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On November 18 2013 10:17 Heartscry wrote:Ridiculously good stuff, isai such a complicated person
OMFG, I literally stayed up all night to watch the whole thing. I have played smash once or twice on a binge and only had a vague idea of its hardcore competitive scene. The characters are very interesting, and the presentation despite the epicly long runtime is brilliant.
About Sons of Starcraft I really enjoyed Artosis being foulmouthed shittalking about squirtle as they go out to cast, but also felt watching footage of Seed winning GSL that this whole thing I so ridiculously outdated that it puts a huge dent in my viewing enjoyment (to be fair this was to be expected due to the, ehem, slight delays in post production).
I really don't have any basis as to guessing why it took so long to finish the project but I have some experience in media production and if you don't have a clearly mapped out storyline to present then you will just end up with months of footage with no context to fit it in (and yes, "A documentary on Tastosis" in itself is a bit weak). I like those guys so I won't have a problem watching the next episodes but it's a shame it had to be messed up like this in the end.
In comparison the Smash bros movie, while dwelling a lot in the past and concentrating more or less on the "figureheads" still ties in neatly with the present state of the scene with footage of 2013 summer events.
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On November 18 2013 08:04 vesicular wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 04:22 JacobShock wrote:On November 18 2013 02:25 Copymizer wrote:
Everything this documentary brought about artosis and tasteless is the same stories i've heard countless of times from both of them and Day9. Nothing new to see if you've watched eSports the last 3 years.. But if you're new to it, I imagine it's very interesting indeed. If you're new to it, you have no idea WTF is going on because the story is all over the place. It's not even obvious what the film is about until maybe 20 mins in, and then you have no real clue why these two people are even important or why you should care. Compare this to the Smash doc, where you learn in the very first scene (by literally showing you) that there are people who play the game who are so severely better than everyone else it feels like cheating. Then you learn that the game was never supposed to be competitive, but various people from different areas of the world figured out interesting things about it that nobody knew and allowed them to be better than everyone else. They then introduce you to the first mechanic found, how it worked, and how tournaments built up around it, and then introduce you to the players who used these techniques to their advantage. Then you get into these players personality and their gaming history arc. Each one of these steps teaches the audience about the game, how it grew, its scene and it's personalities. SoS simply says "SC is hard", "SC is awesome", "I love this game so much". No mention why, no showing why, no reason to give people a sense of why this is true. If you can't show or prove this then people will not care about it. Especially people who are don't know much about the scene.
This was my problem with SoS. A whole bunch of talking heads. SHOW don't TELL. So you say SC is a beautiful game? Show us why.
The Smash Bros sucked me in in the first 2 minutes. SoS drags on for almost 20 minutes before something mildly interesting happens. In the documentary "Indie Game: the movie" you're drawn to a storyline right away when a programmer tries to find his game on the X-Box games store on the day it is supposed to be released and finds it is not there.
In this day and age with people having shorter attention spans, you really need to hook them in within the first 5 minutes at least, especially for media on the internet.
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On November 18 2013 11:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 02:25 Copymizer wrote:
Everything this documentary brought about artosis and tasteless is the same stories i've heard countless of times from both of them and Day9. Nothing new to see if you've watched eSports the last 3 years.. I thought Part 1 was really well done.
How low are your standards? The only thing he did well was conning people into believing he was anything more than a cameraman. The structure/planning/editing is so half-assed I can't fathom someone thinking this 'really well done' after 2 years and $40,000.
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On November 18 2013 22:34 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 11:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 18 2013 02:25 Copymizer wrote:
Everything this documentary brought about artosis and tasteless is the same stories i've heard countless of times from both of them and Day9. Nothing new to see if you've watched eSports the last 3 years.. I thought Part 1 was really well done. How low are your standards? The only thing he did well was conning people into believing he was anything more than a cameraman. The structure/planning/editing is so half-assed I can't fathom someone thinking this 'really well done' after 2 years and $40,000.
It's supposed to be a documentary about Artosis and Tasteless, and I think it did a good job of introducing their journeys, joys, and hardships surrounding Starcraft and Starcraft commentating. Obviously, there's going to be plenty of overlap with other, older stories (like Daily #100), but I think this first episode got the ball rolling and looks promising. I hope it elaborates on some of the stories that aren't as well-known, but I'm not going to be surprised if I've seen some of the content before (as I'm a regular on TL, and everything about Starcraft runs through this forum).
I can't comment on the time and money spent to produce this level of content, because I've never created something like this before. But maybe I just have lower standards than you.
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On November 18 2013 22:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 22:34 Scarecrow wrote:On November 18 2013 11:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 18 2013 02:25 Copymizer wrote:
Everything this documentary brought about artosis and tasteless is the same stories i've heard countless of times from both of them and Day9. Nothing new to see if you've watched eSports the last 3 years.. I thought Part 1 was really well done. How low are your standards? The only thing he did well was conning people into believing he was anything more than a cameraman. The structure/planning/editing is so half-assed I can't fathom someone thinking this 'really well done' after 2 years and $40,000. It's supposed to be a documentary about Artosis and Tasteless, and I think it did a good job of introducing their journeys, joys, and hardships surrounding Starcraft and Starcraft commentating. Obviously, there's going to be plenty of overlap with other, older stories (like Daily #100), but I think this first episode got the ball rolling and looks promising. I hope it elaborates on some of the stories that aren't as well-known, but I'm not going to be surprised if I've seen some of the content before (as I'm a regular on TL, and everything about Starcraft runs through this forum). I can't comment on the time and money spent to produce this level of content, because I've never created something like this before. But maybe I just have lower standards than you.
Also, I think people are vastly overestimating what 40k is going to produce over a 2 year period. It's going to be at lot of interviews and other stuff along those lines, especially if they are talking about the era before SC2. 40k does not equal time travel.
Still I want a directors cut with lower background music. It's my only beef with the production.
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Something that needs to be remembered is that they actually bought their equipment from that money, too. That should already take quite a bit, no? I'm not very knowledgeable about what equipment you need or they used and how much it costs, but I'd somewhat assume that it isn't cheap to buy all this stuff from scratch, it just sounds like quite a bunch of stuff "Purchasing equipment, lights, lenses, hard drives, gels, stands, umbrellas, light meter etc. "
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Calgary26004 Posts
You guys are tough. I didn't donate to this but I still thought it was good, not great, especially for an amateur .
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On November 19 2013 00:01 UmberBane wrote:
Something that needs to be remembered is that they actually bought their equipment from that money, too. That should already take quite a bit, no? I'm not very knowledgeable about what equipment you need or they used and how much it costs, but I'd somewhat assume that it isn't cheap to buy all this stuff from scratch, it just sounds like quite a bunch of stuff "Purchasing equipment, lights, lenses, hard drives, gels, stands, umbrellas, light meter etc. "
Yeah, go look up the cost of a camera lens and you will see that none of the professional grade stuff is cheap. And you can't have one lens, either. I don't think that he just wasted the money on flights and high priced hotels like some people are claiming. The final product is about what I expected, if I ignore then lack of communication and just view it on its own.
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On November 19 2013 00:09 Chill wrote:
You guys are tough. I didn't donate to this but I still thought it was good, not great, especially for an amateur .
Everyone is a film expert here :D
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On November 19 2013 00:27 HeeroFX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 00:09 Chill wrote:
You guys are tough. I didn't donate to this but I still thought it was good, not great, especially for an amateur . Everyone is a film expert here :D
Everyone is an expert on everything on the internet.
I thought part one was all right. Hoping for more home and work life of Dan and Nick, though.
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That smash bro docu is nice indeed, watching it right now.
It has a good storyline and it's about the competition, finding out who's best... which is what all these games are really about.
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On November 19 2013 00:27 HeeroFX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 00:09 Chill wrote:
You guys are tough. I didn't donate to this but I still thought it was good, not great, especially for an amateur . Everyone is a film expert here :D
Sure, I'm as skeptical of all the expert opinions on the film's technical merits, but that doesn't diminish the disappointment people feel over the finished product. Personally, I thought it was kind of boring, but the WCG segment started actually getting into things, so I'll keep watching to see what happens.
On November 17 2013 10:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 09:55 BlueFlames wrote:On November 17 2013 09:48 Craze wrote:
You're financing a person without legal liability that demands he produce and deliver a product to a certain standard and by a certain time. Kickstarter is a complete crapshoot, especially when you finance someone without significant prior work experience to which they can point and give an example of what they do.
Anyone with an ounce of business sense knows you don't invest in anything without some idea of what you're getting into. Anyone knows that, unless prominent community figures make adverdisement for it. You believe in their word, not the one that is starting it. Well, guess what, I don't think tasteless and artosis will do anything like this again. If anything, this's likely the last Esports documentary we will see for a long time. And tasteless and artosis are less likely to work with anyone who doesn't have a huge body of work. Live and learn son, live and learn.
Let's be honest, the only reason this doc was made was because Jeff Alejos grew up with the Plott brothers (says so right on the Kickstarter FAQ).
Then again Artosis did have that doc started about him for WCG 2005*, so maybe he would be willing to participate in another one.
* Funny story, that never got released / finished. There was a small fragment put up on youtube years later with some post-script for what everyone ended up doing, which actually made it pretty cool. But just goes to show how fragile indie projects are I suppose.
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On November 19 2013 03:41 Technique wrote:
That smash bro docu is nice indeed, watching it right now.
It has a good storyline and it's about the competition, finding out who's best... which is what all these games are really about.
I agree, it was really compelling, how the creator of the Smash Bros doc produced such quality content with just 9k in donations is amazing.
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On November 19 2013 00:09 Chill wrote:
You guys are tough. I didn't donate to this but I still thought it was good, not great, especially for an amateur .
Well, a lot of people are probably still sour about the lack of communication during the whole production process until the very last week or so, which was to be expected. Nothing less than a true masterpiece would've probably been able to quelch the flames. 
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I thought it was great. Very entertaining. I'm not sure why there are so many negative comments. Perhaps it makes some individuals feel like a better person if they put others down.
I'm excited for part 2.
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It was pretty good, nothing in my opinion that warrants so much hate. I hope they do clean up some of the sound cuts before the Netflix release, I'll probably wait to show friends this video until then. Still excited for the future parts!
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On November 19 2013 08:56 zyce wrote:
I thought it was great. Very entertaining. I'm not sure why there are so many negative comments. Perhaps it makes some individuals feel like a better person if they put others down.
I'm excited for part 2.
Oh god, i hate it when people go "you just love to hate other people and put them down" if you don't praise everything from the roof.
Read the arguments people use before you try to do that nonsense.
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I thought it was quite boring. 95% was "guys talking in front of camera", which never makes a good documentary.
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people are being so critical... I really enjoyed part one and can't wait for the next release. Sure its a little all over the place but its still very entertaining in my opinion. The whole WCG 2005 story is fascinating and needs to be a movie itself.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On November 19 2013 12:38 Immaterial wrote:
people are being so critical... I really enjoyed part one and can't wait for the next release. Sure its a little all over the place but its still very entertaining in my opinion. The whole WCG 2005 story is fascinating and needs to be a movie itself.
My guess is that it's less people being critical and more along the lines of people having high expectations and being pissed due to the lack of communication from the producer. For me, as I mentioned earlier, I didn't donate to this and in general, didn't care when it came out etc... so I found the first part was ok. Nothing special, just lots of footage, disorganized(mix of BW/SCII) and not much explanations on what the purpose of the doc is or what makes starcraft(which one?????) a beautiful game. I think the producer massively underestimated the task itself. I can't speak much for the cost and time though.
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EPT
