On September 13 2012 09:29 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:24 LgNkarmy wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:21 Jarree wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
What if I have a contract in my desk stating you must pay me 100$ every month? Yes it states that. You didn't sign it? Too bad. Now the money please.
As I have said, Mistakes were made. Fuzer shouldn't have even though about moving without a contract first while paying so much a month, At the same time MoW already stated they will never allow a player to move in without the contract signed. Why can't we just agree that mistakes were made but it's nothing to blow up about...
Well that's a dismissive attitude, and with this story being less than a day old, it seems too soon to try to bury it and "put these things behind us and get on with our lives." (Pretend like they didn't happen as well).
Fear not, unless other players chime in, I see no long term damage to MoW. Fuzer aired his grievances and I think that's fine. MoW has responded, so whatever will be, will be.
The future's not ours to see.
...
I agree, Just from my point of view. I lived in the house, I was able to read the contract and NDA indepth, I know what was expected from us. All other players agreed to this. I'm not saying blow it under the rug, When it's brought up it's good to get both sides of the story, But everyone has both sides, Mistakes were admitted too. Everyone is pitch forking MoW for something they admitted was a mistake and won't happen in the future.
The very final problem i see is:
Why did you have to step in and bring this to light? Why couldn't the Ministry of Win account use your words, instead of having to call Fuzer childish? (not saying they are wrong but you know, not the best way to handle it maybe?)
I don't know, I'm not MoW lol. I'm just saying this from an outside point of view, Looking at both sides. I'm unbiased just trying to give people facts from living in the house at the time. Everyone is throwing around rumours that aren't true.
WHy would you then help MoW by inflating the numbers of the service the maid provided, etc?? If you are going to vgive your opinion, be objective. All your posts seem to be only wanting to help MoF.
On September 13 2012 09:29 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:24 LgNkarmy wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:21 Jarree wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
What if I have a contract in my desk stating you must pay me 100$ every month? Yes it states that. You didn't sign it? Too bad. Now the money please.
As I have said, Mistakes were made. Fuzer shouldn't have even though about moving without a contract first while paying so much a month, At the same time MoW already stated they will never allow a player to move in without the contract signed. Why can't we just agree that mistakes were made but it's nothing to blow up about...
Well that's a dismissive attitude, and with this story being less than a day old, it seems too soon to try to bury it and "put these things behind us and get on with our lives." (Pretend like they didn't happen as well).
Fear not, unless other players chime in, I see no long term damage to MoW. Fuzer aired his grievances and I think that's fine. MoW has responded, so whatever will be, will be.
The future's not ours to see.
...
I agree, Just from my point of view. I lived in the house, I was able to read the contract and NDA indepth, I know what was expected from us. All other players agreed to this. I'm not saying blow it under the rug, When it's brought up it's good to get both sides of the story, But everyone has both sides, Mistakes were admitted too. Everyone is pitch forking MoW for something they admitted was a mistake and won't happen in the future.
Most people are upset that he is losing 2000 (from a 2600 investment) for a 6 day stay all because they wouldn't let the lawyer read over the fine print...
It's one thing to have a contract and have someone disagree but to get a contract written in a foreign language that the participant doesn't understand fully and negate any legal aid is ridiculous.
MoW Offered to give him his money back and they go their seperate ways. He declined because he wanted to "shit on MoW" to the community.
We can shrug this guy off as biased now..
I'm not biased at all, Just no one is thinking logically. This entire community loves to hate, and when they have the chance they want to hate who is going to hurt more. Ruining MoW rep while they're so new hurts them a lot. It's just facts lol. I'm not biased at all. I agree MoW made mistakes, So did Fuzer. I just wanted to post what I knew from living in the house. If you don't want facts then I'll leave and you can continue to follow the crowd without proper information.
On September 13 2012 08:57 btx0 wrote: This is ridiculous. 150h / month streaming, 10 year non compete, pressuring people into signing a contract without legal council, paying back money only after bad publicity and a very weak press release not addressing the issue at all. Unless these things get cleared up I'd be surprised to see anyone joining MoW.
LOL when you live in gaming house and you play only one game , why you DONT stream ? Its good for player fans to see them stream.. , people that are biching around that players stream to much lol.. its good for players also , they can make more fans by streams.
10 year non compete ? you dont even read this OP good. You can compete where you wanna. You just cant make your own gaming house and take ideas from MoW house , this is in document.
On September 13 2012 09:17 Ikuu wrote: MoW sounds shady as fuck. 10 year non-compete, forcing people to stream a certain number of hours and then taking a cut, and for some reason they need to sign an NDA.
another one.. read up.
Because Stream is NOT good for training. Polt suffered greatly when he non stop streamed, same with ForGG. And all the top streamer on TL is not getting any better.
Going by your logic...let pro gamers DONT STREAM , then what with us fans..? how to support players ? how to cheer for them.. ? Players wanna stream because of fans , and they make money from streaming. They have closed pratcice sesions in MoW house first 5 h of day , when they play custom games.. and there is time for stream for fans.. money.. and ladder.
I ask once agine ... you wanna players stop streams..? really ? I dont get you.
On September 13 2012 09:31 NeMeSiS3 wrote: What kind of fucking "press release" was that? What amateurs.... That was absolutely ridiculous just give the guy back his 2000 and piss off...
The actual "press release" as they call it states nothing it gives 2 interviews and... one paragraph? Ministry of Win is quickly turning into the Ministry of Shit
LOL NO ? hahaha Snute , Cytoplasm , Breathe they not improved ? , players say they improved there a lot , results say they imprved and some random person from TL tell they dont.. , who to belive..mhmmm hard choice.
On September 13 2012 09:29 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:24 LgNkarmy wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:21 Jarree wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
What if I have a contract in my desk stating you must pay me 100$ every month? Yes it states that. You didn't sign it? Too bad. Now the money please.
As I have said, Mistakes were made. Fuzer shouldn't have even though about moving without a contract first while paying so much a month, At the same time MoW already stated they will never allow a player to move in without the contract signed. Why can't we just agree that mistakes were made but it's nothing to blow up about...
Well that's a dismissive attitude, and with this story being less than a day old, it seems too soon to try to bury it and "put these things behind us and get on with our lives." (Pretend like they didn't happen as well).
Fear not, unless other players chime in, I see no long term damage to MoW. Fuzer aired his grievances and I think that's fine. MoW has responded, so whatever will be, will be.
The future's not ours to see.
...
I agree, Just from my point of view. I lived in the house, I was able to read the contract and NDA indepth, I know what was expected from us. All other players agreed to this. I'm not saying blow it under the rug, When it's brought up it's good to get both sides of the story, But everyone has both sides, Mistakes were admitted too. Everyone is pitch forking MoW for something they admitted was a mistake and won't happen in the future.
The very final problem i see is:
Why did you have to step in and bring this to light? Why couldn't the Ministry of Win account use your words, instead of having to call Fuzer childish? (not saying they are wrong but you know, not the best way to handle it maybe?)
I don't know, I'm not MoW lol. I'm just saying this from an outside point of view, Looking at both sides. I'm unbiased just trying to give people facts from living in the house at the time. Everyone is throwing around rumours that aren't true.
WHy would you then help MoW by inflating the numbers of the service the maid provided, etc?? If you are going to vgive your opinion, be objective. All your posts seem to be only wanting to help MoF.
How did I inflate the numbers? The only day she wasn't at the house was sunday, She was there all day. I never inflated anything
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
What if I have a contract in my desk stating you must pay me 100$ every month? Yes it states that. You didn't sign it? Too bad. Now the money please.
As I have said, Mistakes were made. Fuzer shouldn't have even though about moving without a contract first while paying so much a month, At the same time MoW already stated they will never allow a player to move in without the contract signed. Why can't we just agree that mistakes were made but it's nothing to blow up about...
Because such mistakes should not occur. They wan't to be a professional gaming house/company and if they fail to do so they must live with the consequences. And the excuse that they just started that project doesn't help here because if they want to be professional they have to be it from start to end.
On September 13 2012 08:57 btx0 wrote: This is ridiculous. 150h / month streaming, 10 year non compete, pressuring people into signing a contract without legal council, paying back money only after bad publicity and a very weak press release not addressing the issue at all. Unless these things get cleared up I'd be surprised to see anyone joining MoW.
LOL when you live in gaming house and you play only one game , why you DONT stream ? Its good for player fans to see them stream.. , people that are biching around that players stream to much lol.. its good for players also , they can make more fans by streams.
10 year non compete ? you dont even read this OP good. You can compete where you wanna. You just cant make your own gaming house and take ideas from MoW house , this is in document.
On September 13 2012 09:17 Ikuu wrote: MoW sounds shady as fuck. 10 year non-compete, forcing people to stream a certain number of hours and then taking a cut, and for some reason they need to sign an NDA.
another one.. read up.
Because Stream is NOT good for training. Polt suffered greatly when he non stop streamed, same with ForGG. And all the top streamer on TL is not getting any better.
Going by your logic...let pro gamers DONT STREAM , then what with us fans..? how to support players ? how to cheer for them.. ? Players wanna stream because of fans , and they make money from streaming. They have closed pratcice sesions in MoW house first 5 h of day , when they play custom games.. and there is time for stream for fans.. money.. and ladder.
I ask once agine ... you wanna players stop streams..? really ? I dont get you.
On September 13 2012 09:31 NeMeSiS3 wrote: What kind of fucking "press release" was that? What amateurs.... That was absolutely ridiculous just give the guy back his 2000 and piss off...
The actual "press release" as they call it states nothing it gives 2 interviews and... one paragraph? Ministry of Win is quickly turning into the Ministry of Shit
For someone not part of MoW management you seem to have an incredible amount of information about their practices and show a certain level of bias whilst wearing your rose-tinted glasses with the MoW logo on the lenses.
On September 13 2012 09:30 courtpanda wrote: so uhh, which way are our pitchforks pointed at now?
its always the organization that is responsible for any problem that occurs, reason for this is that the organization set it up in the first place so its really up to them to fix it.
I don't agree on that Ministry Of Win are evil people that tries to scam people, they are just fucking stupid. Why the hell did the take money from a player and took him over to the house before they signed the actual contract? The contract sounds like something someone with no real experience with this would make, its bullshit. Why exactly did they want proof of the attorney? Just denying him a third party to check the contract is fucking retarded as well. If I would sign a contract and they refused to let me get a second opinion on it from another person, lawyer or not, I would never sign that shit. And most importantly, Ministry Of Win should had realized THEY FUCKED UP and just returned him the money, instead they waited until he threatened to tell everyone which they then went "okay here is your money".
On September 13 2012 09:29 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:24 LgNkarmy wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:21 Jarree wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
What if I have a contract in my desk stating you must pay me 100$ every month? Yes it states that. You didn't sign it? Too bad. Now the money please.
As I have said, Mistakes were made. Fuzer shouldn't have even though about moving without a contract first while paying so much a month, At the same time MoW already stated they will never allow a player to move in without the contract signed. Why can't we just agree that mistakes were made but it's nothing to blow up about...
Well that's a dismissive attitude, and with this story being less than a day old, it seems too soon to try to bury it and "put these things behind us and get on with our lives." (Pretend like they didn't happen as well).
Fear not, unless other players chime in, I see no long term damage to MoW. Fuzer aired his grievances and I think that's fine. MoW has responded, so whatever will be, will be.
The future's not ours to see.
...
I agree, Just from my point of view. I lived in the house, I was able to read the contract and NDA indepth, I know what was expected from us. All other players agreed to this. I'm not saying blow it under the rug, When it's brought up it's good to get both sides of the story, But everyone has both sides, Mistakes were admitted too. Everyone is pitch forking MoW for something they admitted was a mistake and won't happen in the future.
The very final problem i see is:
Why did you have to step in and bring this to light? Why couldn't the Ministry of Win account use your words, instead of having to call Fuzer childish? (not saying they are wrong but you know, not the best way to handle it maybe?)
I don't know, I'm not MoW lol. I'm just saying this from an outside point of view, Looking at both sides. I'm unbiased just trying to give people facts from living in the house at the time. Everyone is throwing around rumours that aren't true.
But you called him childish and say his motive are to "shit on MoW" to the community?
I feel you (or you people) should quit posting while you are behind?
On September 13 2012 09:37 Sailincieri wrote: OMG stop this stupid drama.
Fuzer is a troll, any1 who watched his stream must be aware of. this. He wanted a war and he made one.
MoW Boss was stupid enough to start any discussions with an kid. They never should let kid live in MoW without a signed contract.
Statements by Destiny and LgNkarmy are more important for me then Fuzer.
Discussion about streaming, food, price etc. is not critical... If you dont like terms you dont have to sign, or you can negotiate (Karmy statement), this is not the main topic! Stop whining!
On September 13 2012 09:26 Monochromatic wrote: To all this defending Fuzer about not signing the contract: It was MoW making a bad decision since they assumed that he would sign the contract. He paid for another month, they were just waiting for him. MoW wanted to defend their ideas, so they wanted to make sure the lawer was Legit, fuzer failed to provide that infomation.
Did you read the OP? They didnt give him time to receive the lawyers info. They gave him a deadline the same day that they asked for it.
Do you read? Are you a troll or what?
I forget, is this guy employed by MoW? Because this looks like some Grade Z quality Astroturfing right here.
On September 13 2012 09:23 LgNkarmy wrote: Okay guys stop talking about the streaming, It has nothing to do with anything. MoW promoted us as players a lot, They aloud us to run commercials with twitch, which many of us couldn't do before. So I went from making nothing, To making something and getting a small cut taken. Trust me the cut was small. So why does it matter? And when you're making money, Streaming 8 hours a day is NOTHING. We weren't suppose to stream the first 5 hours of the day because it was ment for custom practice and to improve. It was hard not to, I wanted to stream more, I wanted to run commericials, I wanted to double the streaming requirement. It wasn't hard to do it. You're blowing it way out of the water without even thinking behind it.
TLDR. Went from not making money from streaming, To making money from streaming with a small cut. Not a big deal, Almost expected.
With all due respect as an "unknown" player you are right its really nice. But lets say Ret has to do the streaming time, how can that be practice when loads of lesser players want to play him, therefore snipe him, or he cant practice new builds during that time because he wants to save them for a specific tournament?
He puts a goddamned delay on his stream or streams random fun stuff. Casts replays, analyzes play from others, enjoys himself.
These stream complaints are so stupid.
Why didn't Destiny hit 150 hours? Probably because he doesn't need to in order to survive, he's spending time with his kid, his girlfriend, at events, playing other games, etc. Ret's been streaming pretty constantly too, doesn't seem to have a problem with it. When all you have to do is Starcraft, you're going to do it a lot, use the streaming time to offrace, or play custom games. Really not a big deal, I work 8+ hours a day, physical labor, and often stream for 3-4 afterwords for shits and giggles, and normally to 0 people watching.
If it wasn't part of the contract in the first place and Fuzer only found out about it when he showed up at the house then sure, that's a little bit a of a problem. But I highly doubt it was never brought to his attention as it seems like a good way for MoW to lower their operating costs and if they have this deal with Twitch as it is then it's probably something that's been well in the works for a while.
Sorry to have offended you it just seems like a) a lot of time and b) why can't we treat playing starcraft as a normal 8 hour a day job? (lets even say that working sundays is normal here), then having 5 hours of not practice is a bunch. And there is a limited amount of time once can play, at least many pros have said that you get burned out if you play too much, and maybe players also want to have fun doing other things from time to time, thats the reason why the streaming is brought up a lot (at least i think)
On September 13 2012 09:29 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:24 LgNkarmy wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:21 Jarree wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
What if I have a contract in my desk stating you must pay me 100$ every month? Yes it states that. You didn't sign it? Too bad. Now the money please.
As I have said, Mistakes were made. Fuzer shouldn't have even though about moving without a contract first while paying so much a month, At the same time MoW already stated they will never allow a player to move in without the contract signed. Why can't we just agree that mistakes were made but it's nothing to blow up about...
Well that's a dismissive attitude, and with this story being less than a day old, it seems too soon to try to bury it and "put these things behind us and get on with our lives." (Pretend like they didn't happen as well).
Fear not, unless other players chime in, I see no long term damage to MoW. Fuzer aired his grievances and I think that's fine. MoW has responded, so whatever will be, will be.
The future's not ours to see.
...
I agree, Just from my point of view. I lived in the house, I was able to read the contract and NDA indepth, I know what was expected from us. All other players agreed to this. I'm not saying blow it under the rug, When it's brought up it's good to get both sides of the story, But everyone has both sides, Mistakes were admitted too. Everyone is pitch forking MoW for something they admitted was a mistake and won't happen in the future.
Most people are upset that he is losing 2000 (from a 2600 investment) for a 6 day stay all because they wouldn't let the lawyer read over the fine print...
It's one thing to have a contract and have someone disagree but to get a contract written in a foreign language that the participant doesn't understand fully and negate any legal aid is ridiculous.
MoW Offered to give him his money back and they go their seperate ways. He declined because he wanted to "shit on MoW" to the community.
Why are you the envoy? Why isn't any proof of this claim or anything shown in the "press release"... How am I just suppost to take your word while MoW sits back and goes "that's the story, we don't provide proof" seems odd.
On September 13 2012 09:16 Sadistx wrote: Wait, so you PAY them 600 euros/month AND you have an obligation to stream 150h AND they take a cut of the stream revenue?
This is bar none the worst deal in e-sports since KESPA stopped treating b-teamers like slave labor. At least b-teamers didn't have to pay the pro-gaming house. I'm actually sitting here laughing at how bad this is.
+food problems +they don't have a housecleaning service How did anyone sign this lol? Whole drama aside, this deal is just laughable.
They had a house cleaning service, We had a maid at the house 6 days a week for roughly 10 hours a day. The house was extremely clean at all times. Where did you even hear that?
The MinistryOfWin guy stated Fuzer didn't want to clean his room so I assumed they didn't have a housecleaning service.
There were a few things we were suppose to clean. Our rooms were suppose to stay tidy and we were suppose to make our beds.
And that's reasonable. I will give my "sight" on this, which i lack the facts but this is what i get.
- Fuzer's attitude doesn't work with the house. - MoW wants the contract to be signed so they can enforce those clauses to diminish his "bad" behaviour. - Fuzer's wants a copy of the contract to ask a lawyer, but that doesn't matter, even if that copy is for his mom to check, you give the copy always if you are really interested on that person signing it. - Since MoW pulled a deadline to sign it. That means they wanted him out, since he wouldn't sign something he don't really get. And there's where the shady part start. If you are a proffesional and don't want to work with somebody, you just tell him that for the best interest of both parties, they have to let him go. And you pay, since you are the businessman and took the risk. Sometimes this shit happens, and you won't get any blacklash from this since you did everything right. - Fuzer decided to don't sign and went back to home quite angry since they didn't give him back some of his money... because the MoW boss said that's what the contract he didn't signed said. So he calls them thefts on his facebook. - MoW boss offers him the money after that (after it already exploded) with a threat (war or money), Fuzer refuses and decides to go public. - And here we are, poor business practices and management gets you into this kind of shitty situations.
On September 13 2012 09:38 Snute wrote: It's funny. I remember my only words to Fuzer during my stay at the whole Battle at Ministry of Win tournament were these: "You need to take this seriously, you know." after 3-1. Somewhere inside I was cheering for him.
Now this.
Let's just say there's a reason some people get caught up into trouble and some people don't.
Chill is a wise man, he said it like this: "Guess what? If you don't like it, then don't live there. This is a privately-run house."
The thing is... You can complain a lot. The house is not perfect and now this. But you cannot take away the fact that they had the balls to try set up a gaming house in Europe, and they are still going at it, gathering some of Europe's finest players. I love that place. Not necessarily because it's a good house with all its fancy features, but because it's a place where people gather with the same dreams, hopes and goals - to improve. And not many people in Europe have the balls to do such a thing. The people make the place unique. People that leave everything behind for one simple purpose - self-improvement. Do you even know what it's like? This is currently the ONLY place in Europe that allows SC2-players to gather like this.
People were talking shit about how an European house would not help any of the players even before I got there! How it wouldn't make a difference. I can tell you, it did make a difference for me. At the very least I'm glad I didn't have to share house with skeptic people like those not even giving an European pro-house a chance to begin with. Those of you who don't believe in a combined fighting spirit are the ones who are contributing to us getting our asses kicked every time we meet a Korean. They are a bit closer to each other than we are, you know? They don't rest on their laurels after a loss. They are not the ones who say "Give up, it's impossible. Why even try."
Not taking sides here, but to be constructive regarding the gaming house situation in Europe ... Maybe some of you guys should put together a gaming house and show how us all how it's done? We are all united through the Internet after all. Let us create something beautiful. Set up your own house, I'll be happy to visit you. Or maybe you can apply for a job at a gaming house? Do something.
I lived in the Ministry of Win for months. I am that quiet kid in the back of the class, the 'good guy above all this shit'. What I have to say? I paid for the months, got what I wanted, told the managers whenever something was wrong, told them whatever was unacceptable, helped improve shit. If I needed something, I told them and they would fix it, although being short on manpower they fixed it as fast as they could. If I was to go back there now, I'd have zero troubles. Their setup is really good now. The Battle tournament was amazing. The current players are awesome. I would tell them if I was not happy with food. I would tell them to fix their stuff if something was wrong.
If there was any issue I'd just tell them straight up.
They never bitched about me not streaming as much. In the beginning there were some net issues that are fixed now. I was travelling a lot too. They were understanding. I'm sure if someone were smurfing/preparing for something truly important they would be understanding of that too. This is something you as a player can ASK about before you go there, if you so desire. If you don't like the response then negotiate more or don't go.
I went into this house with high ideals. Ideals I still hold. And I got what I came for. Good months of hard practice. Even though I'm still shit compared to the powerhouses you look up to, the people I look up to - stepha, nerchio, scarlett, etc - I've improved. I improved lots, made friends and experienced a new country, new impressions. I got what I wanted and I'm happy with the time I spent. I had the balls to go there and have no regrets.
If you don't want bad things to happen in your life then stop getting yourself into crappy situations, it's that simple. Why do you allow yourself to get into such spots in the first place? Check stuff out BEFORE you get on those planes and come prepared. Cooperate and don't be lazy when issues arise. If it takes less than five minutes to do just )$(!)#( do it !!
I'm not taking sides. I'm just here to be constructive, get some of my own experience out there while I work on my badass rocket ride to Korea.
On September 13 2012 09:38 Snute wrote: It's funny. I remember my only words to Fuzer during my stay at the whole Battle at Ministry of Win tournament were these: "You need to take this seriously, you know." after 3-1. Somewhere inside I was cheering for him.
Now this.
Let's just say there's a reason some people get caught up into trouble and some people don't.
Chill is a wise man, he said it like this: "Guess what? If you don't like it, then don't live there. This is a privately-run house."
The thing is... You can complain a lot. The house is not perfect and now this. But you cannot take away the fact that they had the balls to try set up a gaming house in Europe, and they are still going at it, gathering some of Europe's finest players. I love that place. Not necessarily because it's a good house with all its fancy features, but because it's a place where people gather with the same dreams, hopes and goals - to improve. And not many people in Europe have the balls to do such a thing. The people make the place unique. People that leave everything behind for one simple purpose - self-improvement. Do you even know what it's like? This is currently the ONLY place in Europe that allows SC2-players to gather like this.
People were talking shit about how an European house would not help any of the players even before I got there! How it wouldn't make a difference. I can tell you, it did make a difference for me. At the very least I'm glad I didn't have to share house with skeptic people like those not even giving an European pro-house a chance to begin with. Those of you who don't believe in a combined fighting spirit are the ones who are contributing to us getting our asses kicked every time we meet a Korean. They are a bit closer to each other than we are, you know? They don't rest on their laurels after a loss. They are not the ones who say "Give up, it's impossible. Why even try."
Not taking sides here, but to be constructive regarding the gaming house situation in Europe ... Maybe some of you guys should put together a gaming house and show how us all how it's done? We are all united through the Internet after all. Let us create something beautiful. Set up your own house, I'll be happy to visit you. Or maybe you can apply for a job at a gaming house? Do something.
I lived in the Ministry of Win for months. I am that quiet kid in the back of the class, the 'good guy above all this shit'. What I have to say? I paid for the months, got what I wanted, told the managers whenever something was wrong, told them whatever was unacceptable, helped improve shit. If I needed something, I told them and they would fix it, although being short on manpower they fixed it as fast as they could. If I was to go back there now, I'd have zero troubles. Their setup is really good now. The Battle tournament was amazing. The current players are awesome. I would tell them if I was not happy with food. I would tell them to fix their stuff if something was wrong.
If there was any issue I'd just tell them straight up.
They never bitched about me not streaming as much. In the beginning there were some net issues that are fixed now. I was travelling a lot too. They were understanding. I'm sure if someone were smurfing/preparing for something truly important they would be understanding of that too. This is something you as a player can ASK about before you go there, if you so desire. If you don't like the response then negotiate more or don't go.
I went into this house with high ideals. Ideals I still hold. And I got what I came for. Good months of hard practice. Even though I'm still shit compared to the powerhouses you look up to, the people I look up to - stepha, nerchio, scarlett, etc - I've improved. I improved lots, made friends and experienced a new country, new impressions. I got what I wanted and I'm happy with the time I spent. I had the balls to go there and have no regrets.
If you don't want bad things to happen in your life then stop getting yourself into crappy situations, it's that simple. Why do you allow yourself to get into such spots in the first place? Check stuff out BEFORE you get on those planes and come prepared. Cooperate and don't be lazy when issues arise. If it takes less than five minutes to do just )$(!)#( do it !!
I'm not taking sides. I'm just here to be constructive, get some of my own experience out there while I work on my badass rocket ride to Korea.
I think everyone who wants to post in this thread from now on should read this post first.
On September 13 2012 08:24 Welmu wrote: [quote] 150 hours per month is 5 hours a day....
Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥
so they are right that it isn't 4 hours a day
idk i just feel like it takes two to make a mess
I applaud Welmu's ability to do math. Though if the agreement was for 5 hours a day minimum it would say that. However you have the obligation to stream for 150 hours a month. I don't imagine its much of a stretch to think of the players playing the game for 8 hours a day. So if you turn the stream on during that time, you finish with over 11 days in the month, to do whatever. They partnered with twitch, so even previously non featured streamers would become featured. Which would enable them to profit off of commercials, while giving a % to MoW.
Lol, just stop with the ridiculous 8hours a day streaming thing. Thats funny
Did you even read what he wrote?
Do you know how annoying it must be to stream for 8 hours straight? I mean, we're not just talking about taking a short break. You're not making any revenue when you take a break from streaming, so streaming 8 hours straight is basically just taking short breaks to eat maybe a small bag of pretzels or something, going to the bathroom, getting a glass of water.
5 hours a day is a bit unreasonable for streaming, especially when you consider the fact that most people don't want to stream every single day. Even if you only take 2 days off, you're still going to have to make up 10 hours over 5 days (7 hours a day!). TLO, the #1 streamer in terms of hours, only had 142.5 hours. It's a ridiculous thing for MoW to want their players to do, and if they're charging that much for them to go there in the first place, they should have just included that amount (or some of it) in the contract instead of forcing them to stream that much.
You don't get it, do you? If they stream 8hours of day, it means they have 11days a month to not stream at all! And frankly, when all you do is playing Starcraft all day long, its not troublesome at all. I have streamed myself around 8hours in 1day a few times and it wasn't annoying at all, despite doing it with 20-40viewers avg. I'm sure if I actually had a reasonable number of viewers (like ~100 and more) I would love to do that. And try to understand the fact, that people like Fuzer would never get any money at all from Twitch, cause they would never get a partnership without MoW, so in fact he still was getting more money than the $0 he would normally get.
Lol, the whole point is to get better.
1.) People do not get better when they stream their practice. Numerous pro players have said that streaming their practice games hinders their play and does not help them in any way.
2.) 8 hours straight 3 or 4 days in a row? Do you realize how tiring that is? You can stream that maybe one or two times a week, but doing that every week? Even the highest amount of streamers have to take breaks and can't do that. TLO had 142.5 hours, a ridiculous amount and had to take long breaks during his streaming.
3.) If they really want money from their streaming, fine whatever. Why not just include that cost in the contract and allow them to take whatever money they make from streaming? It's not really fair to tell them after the fact that they have to stream 5 hours a day (at least) and then tell them they don't even get to keep all of the money. If you're not even getting adequate amounts of food, why should you be giving them ADDITIONAL money to WORK?
You clearly have no idea what you are writing about. 1.) Yes, I can agree with you about this point, it's probably not good to stream your practice, strategies etc. for the competitive reasons, however, that pretty much applies for the real top pros, inventing new strategies etc.
2.) It's not tiring at all... Streaming doesn't equal having a webcam and microphone on and talking 24/7 while playing. All you have to do is having x-split on in the background while you play, if you don't feel like it you don't have to talk, you don't even need to check the chat. Also, they know about it before coming, they aren't getting told after the fact that they don't keep all the money. Please, don't even mention the food because it's just silly point. Fuzer saying they get only 1hot meal a day is just hard to consider serious. Yes, believe it or not, but in Poland we have breakfast, which is usually sandwiches/fruits/cereals, dinner which is the biggest meal of the day and is hot, and then supper which is usually sandwiches again (altough of course you can have some hot stuff like sausages, eggs and what not).
3.) Please, realise that if not for MoW, Fuzer would get literally ZERO money whatsoever from streaming! Check the requirements Twitch.tv actually has before they can give you partnership and share the ad revenue with you. The truth is Fuzer would pretty much never get it and he should be glad that MoW with their partnership actually gives him the opportunity to get some money from it.
LOL Ok so you agree with #1, your argument for #2 is that it's "not tiring at all," yet you keep ignoring my point. You can't take a break if you're streaming without losing revenue (no one to run ads), you can't really take a break to go get a meal, and you can't really go to the bathroom without losing revenue. That is indeed tiring. You also can't really just go workout (something ideal to playing and practicing well) if you're streaming.
#3, I already acknowledged this, but if he's going to be making money from the streaming, why the fuck would they not just include it in his contract to begin with (maybe 50 euros more) and then just tell him keep the money from streaming. Instead, they're making him stream a shit ton and he basically gets no money from it. Wtf. That's just screwed up and not fair to Fuzer.
Also, your whole claim that in Poland you have breakfast is absolute bs. In America, it's common not to eat breakfast for many people. Does that mean everyone doesn't eat breakfast? Karmy already said that the meals was an issue at MoW, so why are you arguing that they weren't? Your entire post just shows how you are blindly defending MoW for stuff that is absolutely unacceptable by today's standards.
On September 13 2012 09:18 Xorphene wrote: I'd like to know if MoW actually have coaches for the players or if the players are expected to get better purely by collaborating with each other ?
We had coaches. We had Matiz who was an in house coach, and we practised/talked a lot between players. We had players and coaches online as well.
"had" "was" you use it in past-tense, which means you no longer have coaches.
EPT
(Pretend like they didn't happen as well).
