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YaShock
Hungary119 Posts
On October 18 2012 18:52 bLah. wrote: lol @ "RIP sc2" and "sc2 wont make it till LofV". Last I checked there were still 800x more content and tournaments than I can follow in my freetime so yea, talking about dying game. Maybe you should look at progress and not at the current state | ||
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chao
Germany21 Posts
I don't care about customizable decals or paid name changes, I don't even play the game. I just watch it. HotS has to change how deathballs work, it shouldn't be optimal to do nothing all game and then gather all your stuff in a group and throw it at the enemy. | ||
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MastaKilla
Scotland23 Posts
On October 18 2012 01:27 IdrA wrote: im not sure if its what destiny's aiming for but you can have a difficult, competitive game and still have a good casual experience. competitive players dont need their hand held by the interface, theyre going to go into the game. go to the ladder. play the game. all they need is for the actual 1v1 portion of the game to be difficult enough that it can be a legit competition. casual players are the ones who'll get scared off if things arent easy and fun and intuitive since they can just as easily go play the flavor of the month shooter or adventure game that's tailored to them. the problem happens when blizzard tries to do this shitty middle ground where they emphasize competitive play but then try to make it easy enough that non competitive players can do it "well" Completely agree with this | ||
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YaShock
Hungary119 Posts
Absolutely agreed | ||
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hobbidude
Canada171 Posts
And blizzard isn't getting the hint when pros players or map makers are openly, in public, telling them how idiotic they really are. I mean the 2 highly quality map makers that actually work for years to get their melee maps into the league which actually surpassed even blizzards own design have quit because of this bs. And then pros are going out called David Yim an idiot because instead of actually addressing any real issues at their core, he took the skilless way out and just made it easily by dumbing it down. Even talking to the blizzard devs team they are clueless about the company and barely recognize key names even in their own company. Like i've said already, Blizzard has gone so down hill i would pay more to have staff let go than i would for hots. What's worse is blizzard has been stonewalling about changes that are "required" for protoss. Granted changing an entire race in the middle of wol is an acceptable excuse, but now that we're at an expansion its premium time to flip anything you need to. Slinging people along to LOV isn't going to work. | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On October 18 2012 18:39 Elvin wrote: Original designers are long gone. It's been a few years. It's sad that Blizzard had to make 3 shitty games before people realized that (And he will make more). Starcraft 2 was rotten in it's core in the beginning. Blizzard ignored those problems and now they just sow what they reaped. R.I.P SC2 2010-2012. It was a good run. What is the 3rd shitty game? | ||
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msl
Germany477 Posts
I have absolutely no interest in playing SC2 multiplayer yet I love watching it. The reason you need to attract casual players (IMHO) is twofold: 1) Eyeballs 2) Snap up the more competativ minded player for your player base. IMO that's just a given percentage of 1). If you have a game with a large player base a certain percentage will be "Hardcore" For 1) you don't need the player to play the game (in the sense of multiplayer/ladder), just to understand it. And here BW/SC2 is far superior to DOTA(esque) games. Two armies fighting is easy to understand. My 6-year old understands whats going on when he catches a glimpse of a stream and finds it exiting. (Quote: THE ALIENS ARE KILLING THE MONSTERS! COOL (PvZ obv.)) And in the department of "Eyeball Aquisition" Blizzard can do something: Make the Single Player better/good/exciting to play! Provide new missions every now and then.Not in the sense of "Release an expansion" a la HotS, but just give away a free to play SP mission every few weeks. A great Campaign gets people excited. Free stuff gets them to come back. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
My bet its wow, only the biggest MMO ever (altough it went to the drain with cata) | ||
Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
 . Might be nostalgia, but SC2 just didn't seem to recreate that experience for me. | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On October 18 2012 19:22 Assirra wrote: My bet its wow, only the biggest MMO ever (altough it went to the drain with cata) I am not sure its shitty game. It has own merits. | ||
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
Pretty much sums up where SC2 is going | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On October 18 2012 19:05 chao wrote: Sc2 is just boring to watch right now, I watched bw for years and watched sc2 from the beta. Nearly every game now is deathball into gg. Nobody wants to see that. I switched to mainly watching LoL because every game is different, even the picks & bans phase is exciting. I don't care about customizable decals or paid name changes, I don't even play the game. I just watch it. HotS has to change how deathballs work, it shouldn't be optimal to do nothing all game and then gather all your stuff in a group and throw it at the enemy. While I still do watch sc2 content from time to time, I do agree with this a bit. SC2 is slow paced from a spectator standpoint. If someone fast expands, we might not see any action for 10 minutes. That doesn't really produce good content for viewers. I think the game needs to be changed in ways that will speed up the overall tempo of the game to make it more exciting for viewer spectating. | ||
Xantos
Germany187 Posts
Some unsorted thoughts: 1. Build your own Strength TeamLiquid is an excellent example of how to build your own strength & qualities & fan-retention power - instead of hoping for the deus-ex-machina savings from a big company like Blizzard. Despite BroodWar having had rough years outside of Korea, it became a bigger and better site than any other game community I know. Where is the TL (in this quality & depth) of Counter Strike? Where is it even for DotA1? 2. Bake a larger cake instead of fighting for the Crumbs Obviously LoL is an awesome game - otherwise, it would not draw in such an audience. But it must not harm SC2 at all - rather see it as an ally in the quest to make eSports a sustainable scene & business model. 3. Embrace Creativity, Mods, Maps, Gametypes My favourite negative example here would be the Unreal Tournament community years ago. When UT2004 came out, it had an awesome vehicle mod (Onslaught), which was quite suitable for competitive play, awesome to watch and very beginner friendly. And the guys that played these games obviously still respected awesome players in UT 1on1 - even admired them. Even though it was not the game type they played. What did the scene do? Reject it! For them, only 1on1 & 4on4 were the king's disciplines. Even the "Instagib CTF" and "1on1" scenes seemed to kinda dislike each other - instead of thinking: "Awesome, how diverse the Unreal universe is - they all help to build a large followership for this Unreal eco system." 4. Learn from the Best Why do casters such as Take or players like Grubby or TLO still draw so many viewers - even for "random" games? Because they are genuinely passionate, talkative and really try to build a great experience for their viewers. Yes, their numbers might also be slightly slower than 9 months ago - but they crumbled much less than e.g. (EG - ho ho) those of Idra. I as a "spectator only" guy (I played my 15,000 games of BroodWar, I never played SC2 for safety reasons  ) think they are showing that with smarts, passion and a love for detail you can still build and retain an audience in SC2.Points 1 + 4 come down to: "Think about what the community / you as an individual player / caster / organiser can do." - Be creative, make experiments. Try new things. New maps. New mods. - Engage with your audience. Talk to them. Ask them what they like & love. I think the SC/SC2 community has so much potential. The power lies in the fan base, in the community, in the players, in the casters, in the organisers. They can make things happen. We can improve the SC2 experience - we should not wait for Blizzard to do it for us. | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On October 18 2012 19:33 Orcasgt24 wrote: GOMTV Presents LoL IPL5 Pretty much sums up where SC2 is going From spectator's viewpoint I still prefer SC2 over LoL. Eventhough I am a LoL player. | ||
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aliquis
Austria38 Posts
I would without a second thought donate money if need be if the community were able to come to a consens on what we want and create a mod or something and give it to blizzard. | ||
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Xantos
Germany187 Posts
Why did so many Korean girls watch StarCraft:BroodWar? Because it is possible to follow the game flow & recognize both tense and awesome situations - without having really played the game. E.g. a reaver shuttle - or a full medivac - dodging beeing seen & making a harass is a concept that is genuinely understandable. Same counts for principles such as flanking, outnumbering, uphill battles etc.pp. (Btw one of the reasons why I didn't like the removal of defender advantage on high ground from BW to SC2.) A similar reason is what makes football so successful: yes, it can be played everywhere by everyone (compared to say baseball or cricket which makes you need equipment etc.), but it's also "easy to get" as a spectator. I remember a WC3 game where Grubby lost because he passed by a merchant and forgot to buy a new invulnerability potion. That is a good example for why WC3 was harder to spectate - a lot of things were "hidden." It's also why I think that for spectators, BW/SC2 are much better than say LoL, DotA etc. Yes - they have more engaged players. But SC2 has the power to engage guys like me or Korean girls - people who never played the game. That's why I think making the game more casual player friendly might be an option - but it's not critically relevant for me. That's why I vote for improving spectatability - by having great players, great interviewers (kudos to 2GD, I now get you), great casters, great formats, great coverage, great communities. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4355 Posts
On October 18 2012 19:15 hobbidude wrote: The post is so on point and cuts right to the core. Blizzard is or is going to hurt badly as they're severily damaged many of the things they had going for them ecpecially their reputation. It's safe to say that blizzard titles are no longer a "must buy". I think the issue here is Activision pulling the strings and demanding more $ from Blizzard now that WoW subscription base is winding down after releasing way back in 2004.Activision has more influence than Blizzard mouthpieces are willing to admit. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4355 Posts
On October 18 2012 19:22 Assirra wrote: My bet its wow, only the biggest MMO ever (altough it went to the drain with cata) WoW was an amazing game the first couple years then they ruined it with the expansions and patches by making it far too casual friendly (halving experience needed to level, killing twinking in bgs, telling you where to go to do quests and finally getting rid of the mana bar in mists....WoW = a sad shell of what it used to be) | ||
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Trumpstyle
Sweden114 Posts
I still play some team games with my friends though. Also I think people should stop praising Valve so much, you guys haft to look at recent games they released, Portal 2 and CS: GO is games completely irrelevant today. CS: GO was released recently and is nowhere as big SC2 was at release and I think they somewhat similar as they both were big e-sports titles. Portal 2 has sold less copies than SC2 and that game was out on all platforms. People saying Blizzard is lucky Riot or Valve is not into RTS, I say let them come and try. | ||
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Razorspine
New Zealand29 Posts
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