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I'd definitely think a match between Stephano and Flash would be interesting.
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Would be cool to see Jaedong and Stephano in the same group. JD has said he studies Stephano's play and I recall Smix saying that JD asked for Stephano's authograph at MLG.
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On September 14 2012 06:29 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 06:18 Condor Hero wrote:On September 14 2012 06:07 aristarchus wrote:On September 14 2012 06:01 NoobSkills wrote:On September 14 2012 04:57 aristarchus wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 14 2012 04:41 Morieris wrote:On September 14 2012 04:35 aristarchus wrote:
So I'm not surprised at all, but it's really disappointing to see the favorable treatment being given to Kespa players. 24 spots for Kespa, 6 for the rest of Korea? That's just a guarantee that no matter what the actual balance of skill is, 80% of the Koreans will be Kespa. There is absolutely no fairness-based justification for that. It's just Kespa throwing its weight around and MLG deciding to do whatever gets it the most viewers/money. That's how you run a reality TV show, not a legitimate sport.
I really think the community needs to start seeing starcraft as more of a sport. There's room for debate about some format details (separating qualifiers by region, for example), but no tournament that gives players advantages in the competition because of their fame or money or what company they work for should be seen as a "major" by the community.
Why are we really upset when Kespa boycotts GSL, but not upset at all when they push the other Koreans out of MLG? Are we really dumb enough that only pushing them 80% of the way out fools us? You do know MLG is partnered with Kespa, right? And that the event is called MLG vs Proleague. You also do realize this is a special event before the Fall Championship, which will once again be open to anyone who would like to play in it. MLG isn't pushing out non-Kespa players at all. They are putting this event on in an attempt to give people what they want to see, Kespa players in a legitimate tournament that involves non-Kespa players. They are pushing NA players with more spots most likely because it's an NA-based company, and it gives the NA players a chance to step up and legitimize themselves. There are 8 Koreans in Dallas group play already from Raleigh results, there will be more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the KR only online qualifier, and even more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the MvP program. So in fact, there are more Esports Federation players in group play with fullly paid trips than any other group/region of players. Sure, but those are based on the old results before the new system. If this continues, that percentage would obviously shift substantially over time. It's unfair to give one group of players an advantage in a competition. I don't care if there are three times as many ESF as Kespa players - if that happened in a system that was biased towards Kespa players, it means that the ESF player group as a whole deserves even more spots than that. No one is going to take MLG seriously as a sports-like competition if you don't take yourselves seriously first. Imagine if MLB gave the Yankees a 10 game handicap during the regular season because the owner of the Yankees refused to play under any other conditions. That's the same thing that's happening here, and the fact that the reaction against it isn't stronger is very good evidence that esports isn't a true sport yet. Please don't compare ESF players to the Yankees they don't have the money or the talent. Yes, this system will eventually bias the direction towards KESPA players and even now it does. So, what? Eventually KESPA will buy the talent off of the current ESF teams, so in the end the best players will be playing most regularly in MLG. I wasn't comparing ESF players to the Yankees - I was comparing Kespa to the Yankees. Read it again. If Kespa teams are better at business and get more sponsorship and so buy the best players form ESF teams by offering them better contracts and win out, then great. If they're able to make it so those players can't even get into most tournaments unless they join Kespa and then use their monopoly power to make those players accept worse salaries than they deserve, not so great. Teams are supposed to compete. They are supposed to compete through getting sponsorships and scouting better and ending up with better players. They are not supposed to compete by forming cartels with other teams and locking their competition out of tournaments. Tournaments are supposed to compete too. They're supposed to compete by having better casters and better prize pools and attracting more players and viewers. They are not supposed to compete by paying off teams to not compete at any other tournament by giving them preferential treatment at theirs. Did you have a problem with MLG/GOM partnership last year? Or did you think having tons of Koreans who couldn't afford to fly over themselves raised the level of competition? Because that is basically where this all started. Yes, I did - at least with parts of it. I have a problem with anything that has invites and claims to be a major, important tournament. (I'd have less problem with this event if it was unrelated to seeding and the next MLG event, but it's part of the tour, so it makes the whole thing biased.) I have no problem with M LG saying they'll pay travel costs for a certain number of players or something like that, as long as who it is is determined through qualifiers (or past performance in unbiased events, etc.). I don't have any problem with GSL saying "we're going to use MLG as another qualifier and give the winner code S status" because that's objective (as long as MLG is an unbiased tournament). I similarly have no problem with MLG giving group seeds to players based on GSL results - my problem was that they picked random popular players rather than, say, those with the most GSL points. The problem with this is that they aren't just using some Korean tournament for seeding. It's that it's a tournament that isn't open to everyone. They're clearly making it so that to compete at a high level in starcraft, it *really* helps to be on a Kespa team. That is, of course, exactly what Kespa wants, because then it gets the top talent without having to pay top money for it right now, and in the long term they get a monopoly and can pay even less, plus demand lots of the tournament revenue. Imagine TL, EG, Complexity, and Mouz got together and told MLG none of them would send their players unless 4 players from each of those 4 teams got byes to the top 16. What would the reaction be? Would it be any better if MLG "partnered" with those 4 teams first? The community would go absolutely bonkers, as it should. Nothing different here.
Think of this as a hype thread, and MLG is just promoting themselves. Who the fuck is gonna start off by saying "well because we invited some people, this event is actually meaningless as a measure of skill, but enjoy the games!"
The only way that would be unbiased based on your qualifications would have completely open qualifiers (not even divided on region) and then you'd end up with 25+ of 32 players being Korean. If you want unbiased, then you should have a huge problem on their partitioning of qualifiers as well.
One of the big strength's of TL right after release was option to practice in Korea and the biggest draw of EG is money. Not every team or organization is created equal. If those teams can secure good deals then props to them (though threatening to boycott events is taking it a big far).
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Lots of NA players so that Kespa players get guarentee spots? WELL PLAYED SIR.
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On September 14 2012 06:29 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 06:18 Condor Hero wrote:On September 14 2012 06:07 aristarchus wrote:On September 14 2012 06:01 NoobSkills wrote:On September 14 2012 04:57 aristarchus wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 14 2012 04:41 Morieris wrote:On September 14 2012 04:35 aristarchus wrote:
So I'm not surprised at all, but it's really disappointing to see the favorable treatment being given to Kespa players. 24 spots for Kespa, 6 for the rest of Korea? That's just a guarantee that no matter what the actual balance of skill is, 80% of the Koreans will be Kespa. There is absolutely no fairness-based justification for that. It's just Kespa throwing its weight around and MLG deciding to do whatever gets it the most viewers/money. That's how you run a reality TV show, not a legitimate sport.
I really think the community needs to start seeing starcraft as more of a sport. There's room for debate about some format details (separating qualifiers by region, for example), but no tournament that gives players advantages in the competition because of their fame or money or what company they work for should be seen as a "major" by the community.
Why are we really upset when Kespa boycotts GSL, but not upset at all when they push the other Koreans out of MLG? Are we really dumb enough that only pushing them 80% of the way out fools us? You do know MLG is partnered with Kespa, right? And that the event is called MLG vs Proleague. You also do realize this is a special event before the Fall Championship, which will once again be open to anyone who would like to play in it. MLG isn't pushing out non-Kespa players at all. They are putting this event on in an attempt to give people what they want to see, Kespa players in a legitimate tournament that involves non-Kespa players. They are pushing NA players with more spots most likely because it's an NA-based company, and it gives the NA players a chance to step up and legitimize themselves. There are 8 Koreans in Dallas group play already from Raleigh results, there will be more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the KR only online qualifier, and even more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the MvP program. So in fact, there are more Esports Federation players in group play with fullly paid trips than any other group/region of players. Sure, but those are based on the old results before the new system. If this continues, that percentage would obviously shift substantially over time. It's unfair to give one group of players an advantage in a competition. I don't care if there are three times as many ESF as Kespa players - if that happened in a system that was biased towards Kespa players, it means that the ESF player group as a whole deserves even more spots than that. No one is going to take MLG seriously as a sports-like competition if you don't take yourselves seriously first. Imagine if MLB gave the Yankees a 10 game handicap during the regular season because the owner of the Yankees refused to play under any other conditions. That's the same thing that's happening here, and the fact that the reaction against it isn't stronger is very good evidence that esports isn't a true sport yet. Please don't compare ESF players to the Yankees they don't have the money or the talent. Yes, this system will eventually bias the direction towards KESPA players and even now it does. So, what? Eventually KESPA will buy the talent off of the current ESF teams, so in the end the best players will be playing most regularly in MLG. I wasn't comparing ESF players to the Yankees - I was comparing Kespa to the Yankees. Read it again. If Kespa teams are better at business and get more sponsorship and so buy the best players form ESF teams by offering them better contracts and win out, then great. If they're able to make it so those players can't even get into most tournaments unless they join Kespa and then use their monopoly power to make those players accept worse salaries than they deserve, not so great. Teams are supposed to compete. They are supposed to compete through getting sponsorships and scouting better and ending up with better players. They are not supposed to compete by forming cartels with other teams and locking their competition out of tournaments. Tournaments are supposed to compete too. They're supposed to compete by having better casters and better prize pools and attracting more players and viewers. They are not supposed to compete by paying off teams to not compete at any other tournament by giving them preferential treatment at theirs. Did you have a problem with MLG/GOM partnership last year? Or did you think having tons of Koreans who couldn't afford to fly over themselves raised the level of competition? Because that is basically where this all started. Yes, I did - at least with parts of it. I have a problem with anything that has invites and claims to be a major, important tournament. (I'd have less problem with this event if it was unrelated to seeding and the next MLG event, but it's part of the tour, so it makes the whole thing biased.) I have no problem with MLG saying they'll pay travel costs for a certain number of players or something like that, as long as who it is is determined through qualifiers (or past performance in unbiased events, etc.). I don't have any problem with GSL saying "we're going to use MLG as another qualifier and give the winner code S status" because that's objective (as long as MLG is an unbiased tournament). I similarly have no problem with MLG giving group seeds to players based on GSL results - my problem was that they picked random popular players rather than, say, those with the most GSL points. The problem with this is that they aren't just using some Korean tournament for seeding. It's that it's a tournament that isn't open to everyone. They're clearly making it so that to compete at a high level in starcraft, it *really* helps to be on a Kespa team. That is, of course, exactly what Kespa wants, because then it gets the top talent without having to pay top money for it right now, and in the long term they get a monopoly and can pay even less, plus demand lots of the tournament revenue. Imagine TL, EG, Complexity, and Mouz got together and told MLG none of them would send their players unless 4 players from each of those 4 teams got byes to the top 16. What would the reaction be? Would it be any better if MLG "partnered" with those 4 teams first? The community would go absolutely bonkers, as it should. Nothing different here.
Also a very good point. The hole thing is absurd
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On September 14 2012 06:44 taLbuk wrote:
Does the Kespa-MLG partnership mean they are exlusive to MLG? will we never see Kespa players in Dreamhack IPL etc as long as the partnership exists?
pretty lame
whatever it could be, it'll have to work around proleague.
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Cant wait for this, going to be so amazing!
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Does the Kespa-MLG partnership mean they are exlusive to MLG? will we never see Kespa players in Dreamhack IPL etc as long as the partnership exists?
pretty lame
A matter of taste. I personally like it very much that some tournaments are gonna be different from the others.
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12 players from NA? That's a mistake.
Otherwise, this is going to be so epic, omg.
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On September 14 2012 01:49 Tidus Mino wrote:
EU - Stephano, Vortix, SortOf, Thorzain, Naniwa, Nerchio
KR - Creator, MKP, Jjakji, Genius, Life, Squirtle
NA - Scarlett, Vibe, Insur, Idra, Major, HuK, Illusion, Ostojiy, Suppy, TT1, Maker, Nony
who i'd put in the tournament
I agree with that NA list except no Nony, instead Sheth
consider HelloKitty, Trimaster, Hawk
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On September 14 2012 07:02 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 06:29 aristarchus wrote:On September 14 2012 06:18 Condor Hero wrote:On September 14 2012 06:07 aristarchus wrote:On September 14 2012 06:01 NoobSkills wrote:On September 14 2012 04:57 aristarchus wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 14 2012 04:41 Morieris wrote:On September 14 2012 04:35 aristarchus wrote:
So I'm not surprised at all, but it's really disappointing to see the favorable treatment being given to Kespa players. 24 spots for Kespa, 6 for the rest of Korea? That's just a guarantee that no matter what the actual balance of skill is, 80% of the Koreans will be Kespa. There is absolutely no fairness-based justification for that. It's just Kespa throwing its weight around and MLG deciding to do whatever gets it the most viewers/money. That's how you run a reality TV show, not a legitimate sport.
I really think the community needs to start seeing starcraft as more of a sport. There's room for debate about some format details (separating qualifiers by region, for example), but no tournament that gives players advantages in the competition because of their fame or money or what company they work for should be seen as a "major" by the community.
Why are we really upset when Kespa boycotts GSL, but not upset at all when they push the other Koreans out of MLG? Are we really dumb enough that only pushing them 80% of the way out fools us? You do know MLG is partnered with Kespa, right? And that the event is called MLG vs Proleague. You also do realize this is a special event before the Fall Championship, which will once again be open to anyone who would like to play in it. MLG isn't pushing out non-Kespa players at all. They are putting this event on in an attempt to give people what they want to see, Kespa players in a legitimate tournament that involves non-Kespa players. They are pushing NA players with more spots most likely because it's an NA-based company, and it gives the NA players a chance to step up and legitimize themselves. There are 8 Koreans in Dallas group play already from Raleigh results, there will be more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the KR only online qualifier, and even more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the MvP program. So in fact, there are more Esports Federation players in group play with fullly paid trips than any other group/region of players. Sure, but those are based on the old results before the new system. If this continues, that percentage would obviously shift substantially over time. It's unfair to give one group of players an advantage in a competition. I don't care if there are three times as many ESF as Kespa players - if that happened in a system that was biased towards Kespa players, it means that the ESF player group as a whole deserves even more spots than that. No one is going to take MLG seriously as a sports-like competition if you don't take yourselves seriously first. Imagine if MLB gave the Yankees a 10 game handicap during the regular season because the owner of the Yankees refused to play under any other conditions. That's the same thing that's happening here, and the fact that the reaction against it isn't stronger is very good evidence that esports isn't a true sport yet. Please don't compare ESF players to the Yankees they don't have the money or the talent. Yes, this system will eventually bias the direction towards KESPA players and even now it does. So, what? Eventually KESPA will buy the talent off of the current ESF teams, so in the end the best players will be playing most regularly in MLG. I wasn't comparing ESF players to the Yankees - I was comparing Kespa to the Yankees. Read it again. If Kespa teams are better at business and get more sponsorship and so buy the best players form ESF teams by offering them better contracts and win out, then great. If they're able to make it so those players can't even get into most tournaments unless they join Kespa and then use their monopoly power to make those players accept worse salaries than they deserve, not so great. Teams are supposed to compete. They are supposed to compete through getting sponsorships and scouting better and ending up with better players. They are not supposed to compete by forming cartels with other teams and locking their competition out of tournaments. Tournaments are supposed to compete too. They're supposed to compete by having better casters and better prize pools and attracting more players and viewers. They are not supposed to compete by paying off teams to not compete at any other tournament by giving them preferential treatment at theirs. Did you have a problem with MLG/GOM partnership last year? Or did you think having tons of Koreans who couldn't afford to fly over themselves raised the level of competition? Because that is basically where this all started. Yes, I did - at least with parts of it. I have a problem with anything that has invites and claims to be a major, important tournament. (I'd have less problem with this event if it was unrelated to seeding and the next MLG event, but it's part of the tour, so it makes the whole thing biased.) I have no problem with M LG saying they'll pay travel costs for a certain number of players or something like that, as long as who it is is determined through qualifiers (or past performance in unbiased events, etc.). I don't have any problem with GSL saying "we're going to use MLG as another qualifier and give the winner code S status" because that's objective (as long as MLG is an unbiased tournament). I similarly have no problem with MLG giving group seeds to players based on GSL results - my problem was that they picked random popular players rather than, say, those with the most GSL points. The problem with this is that they aren't just using some Korean tournament for seeding. It's that it's a tournament that isn't open to everyone. They're clearly making it so that to compete at a high level in starcraft, it *really* helps to be on a Kespa team. That is, of course, exactly what Kespa wants, because then it gets the top talent without having to pay top money for it right now, and in the long term they get a monopoly and can pay even less, plus demand lots of the tournament revenue. Imagine TL, EG, Complexity, and Mouz got together and told MLG none of them would send their players unless 4 players from each of those 4 teams got byes to the top 16. What would the reaction be? Would it be any better if MLG "partnered" with those 4 teams first? The community would go absolutely bonkers, as it should. Nothing different here. Think of this as a hype thread, and MLG is just promoting themselves. Who the fuck is gonna start off by saying "well because we invited some people, this event is actually meaningless as a measure of skill, but enjoy the games!" The only way that would be unbiased based on your qualifications would have completely open qualifiers (not even divided on region) and then you'd end up with 25+ of 32 players being Korean. If you want unbiased, then you should have a huge problem on their partitioning of qualifiers as well. One of the big strength's of TL right after release was option to practice in Korea and the biggest draw of EG is money. Not every team or organization is created equal. If those teams can secure good deals then props to them (though threatening to boycott events is taking it a big far).
Its not a hype thread its an assault on the GSL teams and the spirit of the competitive sc2 scene.
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On September 14 2012 07:15 Benjamin99 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 07:02 Condor Hero wrote:On September 14 2012 06:29 aristarchus wrote:On September 14 2012 06:18 Condor Hero wrote:On September 14 2012 06:07 aristarchus wrote:On September 14 2012 06:01 NoobSkills wrote:On September 14 2012 04:57 aristarchus wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 14 2012 04:41 Morieris wrote:On September 14 2012 04:35 aristarchus wrote:
So I'm not surprised at all, but it's really disappointing to see the favorable treatment being given to Kespa players. 24 spots for Kespa, 6 for the rest of Korea? That's just a guarantee that no matter what the actual balance of skill is, 80% of the Koreans will be Kespa. There is absolutely no fairness-based justification for that. It's just Kespa throwing its weight around and MLG deciding to do whatever gets it the most viewers/money. That's how you run a reality TV show, not a legitimate sport.
I really think the community needs to start seeing starcraft as more of a sport. There's room for debate about some format details (separating qualifiers by region, for example), but no tournament that gives players advantages in the competition because of their fame or money or what company they work for should be seen as a "major" by the community.
Why are we really upset when Kespa boycotts GSL, but not upset at all when they push the other Koreans out of MLG? Are we really dumb enough that only pushing them 80% of the way out fools us? You do know MLG is partnered with Kespa, right? And that the event is called MLG vs Proleague. You also do realize this is a special event before the Fall Championship, which will once again be open to anyone who would like to play in it. MLG isn't pushing out non-Kespa players at all. They are putting this event on in an attempt to give people what they want to see, Kespa players in a legitimate tournament that involves non-Kespa players. They are pushing NA players with more spots most likely because it's an NA-based company, and it gives the NA players a chance to step up and legitimize themselves. There are 8 Koreans in Dallas group play already from Raleigh results, there will be more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the KR only online qualifier, and even more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the MvP program. So in fact, there are more Esports Federation players in group play with fullly paid trips than any other group/region of players. Sure, but those are based on the old results before the new system. If this continues, that percentage would obviously shift substantially over time. It's unfair to give one group of players an advantage in a competition. I don't care if there are three times as many ESF as Kespa players - if that happened in a system that was biased towards Kespa players, it means that the ESF player group as a whole deserves even more spots than that. No one is going to take MLG seriously as a sports-like competition if you don't take yourselves seriously first. Imagine if MLB gave the Yankees a 10 game handicap during the regular season because the owner of the Yankees refused to play under any other conditions. That's the same thing that's happening here, and the fact that the reaction against it isn't stronger is very good evidence that esports isn't a true sport yet. Please don't compare ESF players to the Yankees they don't have the money or the talent. Yes, this system will eventually bias the direction towards KESPA players and even now it does. So, what? Eventually KESPA will buy the talent off of the current ESF teams, so in the end the best players will be playing most regularly in MLG. I wasn't comparing ESF players to the Yankees - I was comparing Kespa to the Yankees. Read it again. If Kespa teams are better at business and get more sponsorship and so buy the best players form ESF teams by offering them better contracts and win out, then great. If they're able to make it so those players can't even get into most tournaments unless they join Kespa and then use their monopoly power to make those players accept worse salaries than they deserve, not so great. Teams are supposed to compete. They are supposed to compete through getting sponsorships and scouting better and ending up with better players. They are not supposed to compete by forming cartels with other teams and locking their competition out of tournaments. Tournaments are supposed to compete too. They're supposed to compete by having better casters and better prize pools and attracting more players and viewers. They are not supposed to compete by paying off teams to not compete at any other tournament by giving them preferential treatment at theirs. Did you have a problem with MLG/GOM partnership last year? Or did you think having tons of Koreans who couldn't afford to fly over themselves raised the level of competition? Because that is basically where this all started. Yes, I did - at least with parts of it. I have a problem with anything that has invites and claims to be a major, important tournament. (I'd have less problem with this event if it was unrelated to seeding and the next MLG event, but it's part of the tour, so it makes the whole thing biased.) I have no problem with M LG saying they'll pay travel costs for a certain number of players or something like that, as long as who it is is determined through qualifiers (or past performance in unbiased events, etc.). I don't have any problem with GSL saying "we're going to use MLG as another qualifier and give the winner code S status" because that's objective (as long as MLG is an unbiased tournament). I similarly have no problem with MLG giving group seeds to players based on GSL results - my problem was that they picked random popular players rather than, say, those with the most GSL points. The problem with this is that they aren't just using some Korean tournament for seeding. It's that it's a tournament that isn't open to everyone. They're clearly making it so that to compete at a high level in starcraft, it *really* helps to be on a Kespa team. That is, of course, exactly what Kespa wants, because then it gets the top talent without having to pay top money for it right now, and in the long term they get a monopoly and can pay even less, plus demand lots of the tournament revenue. Imagine TL, EG, Complexity, and Mouz got together and told MLG none of them would send their players unless 4 players from each of those 4 teams got byes to the top 16. What would the reaction be? Would it be any better if MLG "partnered" with those 4 teams first? The community would go absolutely bonkers, as it should. Nothing different here. Think of this as a hype thread, and MLG is just promoting themselves. Who the fuck is gonna start off by saying "well because we invited some people, this event is actually meaningless as a measure of skill, but enjoy the games!" The only way that would be unbiased based on your qualifications would have completely open qualifiers (not even divided on region) and then you'd end up with 25+ of 32 players being Korean. If you want unbiased, then you should have a huge problem on their partitioning of qualifiers as well. One of the big strength's of TL right after release was option to practice in Korea and the biggest draw of EG is money. Not every team or organization is created equal. If those teams can secure good deals then props to them (though threatening to boycott events is taking it a big far). Its not a hype thread its an assault on the GSL teams and the spirit of the competitive sc2 scene.
How so?
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30 Koreans in a 48 player tournament. And you guys are complaining about NA having too many players. lol
I know what you guys are saying its just kinda funny.
On September 14 2012 07:15 FinalForm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:49 Tidus Mino wrote:
EU - Stephano, Vortix, SortOf, Thorzain, Naniwa, Nerchio
KR - Creator, MKP, Jjakji, Genius, Life, Squirtle
NA - Scarlett, Vibe, Insur, Idra, Major, HuK, Illusion, Ostojiy, Suppy, TT1, Maker, Nony
who i'd put in the tournament I agree with that NA list except no Nony, instead Sheth consider HelloKitty, Trimaster, Hawk
I like it, but Mana over Vortix. 
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On September 14 2012 07:18 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 07:15 Benjamin99 wrote:On September 14 2012 07:02 Condor Hero wrote:On September 14 2012 06:29 aristarchus wrote:On September 14 2012 06:18 Condor Hero wrote:On September 14 2012 06:07 aristarchus wrote:On September 14 2012 06:01 NoobSkills wrote:On September 14 2012 04:57 aristarchus wrote:On September 14 2012 04:48 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 14 2012 04:41 Morieris wrote:
[quote]
You do know MLG is partnered with Kespa, right? And that the event is called MLG vs Proleague. You also do realize this is a special event before the Fall Championship, which will once again be open to anyone who would like to play in it. MLG isn't pushing out non-Kespa players at all. They are putting this event on in an attempt to give people what they want to see, Kespa players in a legitimate tournament that involves non-Kespa players. They are pushing NA players with more spots most likely because it's an NA-based company, and it gives the NA players a chance to step up and legitimize themselves. There are 8 Koreans in Dallas group play already from Raleigh results, there will be more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the KR only online qualifier, and even more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the MvP program. So in fact, there are more Esports Federation players in group play with fullly paid trips than any other group/region of players. Sure, but those are based on the old results before the new system. If this continues, that percentage would obviously shift substantially over time. It's unfair to give one group of players an advantage in a competition. I don't care if there are three times as many ESF as Kespa players - if that happened in a system that was biased towards Kespa players, it means that the ESF player group as a whole deserves even more spots than that. No one is going to take MLG seriously as a sports-like competition if you don't take yourselves seriously first. Imagine if MLB gave the Yankees a 10 game handicap during the regular season because the owner of the Yankees refused to play under any other conditions. That's the same thing that's happening here, and the fact that the reaction against it isn't stronger is very good evidence that esports isn't a true sport yet. Please don't compare ESF players to the Yankees they don't have the money or the talent. Yes, this system will eventually bias the direction towards KESPA players and even now it does. So, what? Eventually KESPA will buy the talent off of the current ESF teams, so in the end the best players will be playing most regularly in MLG. I wasn't comparing ESF players to the Yankees - I was comparing Kespa to the Yankees. Read it again. If Kespa teams are better at business and get more sponsorship and so buy the best players form ESF teams by offering them better contracts and win out, then great. If they're able to make it so those players can't even get into most tournaments unless they join Kespa and then use their monopoly power to make those players accept worse salaries than they deserve, not so great. Teams are supposed to compete. They are supposed to compete through getting sponsorships and scouting better and ending up with better players. They are not supposed to compete by forming cartels with other teams and locking their competition out of tournaments. Tournaments are supposed to compete too. They're supposed to compete by having better casters and better prize pools and attracting more players and viewers. They are not supposed to compete by paying off teams to not compete at any other tournament by giving them preferential treatment at theirs. Did you have a problem with MLG/GOM partnership last year? Or did you think having tons of Koreans who couldn't afford to fly over themselves raised the level of competition? Because that is basically where this all started. Yes, I did - at least with parts of it. I have a problem with anything that has invites and claims to be a major, important tournament. (I'd have less problem with this event if it was unrelated to seeding and the next MLG event, but it's part of the tour, so it makes the whole thing biased.) I have no problem with M LG saying they'll pay travel costs for a certain number of players or something like that, as long as who it is is determined through qualifiers (or past performance in unbiased events, etc.). I don't have any problem with GSL saying "we're going to use MLG as another qualifier and give the winner code S status" because that's objective (as long as MLG is an unbiased tournament). I similarly have no problem with MLG giving group seeds to players based on GSL results - my problem was that they picked random popular players rather than, say, those with the most GSL points. The problem with this is that they aren't just using some Korean tournament for seeding. It's that it's a tournament that isn't open to everyone. They're clearly making it so that to compete at a high level in starcraft, it *really* helps to be on a Kespa team. That is, of course, exactly what Kespa wants, because then it gets the top talent without having to pay top money for it right now, and in the long term they get a monopoly and can pay even less, plus demand lots of the tournament revenue. Imagine TL, EG, Complexity, and Mouz got together and told MLG none of them would send their players unless 4 players from each of those 4 teams got byes to the top 16. What would the reaction be? Would it be any better if MLG "partnered" with those 4 teams first? The community would go absolutely bonkers, as it should. Nothing different here. Think of this as a hype thread, and MLG is just promoting themselves. Who the fuck is gonna start off by saying "well because we invited some people, this event is actually meaningless as a measure of skill, but enjoy the games!" The only way that would be unbiased based on your qualifications would have completely open qualifiers (not even divided on region) and then you'd end up with 25+ of 32 players being Korean. If you want unbiased, then you should have a huge problem on their partitioning of qualifiers as well. One of the big strength's of TL right after release was option to practice in Korea and the biggest draw of EG is money. Not every team or organization is created equal. If those teams can secure good deals then props to them (though threatening to boycott events is taking it a big far). Its not a hype thread its an assault on the GSL teams and the spirit of the competitive sc2 scene. How so?
Go back some pages. Aristarchus and I have actually explained why this is a disgrace. I cant believe fans of a fair competition in sports is not outraged by this. It blow my mind
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On September 14 2012 06:55 Megiddosc wrote:
I'd definitely think a match between Stephano and Flash would be interesting.
Stephano would destroy him. The best Kespa players right now are not the famous Kespa players.
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So many tournaments these days... Sounds cool, but i doubt I will personally watch much of it.
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On September 14 2012 07:23 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 06:55 Megiddosc wrote:
I'd definitely think a match between Stephano and Flash would be interesting. Stephano would destroy him. The best Kespa players right now are not the famous Kespa players.
Would he now? Wouldn't be so sure on that. People said the same of mc.
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On September 14 2012 07:25 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 07:23 Sub40APM wrote:On September 14 2012 06:55 Megiddosc wrote:
I'd definitely think a match between Stephano and Flash would be interesting. Stephano would destroy him. The best Kespa players right now are not the famous Kespa players. Would he now? Wouldn't be so sure on that. People said the same of mc.
ya MC did not talk shit to flash and then lose on purpose. i mean maybe bo 11 mc might win, but kespa pros up there
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I have been waiting for this day to come FOR SO LONG
Finally i been waiting for this ! Actually so pumped for this
MLG VS KESPA
BRING IT ON KESPA
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When I read 24 kespa players I was excited.
And then I saw they play against 12 NA players, 6 EU and only 6 other Koreans. 
These will largely be stomps, not really fun to watch.
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EPT
