On October 13 2012 20:06 MrTortoise wrote: this is stupid.
Everyone everywhee in the world is getting WAY to easy to offend.
If he said that in an office people would laugh. Yet he is at work playing with people he knows
Getting arrested - lol. But nothing to do with sc2.
People watching other people need to remember that the point of voyeurism is not to be seen.
Actually if you were in the office and said I fucked a 14 year old i only like kids and milfs . I am sure people would laugh but if your boss heard im sure shit would go down.
Not true at all. That completley depends on where you works and who your boss is. Obviously.
Because of context.
could someone then try and cause trouble about it. Sure ... but they would be recognized as being a dick. Because everyone knows what the situation is. If it is true then its a police matter.
Its called being petty.
Its called knowing the time and the place to make such comments. Its called using your brain
On October 13 2012 20:03 aloT wrote: There is alot of young or naive people in here rushing to defend him as having some kind of internet right to say dumb things. If he was a professional in a sports league he would be referred to criminal prosecution at worst, or a sports body investigation at best. There are more instances of esports players saying inappropriate comments in a single month than the entire playerbase of the Premier League in a whole season, and they all use the internet to communicate too.
If you folks want esports to take off, you need to understand that people outside of 4chan do not automatically devalue every offensive comment just because it was written online. And it's not their problem. It's yours.
This sums up what i was trying to say . People have to stop saying ": that didn't offend me so its dumb it offended others"
I m offended by some stuff too but i would NEVER EVER try to force actions on the one who offended (if it wasnt personal) me. That is a HUGE difference. If you are offended, ok thats your opinion but dont be a dick and grab a pitchfork.
On October 13 2012 20:07 Incomplet wrote: Remember folks, just because something is a "joke" doesnt mean it isnt offensive or just a bad joke in general to others. And whatever goes in France is completely irrelevant, EG is an American team and so its American rules. Kiddies need to grow up and learn a little about how the real world works.
*people* take offense to things. The words themselves are not offensive because they aer out of context. It is *you* interpreteation of them that is choosing to take offense.
one word
Tolerance
another word that americans should be comfortable with
Freedom.
Another set of words - easily offended emos.
If a large enough group of people take offense to things then you have a problem which needs rectification. Tolerance is fine and good so is freedom but thats not what is being argued here.
EDIT: Also there is a thing called liberty that americans believe in , it operates under the harm principle
Harm principle : The harm principle holds that each individual has the right to act as he wants, so long as these actions do not harm others.
How can a written commetn cause harm?
It doesnt unless you take harm to a hyperbolic extreme. But if you want to operate on that then we shuold stop talking as everythign is absurd.
You now have to ask yourself if what you say is true
Then the world has no place for comedians. They are casuing harm. This is clearly not the place as satire is a very valuable tool in the world for contextualising things that peoplpe just assume ot be the case
(Ie like right now everyone seems to think being a whiny emo kiddy is cool).
Moreover you are saying that by walking around butt naked - which causes offense to m any that entire cultures are offensive. Moreover you are stating that the majority is always right because they are the majority.
That is plain offensive and is just thiny veiled racism - well if you want to consider text as causing harm that is.
To the people who think that making an effort to not be overly vulgar in conversation will mentally harm you: Giving some consideration to what you say in the presence of other people isn't just something that's required of a public figure, but simply civilized behavior. If you think civilized behavior contradicts your personality, maybe that is your problem.
Freedom of speech is first and foremost a political thing - the right to express your opinion on social and political issues that matter. It's not a right to pointlessly insult and offend without limit. If you phantasize about your basic human rights being violated each time something you don't like happens, you erode the concepts of those rights by inflational, arbitrary use.
Sure you're free to be a dick. People then are free to reject you, and they will, and rightfully so. None of that has anything to do with basic rights and freedoms.
I'm speaking generally here because some people's apparent belief that there should be no social codes of conduct at all and their abuse of the concept of freedom of speech annoy me. I don't condemn Stephano. If what we know is all that happened, it's a minor issue, he apologized and got punished and I'd say bygones. People in a thread like this contribute to making this a big deal rather than anything else. And I don't think his suspension is such a hard punishment. How tough would it be for you to be sent to Korea to play SC2 for a couple of weeks and to lose one month of salary when you have an otherwise lucrative contract and piles of money in the bank by the age of 19? Let's have him get his small punishment for a small offense and move on.
On October 13 2012 20:07 Incomplet wrote: Remember folks, just because something is a "joke" doesnt mean it isnt offensive or just a bad joke in general to others. And whatever goes in France is completely irrelevant, EG is an American team and so its American rules. Kiddies need to grow up and learn a little about how the real world works.
*people* take offense to things. The words themselves are not offensive because they aer out of context. It is *you* interpreteation of them that is choosing to take offense.
one word
Tolerance
another word that americans should be comfortable with
Freedom.
Another set of words - easily offended emos.
If a large enough group of people take offense to things then you have a problem which needs rectification. Tolerance is fine and good so is freedom but thats not what is being argued here.
EDIT: Also there is a thing called liberty that americans believe in , it operates under the harm principle
Harm principle : The harm principle holds that each individual has the right to act as he wants, so long as these actions do not harm others.
How can a written commetn cause harm?
It doesnt unless you take harm to a hyperbolic extreme. But if you want to operate on that then we shuold stop talking as everythign is absurd.
You now have to ask yourself if what you say is true
Then the world has no place for comedians. They are casuing harm. This is clearly not the place as satire is a very valuable tool in the world for contextualising things that peoplpe just assume ot be the case
(Ie like right now everyone seems to think being a whiny emo kiddy is cool).
comedians make jokes about raping 14 year old girls?
On October 13 2012 20:03 aloT wrote: There is alot of young or naive people in here rushing to defend him as having some kind of internet right to say dumb things. If he was a professional in a sports league he would be referred to criminal prosecution at worst, or a sports body investigation at best.
I doubt that any prosecutor would act because someone made a joke. If he actually did something illegal that would be different and the whole thing should be handled by the police.
On October 13 2012 20:03 aloT wrote: There is alot of young or naive people in here rushing to defend him as having some kind of internet right to say dumb things. If he was a professional in a sports league he would be referred to criminal prosecution at worst, or a sports body investigation at best. There are more instances of esports players saying inappropriate comments in a single month than the entire playerbase of the Premier League in a whole season, and they all use the internet to communicate too.
If you folks want esports to take off, you need to understand that people outside of 4chan do not automatically devalue every offensive comment just because it was written online. And it's not their problem. It's yours.
This sums up what i was trying to say . People have to stop saying ": that didn't offend me so its dumb it offended others"
I m offended by some stuff too but i would NEVER EVER try to force actions on the one who offended (if it wasnt personal) me. That is a HUGE difference. If you are offended, ok thats your opinion but dont be a dick and grab a pitchfork.
Like I said, I have passed zero judgement on Stephano , I don't think any differently of him . I never emailed sponsers etc. Also he is no longer representing himself he is also representing a business if you choose to work for them mind their rules.
On October 13 2012 20:07 Incomplet wrote: Remember folks, just because something is a "joke" doesnt mean it isnt offensive or just a bad joke in general to others. And whatever goes in France is completely irrelevant, EG is an American team and so its American rules. Kiddies need to grow up and learn a little about how the real world works.
*people* take offense to things. The words themselves are not offensive because they aer out of context. It is *you* interpreteation of them that is choosing to take offense.
one word
Tolerance
another word that americans should be comfortable with
Freedom.
Another set of words - easily offended emos.
If a large enough group of people take offense to things then you have a problem which needs rectification. Tolerance is fine and good so is freedom but thats not what is being argued here.
EDIT: Also there is a thing called liberty that americans believe in , it operates under the harm principle
Harm principle : The harm principle holds that each individual has the right to act as he wants, so long as these actions do not harm others.
How can a written commetn cause harm?
It doesnt unless you take harm to a hyperbolic extreme. But if you want to operate on that then we shuold stop talking as everythign is absurd.
You now have to ask yourself if what you say is true
Then the world has no place for comedians. They are casuing harm. This is clearly not the place as satire is a very valuable tool in the world for contextualising things that peoplpe just assume ot be the case
(Ie like right now everyone seems to think being a whiny emo kiddy is cool).
comedians make jokes about raping 14 year old girls?
Its their job to make jokes also depending on the content there are warnings and age restrictions. Adults paid money they know what they are getting into.
On October 13 2012 20:07 Incomplet wrote: Remember folks, just because something is a "joke" doesnt mean it isnt offensive or just a bad joke in general to others. And whatever goes in France is completely irrelevant, EG is an American team and so its American rules. Kiddies need to grow up and learn a little about how the real world works.
Basically a private joke is meant to remain frickin private. We shouldn't even be talking about it coz we're not supposed to have heard it. If everyone could focus on their own stuff and not try to lecture everyone, even if they have absolutely no legitimity ("kiddie need to grow up and learn about how the real world works".... LOL, Stephano knows exactly how this world works, just be an arrogant ass to get the buzz and the dollars), this world would a much more pleasant place to live in... It's not anyone's buisness anyway what is said between two friends. Their conversation being streamed was simply an unfortunate coincidence. I couldn't emphasize how outrageous and stupid this US-related habit to be concerned by shit you have no right to talk about is. Get over it, people say what they want, freedom of speech, you know, especially considering it was supposed to be a PRIVATE JOKE . The same people that throw a tantrum about an inside joke they are not even supposed to have heard don't give a crap about bombings in Irak, in Gaza, etc... I guess being lectured by those people don't make that much sense and is fucking hilarious.
On October 13 2012 08:34 shid0x wrote: That's kind of bullshit to me.
When you hire a player like stephano you know he WILL do stuff like that,stephano is a real buzzmaker and he enjoys it. Millenium had to face those kind of situations and even worse a lot and they didn't go apeshit for it. Seriously EG i'm dissapointed.
That is not the right way to look at a situation like that.
A criminal offense, or perhaps implying that he has/would, should not be swept under the rug because he's good at starcraft.
Fucking moronic.
I agree, cause if what he said is true, then he should be in jail, unless he was 14 years old at the time, and I don't know the minor laws in France
On October 13 2012 20:07 Incomplet wrote: Remember folks, just because something is a "joke" doesnt mean it isnt offensive or just a bad joke in general to others. And whatever goes in France is completely irrelevant, EG is an American team and so its American rules. Kiddies need to grow up and learn a little about how the real world works.
*people* take offense to things. The words themselves are not offensive because they aer out of context. It is *you* interpreteation of them that is choosing to take offense.
one word
Tolerance
another word that americans should be comfortable with
Freedom.
Another set of words - easily offended emos.
If a large enough group of people take offense to things then you have a problem which needs rectification. Tolerance is fine and good so is freedom but thats not what is being argued here.
EDIT: Also there is a thing called liberty that americans believe in , it operates under the harm principle
Harm principle : The harm principle holds that each individual has the right to act as he wants, so long as these actions do not harm others.
How can a written commetn cause harm?
It doesnt unless you take harm to a hyperbolic extreme. But if you want to operate on that then we shuold stop talking as everythign is absurd.
You now have to ask yourself if what you say is true
Then the world has no place for comedians. They are casuing harm. This is clearly not the place as satire is a very valuable tool in the world for contextualising things that peoplpe just assume ot be the case
(Ie like right now everyone seems to think being a whiny emo kiddy is cool).
comedians make jokes about raping 14 year old girls?
Its their job to make jokes also depending on the content there are warnings and age restrictions. Adults paid money they know what they are getting into.
are you serious? are you really serious? rofl you need to change your views on the world if you think making jokes about raping under-age kids is appropriate. What do you think would happen if a comedian made a joke about raping a 14 year old under age child?
Hmm this kind of shows you the vast differences in maturity levels in young kids like stephano and bling compared to older players. I'm mid 20s and joking about something like this would never even enter my head. There might be a cute young girl and I'll be like wow she's good looking and she looks way older than she really is but to message or say to a friend, "hey i just banged some under-aged girl" would never happen. It wouldn't even enter my head as to say something like that.
On October 13 2012 20:07 Incomplet wrote: Remember folks, just because something is a "joke" doesnt mean it isnt offensive or just a bad joke in general to others. And whatever goes in France is completely irrelevant, EG is an American team and so its American rules. Kiddies need to grow up and learn a little about how the real world works.
Basically a private joke is meant to remain frickin private. We shouldn't even be talking about it coz we're not supposed to have heard it. If everyone could focus on their own stuff and not try to lecture everyone, even if they have absolutely no legitimity ("kiddie need to grow up and learn about how the real world works".... LOL, Stephano knows exactly how this world works, just be an arrogant ass to get the buzz and the dollars), this world would a much more pleasant place to live in... It's not anyone's buisness anyway what is said between two friends. Their conversation being streamed was simply an unfortunate coincidence. I couldn't emphasize how outrageous and stupid this US-related habit to be concerned by shit you have no right to talk about is. Get over it, people say what they want, freedom of speech, you know, especially considering it was supposed to be a PRIVATE JOKE . The same people that throw a tantrum about an inside joke they are not even supposed to have heard don't give a crap about bombings in Irak, in Gaza, etc... I guess being lectured by those people don't make that much sense and is fucking hilarious.
*Banhammer hwaiting*
Makes inappropriate joke while representing company. Doesn;t take proper precautions Shit storm ensues.
On October 13 2012 20:06 MrTortoise wrote: this is stupid.
Everyone everywhee in the world is getting WAY to easy to offend.
If he said that in an office people would laugh. Yet he is at work playing with people he knows
Getting arrested - lol. But nothing to do with sc2.
People watching other people need to remember that the point of voyeurism is not to be seen.
Actually if you were in the office and said I fucked a 14 year old i only like kids and milfs . I am sure people would laugh but if your boss heard im sure shit would go down.
Not true at all. That completley depends on where you works and who your boss is. Obviously.
Because of context.
could someone then try and cause trouble about it. Sure ... but they would be recognized as being a dick. Because everyone knows what the situation is. If it is true then its a police matter.
Its called being petty.
Its called knowing the time and the place to make such comments. Its called using your brain
Well actually this entire thread is not about whether the comments should be made or not. Its about the resulting fallout from them.
You cannot change what has happened. That is the entire point. Its how you man up and deal with it.
Do you cry like a little girl or do you act like an adult, attempt to understand the situation and then engage in mob mentality with a pitchfork and cry like a girl ... oh oops sorry, let me try again. Do you act like a christian and turn the other cheek ... to gran your pitchform andf cry like a girl ... damn it sorry im really trying to rationalise attempting to ruin his career here.
Let me try again
Do you act like an adult, understand the situation ... and then decide to interpret something that is clearly a joke as a really serious matter there by turning games into something uber serious and sterile even during practise time?
If so then why are we making a really big deal out of it. It is something which shouldn't require a public response from EG it should be handled internally. But they cant do that. Why? Because everyone is crying like little girls and being all emo presumably because they have nothing better or more important to worry about.
Also the age thing is important .. I am in my 30's I would never make this joke. But i don't go around sacking people in my office for making jokes like this - because THEY ARE KIDS. And its very important that they act like kids.
On October 13 2012 20:07 Incomplet wrote: Remember folks, just because something is a "joke" doesnt mean it isnt offensive or just a bad joke in general to others. And whatever goes in France is completely irrelevant, EG is an American team and so its American rules. Kiddies need to grow up and learn a little about how the real world works.
*people* take offense to things. The words themselves are not offensive because they aer out of context. It is *you* interpreteation of them that is choosing to take offense.
one word
Tolerance
another word that americans should be comfortable with
Freedom.
Another set of words - easily offended emos.
If a large enough group of people take offense to things then you have a problem which needs rectification. Tolerance is fine and good so is freedom but thats not what is being argued here.
EDIT: Also there is a thing called liberty that americans believe in , it operates under the harm principle
Harm principle : The harm principle holds that each individual has the right to act as he wants, so long as these actions do not harm others.
How can a written commetn cause harm?
It doesnt unless you take harm to a hyperbolic extreme. But if you want to operate on that then we shuold stop talking as everythign is absurd.
You now have to ask yourself if what you say is true
Then the world has no place for comedians. They are casuing harm. This is clearly not the place as satire is a very valuable tool in the world for contextualising things that peoplpe just assume ot be the case
(Ie like right now everyone seems to think being a whiny emo kiddy is cool).
comedians make jokes about raping 14 year old girls?
Louis C.K is joking on how he would kill and beat his daughter because she makes him so mad sometimes. And other really harsh jokes.
In germany a political comedian was basically saying all catholic priests are sexually abnormal (volker pispers).
On October 13 2012 20:07 Incomplet wrote: Remember folks, just because something is a "joke" doesnt mean it isnt offensive or just a bad joke in general to others. And whatever goes in France is completely irrelevant, EG is an American team and so its American rules. Kiddies need to grow up and learn a little about how the real world works.
*people* take offense to things. The words themselves are not offensive because they aer out of context. It is *you* interpreteation of them that is choosing to take offense.
one word
Tolerance
another word that americans should be comfortable with
Freedom.
Another set of words - easily offended emos.
If a large enough group of people take offense to things then you have a problem which needs rectification. Tolerance is fine and good so is freedom but thats not what is being argued here.
EDIT: Also there is a thing called liberty that americans believe in , it operates under the harm principle
Harm principle : The harm principle holds that each individual has the right to act as he wants, so long as these actions do not harm others.
How can a written commetn cause harm?
It doesnt unless you take harm to a hyperbolic extreme. But if you want to operate on that then we shuold stop talking as everythign is absurd.
You now have to ask yourself if what you say is true
Then the world has no place for comedians. They are casuing harm. This is clearly not the place as satire is a very valuable tool in the world for contextualising things that peoplpe just assume ot be the case
(Ie like right now everyone seems to think being a whiny emo kiddy is cool).
comedians make jokes about raping 14 year old girls?
Its their job to make jokes also depending on the content there are warnings and age restrictions. Adults paid money they know what they are getting into.
are you serious? are you really serious? rofl you need to change your views on the world if you think making jokes about raping under-age kids is appropriate. What do you think would happen if a comedian made a joke about raping a 14 year old under age child?
Nope , i didn't condone that i wasn;t being specific on the jokes that they made. Never did i say making jokes about raping 14 year old was funny or appropriate in fact i argued this whole time that it wasn't and that he shouldn't of said it.
On October 13 2012 20:06 MrTortoise wrote: this is stupid.
Everyone everywhee in the world is getting WAY to easy to offend.
If he said that in an office people would laugh. Yet he is at work playing with people he knows
Getting arrested - lol. But nothing to do with sc2.
People watching other people need to remember that the point of voyeurism is not to be seen.
Actually if you were in the office and said I fucked a 14 year old i only like kids and milfs . I am sure people would laugh but if your boss heard im sure shit would go down.
Not true at all. That completley depends on where you works and who your boss is. Obviously.
Because of context.
could someone then try and cause trouble about it. Sure ... but they would be recognized as being a dick. Because everyone knows what the situation is. If it is true then its a police matter.
Its called being petty.
Its called knowing the time and the place to make such comments. Its called using your brain
Well actually this entire thread is not about whether the comments should be made or not. Its about the resulting fallout from them.
You cannot change what has happened. That is the entire point. Its how you man up and deal with it.
Do you cry like a little girl or do you act like an adult, attempt to understand the situation and then engage in mob mentality with a pitchfork and cry like a girl ... oh oops sorry, let me try again. Do you act like a christian and turn the other cheek ... to gran your pitchform andf cry like a girl ... damn it sorry im really trying to rationalise attempting to ruin his career here.
Let me try again
Do you act like an adult, understand the situation ... and then decide to interpret something that is clearly a joke as a really serious matter there by turning games into something uber serious and sterile even during practise time?
If so then why are we making a really big deal out of it. It is something which shouldn't require a public response from EG it should be handled internally. But they cant do that. Why? Because everyone is crying like little girls and being all emo presumably because they have nothing better or more important to worry about.
Also the age thing is important .. I am in my 30's I would never make this joke. But i don't go around sacking people in my office for making jokes like this - because THEY ARE KIDS. And its very important that they act like kids.
Becasue EG only acted on the complaints of the people EG would probably handle it internally except for the fact that the public knew about it .If its alright for kids to make joke's about raping younger kids and you think its okay to act like that i don't know where you are from
I'm disappointed by this decision by EG and will be completely boycotting their sponsors as a result of this. I will never knowingly buy any product supported by EG again.
Age of consent is a complicated and controversial issue. Stephano should be allowed to discuss this issue. Joking about the issue is one way of opening it up for discussion.
I realize that Stephano admitted that his statement was a vulgar joke made in poor taste, but I have to consider this as a confession obtained under duress which simply makes me even more disappointed in EG.
I'd like to protest against this decision by EG. Could I please be temp banned now, rather than having to make multiple expletive laden posts protesting against this decision to show my complete contempt for it.
EPT
