be implemented to stay current with the year 2065. Or we can just remain in our own little bubble reliving the birth, growth, and slow death of each competitive VIDEO GAME while desperately trying to get our loved ones to understand that the gift they gave us for christmas/birthday/baptism/virginity loss/ anniversary is something more than an escape from a difficult reality none of us pussy gamers are brave enough to face head on. (yeah that was sarcasm)
p.p.s Go IM-MVP!!
Only problem is that you are wrong. Less streams equals less people following the scene. The constant content of streams is actually sc2's biggest advantage.
I find it ironic that Starcraft 2 is being overtaken by a game in a genre that started off as a mod in Warcraft 3, for which Blizzard stop giving a crap about except to milk the lore for all its got to fuel their World of Warcraft.
I haven't been following the Starcraft scene much after moving to Dota 2, but I knew something was going seriously wrong the moment TL added Dota 2 to its website. You guys can believe anything you want, but the only reason TL added Dota 2 was to try and save SC2 from LoL.
3 points: -Starcraft will never be as popular as Dota, i guess primarily because Starcraft's learning curve is much steeper. I don't think you can change that without destroying the game. (actually the amount of easy to use units in the game seems to be an attempt to make it easier to learn, and is not good for the game) -You can either make it easier and fish in the mainstream market (and have a fast growing fanbase), or you can make it harder, which will lead to a more hardcore fanbase (probably growing slower). At the moment Starcraft 2 tries to be both, which is a big mistake, if you ask me. -Broodwar was hard hard hard as fuck, when you started playing it (i sucked in it, still the game was interesting), still everyone remembers it as the best RTS there ever was. It wasn't accessible, or easy to learn, or f2p. If you want a game with the competitive spirit of BW, you have to create it in the spirit of BW.
On October 18 2012 16:05 Particle wrote: Listen naysayers/children. Sc2's piece of the e-sports pie will fizzle out. I watch GSL exclusively, because, in my opinion( if this is actually an opinion) the players are the best. Since the players are the best, that specific tournament can therefore be regarded as "THE SC2". What then is the purpose of MLG, DreamHack, IEM, blah, blah blah etc etc etc?
Do you see another NFL in America? Is there another derivative of basketball in the United States? Would you not be completely overwhelmed by having fourteen football games to watch in one day because eight different leagues are begging for your attention. Furthermore, if this were the case which one matters? No answer to that. It would just be a football ( substitute football for any other major professional sporting league ) orgy, day in day out with no real climaxes, and no real finales. Your brain wouldn't be able to anticipate, or care because it is still being raped by the residual sensory input from the day before ( which you only just finished viewing in the wee mornings of the next day).
This scene is so unbelievably over saturated it makes me want to scream. There needs to be a consolidation. I want to watch the best of the best of the best play one another. And I want a season to have meaning. AND I DO NOT WANT to find myself asking a fellow starfan "HEY!! Did you catch the finals last night?!!!" only to have the poor schmuck reply with " which one?" IF THIS HAS TO BE ASKED, NEITHER MATTER. At the moment it boils down to people following specific players, and whichever tournament said player is in, well thats THE TOURNAMENT THAT MATTERS BRO. Or...hey, look! So in So is casting this tournament! Well shit man, lemme shell out twenty bucks only so I can hear their godlike voice. How about those couches at Dreamhack that were so innovating, Leonardo Da'Vinci pulled himself from his grave and furiously masturbated?! How about the pitifulness of SC2 having to share space with games that, let's be honest require half the mental stamina and even less skill.
For this INDUSTRY to grow we need the folks who do not play this shit. We do not need to keep appealing to thirteen year olds who have all fucking day to monitor bullshit tournaments while simultaneously microing their marines. How many people who are psychotic Soccer fans play soccer on their free time? How many fat americans who will sooner suck Ben Roethlisberger's cock before they screw their wife actually go out and play a serious game of football? Rhetorical questions!!
A sport needs glory. It needs an end all be all. It needs prestige. It needs one ring to rule them all. And it certainly needs much much more than a majority base who all dream of being pro one day. This is why I watch GSL exclusively. Because it is what matters. It is where the best play. Never once have I purchased an MLG ticket. Never once have I tuned in to Day9;s after hours tournament, because those guys are professionals AT SOMETHING ELSE. Hey, let's watch Michael Jordan play baseball kids!!! YEAH!!!! Oh wait.........
I understand why things are the way they are at this very moment. This is a business and revenue needs to be generated and it certainly won't be given a subsidy of 100 billion dollars. Yes, you have to start small, and get hard...I mean big. Everything from a business perspective has birthed in a very standard way, but something is wrong. That something is the aura, we as the fanbase help to perpetuate. With an endless amount of tournaments popping up, disappearing, re popping and the mindless complexity of something such as the MLG annual schedule ( Which part of MLG matters? Hell if I know and I proudly do not give a shit )there is no possible way to ascertain what matters. If you cannot determine what matters, then naturally you ask what the fuck am I watching this for? If you answer "because I like playing starcraft and learning new builds" well.....that is NOT what this industry needs AT ALL. We need A STARCRAFT COMPETITION. NOT STARCRAFT COMPETITIONSSSSSSSSS. If I have to explain to my brother ( who does not care about any of this) why this kid who just won a tournament really holds no candle to a top Korean then....shit.......I feel dumb for even mentioning it. Not only do I feel dumb, but I feel ashamed for the scene that I love more than any other sport.
No I do not expect all lesser leagues to bow out overnight. They will bankrupt. That is how it works. And some will be assimilated using some of their facilities or networks or any useful pieces they may have. In hindsight I did not come on here to tell the depressed to stop watching 100 hours of Starcraft a week. I am saying that if Starcraft one day evolves into a pure legitimate sport it will not be because we have countless amounts of content. It will be because people who have never played SC2 are finally awake to the fact that this is something much more than a 3-d cake baked for nerd pleasure AND it will be because a Starcraft 2 title MATTERS. Editor's note: hmmm I am wondering if removing the 2 or any number from the title of the sport may help. After all it only serves as a reminder that this is a video game, and this is the sequel.
And...it would help if Blizzard shared this vision as well. For all we know they are more concerned with Starcraft 3 ( mmo or otherwise ) than they are of building a sporting dynasty. In addition to that, guaranteed, if that company controlled all rights ( given they do it properly ) to a one meaningful sporting league that earns millions of fans worldwide they would make far more money than they do now. Merchandising, revenue from the broadcasts, royalties etc. Who needs to make another Starcraft? We already have it. And it is a fucking sport. Of course World of Warcraft can be the engine that allows our sport to have all the finest amenities. :D
For those of you who have no jobs, or go to school and have no jobs, or have no interest in doing anything but watch SC2 VODS for eighteen hours each day, well.... you are already lost, and this post will only serve to give you a slight pinch in the asshole. I suspect anyone else would agree with me quickly or do so upon pondering what is really happening for a moment. If not....I dunno learn to think I guess.
p.s This post is written with a spirit that wants a much bigger picture. I am going to fucking hate everything about "E-Sports" if when a Starcraft 3 is released we have to start all this shit over again. To be a sport the game must at some point remain the same ( granted a perfect balancing is achieved ). At the very MOST updated graphics shall be implemented to stay current with the year 2065. Or we can just remain in our own little bubble reliving the birth, growth, and slow death of each competitive VIDEO GAME while desperately trying to get our loved ones to understand that the gift they gave us for christmas/birthday/baptism/virginity loss/ anniversary is something more than an escape from a difficult reality none of us pussy gamers are brave enough to face head on. (yeah that was sarcasm)
p.p.s Go IM-MVP!!
Only problem is that you are wrong. Less streams equals less people following the scene. The constant content of streams is actually sc2's biggest advantage.
Pretty sure he was referring to the dozens of SC2 tournaments, not the streams.
If the trend of doomsayers and "Crisis" threads continues then this will only become a self-fulfilling prophecy, the only reason StarCraft 2 will fail is because it was defeated by a horde of self-inflicted pessimism. Does a team disbanding and a bunch of silly threads really mean the end of RTS e-sports?
Yes SC2 might be going through a bad patch but haven't all sports industries gone through rough spots? SC2 can definitely recover because there are fans who are completely loyal to the type of gameplay that is so unique to starcraft,but it definitely won't if its fans keep bashing blizzard to do everything and nothing at the same time
On October 18 2012 14:47 6BiT wrote: Also people need to stop bringing up Dota2 & LoL when talking about the survivability of sc2. They are completely different games, its like comparing tennis to football. If sc2 can't stand alongside Dota 2, LoL and other various games, then esports as a whole is failing... not just sc2.
If you are talking about spectator and even player demographics, I'm pretty sure that Dota2, LoL and SC2 are drawing from the same group. Something like males, 15 to 25 years old. They're (Dota, LoL, SC) all basically the same thing in the grand scheme of things.
On October 18 2012 16:05 Particle wrote: Listen naysayers/children. Sc2's piece of the e-sports pie will fizzle out. I watch GSL exclusively, because, in my opinion( if this is actually an opinion) the players are the best. Since the players are the best, that specific tournament can therefore be regarded as "THE SC2". What then is the purpose of MLG, DreamHack, IEM, blah, blah blah etc etc etc?
Do you see another NFL in America? Is there another derivative of basketball in the United States? Would you not be completely overwhelmed by having fourteen football games to watch in one day because eight different leagues are begging for your attention. Furthermore, if this were the case which one matters? No answer to that. It would just be a football ( substitute football for any other major professional sporting league ) orgy, day in day out with no real climaxes, and no real finales. Your brain wouldn't be able to anticipate, or care because it is still being raped by the residual sensory input from the day before ( which you only just finished viewing in the wee mornings of the next day).
This scene is so unbelievably over saturated it makes me want to scream. There needs to be a consolidation. I want to watch the best of the best of the best play one another. And I want a season to have meaning. AND I DO NOT WANT to find myself asking a fellow starfan "HEY!! Did you catch the finals last night?!!!" only to have the poor schmuck reply with " which one?" IF THIS HAS TO BE ASKED, NEITHER MATTER. At the moment it boils down to people following specific players, and whichever tournament said player is in, well thats THE TOURNAMENT THAT MATTERS BRO. Or...hey, look! So in So is casting this tournament! Well shit man, lemme shell out twenty bucks only so I can hear their godlike voice. How about those couches at Dreamhack that were so innovating, Leonardo Da'Vinci pulled himself from his grave and furiously masturbated?! How about the pitifulness of SC2 having to share space with games that, let's be honest require half the mental stamina and even less skill.
For this INDUSTRY to grow we need the folks who do not play this shit. We do not need to keep appealing to thirteen year olds who have all fucking day to monitor bullshit tournaments while simultaneously microing their marines. How many people who are psychotic Soccer fans play soccer on their free time? How many fat americans who will sooner suck Ben Roethlisberger's cock before they screw their wife actually go out and play a serious game of football? Rhetorical questions!!
A sport needs glory. It needs an end all be all. It needs prestige. It needs one ring to rule them all. And it certainly needs much much more than a majority base who all dream of being pro one day. This is why I watch GSL exclusively. Because it is what matters. It is where the best play. Never once have I purchased an MLG ticket. Never once have I tuned in to Day9;s after hours tournament, because those guys are professionals AT SOMETHING ELSE. Hey, let's watch Michael Jordan play baseball kids!!! YEAH!!!! Oh wait.........
I understand why things are the way they are at this very moment. This is a business and revenue needs to be generated and it certainly won't be given a subsidy of 100 billion dollars. Yes, you have to start small, and get hard...I mean big. Everything from a business perspective has birthed in a very standard way, but something is wrong. That something is the aura, we as the fanbase help to perpetuate. With an endless amount of tournaments popping up, disappearing, re popping and the mindless complexity of something such as the MLG annual schedule ( Which part of MLG matters? Hell if I know and I proudly do not give a shit )there is no possible way to ascertain what matters. If you cannot determine what matters, then naturally you ask what the fuck am I watching this for? If you answer "because I like playing starcraft and learning new builds" well.....that is NOT what this industry needs AT ALL. We need A STARCRAFT COMPETITION. NOT STARCRAFT COMPETITIONSSSSSSSSS. If I have to explain to my brother ( who does not care about any of this) why this kid who just won a tournament really holds no candle to a top Korean then....shit.......I feel dumb for even mentioning it. Not only do I feel dumb, but I feel ashamed for the scene that I love more than any other sport.
No I do not expect all lesser leagues to bow out overnight. They will bankrupt. That is how it works. And some will be assimilated using some of their facilities or networks or any useful pieces they may have. In hindsight I did not come on here to tell the depressed to stop watching 100 hours of Starcraft a week. I am saying that if Starcraft one day evolves into a pure legitimate sport it will not be because we have countless amounts of content. It will be because people who have never played SC2 are finally awake to the fact that this is something much more than a 3-d cake baked for nerd pleasure AND it will be because a Starcraft 2 title MATTERS. Editor's note: hmmm I am wondering if removing the 2 or any number from the title of the sport may help. After all it only serves as a reminder that this is a video game, and this is the sequel.
And...it would help if Blizzard shared this vision as well. For all we know they are more concerned with Starcraft 3 ( mmo or otherwise ) than they are of building a sporting dynasty. In addition to that, guaranteed, if that company controlled all rights ( given they do it properly ) to a one meaningful sporting league that earns millions of fans worldwide they would make far more money than they do now. Merchandising, revenue from the broadcasts, royalties etc. Who needs to make another Starcraft? We already have it. And it is a fucking sport. Of course World of Warcraft can be the engine that allows our sport to have all the finest amenities. :D
For those of you who have no jobs, or go to school and have no jobs, or have no interest in doing anything but watch SC2 VODS for eighteen hours each day, well.... you are already lost, and this post will only serve to give you a slight pinch in the asshole. I suspect anyone else would agree with me quickly or do so upon pondering what is really happening for a moment. If not....I dunno learn to think I guess.
p.s This post is written with a spirit that wants a much bigger picture. I am going to fucking hate everything about "E-Sports" if when a Starcraft 3 is released we have to start all this shit over again. To be a sport the game must at some point remain the same ( granted a perfect balancing is achieved ). At the very MOST updated graphics shall be implemented to stay current with the year 2065. Or we can just remain in our own little bubble reliving the birth, growth, and slow death of each competitive VIDEO GAME while desperately trying to get our loved ones to understand that the gift they gave us for christmas/birthday/baptism/virginity loss/ anniversary is something more than an escape from a difficult reality none of us pussy gamers are brave enough to face head on. (yeah that was sarcasm)
p.p.s Go IM-MVP!!
Nice post, never really thought about it, but you make some good points.
(Now there's no more Broodwar tourney's, we should just call Starcraft 2, Starcraft.)
Has anyone done a study as to why more people would watch LoL or similar games as opposed to a game like SC2? I just wonder because I find LoL incredibly boring to watch but find SC2 riveting. I was wondering if anyone had some data on what appeals to people about games like that, not just to play, but also to watch.
On October 18 2012 16:05 Particle wrote: Listen naysayers/children. Sc2's piece of the e-sports pie will fizzle out. I watch GSL exclusively, because, in my opinion( if this is actually an opinion) the players are the best. Since the players are the best, that specific tournament can therefore be regarded as "THE SC2". What then is the purpose of MLG, DreamHack, IEM, blah, blah blah etc etc etc?
Do you see another NFL in America? Is there another derivative of basketball in the United States? Would you not be completely overwhelmed by having fourteen football games to watch in one day because eight different leagues are begging for your attention. Furthermore, if this were the case which one matters? No answer to that. It would just be a football ( substitute football for any other major professional sporting league ) orgy, day in day out with no real climaxes, and no real finales. Your brain wouldn't be able to anticipate, or care because it is still being raped by the residual sensory input from the day before ( which you only just finished viewing in the wee mornings of the next day).
This scene is so unbelievably over saturated it makes me want to scream. There needs to be a consolidation. I want to watch the best of the best of the best play one another. And I want a season to have meaning. AND I DO NOT WANT to find myself asking a fellow starfan "HEY!! Did you catch the finals last night?!!!" only to have the poor schmuck reply with " which one?" IF THIS HAS TO BE ASKED, NEITHER MATTER. At the moment it boils down to people following specific players, and whichever tournament said player is in, well thats THE TOURNAMENT THAT MATTERS BRO. Or...hey, look! So in So is casting this tournament! Well shit man, lemme shell out twenty bucks only so I can hear their godlike voice. How about those couches at Dreamhack that were so innovating, Leonardo Da'Vinci pulled himself from his grave and furiously masturbated?! How about the pitifulness of SC2 having to share space with games that, let's be honest require half the mental stamina and even less skill.
For this INDUSTRY to grow we need the folks who do not play this shit. We do not need to keep appealing to thirteen year olds who have all fucking day to monitor bullshit tournaments while simultaneously microing their marines. How many people who are psychotic Soccer fans play soccer on their free time? How many fat americans who will sooner suck Ben Roethlisberger's cock before they screw their wife actually go out and play a serious game of football? Rhetorical questions!!
A sport needs glory. It needs an end all be all. It needs prestige. It needs one ring to rule them all. And it certainly needs much much more than a majority base who all dream of being pro one day. This is why I watch GSL exclusively. Because it is what matters. It is where the best play. Never once have I purchased an MLG ticket. Never once have I tuned in to Day9;s after hours tournament, because those guys are professionals AT SOMETHING ELSE. Hey, let's watch Michael Jordan play baseball kids!!! YEAH!!!! Oh wait.........
I understand why things are the way they are at this very moment. This is a business and revenue needs to be generated and it certainly won't be given a subsidy of 100 billion dollars. Yes, you have to start small, and get hard...I mean big. Everything from a business perspective has birthed in a very standard way, but something is wrong. That something is the aura, we as the fanbase help to perpetuate. With an endless amount of tournaments popping up, disappearing, re popping and the mindless complexity of something such as the MLG annual schedule ( Which part of MLG matters? Hell if I know and I proudly do not give a shit )there is no possible way to ascertain what matters. If you cannot determine what matters, then naturally you ask what the fuck am I watching this for? If you answer "because I like playing starcraft and learning new builds" well.....that is NOT what this industry needs AT ALL. We need A STARCRAFT COMPETITION. NOT STARCRAFT COMPETITIONSSSSSSSSS. If I have to explain to my brother ( who does not care about any of this) why this kid who just won a tournament really holds no candle to a top Korean then....shit.......I feel dumb for even mentioning it. Not only do I feel dumb, but I feel ashamed for the scene that I love more than any other sport.
No I do not expect all lesser leagues to bow out overnight. They will bankrupt. That is how it works. And some will be assimilated using some of their facilities or networks or any useful pieces they may have. In hindsight I did not come on here to tell the depressed to stop watching 100 hours of Starcraft a week. I am saying that if Starcraft one day evolves into a pure legitimate sport it will not be because we have countless amounts of content. It will be because people who have never played SC2 are finally awake to the fact that this is something much more than a 3-d cake baked for nerd pleasure AND it will be because a Starcraft 2 title MATTERS. Editor's note: hmmm I am wondering if removing the 2 or any number from the title of the sport may help. After all it only serves as a reminder that this is a video game, and this is the sequel.
And...it would help if Blizzard shared this vision as well. For all we know they are more concerned with Starcraft 3 ( mmo or otherwise ) than they are of building a sporting dynasty. In addition to that, guaranteed, if that company controlled all rights ( given they do it properly ) to a one meaningful sporting league that earns millions of fans worldwide they would make far more money than they do now. Merchandising, revenue from the broadcasts, royalties etc. Who needs to make another Starcraft? We already have it. And it is a fucking sport. Of course World of Warcraft can be the engine that allows our sport to have all the finest amenities. :D
For those of you who have no jobs, or go to school and have no jobs, or have no interest in doing anything but watch SC2 VODS for eighteen hours each day, well.... you are already lost, and this post will only serve to give you a slight pinch in the asshole. I suspect anyone else would agree with me quickly or do so upon pondering what is really happening for a moment. If not....I dunno learn to think I guess.
p.s This post is written with a spirit that wants a much bigger picture. I am going to fucking hate everything about "E-Sports" if when a Starcraft 3 is released we have to start all this shit over again. To be a sport the game must at some point remain the same ( granted a perfect balancing is achieved ). At the very MOST updated graphics shall be implemented to stay current with the year 2065. Or we can just remain in our own little bubble reliving the birth, growth, and slow death of each competitive VIDEO GAME while desperately trying to get our loved ones to understand that the gift they gave us for christmas/birthday/baptism/virginity loss/ anniversary is something more than an escape from a difficult reality none of us pussy gamers are brave enough to face head on. (yeah that was sarcasm)
p.p.s Go IM-MVP!!
Nice post, never really thought about it, but you make some good points.
(Now there's no more Broodwar tourney's, we should just call Starcraft 2, Starcraft.)
Thank you sir. That thought of removing sequel annotations was one of my last. Quite surprised I had a positive feedback on that.
I am quite bored of this kind of thread. Who started this? Just stop already nothing interesting here. To be honest it seems like all people who made the threads about this are people who want that "crisis" to happen.
On October 18 2012 16:59 HonorZ wrote: Fortunately the soon to come end of the world will give us a quick death, allowing us not to witness the decay of our glorious SC2 civilization.
I haven't been keeping track of viewer numbers, sponsorships and price pools. It would be interesting to do some kind of survey of such figures, since they're sort of objective indicators for trends in popularity. Neither claiming the game is doomed because of queen range five nor pledging one will always love it is very helpful in judging the situation.
But what filter says resonates with my experience as a viewer and fan. I've lost a lot of my excitement for tournaments. When trying to pinpoint why, two things come to mind. First, there seem to be so many tourneys that each of them doesn't seem to matter much. Second, many games do seem to play out largely the same. So the gameplay itself has little surprises and the results don't matter. As a result, I'm losing interest.
When I compare my TSL3 and TSL4 viewing experience, the difference is huge. TSL3 was exciting, I was looking forward to the next matches and they often kept me at the edge of my seat. TSL4 seemed to suffer from the beginning from the fact that many top level players didn't even bother to try seriously to qualify. I didn't know what to make of the player pool. It seemed random, certainly not a selection of the world's best players. After being excited when it was first announced and I subscribed to TSL+, I ended up not ordering my free poster and not even watching the semis and finals because I was so underwhelmed and didn't care who'd win. That would have been inconceivable in TSL3.
As for the tournament scene, maybe it really would be a good thing to have some consolidation. A small number of big tournaments that matter and are mandatory for top players to attend if they want to be relevant. In conventional sports, football, basketball, whatever, viewers know what tourneys there are and what they mean. Not the case in SC2, the picture is convoluted and messy. Only the GSL and, to a lesser extent, the MLG really stand out. The NASL is nice, but it's more of a daily show than something that makes for a saturday night event, so to speak. Yes, I know the GSL airs daily too. But it's quite different because it has the best players and an accordingly high production value. And with the tight competition over there, they're very much closer to a situation where every single game does matter and therefore makes for an exciting show.
As for the gameplay becoming stale, I don't consider my understanding of the game to be deep enough to really judge why. I saw Bly taking down Huk in a TSL4 qualifier, among other things with a spine crawler rush. I know cheese is frowned upon, and for a good reason when it makes victories seem undeserved. But what I felt was symptomatic about that series of games was that Huk stubbornly went for a fast expand three times in a row when he knew that Bly was cheesing/rushing, and completely failed to react. It reminded me of my own ladder experiences where Protosses (and I'm not singling out Protosses, it's just an example) somehow feel entitled to not be disturbed for the first eight minutes to get their expansion up, so that when I do disturb them, they flame me as if I cheated. That was at a point I screwed around with stuff like spine crawler rushes and in-base proxy hatcheries for a couple of games. I didn't even do that to win, I improvised having no build or plan whatsoever. I did it simply because I got bored playing out the same narrative over and over. Surprisingly, I won more of those games than I should have because my opponents failed to react or even straight-out refused to react.
Bottom line: there is a dominant attitude that everything should be played by the book, which means, according to expectation. I see very little on-the-fly creativity, little need to adapt to unexpected scenarios, and little appreciation for a player's ability to do so. I'm not sure why that is. We probably don't want to go back to the cheese-fest tournaments of the first six months of SC2, but with games being too predictable, watching them becomes boring and pointless. Maybe it's just that the nuances that top players change in their planned out builds and ingame adaptations, while being highly intriguing for experts, are just too subtle for the average viewer to grasp. This would be a real dilemma we face with the idea of SC2 going mainstream and trying to appeal to a general, non-expert audience.
EPT
