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The thing that does bother me with the tones in some of these threads I felt resonated well with some things Apollo said on sotg about how there is a fine balance between criticism to make the game better and us building bad marketing for the game.
Starcraft 2 is a successful e-sport because of the fans and players, and because of Blizzard. They make the game and promote it but most of the promotion that built the current scene was done by the community and individual content providers and passionate fans. We don't always do things the right way, and sure as hell Blizzard does not either. But we need to come together on this. Everyone of us here who loves e-sports and want sc2 to succeed need to realize one thing. WE and BLIZZARD are on the same team here, the game will only succeed when both work as a team. The same goes for the other games.
This is not us against Blizzard but Blizzard/sc2 fans vs Riot/LoL etc.
We need to find a good balance between pointing out to Blizzard what things needs to be done better, while also not filling the internet with "hots suck, sc2 will die" threads because we are doing terrible marketing for the game. Also, we need to work even harder to promote the game. People promoted sc2 like crazy back in the early days. We knew that Steppes of War and Blistering Sands were HORRIBLE maps but we still promoted the game with all of our hearts because we knew that eventually that would be sorted. This is also the time to work on making more community content to keep promoting the game.
If the problem is lack of casual appeal then we need to make more content tuned to casuals. These are interesting times and there is room for healthy competition in this industry. We need to realize though that we are not on the sidelines either waiting for Blizzard to make sc2 the best e-sports game. We are in the competition having to work for our game.
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On October 19 2012 09:16 VanGarde wrote:
The thing that does bother me with the tones in some of these threads I felt resonated well with some things Apollo said on sotg about how there is a fine balance between criticism to make the game better and us building bad marketing for the game.
Starcraft 2 is a successful e-sport because of the fans and players, and because of Blizzard. They make the game and promote it but most of the promotion that built the current scene was done by the community and individual content providers and passionate fans. We don't always do things the right way, and sure as hell Blizzard does not either. But we need to come together on this. Everyone of us here who loves e-sports and want sc2 to succeed need to realize one thing. WE and BLIZZARD are on the same team here, the game will only succeed when both work as a team. The same goes for the other games.
This is not us against Blizzard but Blizzard/sc2 fans vs Riot/LoL etc.
We need to find a good balance between pointing out to Blizzard what things needs to be done better, while also not filling the internet with "hots suck, sc2 will die" threads because we are doing terrible marketing for the game. Also, we need to work even harder to promote the game. People promoted sc2 like crazy back in the early days. We knew that Steppes of War and Blistering Sands were HORRIBLE maps but we still promoted the game with all of our hearts because we knew that eventually that would be sorted. This is also the time to work on making more community content to keep promoting the game.
If the problem is lack of casual appeal then we need to make more content tuned to casuals. These are interesting times and there is room for healthy competition in this industry. We need to realize though that we are not on the sidelines either waiting for Blizzard to make sc2 the best e-sports game. We are in the competition having to work for our game.
Best post /end thread
You might make your own thread elaborating on this post. Good job VanGarde 
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I feel any hype for HoTS. I'm not excited and even if I get a beta key.. i wouldn't be all so excited at all.
Those new units, I would say any decent custom map maker can recreate them with the current WoL map maker.
I think we as a community should get together, get some awesome unit ideas and upgrades and add them ourselves and force it to rise in popularity. Heck we could even make a whole new race (I was so expecting Xel Naga / Hybrid zerg-protoss race but o well  ).
Like Dota 1, we can add new units, balance ourselves.. We have the power but we just rely too much on Blizzard at the moment...
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On October 19 2012 09:16 VanGarde wrote:
The thing that does bother me with the tones in some of these threads I felt resonated well with some things Apollo said on sotg about how there is a fine balance between criticism to make the game better and us building bad marketing for the game.
Starcraft 2 is a successful e-sport because of the fans and players, and because of Blizzard. They make the game and promote it but most of the promotion that built the current scene was done by the community and individual content providers and passionate fans. We don't always do things the right way, and sure as hell Blizzard does not either. But we need to come together on this. Everyone of us here who loves e-sports and want sc2 to succeed need to realize one thing. WE and BLIZZARD are on the same team here, the game will only succeed when both work as a team. The same goes for the other games.
This is not us against Blizzard but Blizzard/sc2 fans vs Riot/LoL etc.
We need to find a good balance between pointing out to Blizzard what things needs to be done better, while also not filling the internet with "hots suck, sc2 will die" threads because we are doing terrible marketing for the game. Also, we need to work even harder to promote the game. People promoted sc2 like crazy back in the early days. We knew that Steppes of War and Blistering Sands were HORRIBLE maps but we still promoted the game with all of our hearts because we knew that eventually that would be sorted. This is also the time to work on making more community content to keep promoting the game.
If the problem is lack of casual appeal then we need to make more content tuned to casuals. These are interesting times and there is room for healthy competition in this industry. We need to realize though that we are not on the sidelines either waiting for Blizzard to make sc2 the best e-sports game. We are in the competition having to work for our game.
In crisis, there is opportunity. Will that opportunity be wasted, or realized?
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god I hope they listen I want sc2 to be the number one e-sport again
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On October 19 2012 09:16 VanGarde wrote:
The thing that does bother me with the tones in some of these threads I felt resonated well with some things Apollo said on sotg about how there is a fine balance between criticism to make the game better and us building bad marketing for the game.
Starcraft 2 is a successful e-sport because of the fans and players, and because of Blizzard. They make the game and promote it but most of the promotion that built the current scene was done by the community and individual content providers and passionate fans. We don't always do things the right way, and sure as hell Blizzard does not either. But we need to come together on this. Everyone of us here who loves e-sports and want sc2 to succeed need to realize one thing. WE and BLIZZARD are on the same team here, the game will only succeed when both work as a team. The same goes for the other games.
This is not us against Blizzard but Blizzard/sc2 fans vs Riot/LoL etc.
We need to find a good balance between pointing out to Blizzard what things needs to be done better, while also not filling the internet with "hots suck, sc2 will die" threads because we are doing terrible marketing for the game. Also, we need to work even harder to promote the game. People promoted sc2 like crazy back in the early days. We knew that Steppes of War and Blistering Sands were HORRIBLE maps but we still promoted the game with all of our hearts because we knew that eventually that would be sorted. This is also the time to work on making more community content to keep promoting the game.
If the problem is lack of casual appeal then we need to make more content tuned to casuals. These are interesting times and there is room for healthy competition in this industry. We need to realize though that we are not on the sidelines either waiting for Blizzard to make sc2 the best e-sports game. We are in the competition having to work for our game.
The problem is that all/ almost all of our suggestions have been ignored. Blizzard has become incompetent and theirs not much we can do about it. SC2 has gotten more and more stale to the point where a lot of people have stopped playing, and Blizzard is doing nothing to fix it. I won't buy HoTS simply because I have stopped playing and moved on to more fun games - LoL and Dota2.
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On October 19 2012 10:20 jpak wrote:
In crisis, there is opportunity. Will that opportunity be wasted, or realized?
Well I for one don't believe that there is a crisis (unless an actual crisis is created by the constant whine threads causing so much bad publicity that the community in fact kills hots because of it)., I think this is a complete and total panicfest though over nothing but that said. It does not have to be a crisis because the rules of competition are the same. We still need to work to keep improving and spreading the word so to speak if we want to be a big deal in the e-sports scene.
Even though I think everything is fine in a sense, maybe all of this could serve as a reminder for people to not take e-sports for granted. 2 years ago this did not exist, then Blizzard made a great game and we the community turned it into a sport. Maybe we've started to take it for granted that you can watch IPL around the clock or pick from a number of top level tournaments and maybe people needed a little reminder to get them back to work at promoting the game.
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On October 19 2012 10:32 FoeHamr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 09:16 VanGarde wrote:
The thing that does bother me with the tones in some of these threads I felt resonated well with some things Apollo said on sotg about how there is a fine balance between criticism to make the game better and us building bad marketing for the game.
Starcraft 2 is a successful e-sport because of the fans and players, and because of Blizzard. They make the game and promote it but most of the promotion that built the current scene was done by the community and individual content providers and passionate fans. We don't always do things the right way, and sure as hell Blizzard does not either. But we need to come together on this. Everyone of us here who loves e-sports and want sc2 to succeed need to realize one thing. WE and BLIZZARD are on the same team here, the game will only succeed when both work as a team. The same goes for the other games.
This is not us against Blizzard but Blizzard/sc2 fans vs Riot/LoL etc.
We need to find a good balance between pointing out to Blizzard what things needs to be done better, while also not filling the internet with "hots suck, sc2 will die" threads because we are doing terrible marketing for the game. Also, we need to work even harder to promote the game. People promoted sc2 like crazy back in the early days. We knew that Steppes of War and Blistering Sands were HORRIBLE maps but we still promoted the game with all of our hearts because we knew that eventually that would be sorted. This is also the time to work on making more community content to keep promoting the game.
If the problem is lack of casual appeal then we need to make more content tuned to casuals. These are interesting times and there is room for healthy competition in this industry. We need to realize though that we are not on the sidelines either waiting for Blizzard to make sc2 the best e-sports game. We are in the competition having to work for our game.
The problem is that all/ almost all of our suggestions have been ignored. Blizzard has become incompetent and theirs not much we can do about it. SC2 has gotten more and more stale to the point where a lot of people have stopped playing, and Blizzard is doing nothing to fix it. I won't buy HoTS simply because I have stopped playing and moved on to more fun games - LoL and Dota2.
That to me is a very out of touch understanding of the evolution of Starcraft 2. It is human psychology though to be blind to steady changes for the better. Anyone who has been here since beta and actually sits back to think about all the things that have been done to improve the game can't honestly say that Blizzard is incompetent and ignores all we say. That is at best a really non constructive and subjective statement.
Yes if you pick just one problem that has not been solved and focus only on that, then you might get the impression that they are doing nothing but if you actually take the time to look at the whole picture you would see how wrong that is. Also almost every part of your statement is projection, you can't possibly know that A) the game has gotten objectively too stale, B) That a significant number of people have stopped playing and because of that reason and C) that blizzard is doing nothing about it if it were the case.
All those 3 points seem personal. You think the game is stale, you stopped playing because of that and because you are frustrated with how things are you just assume and assert that they are doing nothing about it. You are projecting your own subjective opinions by asserting them as universal fact.
On October 19 2012 10:31 Ethoex wrote:
god I hope they listen I want sc2 to be the number one e-sport again
It still is...
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On October 19 2012 10:45 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 10:32 FoeHamr wrote:On October 19 2012 09:16 VanGarde wrote:
The thing that does bother me with the tones in some of these threads I felt resonated well with some things Apollo said on sotg about how there is a fine balance between criticism to make the game better and us building bad marketing for the game.
Starcraft 2 is a successful e-sport because of the fans and players, and because of Blizzard. They make the game and promote it but most of the promotion that built the current scene was done by the community and individual content providers and passionate fans. We don't always do things the right way, and sure as hell Blizzard does not either. But we need to come together on this. Everyone of us here who loves e-sports and want sc2 to succeed need to realize one thing. WE and BLIZZARD are on the same team here, the game will only succeed when both work as a team. The same goes for the other games.
This is not us against Blizzard but Blizzard/sc2 fans vs Riot/LoL etc.
We need to find a good balance between pointing out to Blizzard what things needs to be done better, while also not filling the internet with "hots suck, sc2 will die" threads because we are doing terrible marketing for the game. Also, we need to work even harder to promote the game. People promoted sc2 like crazy back in the early days. We knew that Steppes of War and Blistering Sands were HORRIBLE maps but we still promoted the game with all of our hearts because we knew that eventually that would be sorted. This is also the time to work on making more community content to keep promoting the game.
If the problem is lack of casual appeal then we need to make more content tuned to casuals. These are interesting times and there is room for healthy competition in this industry. We need to realize though that we are not on the sidelines either waiting for Blizzard to make sc2 the best e-sports game. We are in the competition having to work for our game.
The problem is that all/ almost all of our suggestions have been ignored. Blizzard has become incompetent and theirs not much we can do about it. SC2 has gotten more and more stale to the point where a lot of people have stopped playing, and Blizzard is doing nothing to fix it. I won't buy HoTS simply because I have stopped playing and moved on to more fun games - LoL and Dota2. That to me is a very out of touch understanding of the evolution of Starcraft 2. It is human psychology though to be blind to steady changes for the better. Anyone who has been here since beta and actually sits back to think about all the things that have been done to improve the game can't honestly say that Blizzard is incompetent and ignores all we say. That is at best a really non constructive and subjective statement. Yes if you pick just one problem that has not been solved and focus only on that, then you might get the impression that they are doing nothing but if you actually take the time to look at the whole picture you would see how wrong that is. Also almost every part of your statement is projection, you can't possibly know that A) the game has gotten objectively too stale, B) That a significant number of people have stopped playing and because of that reason and C) that blizzard is doing nothing about it if it were the case. All those 3 points seem personal. You think the game is stale, you stopped playing because of that and because you are frustrated with how things are you just assume and assert that they are doing nothing about it. You are projecting your own subjective opinions by asserting them as universal fact. Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 10:31 Ethoex wrote:
god I hope they listen I want sc2 to be the number one e-sport again It still is...
Ok, so I challenge you to enumerate on the various things Blizzard has done? I'm honestly at a loss here trying to think of anything groundbreaking recently. A year ago they came out and proclaimed, "WE LOVE ESPORTS." What has changed since then? Icefrog alone puts more visible effort and passion into DOTA2 than the entire staff at Blizzard.
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On October 19 2012 09:16 VanGarde wrote:Also, we need to work even harder to promote the game. People promoted sc2 like crazy back in the early days. We knew that Steppes of War and Blistering Sands were HORRIBLE maps but we still promoted the game with all of our hearts because we knew that eventually that would be sorted.
And now we're not so sure... Any reasonable person should be not so sure, and essentially lying just because it's SC2 is ridiculous. Viewership is dropping, relatively simple fixes are still "coming soon" two years down the road, the cracks in the game design are showing more and more, the future looks bleak, and HotS isn't very impressive. That's the situation we're in. I wouldn't say SC2 is going to die in the coming years just because I want Blizzard to work extra hard for me, it's because I think it's reasonably likely to happen given the track record and how HotS is shaping up to be.
As far as bad marketing, I actually don't care. I'd love to see SC2 succeed, but it's not going to succeed by looking away from the problems and hoping that it gets sorted out eventually. Anyone new to the game would also see the problems and come to the same conclusion.
It's all up to Blizzard. Blizzard has waited two years to touch the game outside of little patches, and now that we see what they've been working on, it's very disappointing. I think a lot of the people who have been hoping up until this point has had their faith broken. HoTS is probably going to be a good expansion, but it's also probably going to be too little too late. Many people are going to take it at face value (without further hopes), and with expectations of the neglected two years. I'm guessing it won't meet those expectations, and I'm guessing that SC2 will again be a struggling esport (as it is currently) within half a year.
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Feel free to add a list of actual suggestions that have also been passed to Blizzard that has not been enacted. Numerous patch changes first of all have come as a response to community feedback, the community complained about the very small maps early on, the maps were removed, we wanted tournament maps into the map pool and since then there have always been at least one non blizzard map in the map pool. Right now we have four. We wanted name changes and while announcing that we would get a service for that in hots they gave out an extra free name change in the meantime, we asked for chat channels in game and they gave us chat channels. People complained over how the custom game system was working and they made a complete overhaul.
In fact most of the hots units as designed initially were to fill roles that the community specifically asked for.
Blizzard does clearly listen to suggestions and desires from the community. They might not get the solutions right at first, and they might not fix everything we want. More importantly this is also a development process with a pipeline. There is a latency between them deciding to do something and us seeing it in the game so a lot of things we are whining about might already be in the works too. Ofcourse a lot of the "suggestions" from the community comes in the forms of threads like this that is a whinefest spread over numerous pages where there might be an actual solid piece of suggestion once per ten pages. Criticism from a thread like this is definitely not going to reach Blizzard.
So far I have yet to actually hear a sensible suggestion that Blizzard has blatantly turned down without giving a reason for it. On most accounts they either do something, announce that they tend to do something or explain why they won't make a certain change.
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On October 19 2012 11:12 KoA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 09:16 VanGarde wrote:Also, we need to work even harder to promote the game. People promoted sc2 like crazy back in the early days. We knew that Steppes of War and Blistering Sands were HORRIBLE maps but we still promoted the game with all of our hearts because we knew that eventually that would be sorted. And now we're not so sure... Any reasonable person should be not so sure, and essentially lying just because it's SC2 is ridiculous. Viewership is dropping, relatively simple fixes are still "coming soon" two years down the road, the cracks in the game design are showing more and more, the future looks bleak, and HotS isn't very impressive. That's the situation we're in. I wouldn't say SC2 is going to die in the coming years just because I want Blizzard to work extra hard for me, it's because I think it's reasonably likely to happen given the track record and how HotS is shaping up to be. As far as bad marketing, I actually don't care. I'd love to see SC2 succeed, but it's not going to succeed by looking away from the problems and hoping that it gets sorted out eventually. Anyone new to the game would also see the problems and come to the same conclusion. It's all up to Blizzard. Blizzard has waited two years to touch the game outside of little patches, and now that we see what they've been working on, it's very disappointing. I think a lot of the people who have been hoping up until this point has had their faith broken. HoTS is probably going to be a good expansion, but it's also probably going to be too little too late. Many people are going to take it at face value (without further hopes), and with expectations of the neglected two years. I'm guessing it won't meet those expectations, and I'm guessing that SC2 will again be a struggling esport (as it is currently) within half a year.
The game was in MASSIVELY worse state in WoL beta than it is now. The reason a lot of people do not recognize this is because we live in an age of spoiled kids who feel entitled to everything. All of the things Blizzard has done to improve the game, the massive improvements in balance that has taken place is just completely lost on some people. The second they add something it is on to the next complaint. Some people will just never be satisfied. Then out of all the people complaining there are also a lot of people who were never happy from the beginning and will never be happy because they wanted a different game.
Neither did I suggest that anyone should neglect actual issues with the game, actual issues should be brought up and they usually are. Not by "OMG SC2 WILL BE A DEAD GAME IN A YEAR" threads because guess what the only thing they accomplish is? New potential players who come to TL and see the front page spammed with threads declaring the death of the game may be turned off from it.
It is also surreal to hear people use the argument that sc2 is a struggling e-sport as an argument, while hoisting LoL and dota2 as the new successors who are in no way doing any better.
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On October 19 2012 11:22 VanGarde wrote:
Feel free to add a list of actual suggestions that have also been passed to Blizzard that has not been enacted. Numerous patch changes first of all have come as a response to community feedback, the community complained about the very small maps early on, the maps were removed, we wanted tournament maps into the map pool and since then there have always been at least one non blizzard map in the map pool. Right now we have four. We wanted name changes and while announcing that we would get a service for that in hots they gave out an extra free name change in the meantime, we asked for chat channels in game and they gave us chat channels. People complained over how the custom game system was working and they made a complete overhaul.
In fact most of the hots units as designed initially were to fill roles that the community specifically asked for.
Blizzard does clearly listen to suggestions and desires from the community. They might not get the solutions right at first, and they might not fix everything we want. More importantly this is also a development process with a pipeline. There is a latency between them deciding to do something and us seeing it in the game so a lot of things we are whining about might already be in the works too. Ofcourse a lot of the "suggestions" from the community comes in the forms of threads like this that is a whinefest spread over numerous pages where there might be an actual solid piece of suggestion once per ten pages. Criticism from a thread like this is definitely not going to reach Blizzard.
So far I have yet to actually hear a sensible suggestion that Blizzard has blatantly turned down without giving a reason for it. On most accounts they either do something, announce that they tend to do something or explain why they won't make a certain change.
Wha....? So Blizzard hasn't actually addressed any of the gameplay centric suggestions from the community and has opted to give us hack jobs of BroodWar units in HOTS. That's what I'm getting out of your post. You have some seriously rose tinted glasses on my friend... tons of legitimate suggestions have been ignored without the slightest explanation. I could list them all but then I'd just be reiterating this entire thread.
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On October 19 2012 11:31 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 11:22 VanGarde wrote:
Feel free to add a list of actual suggestions that have also been passed to Blizzard that has not been enacted. Numerous patch changes first of all have come as a response to community feedback, the community complained about the very small maps early on, the maps were removed, we wanted tournament maps into the map pool and since then there have always been at least one non blizzard map in the map pool. Right now we have four. We wanted name changes and while announcing that we would get a service for that in hots they gave out an extra free name change in the meantime, we asked for chat channels in game and they gave us chat channels. People complained over how the custom game system was working and they made a complete overhaul.
In fact most of the hots units as designed initially were to fill roles that the community specifically asked for.
Blizzard does clearly listen to suggestions and desires from the community. They might not get the solutions right at first, and they might not fix everything we want. More importantly this is also a development process with a pipeline. There is a latency between them deciding to do something and us seeing it in the game so a lot of things we are whining about might already be in the works too. Ofcourse a lot of the "suggestions" from the community comes in the forms of threads like this that is a whinefest spread over numerous pages where there might be an actual solid piece of suggestion once per ten pages. Criticism from a thread like this is definitely not going to reach Blizzard.
So far I have yet to actually hear a sensible suggestion that Blizzard has blatantly turned down without giving a reason for it. On most accounts they either do something, announce that they tend to do something or explain why they won't make a certain change. Wha....? So Blizzard hasn't actually addressed any of the gameplay centric suggestions from the community and has opted to give us hack jobs of BroodWar units in HOTS. That's what I'm getting out of your post. You have some seriously rose tinted glasses on my friend... tons of legitimate suggestions have been ignored without the slightest explanation. I could list them all but then I'd just be reiterating this entire thread.
You talk about tinted glasses while claiming that in the current iteration of Sc2 Blizzard has ignored all of the suggestions of the players and just forced upon us their interpretation of everything. Feel free to list all of the suggestions that are universally held by the community that have been ignored completely. I am not talking about suggestions like a group of people who want the siege tank smart fire to be gone because it would make the game harder because there are so many suggestions like that which are no where near held universally by the community,
It is obvious to anyone that all of the initial hots units were designed to fill roles that the community had demanded, the problem is that in many cases the solutions were badly implemented or now related to a problem that had been solved by the meta game.
The shredder and then the mine was clearly created because there was a time when terrans were complaining a lot about being too pinned in tvz because of an inability to deal with constant runby's. The mine and the warhound and the battle hellion were all created with the intent of making mech viable in tvp, another thing that had been complained about constantly, ultra charge was clearly a response to the consensus that ultras were completely useless in zvt. Now you can derail this by starting to state what is wrong with each solution but that was not the question.
There is also a difference between wanting the game radically redesigned at the core level and other suggestions. There are a lot of people who want sc2 to be a very different game, mostly ex bw players who are dissatisfied with the way sc2 works. That is fine and all but this group is never going to be happy because they want a different game alltogether. These are the same people who complained during WoL beta and will show up for these threads over and over to skew the impression of dissatisfaction. People are entitled to think that the entire design of sc2 is just wrong but that is obviously not going to change and you can't use that to call sc2 evolution a failure because then you are using the term failure to mean "game not being the kind of game I want it to be". Surely to someone who wants halo to be an mmofps, halo is a huge failure, for anyone wanting WoW to be a text based rpg it has been a colossal failure and years of development later Blizzard has still ignored that suggestion.
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There's no bad publicity people. There's nothing that's posted around here that people around TL don't already know. How many new players come around, see threads about long ignored complaints and decide to stop playing at THIS POINT in the game's life?
Might be bad for sponsors, sure, but a shitty game is going to hurt hell of a lot more in the long term. If it takes some mordant tongue and cynical negativity to get something done, great. If this result in a quicker death if something that is heading toward a terminal condition anyway, great. This is chemo. I hope it works because I really want a worthy successor to BW just like everybody else.
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Even though I (amateurishly) compete in tournaments, I still think that the custom skins for units would be a cool addition, and I am not sure why this hasn't been implemented.
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On October 19 2012 11:55 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
There's no bad publicity people. There's nothing that's posted around here that people around TL don't already know. How many new players come around, see threads about long ignored complaints and decide to stop playing at THIS POINT in the game's life?
Might be bad for sponsors, sure, but a shitty game is going to hurt hell of a lot more in the long term. If it takes some mordant tongue and cynical negativity to get something done, great. If this result in a quicker death if something that is heading toward a terminal condition anyway, great. This is chemo. I hope it works because I really want a worthy successor to BW just like everybody else.
What you are describing is constructive criticism. You are not describing ranging "OMG THE GAME IS DEAD" threads. Today is a viral market, you start spreading the unfounded rumor of the death of Starcraft 2 and before you know it you have succeeded in creating a self fulfilling prophecy. Venting is not solving anything, actual discussion threads with good suggestions on what should be done is what we need. I really hope that the people who think that there is no harm in claiming a starcraft 2 crisis, when there is no data to suggest it works in marketing.
THIS IS WHAT WE NEED:
On October 19 2012 12:01 KookyMonster wrote:
Even though I (amateurishly) compete in tournaments, I still think that the custom skins for units would be a cool addition, and I am not sure why this hasn't been implemented.
NOT THIS:
On October 19 2012 10:32 FoeHamr wrote:
The problem is that all/ almost all of our suggestions have been ignored. Blizzard has become incompetent and theirs not much we can do about it. SC2 has gotten more and more stale to the point where a lot of people have stopped playing, and Blizzard is doing nothing to fix it.
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On October 19 2012 12:05 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 11:55 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
There's no bad publicity people. There's nothing that's posted around here that people around TL don't already know. How many new players come around, see threads about long ignored complaints and decide to stop playing at THIS POINT in the game's life?
Might be bad for sponsors, sure, but a shitty game is going to hurt hell of a lot more in the long term. If it takes some mordant tongue and cynical negativity to get something done, great. If this result in a quicker death if something that is heading toward a terminal condition anyway, great. This is chemo. I hope it works because I really want a worthy successor to BW just like everybody else. What you are describing is constructive criticism. You are not describing ranging "OMG THE GAME IS DEAD" threads. Today is a viral market, you start spreading the unfounded rumor of the death of Starcraft 2 and before you know it you have succeeded in creating a self fulfilling prophecy. Venting is not solving anything, actual discussion threads with good suggestions on what should be done is what we need. I really hope that the people who think that there is no harm in claiming a starcraft 2 crisis, when there is no data to suggest it works in marketing. THIS IS WHAT WE NEED: Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 12:01 KookyMonster wrote:
Even though I (amateurishly) compete in tournaments, I still think that the custom skins for units would be a cool addition, and I am not sure why this hasn't been implemented. NOT THIS: Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 10:32 FoeHamr wrote:
The problem is that all/ almost all of our suggestions have been ignored. Blizzard has become incompetent and theirs not much we can do about it. SC2 has gotten more and more stale to the point where a lot of people have stopped playing, and Blizzard is doing nothing to fix it.
We tried option A for a while. When that failed, we were left with option B.
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On October 19 2012 12:23 FoeHamr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 12:05 VanGarde wrote:On October 19 2012 11:55 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
There's no bad publicity people. There's nothing that's posted around here that people around TL don't already know. How many new players come around, see threads about long ignored complaints and decide to stop playing at THIS POINT in the game's life?
Might be bad for sponsors, sure, but a shitty game is going to hurt hell of a lot more in the long term. If it takes some mordant tongue and cynical negativity to get something done, great. If this result in a quicker death if something that is heading toward a terminal condition anyway, great. This is chemo. I hope it works because I really want a worthy successor to BW just like everybody else. What you are describing is constructive criticism. You are not describing ranging "OMG THE GAME IS DEAD" threads. Today is a viral market, you start spreading the unfounded rumor of the death of Starcraft 2 and before you know it you have succeeded in creating a self fulfilling prophecy. Venting is not solving anything, actual discussion threads with good suggestions on what should be done is what we need. I really hope that the people who think that there is no harm in claiming a starcraft 2 crisis, when there is no data to suggest it works in marketing. THIS IS WHAT WE NEED: On October 19 2012 12:01 KookyMonster wrote:
Even though I (amateurishly) compete in tournaments, I still think that the custom skins for units would be a cool addition, and I am not sure why this hasn't been implemented. NOT THIS: On October 19 2012 10:32 FoeHamr wrote:
The problem is that all/ almost all of our suggestions have been ignored. Blizzard has become incompetent and theirs not much we can do about it. SC2 has gotten more and more stale to the point where a lot of people have stopped playing, and Blizzard is doing nothing to fix it. We tried option A for a while. When that failed, we were left with option B.
Wow the world must be so simple when you can just assert things with nothing to back it up at all.
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In Blizzard's defense, the casual player's ladder anxiety is kind of illogical. If they don't want to play the game competitively, then they should feel no need to care for their ladder ranking. Whichever "crazy" strategy they want to try, the ladder will still put them in a position to make it an even match.
Of course, it doesn't seem to work this way. I think Blizzard could benefit from a ladder where no one knows their rankings, but they still receive fair matches. Last I heard, they plan to put something like this in HOTS. So, I feel like they are trying to address the issue of ladder anxiety, and I don't think people should be so judging them in hindsight for not handling it earlier.
The custom game scene is a completely different story.
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EPT
