EPTMLG is investing they say, but so far there has been no indication that the investment is even worth it.
Destiny on where he thinks SC2 is heading. - Page 66
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Youtakenocandle
543 Posts
MLG is investing they say, but so far there has been no indication that the investment is even worth it. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On October 19 2012 06:39 Youtakenocandle wrote: Who didn't see this coming? ESPORTS shoved down our throats so that MLG or IPL can play pretend big sports event. LoL is huge, but that's because the game is insanely popular, for now. And there are a few huge tourneys. LoL will decline eventually too, until the next game. There will never be people in their 40s still hooked to watching LoL, because people grow out of video games AND because games come and go. MLG is investing they say, but so far there has been no indication that the investment is even worth it. No, LoL is built upon passion and loyalty and then tournaments slowly start to appear because players actually fought really hard to legitimize the scene. You can't simply erase people'e blood and sweat. | ||
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Mackus
England1681 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:21 bokeevboke wrote: Hah, when I heard about RMAH I knew diablo 3 is going to suck and never considered buying. eventhough I am big fan of diablo 1/2. I'm glad that I'm so fucking smart and foresaw it  1) Stop derailing the thread 2) D3 died because it had absolutely nothing at max difficulty except from increased overpowered Champions Word has reached from SotG that Blizzard are now in discussion with CatZ and Mr. Bitter who will lead a team about the design of HOTS I consider Mr. Bitter to be a very good caster but I think they're doing it wrong again. If you want feedback you get it from the best - The Koreans. I'm trying to put this without sounding disrespectful but I don't think CatZ is good enough in the game to warrant the ability to say this is good or this bad. I genuinely hope they'll ask the community for the main concerns and the overwhelming repeated ones get brought forward instead of they having their own opinions. PS. Whoever thought of the Upkeep from WC3 to stop deathballs is a genius | ||
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Hydrolisko
Vanuatu1659 Posts
1. Brood War was a godsend. In the sense that A LOT OF LUCK went into it being successful. I don't even think Blizzard had a clue how good a game they had made. Everything from little exploitable bugs that would turn into spectacular pro plays, to Brood War's ridiculous onscreen appeal, to its perfect dynamic of simplicity and complexity, to these ridiculously addictive UMS maps--I don't think any of these things were intended by Blizzard, but they just happened to be--because of luck. 2. There's no reason to lament SC2's failures because SC2 really isn't much of a failure. It just had the impossible task to live up to the incredibly lucky Brood War. It won't happen. You can't buy luck, you can't create it. I think its best to just accept that Brood War is one of those once in a decade or even once in a generation games. You can't really replicate it because not only did skill go into making the game successful, but also a ton of luck. I wouldn't be calling out Blizzard to improve SC2 to BW standards, but rather be thankful that we had Brood War, and allow SC2 to be what it is--an amazing game that will never live up to Brood War. | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On October 19 2012 06:56 Xiphos wrote: No, LoL is built upon passion and loyalty and then tournaments slowly start to appear because players actually fought really hard to legitimize the scene. You can't simply erase people'e blood and sweat. Well if 95% of the derps posting on this thread can be so convinced that Starcraft 2 could suffer that then why not?  I obviously agree and the irony is that everyone who is calling the sky is falling and sc2 is dying would probably agree with you as well, while simultaneously making the opposite argument against sc2. In either case your comment is all that should really be needed to end this ridiculous Sc2 panic. The sc2 e-sports community is the biggest in the world and built by fan passion and dedication, it is not going to go away for that reason. | ||
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murkk
Canada154 Posts
On October 17 2012 13:53 ROOTT1 wrote:OH MY FUCKING GOD SKILL CEILING SO HIGH NO MULTIPLE BILDING SIELECT FUK AUTO-MICRO OH MY GOD SO COMPETITIVEEE!1111 This OP post is actually a breath of fresh air. It's great to here a big name actually complain about the horrible UI and interface that's complete shit to make the game more "difficult" for the top .5% of players while completely fucking everyone else from having a good time. If the pros and the TL board had this same attitude from the get-go, the game would have been far better, but unfortunately they didn't and Blizz listened to them. Blizz should be able to fix this game and really churn out a good product, but they seem to have this huge cloak of apathy +2 around them. "Yeah sure, we have the resources and skill to make this a completely kick ass game for everyone but ... well... yeah, we just don't feel like it". | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:12 VanGarde wrote: Well if 95% of the derps posting on this thread can be so convinced that Starcraft 2 could suffer that then why not? I obviously agree and the irony is that everyone who is calling the sky is falling and sc2 is dying would probably agree with you as well, while simultaneously making the opposite argument against sc2. In either case your comment is all that should really be needed to end this ridiculous Sc2 panic. The sc2 e-sports community is the biggest in the world and built by fan passion and dedication, it is not going to go away for that reason. SC2's biggest competition was BW which Blizzard killed. That's forcing a product down to people's throat. + Blizzard support many of their tournaments in the beginning in hoping to make it big instead of letting it grow on their own for people to feel loyalty because it wasn't their effort that have constructed the scene but more that of the game company. | ||
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SCG.StatiC
South Africa33 Posts
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Megabuster123
Canada1837 Posts
On October 19 2012 06:39 Youtakenocandle wrote: Who didn't see this coming? ESPORTS shoved down our throats so that MLG or IPL can play pretend big sports event. LoL is huge, but that's because the game is insanely popular, for now. And there are a few huge tourneys. LoL will decline eventually too, until the next game. There will never be people in their 40s still hooked to watching LoL, because people grow out of video games AND because games come and go. MLG is investing they say, but so far there has been no indication that the investment is even worth it. What does that mean, people grow out of games? How is that the crux of your statement? Some people do, others don't. That's like saying soccer will die out because people will just grow out of it. | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:43 Xiphos wrote: SC2's biggest competition was BW which Blizzard killed. That's forcing a product down to people's throat. + Blizzard support many of their tournaments in the beginning in hoping to make it big instead of letting it grow on their own for people to feel loyalty because it wasn't their effort that have constructed the scene but more that of the game company. Oh how quickly we forget.. Either that is just incredibly ignorant to actual facts or massive spit in the face to everyone who pushed sc2 esports to where it is. Blizzard may have done their part, mostly by promoting the GSL but the sc2 esports phenomenon were built from early in beta by countless content providers who were really passionate about making this game huge. Day9, hd and husky and a lot of others were pioneering e-sports content from the get go, this grassroots movement is what built the interest to get gsl going and after that to get things like ipl and nasl. The starcraft 2 e-sports scene was built by pure passion and would not exist if it had not been for fans and players realizing the potential of the game already during beta. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:43 Xiphos wrote: SC2's biggest competition was BW which Blizzard killed. That's forcing a product down to people's throat. + Blizzard support many of their tournaments in the beginning in hoping to make it big instead of letting it grow on their own for people to feel loyalty because it wasn't their effort that have constructed the scene but more that of the game company. how the fuck did Blizzard killed BW? That game is great don't get me wrong but it is like what 10 years old now? No sponsors will want to sponsor BW now because they can't showcase their top-end gaming spec and gears because hell BW can be run with a fucking toaster it's so old. The lack of LAN in BW means Blizzard can't pull the plug and black list tournament IP's, so tell me, how was BW killed by Blizzard? | ||
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:02 Mackus wrote: 1) Stop derailing the thread 2) D3 died because it had absolutely nothing at max difficulty except from increased overpowered Champions Word has reached from SotG that Blizzard are now in discussion with CatZ and Mr. Bitter who will lead a team about the design of HOTS I consider Mr. Bitter to be a very good caster but I think they're doing it wrong again. If you want feedback you get it from the best - The Koreans. I'm trying to put this without sounding disrespectful but I don't think CatZ is good enough in the game to warrant the ability to say this is good or this bad. I genuinely hope they'll ask the community for the main concerns and the overwhelming repeated ones get brought forward instead of they having their own opinions. PS. Whoever thought of the Upkeep from WC3 to stop deathballs is a genius So you disagree with the original post by Destiny then? He's arguing that a game's popularity as an esport depends on its accessibility to casuals and NOT on catering to the pros. You're saying that they should stop talking to Catz and Mr. Bitter because they aren't good enough at the game. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:08 Hydrolisko wrote: my 2 cents: 1. Brood War was a godsend. In the sense that A LOT OF LUCK went into it being successful. I don't even think Blizzard had a clue how good a game they had made. Everything from little exploitable bugs that would turn into spectacular pro plays, to Brood War's ridiculous onscreen appeal, to its perfect dynamic of simplicity and complexity, to these ridiculously addictive UMS maps--I don't think any of these things were intended by Blizzard, but they just happened to be--because of luck. 2. There's no reason to lament SC2's failures because SC2 really isn't much of a failure. It just had the impossible task to live up to the incredibly lucky Brood War. It won't happen. You can't buy luck, you can't create it. I think its best to just accept that Brood War is one of those once in a decade or even once in a generation games. You can't really replicate it because not only did skill go into making the game successful, but also a ton of luck. I wouldn't be calling out Blizzard to improve SC2 to BW standards, but rather be thankful that we had Brood War, and allow SC2 to be what it is--an amazing game that will never live up to Brood War. But if you can rightfully point out some of the reasons why BW was lucky, and there's 14 years of history to look on, why shouldn't professional game developers be able to identify the reasons? The way you word it it's as if it's two separate games released at the same time and one got lucky. But it's a sequel and clearly not a rushed one either. I can think of examples of successful games from that era which had excellent follow-ups which added to the formula instead of removing. Civ 2 to Alpha Centauri, Fallout 1 to 2 for example prehaps. Things like your UMS example, that's something they've simply broken out of their own stupid design decisions instead of copying the massively successful formula.. it's pure incompetence. And anyone asking how Blizzard killed the BW proscene are you fucking clueless? Why even comment if you don't know the situation? They tried to sue the broadcasters and clearly strong-armed the organizations into a switch after leaving it alone for 10 years; after letting them entirely build the biggest eSports scene there has ever been without any help from Blizzard. On October 19 2012 07:56 Supamang wrote: So you disagree with the original post by Destiny then? He's arguing that a game's popularity as an esport depends on its accessibility to casuals and NOT on catering to the pros. You're saying that they should stop talking to Catz and Mr. Bitter because they aren't good enough at the game. The things in the OP don't just appeal to casuals.. just earlier i saw high level Koreans playing 3v3 Hunters on a BW stream. People sitting around in clan channels and playing whatever, if it's 1v1's, Hunters 2v2/3v3 or micro UMS maps, was a big part of making it feel like an actual community and it carries onto this day. There were even spin-off shows on OGN/MBC dedicated to this kind of fun play. | ||
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mindspike
Canada1902 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:50 SCG.StatiC wrote: I don't really give a damn. I love Starcraft 2 so I will continue to play and watch it. How's that working for BW fans? If SC2 continues on a downward decline there will be nothing to watch. | ||
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DeanMalinco
United States43 Posts
All of my friends loved to play sc2 during the first months of release. We would play constantly and then the skill level started separating the ones who could play regularly or take time to study and become better at the game. In addition to many of the great points brought up in this thread, I think that the UI is one of the hugest contributing factors. Like many have said, there is no community, no ease of finding custom games or watching others play. If you want to improve you have to do it outside of the game on TL,Youtube, Forums, etc. The learning curve is steeper in RTS (specifically BW/SC2) games then other types. I think that if sc2 had a detailed help or learning tool many of the casual players could catch on quicker and enjoy the game at low levels. This would provide them with building blocks for their future of sc2. Picture the Microsoft Word PaperClip who comes to help you randomly and suggest you can do things more optimal. Example: I am playing as Protoss against some guy I found in the new re-vamped UI custom game lobby. He is playing as zerg and after joining the game for a few seconds a message comes up and says "when playing against zerg, it is a good idea to use good building placement so that your opponents early zerglings cannot get to your probes" (you get the idea....). Throughout the game you get various reminders. Obviously some will be more advanced then others. Perhaps you can select the amount of help you want or remove specific notifications that you have learned already. This mode would be available to use on all multiplayer custom games only. There would be an option to disable it for custom games as well. Players could create build order guides that bring up specific reminders and post them on Bnet for others to download and learn from. The builds can be ranked by degree of difficulty or suggested rating/ladder ranking. This would give new players and easier way to transition into the part of the game that others enjoy the most. Once you can start to see yourself improving the game becomes addictive. Right now, players hit a wall too fast and just give up to play new games that have more familiar concepts.. | ||
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Anomi
Sweden149 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:56 ref4 wrote: how the fuck did Blizzard killed BW? That game is great don't get me wrong but it is like what 10 years old now? No sponsors will want to sponsor BW now because they can't showcase their top-end gaming spec and gears because hell BW can be run with a fucking toaster it's so old. The lack of LAN in BW means Blizzard can't pull the plug and black list tournament IP's, so tell me, how was BW killed by Blizzard? Don't make arguments w/o any research. Blizzard pretty much told the press that OGN/MBC was holding out illegal tournament which is a huge turn off to sponsors. And by suing MBC, he pretty much ended the game channel because the MBC HQ didn't want to go into ESPORT anymore because of this fiasco, thus effectively ending BW's 2nd line of hope. Subsequently, after the departure of MBCGame, teams gave up hope because they have seen little to no hope in the industry anymore, namely Hwaseung Oz and WeMade Fox (which also terminated their other relations to esport). This whole deal was sparked by Blizzard. This had lead to sponsors being more and more unwilling to sponsor the tournaments. Moreover, the recent OSL at the TVing's semifinal, Mike M. (the president of Blizzard Ent.) pretty much said "Oh yeah thanks a lot to BW and OGN for paving the road of progaming but stop toying around now because it really is the time to transition to SC2." For the next time, don't be pretentious. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On October 19 2012 08:04 mindspike wrote: How's that working for BW fans? If SC2 continues on a downward decline there will be nothing to watch. Well BW went 8 or so years of everyone saying it's dead so I imagine we have about 6 or so more years before we are actually dead and transition into the new game just like what happened to bw! | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On October 19 2012 08:37 Anomi wrote: The grass is always greener on the other sides No wonder the BW community complained about BW and thought SC2 was awesome! wait what | ||
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