EPTdo you really think sc2 will be dead? even if suddenly half the people stopped playing sc2 it still wouldnt be dead... who cares if we cant compete with dota or lol right now they are different games.
Destiny on where he thinks SC2 is heading. - Page 33
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
do you really think sc2 will be dead? even if suddenly half the people stopped playing sc2 it still wouldnt be dead... who cares if we cant compete with dota or lol right now they are different games. | ||
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Akta
447 Posts
Most(or all?) popular games and sports became popular because they were fun to play, starting with a design based completely on for example high level competitive play instead of "let's make a fun game" is probably almost always detrimental. With HotS it seems like Blizzard randomly picked a couple game play issues out of hundreds because they had to do SOMETHING to be able to, you know ... call it an expansion. What happened to simply trying to make the game more fun? The fear of making "big" changes is probably a part of the problem. If for some reason giving mothership to zerg instead of toss and BL's to toss instead of zerg would make the game a lot more fun they most likely still wont do it because they will probably end up having to do additional balance changes to make it work. Or why not the recent debate about gateway units etc and Protoss. Some things are design dead ends, like if you want a race's units to have a lot of raw power compared to other races cost vs cost wise while at the same time wanting the race to have the most powerful "gimmicks". Unless you want the race to have a severe macro disadvantage that just wont work. To illustrate: What if they gave zerg forcefields and warpins from overlords tomorrow, would that work without additional balance changes? A simple answer would be that current zerg units are too strong for that to be balanced. If they removed forcefields from protoss and for example made warp in tied to nexuses instead of pylons they could, and probably have to, give the Protoss units more raw power. Which is how a lot of people seem to want the Protoss race to be like. A beta should be perfect for trying "big" changes like that, there's nothing to be afraid of. But from what I've read they want to finish the new units first and to be honest, that design schedule makes no sense what so ever. Why waste time on balancing and making the new units work with the current units and abilities if you want to try changing current abilities and units anyway? Unless they of course actually don't plan on testing any bigger changes this beta... Which by the way makes me wonder how many people Blizzard had working full time on SC2 since the WoL release. To be blunt, if it's like 5 or more people(outside of people working on things like keeping the servers running and CS) their dev team does not seem to be very productive. To wrap things up, changes to make the game more fun to play(for everyone) might dwarf changes like removing a couple of Protoss gimmicks and fun does not seem to be on high on the dev priority list either. So starcraft will probably be about as fun as it is now until, for the better or worse, SC3 comes out. | ||
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LOLItsRyann
England551 Posts
On October 17 2012 22:42 TangYiChen wrote: SC2 streamers that used to get 6000+ viewers are struggling to keep 3000. The Day9 Daily used to have over 10,000 people watching it, but when I turned it on last night (for the first time in a while), he only had 3000. This exactly, and things like this. Dyrus gets 15-20k viewers regularly every single time he streams. The season 2 LoL finals, had around 900k stream viewers when all are added together (I've heard around). The WCS asia SC finals had 25k at max I think. I know the events are rather different but I still don't think there should be that much of a difference. I mean take any SC2 tourney. A dreamhack hasn't even been close to those figures. | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
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Excalibur
United States58 Posts
My name is Excalibur, and for those of you who don't know I am a global moderator at one of the last bastions of SC:BW custom content, StarEdit.Net, also known as SEN. As BW got older a lot of us over in customs had to watch a lot of fellow content sites like ours go under. The admins would mismanage the site, databases would crash or bug out, or inactivity would rise until the site was near dead. A lot of these things we had to deal with at home as well. However to this day we have continued to do what we've always done, make amazing content for the game we love. Destiny understands a lot of what made BW great. BW had a community, it had people coming together and interacting with each other. Channels were filled with clans, roleplayers, ladder players, customs players and makers, everyone had a space to find people with similar interests in the game and go talk to them. They could group up to play or share ideas about what to do in game. From log in, to the lobby, to in game, the community was together. We realize what the problems are, or so I think. As a community veteran, I've served in multiple clans as a regular member, officer, bot operator, leader, and everything inbetween. I've made maps for both melee and UMS, I've played every game mode, I've even made actual mods for BW which are seldom even discussed. Hell, we had to band together and make our own tools because Blizzard decided releasing the SC dev kit for us to use was never happening. Their map editor was so limited that things like SC Xtra Edit, Starforge, and SCMDraft had to be developed. That isn't even breaching the surface of the tools, the Graft tools, DatEdit, IceCC, and all the others that allowed us to create true mods as well. But I stand at a very familiar position. When sites like SC.org and others were given lines of communication with Blizzard, especially when SC2 beta started, SEN was left out in the cold. And I had no way to open a dialogue with Blizzard, to tell them that arguably the most innovative site in BW customs that allowed a place for map makers to develop some of the most innovative tools, trigger systems, and techniques still used in Battle.net today had been left out of the next generation of a game they had given so much to keep going. And that's where I feel we stand to this day. There is a gap between the people who kept BWs customs thriving and Blizzard, because no one outside Korea was given any credit for what they did. Perhaps because customs aren't profitable or perhaps Blizzard is just that out of touch with their players, but that happens when it takes you over a decade to follow up in a series. So how do we bridge the gap? How do we get their attention? How do we, who have made the tools, the maps, and the community gatherings that allowed BW to thrive outside of its Korean competitive scene get the ear of these developers, designers, and decision makers? I asked myself this a long while ago, and I still have no answer. Glad the whole topic is getting exposure over here as well. I know TL has probably never thought much of SEN, but we've always had a lot of respect for TL. I just hope we can get the changes we need for us guys over in customs to do what we've been doing in BW for over 10 years: Make amazing maps that bring the community together to play again and again. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
Yeah, well browder and company decided to completely ignore those things and do it their own way. There's a bajillion other reasons, those are just two examples of where they have failed and continue to fail. It's worse now because they purposely avoid anything related to brood war in development...you know, that highly successful game that basically started pro gaming. Would anyone not buy the game if vultures and spider mines came back? If there was a reaver would you say, "omg this is stupid, same game as SC1!" Seems to me like it would be a good idea to pay attention to a game that lasted over the course of 11-12 years rather than purposely design everything to be different from that game. | ||
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Kambing
United States1176 Posts
On October 17 2012 22:57 BriMikon wrote: I couldn't even convince one of my good friends to buy SC2 when it was 10$ at ToysRUs. My friends are more well off than I am, but I think that points to a relavent problem. A lot of the demographic for these esports games are young and not too rich. All of destiny's points I agree with and focusing on casual gamers playing UMS and gaining points to buy aesthetic upgrades. BW was an easy game to get people to buy because you could invite them over and show them a million different UMS maps to show Hey, buy this game and you get tons of games in one package. I still have plenty of hope by the time the 2nd expansion comes out though. I still argue that UMS is a broken concept with the proliferation of independent games. There are no clear incentives for developers to work on custom maps when they could be building their own game (sacrificing ease of use for platform independence and more creative freedom) with some other set of development tools. One thing you can argue is that if Blizzard really wants to put their eggs in the custom map basket, then it is providing clear, articulate reasons for developers to choose custom maps over everything else out there, and then providing large amount of support for said developers. However, I think that's far more effort than the return they could get out of it. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4329 Posts
On October 17 2012 23:01 aintz wrote: 1 sentence to sum it up: WE NEED LAN. 2 1/2 years since SC2 came out and we don't even have proper freaking clans yet with clantags.What the heck are Blizzard doing? Counting the $100 bills that keep rolling in? | ||
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Cypher177x
United States2 Posts
This post by Destiny sums up deep rooted complaints I have been hearing throughout the community. Star craft 2 is too lonely and unfriendly to all but the tip top "in crowd" who have teammates on Skype calls or are playing in a team house talking stat and friendly trash talking. This is why so many people just watch streams. Because it's a fun friendly place! When destiny is screaming "WHAT DO WE DO KYLE" and the chat is going crazy with BM and people giving conflicting (and usually wrong) advice it's a fun time! Bottom line even though the the UI is polished star craft is a... LONELY GREY color schemed, SCARY (not the good kind), INTIMIDATING game. This is %100 Blizzards fault and only Blizzard can fix this. Fix this and the community will take care of the rest! | ||
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
On October 17 2012 23:06 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: 2 1/2 years since SC2 came out and we don't even have proper freaking clans yet with clantags.What the heck are Blizzard doing? Counting the $100 bills that keep rolling in? They just don't have the technology yet... | ||
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Soulrivers
Sweden46 Posts
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DarkGeneral
Canada328 Posts
I don't mean to be rude but the only reason I still play SC2 is because of the ladder system. It is easy to use, it is fun and it is awesome. I am a casual player. | ||
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SilSol
Sweden2744 Posts
On October 17 2012 23:05 xsnac wrote: tbh the real problem i see in sc2 compared to any other games . is that is generating non addictive fun . and the interface sucks so much that you feel too lonley and will just quit the game . Yeah i think pretty much everyone feels "lonely" on battle.net 2.0! They need proper chat channels like in BW days! And clan support / LAN latency! | ||
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aLt)nirvana
Singapore846 Posts
On October 17 2012 23:06 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: 2 1/2 years since SC2 came out and we don't even have proper freaking clans yet with clantags.What the heck are Blizzard doing? Counting the $100 bills that keep rolling in? They are spending their progamers coding hours making silly things like the arcade or the "new interface" which failed to address any of the core problems which have been driving people away since day 1. The problem was they hired the xbox guy to design a PC interface based on his "credentials" which is ridiculous cause they just ended up going backwards. I dont get why they cant see the unanimous feedback from all around and just do something about it. Take a leaf out of valve's book please! Look how far their interface has come with DOTA2! And see how far backwards starcraft 2's has fallen. I seriously hope Blizzard hires the right person to fix their UI and their game. I feel they can be doing so much more because they are in the position to do so! They are just completely misallocating their resources. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
On October 17 2012 23:06 avilo wrote: You guys remember everyone telling blizzard the hard counter system is ridiculously bad for SC2 and they needed to not go that direction? You remember when we told them over and over about how much the high ground advantage made a difference in the game using terrain in SC1? Yeah, well browder and company decided to completely ignore those things and do it their own way. There's a bajillion other reasons, those are just two examples of where they have failed and continue to fail. It's worse now because they purposely avoid anything related to brood war in development...you know, that highly successful game that basically started pro gaming. Would anyone not buy the game if vultures and spider mines came back? If there was a reaver would you say, "omg this is stupid, same game as SC1!" Seems to me like it would be a good idea to pay attention to a game that lasted over the course of 11-12 years rather than purposely design everything to be different from that game. remember that time when everyone raged about the warhounds? yeah blizz removed that unit completely in the following patch. remember how everyone raged about how bad the tempest was? yeah blizz is constantly making improvements to the unit. give it time people, jeez the sky is falling fast! oh and clan support will be in Hots: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6893559814#6 SCII still needs alot of work, but Blizzard is going in the right directions imo. To address the long macro boring games that tend to happen these days: blame the maps. Bigger maps with easier to hold natural tend for longer games. And who made those maps? We, the community did. WE wanted the games to be long and boring. | ||
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HonorZ
France858 Posts
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RoarMan
Canada745 Posts
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stfouri
Finland272 Posts
Stop with the lan bs. Ok Lan can do the samething as making it f2p would do, people can download it for free from the internets. But, they won't do it before they have released the whole trilogy. Destiny seems to be a more of a attention wh*-* than anything else tbh, doomgloom all over the place. | ||
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DarthDronus
13 Posts
Gotta agree with the community here. SC2 would become a better esport if it is driven both by community websites and its developer, Blizzard. So far, the changes have caused further dissatisfaction to competitive and casual gamers. | ||
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SilSol
Sweden2744 Posts
On October 17 2012 23:16 DarthDronus wrote: I don't know what to say. The facts cited in the article are overwhelming. Blizzard really needs to step up on the changes in both WoL and HotS. Gotta agree with the community here. SC2 would become a better esport if it is driven both by community websites and its developer, Blizzard. So far, the changes have caused further dissatisfaction to competitive and casual gamers. Yeah Blizzard needs to be more involved with the community! Otherwise they are just doing their own thing! | ||
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