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On October 18 2012 13:29 Mackus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 12:59 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On October 18 2012 12:32 Mackus wrote:
Hi guys just a quick suggestion - If Blizzard scrapped the 200/200 deathballs would you be happy with that and that's it beside the new Units? You missed the point. The 'deathball' isn't the reason the casuals are being turned off the game. If anything, getting rid of the deathball will make it harder for casuals (they can't 1a anymore). Blizzard have said from day #1 that the game should be easy to learn but hard to master and it's still the case right now, yes there's alot of highlighting issues which aren't being addressed but the majority of people are just bandwagoning without a legitimate reason, if you want the game to grow - Bitching about the game is gonna repel viewers away. I love the game but right now knowing the community are too busy half-assed about something in 2 years time and it's really off-putting :/
Destiny enumerated some reasons why casuals were being turned off the game. Deathballs wasn't one of them. Most of the discussion here hasn't been about deathballs. Your post was a derail. This thread isn't the place for that discussion.
Agree with you on the negativity of the community though. But this isn't just another ol' bitching thread. Destiny made some good points.
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Posting my thoughts in the sea of posts:
I agree with Destiny. Specifically, I had a friend with whom I used to play tons of WC3 and some BW. While I played a good deal of 1v1, he never did. When we played together, we'd play team games (which are terrible in SC2) or UMS maps. Even though he never played 1v1 ladder, we would both enjoy downloading professional/high level vods/replays and watch them for entertainment.
We picked up SC2 the day it came out. He ended up playing for a couple weeks than quit because the custom game system was so bad and team games were boring. SC2 was just another 60 dollar 'meh' release and a waste of money for him. Because he had no interest in ANY aspect of the game, 1v1, team, or UMS, he never really got into the esports side of things and eventually went to playing LoL and watching a LoL tournament occasionally.
I played SC2 for a while longer. I ended up using his account as a second laddering account. Eventually I got bored, and quit playing 1v1 ladder and ended up just worker rushing bronzies for shits while I watched TV or a stream. I think, ultimately, SC2 does not capture players' imaginations like BW or WC3 did. It just doesn't have that spark. Occasionally, I would get bored and play a few ladder games, but each time I grew tired of it again and wondered why I even got the idea to play in the first place.
Like a lot of people, I got myself all hyped and pumped up for the new Blizzard game, thinking it would be the big chance for us in the USA to have an esports scene like Korea did for BW. All that hype made me blind to the fact that SC2 is a mediocre game when compared to its successors. It's not as good competitively, and it's not as good for casuals. I know a lot of people still love the game, but as for me and all the people I used to play BW/WC3 with, well, we all play LoL occasionally now.
Been thinking about giving Dota2 a shot, because valve seems to be doing everything that Blizz or Riot are doing and more, and doing it better.
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On October 18 2012 13:44 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 13:29 Mackus wrote:On October 18 2012 12:59 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On October 18 2012 12:32 Mackus wrote:
Hi guys just a quick suggestion - If Blizzard scrapped the 200/200 deathballs would you be happy with that and that's it beside the new Units? You missed the point. The 'deathball' isn't the reason the casuals are being turned off the game. If anything, getting rid of the deathball will make it harder for casuals (they can't 1a anymore). Blizzard have said from day #1 that the game should be easy to learn but hard to master and it's still the case right now, yes there's alot of highlighting issues which aren't being addressed but the majority of people are just bandwagoning without a legitimate reason, if you want the game to grow - Bitching about the game is gonna repel viewers away. I love the game but right now knowing the community are too busy half-assed about something in 2 years time and it's really off-putting :/ Destiny enumerated some reasons why casuals were being turned off the game. Deathballs wasn't one of them. Most of the discussion here hasn't been about deathballs. Your post was a derail. This thread isn't the place for that discussion. Agree with you on the negativity of the community though. But this isn't just another ol' bitching thread. Destiny made some good points.
Deathballs were brought up somewhere in this thread and I agree with them, it shouldn't matter to "casuals" whether they're controlling a 100 supply army or a 200 supply army, it's part of the learning process of the game. If I wanted to get 200 supply army press A and click and see what happens I probably should be playing Shogun Total War rather than SC2 - I think maps rather than the game in some cases are to blame however, watching a PvP or a TvT both meching on Whirlwind is painfully boring to watch for example and then someone recently mentioned Steppes of War which isn't the solution either
Excuse the frustration in the previous post but it's more to do with people not being constructive like why is the game bad, give examples and how they can fix it instead of jumping on the bandwagon
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I believe destiny might have created a giant wave of support not for him but for the points he makes, lets just believe big name blizzard will actually listen this time instead of ponder and do nothing because they dont give a fck. we dont need titan, we want cat and mouse back in our games, I want to join channels and meet new people who enjoy the games I play.
Remember: cat and mouse, cat and mouse crystal cpu games, or for WC3 Dota! LOL that still lives but comon blizzard listen to us please we all know your going under. we all know you knew u lost the dota scene when valve won the rights for its name. Blizzard allstars? you serious please im pretty sure we all know what abilities jim thrall and etc will have... and that you will make it? LETs have us the community show you our crazy ideas!
I really hope there is a company down to make the next RTS that is free to play or something that allows the casual gamer to play cat and mouse once more...
PS blizzard you remember when you thought you were going to make those "premium maps?" that creators would be making money off them? i dont see those, and yet valve and riot make easy money off items and that the designers of the items actually get some profit back.
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So much stupidity around here. When bw got popular ums were shit,same with wc3, dota 2 interface is terrible and proper matchmaking doesnt even exist, but people still played sc/wc3 and play dota 2 because the games are freaking good, unlike sc2.
People talking how an arcade would change anything make me laugh.
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On October 18 2012 13:23 shizaep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 13:17 TheTenthDoc wrote:On October 18 2012 13:02 nevermindthebollocks wrote:On October 18 2012 12:54 shizaep wrote:On October 18 2012 12:32 Mackus wrote:
Hi guys just a quick suggestion - If Blizzard scrapped the 200/200 deathballs would you be happy with that and that's it beside the new Units? One does not simply "scrap" the 200/200 deathballs. A lot of fundamental changes (such as"worse" pathing, which Blizzard said is a no-no) would have to be made in order for gameplay to shift to a less deathball-centered direction. i think simple buffs to aoe attacks could do it. expand colssi and more damage for siege and larger fungals and quicker nukes and ht storms that move and banes that can leap forward and people will stop moving things in a single ball So you're saying that in order to kill the deathball we should buff all the units that make their race's deathballs powerful? Don't see that working out. Look, people need to realize that their insistence on long drawn-out macro games on huge maps is completely at odds with killing deathballs. That's just how it is, you're not going to have both without some incredible redesigning in pathing and resource accumulation going on. At least games on Steppes were fun to watch. But they sure as hell were not fun to play. And literally never winning as zerg was also a bit of a bummer. There are multiple directions for SC2 to head in but bringing back Steppes of War is not one of them.
Yeah, god knows no one enjoyed IdrA's cross-map hydra-spine push, or Fruitdealer/Nestea 7 roach rushes, baneling busts, etc. Even Xel Naga Caverns is tiny compared to "modern" maps.
I can honestly say Steppes of War and Desert Oasis produced the most memorable SC2 games for me (both in personal and spectator play) because they were actually interesting.
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On October 18 2012 14:14 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 13:23 shizaep wrote:On October 18 2012 13:17 TheTenthDoc wrote:On October 18 2012 13:02 nevermindthebollocks wrote:On October 18 2012 12:54 shizaep wrote:On October 18 2012 12:32 Mackus wrote:
Hi guys just a quick suggestion - If Blizzard scrapped the 200/200 deathballs would you be happy with that and that's it beside the new Units? One does not simply "scrap" the 200/200 deathballs. A lot of fundamental changes (such as"worse" pathing, which Blizzard said is a no-no) would have to be made in order for gameplay to shift to a less deathball-centered direction. i think simple buffs to aoe attacks could do it. expand colssi and more damage for siege and larger fungals and quicker nukes and ht storms that move and banes that can leap forward and people will stop moving things in a single ball So you're saying that in order to kill the deathball we should buff all the units that make their race's deathballs powerful? Don't see that working out. Look, people need to realize that their insistence on long drawn-out macro games on huge maps is completely at odds with killing deathballs. That's just how it is, you're not going to have both without some incredible redesigning in pathing and resource accumulation going on. At least games on Steppes were fun to watch. But they sure as hell were not fun to play. And literally never winning as zerg was also a bit of a bummer. There are multiple directions for SC2 to head in but bringing back Steppes of War is not one of them. Yeah, god knows no one enjoyed IdrA's cross-map hydra-spine push, or Fruitdealer/Nestea 7 roach rushes, baneling busts, etc. Even Xel Naga Caverns is tiny compared to "modern" maps. I can honestly say Steppes of War and Desert Oasis produced the most memorable SC2 games for me (both in personal and spectator play) because they were actually interesting.
People enjoyed those matches because they had zerg winning something.
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The only thing I have beef against SC2 an Diablo 3 is Blizzard make social interaction in their games as painful as stabbing you penis with a stapler.
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It's pretty clear that Blizzard started slipping the moment they let Activision in.
Diablo 2, War3 and SCBW are some of the best videogames I've ever experienced, hell even WoW was particularly excellent at release (god knows I hate MMOs though). Expansions used to be great too, BW changed absolutely everything in SC1, so did TFT with War3, so did TBC with WoW...
Comparing the golden days to what Blizzard does now is incredibly painful, Diablo 3 is, quite simply put, a legal and scandalous thievery and SC2 was designed around the likes of... Dustin Browder. Don't get me wrong I liked some of the early 00's Command&Conquers, but putting this guy in charge of what's supposed to be the 'new RTS esports platform' is suicidal. He knows how to make for cool solo games, but when it comes to managing a community and being ahead of his time, he doesn't know jack shit about what he's doing, and the sad truth is that most of us community members would be better at his job than he is, he doesn't get the game, he doesn't get the community and he doesn't get esports.
SC2 is going to die off if people don't protest properly. What the faggots at Activision want is money, stop giving them money and they'll consider making changes.
User was banned for this post.
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Can somebody PLEASE mention how Blizzard should promote tournaments within the UI ? They have recently started to do their small news posts in that slider image about upcoming events, but where is the live stream teaser link??? There are a crapton of starcrafters that play 4v4's and don't know jack about the MLG's and ROG's, but if it was in the Sc2 interface they would click on it and watch. This one simple change could build the scene a lot imo
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I really wish the discussion could re-focus on what Blizzard can do to bring in more players, and convert them into more viewers.
Making a better game is certainly interesting to think about, but it's not going to bring people back and it's not going to cause the nearly 2 order of magnitude increase in viewers that SC2 needs to compete even though it might make people stay a little bit longer.
Currently about 2.5 million have played games of the multiplayer (50% of the approx 5 mil sales) A big tournament gets about 50,000 viewers that's about 2% of people that have played the multiplayer are watching concurrently.
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On October 17 2012 13:55 ROOTT1 wrote:
if i took this much time to format his post then you best believe its an important topic
That's why you are the OP and not Destiny 
Interesting to see this come out relatively quickly after the SC2 world suffered a major shock with SlayerS disbanding.
Honestly though, I've lost interest in SC2 as well. It's just not fun always staying in Platinum, and playing by myself when all of my friends are on DOTA and LoL. I guess I'll play them soon too at this rate.
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On October 18 2012 14:32 QRhere wrote:
It's pretty clear that Blizzard started slipping the moment they let Activision in.
Diablo 2, War3 and SCBW are some of the best videogames I've ever experienced, hell even WoW was particularly excellent at release (god knows I hate MMOs though). Expansions used to be great too, BW changed absolutely everything in SC1, so did TFT with War3, so did TBC with WoW...
Comparing the golden days to what Blizzard does now is incredibly painful, Diablo 3 is, quite simply put, a legal and scandalous thievery and SC2 was designed around the likes of... Dustin Browder. Don't get me wrong I liked some of the early 00's Command&Conquers, but putting this guy in charge of what's supposed to be the 'new RTS esports platform' is suicidal. He knows how to make for cool solo games, but when it comes to managing a community and being ahead of his time, he doesn't know jack shit about what he's doing, and the sad truth is that most of us community members would be better at his job than he is, he doesn't get the game, he doesn't get the community and he doesn't get esports.
SC2 is going to die off if people don't protest properly. What the faggots at Activision want is money, stop giving them money and they'll consider making changes.
User was banned for this post.
I really don't understand why he got banned, I agree with every word he said. That's not bullshit, it's not stupid flaming or trolling, that's the truth
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On October 18 2012 15:02 YaShock wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:32 QRhere wrote:
It's pretty clear that Blizzard started slipping the moment they let Activision in.
Diablo 2, War3 and SCBW are some of the best videogames I've ever experienced, hell even WoW was particularly excellent at release (god knows I hate MMOs though). Expansions used to be great too, BW changed absolutely everything in SC1, so did TFT with War3, so did TBC with WoW...
Comparing the golden days to what Blizzard does now is incredibly painful, Diablo 3 is, quite simply put, a legal and scandalous thievery and SC2 was designed around the likes of... Dustin Browder. Don't get me wrong I liked some of the early 00's Command&Conquers, but putting this guy in charge of what's supposed to be the 'new RTS esports platform' is suicidal. He knows how to make for cool solo games, but when it comes to managing a community and being ahead of his time, he doesn't know jack shit about what he's doing, and the sad truth is that most of us community members would be better at his job than he is, he doesn't get the game, he doesn't get the community and he doesn't get esports.
SC2 is going to die off if people don't protest properly. What the faggots at Activision want is money, stop giving them money and they'll consider making changes.
User was banned for this post. I really don't understand why he got banned, I agree with every word he said. That's not bullshit, it's not stupid flaming or trolling, that's the truth
Pretty sure "Faggots at Activision" while you might agree with his assessment, is homophobic and why he got banned.
Edit: He's also a previously banned user.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On October 18 2012 15:02 YaShock wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:32 QRhere wrote:
It's pretty clear that Blizzard started slipping the moment they let Activision in.
Diablo 2, War3 and SCBW are some of the best videogames I've ever experienced, hell even WoW was particularly excellent at release (god knows I hate MMOs though). Expansions used to be great too, BW changed absolutely everything in SC1, so did TFT with War3, so did TBC with WoW...
Comparing the golden days to what Blizzard does now is incredibly painful, Diablo 3 is, quite simply put, a legal and scandalous thievery and SC2 was designed around the likes of... Dustin Browder. Don't get me wrong I liked some of the early 00's Command&Conquers, but putting this guy in charge of what's supposed to be the 'new RTS esports platform' is suicidal. He knows how to make for cool solo games, but when it comes to managing a community and being ahead of his time, he doesn't know jack shit about what he's doing, and the sad truth is that most of us community members would be better at his job than he is, he doesn't get the game, he doesn't get the community and he doesn't get esports.
SC2 is going to die off if people don't protest properly. What the faggots at Activision want is money, stop giving them money and they'll consider making changes.
User was banned for this post. I really don't understand why he got banned, I agree with every word he said. That's not bullshit, it's not stupid flaming or trolling, that's the truth
You can always look at the Ban Reason yourself...this guy is a previously banned user.
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On October 17 2012 14:01 Torte de Lini wrote:Formatting is subpar Even if Dota and LoL triumph over SC2 (which is already happening), Blizzard still has a dominance and no competition in the RTS scene, does that not matter? We're comparing two different genres on the premise of E-Sports, but Blizzard still has a hold on the players and scene. Not all, or even many, players will go to Dota and they like the scene and the community. That's enough for the game to still live with some tournaments, major events, etc. There are a lot of fundamental problems with the scene, Blizzard is at fault in-part, but I think we have a lot of internal issues too. Dota and LoL also suffer major problems within their respective scene that hinder their growth, but I can see how Blizzard is miles away from what Valve and Riot are suffering from.
I find myself watching less and less sc2 lately, i am pretty much only watching gsl and random dota instead of sc2 now. just feels so stale atm =S
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On October 18 2012 15:02 YaShock wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:32 QRhere wrote:
It's pretty clear that Blizzard started slipping the moment they let Activision in.
Diablo 2, War3 and SCBW are some of the best videogames I've ever experienced, hell even WoW was particularly excellent at release (god knows I hate MMOs though). Expansions used to be great too, BW changed absolutely everything in SC1, so did TFT with War3, so did TBC with WoW...
Comparing the golden days to what Blizzard does now is incredibly painful, Diablo 3 is, quite simply put, a legal and scandalous thievery and SC2 was designed around the likes of... Dustin Browder. Don't get me wrong I liked some of the early 00's Command&Conquers, but putting this guy in charge of what's supposed to be the 'new RTS esports platform' is suicidal. He knows how to make for cool solo games, but when it comes to managing a community and being ahead of his time, he doesn't know jack shit about what he's doing, and the sad truth is that most of us community members would be better at his job than he is, he doesn't get the game, he doesn't get the community and he doesn't get esports.
SC2 is going to die off if people don't protest properly. What the faggots at Activision want is money, stop giving them money and they'll consider making changes.
User was banned for this post. I really don't understand why he got banned, I agree with every word he said. That's not bullshit, it's not stupid flaming or trolling, that's the truth
pretty much, though he presented it wrong.
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The absolute fucking last thing SC2 needs is achievements that give you a competitive edge over your opponent, which destiny is referring to when he makes the LoL-comparison.
Players LOVE "building" towards something when they play. That's why people grind out games on League of Legends - they always earn points every game that they can put towards new champions or runes. There is no reason to play more than a few online games of Starcraft 2 before putting it down and being done with it. This is a HUGE FUCKING PROBLEM.
These points are called 'IP' and they serve no purpose in any 'real' game. A player with a larger champion pool, more runepages or more runes (all of which are only acquirable by IP or RP; the latter requiring you to invest real money into the game) will have a direct advantage over his opponents. Not only that, but you have to grind out approximately 200 games before you are 'level 30'. Not being level 30 means you do not have access to certain masteries and runes.
In LoL, you can put the best korean progamer on his very best champion but put him on an account that lacks essential runes (or isn't level 30) and he will lose hard against a random 1600 ELO player (comparable to a high diamond league sc2er). You cannot play against a Garen, Renekton, Nidalee and a whole lot of other champions without flat armor runes, if you start a ranked game and you have to lane against one of these you immediately ruin the game for the other 4 players on your team as there is no way you are going to come out even remotely even. This in turn provokes endless and partly justified rage from your teammates, for which they in turn get punished because LoL has a system that is called the tribunal which can punish you for the most retarded things (such as 'negative attitude', or even saying things such as 'gg easy' at the end of a game can be met with a 2-week ban. Calling someone a noob or saying he plays bad is reportable as well - they basically force you into a little faggot faery and turn their whole game into a lala-land with pink unicorns and rainbows over every chocolate waterfall where everything negative must be banished).
LoL does have skins, which grant you absolutely no advantage what-so-ever but does make your stuff look a lot cooler. This is totally fine and SC2 could easily implement this, but the last thing we need is a pay2win scenario that is currently going on in LoL.
GM league sc2 and 2k+ ELO LoL for reference.
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Well said Destiny.
What are they thinking over at Blizzard? sooner or later WoW will die, then what do they have? WoW 2? good luck.
Diablo 3 is a joke, I even tried the patch that came out the other day, 10 hours straight and not a single decent drop. What. The. Fuck. (250MF, MP1 if anyone cares) They really want me to spend real money on the auction so they can make a profit, don't they? fuck that
Starcraft 2 is just not living up to the hype, I'm a semi-casual gamer, I prefer watching others play via streams or in game in dota 2(can you imagine such a feature in a blizzard game?).
I'm good at games when I put in time just like anyone else, I'm master league level when I can be bothered to play the game, but I'm not enjoying it as much as I enjoyed BW or WC3.
Maybe log in and play a custom game? they are fun, right? I bet the top 10 maps are still the same as they were 6 months ago. Desert strike #1 I guess?
What's going on over at Blizzard? surely they can't be incompetent, they must have some motive.
Removing LAN, modding and even custom maps in sc2 is such a poor move.
Good luck hots, I'm not going to buy it, I'll be watching streams just fine without the game itself.
Not that I'm watching a lot of sc2 as of late when there are funnier games to watch, hell I don't even play LoL but I tune in when I see a 250k viewer stream on twitch.
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This "lala-land with pink unicorns and rainbows" you refer to is otherwise known as reality. Kids who call strangers "noobs" and "faggots" in the real world don't do so well.
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EPT
