On September 13 2012 09:28 LgNkarmy wrote: It wasn't 8 hours a day, What do you do while living in a pro gaming house? You play video games. I would play SC2 hours past our scheduled practice just because we were all there because we loved the game, we wanted to improve, and really it was the only thing to do at night until you went to bed. It was very easy to find time to get in a few hours of streaming. It wasn't 8 hours a day...
You had 100 hour, not 150, which is a BIG different.
Streaming is not training, top streamers are not getting any better, which I assume is the goal of going to MoW in the first place.
On September 13 2012 09:16 Sadistx wrote: Wait, so you PAY them 600 euros/month AND you have an obligation to stream 150h AND they take a cut of the stream revenue?
This is bar none the worst deal in e-sports since KESPA stopped treating b-teamers like slave labor. At least b-teamers didn't have to pay the pro-gaming house. I'm actually sitting here laughing at how bad this is.
+food problems +they don't have a housecleaning service How did anyone sign this lol? Whole drama aside, this deal is just laughable.
They had a house cleaning service, We had a maid at the house 6 days a week for roughly 10 hours a day. The house was extremely clean at all times. Where did you even hear that?
The MinistryOfWin guy stated Fuzer didn't want to clean his room so I assumed they didn't have a housecleaning service.
There were a few things we were suppose to clean. Our rooms were suppose to stay tidy and we were suppose to make our beds.
Yeah so why have a maid 10 hours a day for 6 days a week, I don´t think what you said it´s 100% true mister Karmy. But anyways ....
What kind of fucking "press release" was that? What amateurs.... That was absolutely ridiculous just give the guy back his 2000 and piss off...
The actual "press release" as they call it states nothing it gives 2 interviews and... one paragraph? Ministry of Win is quickly turning into the Ministry of Shit
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
What if I have a contract in my desk stating you must pay me 100$ every month? Yes it states that. You didn't sign it? Too bad. Now the money please.
As I have said, Mistakes were made. Fuzer shouldn't have even though about moving without a contract first while paying so much a month, At the same time MoW already stated they will never allow a player to move in without the contract signed. Why can't we just agree that mistakes were made but it's nothing to blow up about...
Well that's a dismissive attitude, and with this story being less than a day old, it seems too soon to try to bury it and "put these things behind us and get on with our lives." (Pretend like they didn't happen as well).
Fear not, unless other players chime in, I see no long term damage to MoW. Fuzer aired his grievances and I think that's fine. MoW has responded, so whatever will be, will be.
The future's not ours to see.
...
I agree, Just from my point of view. I lived in the house, I was able to read the contract and NDA indepth, I know what was expected from us. All other players agreed to this. I'm not saying blow it under the rug, When it's brought up it's good to get both sides of the story, But everyone has both sides, Mistakes were admitted too. Everyone is pitch forking MoW for something they admitted was a mistake and won't happen in the future.
On September 13 2012 08:57 btx0 wrote: This is ridiculous. 150h / month streaming, 10 year non compete, pressuring people into signing a contract without legal council, paying back money only after bad publicity and a very weak press release not addressing the issue at all. Unless these things get cleared up I'd be surprised to see anyone joining MoW.
LOL when you live in gaming house and you play only one game , why you DONT stream ? Its good for player fans to see them stream.. , people that are biching around that players stream to much lol.. its good for players also , they can make more fans by streams.
10 year non compete ? you dont even read this OP good. You can compete where you wanna. You just cant make your own gaming house and take ideas from MoW house , this is in document.
On September 13 2012 09:17 Ikuu wrote: MoW sounds shady as fuck. 10 year non-compete, forcing people to stream a certain number of hours and then taking a cut, and for some reason they need to sign an NDA.
another one.. read up.
Because Stream is NOT good for training. Polt suffered greatly when he non stop streamed, same with ForGG. And all the top streamer on TL is not getting any better.
Going by your logic...let pro gamers DONT STREAM , then what with us fans..? how to support players ? how to cheer for them.. ? Players wanna stream because of fans , and they make money from streaming. They have closed pratcice sesions in MoW house first 5 h of day , when they play custom games.. and there is time for stream for fans.. money.. and ladder.
I ask once agine ... you wanna players stop streams..? really ? I dont get you.
On September 13 2012 09:31 NeMeSiS3 wrote: What kind of fucking "press release" was that? What amateurs.... That was absolutely ridiculous just give the guy back his 2000 and piss off...
The actual "press release" as they call it states nothing it gives 2 interviews and... one paragraph? Ministry of Win is quickly turning into the Ministry of Shit
On September 13 2012 09:28 LgNkarmy wrote: It wasn't 8 hours a day, What do you do while living in a pro gaming house? You play video games. I would play SC2 hours past our scheduled practice just because we were all there because we loved the game, we wanted to improve, and really it was the only thing to do at night until you went to bed. It was very easy to find time to get in a few hours of streaming. It wasn't 8 hours a day...
How many times do we have to go over this argument:
In the contract, it says 150 hours. That is 5 hours a day (assuming that it's an average 30/31 day month). If you're going to take 2 days off of streaming (which is being generous, most people only stream 2 or 3 days a week), you need to stream 7 hours for 5 days a week. Let's say that you're being somewhat realistic and allowing time to eat, get a good night's rest (8 hours), exercise, and socialize. That's about 10 hours left of the day (assuming 8 for sleeping, an hour per meal, an hour to exercise, 2 hours for socializing/relaxing). If you're streaming 7 hours, that only leaves you 3 hours of private practice. That's really not a lot to make new builds, practice with different people, and do custom games. That's about 12 private games (average 10-15 minute games) and then a little bit of time to go over replays.
That's a pretty underwhelming practice regime, all things considered. Streaming really isn't great practice for those top tier pros that need to perfect builds for tournaments.
On September 13 2012 09:16 Sadistx wrote: Wait, so you PAY them 600 euros/month AND you have an obligation to stream 150h AND they take a cut of the stream revenue?
This is bar none the worst deal in e-sports since KESPA stopped treating b-teamers like slave labor. At least b-teamers didn't have to pay the pro-gaming house. I'm actually sitting here laughing at how bad this is.
+food problems +they don't have a housecleaning service How did anyone sign this lol? Whole drama aside, this deal is just laughable.
They had a house cleaning service, We had a maid at the house 6 days a week for roughly 10 hours a day. The house was extremely clean at all times. Where did you even hear that?
The MinistryOfWin guy stated Fuzer didn't want to clean his room so I assumed they didn't have a housecleaning service.
There were a few things we were suppose to clean. Our rooms were suppose to stay tidy and we were suppose to make our beds.
Yeah so why have a maid 10 hours a day for 6 days a week, I don´t think what you said it´s 100% true mister Karmy. But anyways ....
How could you need 60 hours of maid labor a week? Sounds like ineffective maids. Or fabricated numbers.
On September 13 2012 09:23 LgNkarmy wrote: Okay guys stop talking about the streaming, It has nothing to do with anything. MoW promoted us as players a lot, They aloud us to run commercials with twitch, which many of us couldn't do before. So I went from making nothing, To making something and getting a small cut taken. Trust me the cut was small. So why does it matter? And when you're making money, Streaming 8 hours a day is NOTHING. We weren't suppose to stream the first 5 hours of the day because it was ment for custom practice and to improve. It was hard not to, I wanted to stream more, I wanted to run commericials, I wanted to double the streaming requirement. It wasn't hard to do it. You're blowing it way out of the water without even thinking behind it.
TLDR. Went from not making money from streaming, To making money from streaming with a small cut. Not a big deal, Almost expected.
With all due respect as an "unknown" player you are right its really nice. But lets say Ret has to do the streaming time, how can that be practice when loads of lesser players want to play him, therefore snipe him, or he cant practice new builds during that time because he wants to save them for a specific tournament?
He puts a goddamned delay on his stream or streams random fun stuff. Casts replays, analyzes play from others, enjoys himself.
These stream complaints are so stupid.
Why didn't Destiny hit 150 hours? Probably because he doesn't need to in order to survive, he's spending time with his kid, his girlfriend, at events, playing other games, etc. Ret's been streaming pretty constantly too, doesn't seem to have a problem with it. When all you have to do is Starcraft, you're going to do it a lot, use the streaming time to offrace, or play custom games. Really not a big deal, I work 8+ hours a day, physical labor, and often stream for 3-4 afterwords for shits and giggles, and normally to 0 people watching.
If it wasn't part of the contract in the first place and Fuzer only found out about it when he showed up at the house then sure, that's a little bit a of a problem. But I highly doubt it was never brought to his attention as it seems like a good way for MoW to lower their operating costs and if they have this deal with Twitch as it is then it's probably something that's been well in the works for a while.
On September 13 2012 09:29 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:24 LgNkarmy wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:21 Jarree wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
What if I have a contract in my desk stating you must pay me 100$ every month? Yes it states that. You didn't sign it? Too bad. Now the money please.
As I have said, Mistakes were made. Fuzer shouldn't have even though about moving without a contract first while paying so much a month, At the same time MoW already stated they will never allow a player to move in without the contract signed. Why can't we just agree that mistakes were made but it's nothing to blow up about...
Well that's a dismissive attitude, and with this story being less than a day old, it seems too soon to try to bury it and "put these things behind us and get on with our lives." (Pretend like they didn't happen as well).
Fear not, unless other players chime in, I see no long term damage to MoW. Fuzer aired his grievances and I think that's fine. MoW has responded, so whatever will be, will be.
The future's not ours to see.
...
I agree, Just from my point of view. I lived in the house, I was able to read the contract and NDA indepth, I know what was expected from us. All other players agreed to this. I'm not saying blow it under the rug, When it's brought up it's good to get both sides of the story, But everyone has both sides, Mistakes were admitted too. Everyone is pitch forking MoW for something they admitted was a mistake and won't happen in the future.
Most people are upset that he is losing 2000 (from a 2600 investment) for a 6 day stay all because they wouldn't let the lawyer read over the fine print...
It's one thing to have a contract and have someone disagree but to get a contract written in a foreign language that the participant doesn't understand fully and negate any legal aid is ridiculous.
On September 13 2012 09:28 LgNkarmy wrote: It wasn't 8 hours a day, What do you do while living in a pro gaming house? You play video games. I would play SC2 hours past our scheduled practice just because we were all there because we loved the game, we wanted to improve, and really it was the only thing to do at night until you went to bed. It was very easy to find time to get in a few hours of streaming. It wasn't 8 hours a day...
How many times do we have to go over this argument:
In the contract, it says 150 hours. That is 5 hours a day (assuming that it's an average 30/31 day month). If you're going to take 2 days off of streaming (which is being generous, most people only stream 2 or 3 days a week), you need to stream 7 hours for 5 days a week. Let's say that you're being somewhat realistic and allowing time to eat, get a good night's rest (8 hours), exercise, and socialize. That's about 10 hours left of the day (assuming 8 for sleeping, an hour per meal, an hour to exercise, 2 hours for socializing/relaxing). If you're streaming 7 hours, that only leaves you 3 hours of private practice. That's really not a lot to make new builds, practice with different people, and do custom games. That's about 12 private games (average 10-15 minute games) and then a little bit of time to go over replays.
That's a pretty underwhelming practice regime, all things considered. Streaming really isn't great practice for those top tier pros that need to perfect builds for tournaments.
On September 13 2012 09:16 Sadistx wrote: Wait, so you PAY them 600 euros/month AND you have an obligation to stream 150h AND they take a cut of the stream revenue?
This is bar none the worst deal in e-sports since KESPA stopped treating b-teamers like slave labor. At least b-teamers didn't have to pay the pro-gaming house. I'm actually sitting here laughing at how bad this is.
+food problems +they don't have a housecleaning service How did anyone sign this lol? Whole drama aside, this deal is just laughable.
They had a house cleaning service, We had a maid at the house 6 days a week for roughly 10 hours a day. The house was extremely clean at all times. Where did you even hear that?
The MinistryOfWin guy stated Fuzer didn't want to clean his room so I assumed they didn't have a housecleaning service.
There were a few things we were suppose to clean. Our rooms were suppose to stay tidy and we were suppose to make our beds.
Yeah so why have a maid 10 hours a day for 6 days a week, I don´t think what you said it´s 100% true mister Karmy. But anyways ....
Because the house was huge, and kept completely spotless. Doing dishes and cleaning the kitchen alone after cooking for roughly 15 people is a pretty big project. Not to mention all of our laundry, sheets, bedding, yard work, etc. All we had to do was make sure our clothes weren't all over the room, and our beds were made. Not much to take away from having a maid that kept the entire house clean.
On September 13 2012 09:16 Sadistx wrote: Wait, so you PAY them 600 euros/month AND you have an obligation to stream 150h AND they take a cut of the stream revenue?
This is bar none the worst deal in e-sports since KESPA stopped treating b-teamers like slave labor. At least b-teamers didn't have to pay the pro-gaming house. I'm actually sitting here laughing at how bad this is.
+food problems +they don't have a housecleaning service How did anyone sign this lol? Whole drama aside, this deal is just laughable.
They had a house cleaning service, We had a maid at the house 6 days a week for roughly 10 hours a day. The house was extremely clean at all times. Where did you even hear that?
The MinistryOfWin guy stated Fuzer didn't want to clean his room so I assumed they didn't have a housecleaning service.
There were a few things we were suppose to clean. Our rooms were suppose to stay tidy and we were suppose to make our beds.
Yeah so why have a maid 10 hours a day for 6 days a week, I don´t think what you said it´s 100% true mister Karmy. But anyways ....
Just because you have maid, it doesn't mean you dont have to behave yourself. It's couple of people living together, it's nice to have you envirnoment clean. Is it really hard to make your bed, to keep your desk quite clean (just don't leave cups, plates etc.) ? Prolly few minutes daily, but makes a big difference.
On September 13 2012 09:16 Sadistx wrote: Wait, so you PAY them 600 euros/month AND you have an obligation to stream 150h AND they take a cut of the stream revenue?
This is bar none the worst deal in e-sports since KESPA stopped treating b-teamers like slave labor. At least b-teamers didn't have to pay the pro-gaming house. I'm actually sitting here laughing at how bad this is.
+food problems +they don't have a housecleaning service How did anyone sign this lol? Whole drama aside, this deal is just laughable.
They had a house cleaning service, We had a maid at the house 6 days a week for roughly 10 hours a day. The house was extremely clean at all times. Where did you even hear that?
The MinistryOfWin guy stated Fuzer didn't want to clean his room so I assumed they didn't have a housecleaning service.
There were a few things we were suppose to clean. Our rooms were suppose to stay tidy and we were suppose to make our beds.
Yeah so why have a maid 10 hours a day for 6 days a week, I don´t think what you said it´s 100% true mister Karmy. But anyways ....
How could you need 60 hours of maid labor a week? Sounds like ineffective maids. Or fabricated numbers.
I thought the same, this Karmy guys comes and wants to fix everything. I´m not saying everything he said its false, but why overreact the numbers?? something fishy here
On September 13 2012 09:29 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:24 LgNkarmy wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:21 Jarree wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
What if I have a contract in my desk stating you must pay me 100$ every month? Yes it states that. You didn't sign it? Too bad. Now the money please.
As I have said, Mistakes were made. Fuzer shouldn't have even though about moving without a contract first while paying so much a month, At the same time MoW already stated they will never allow a player to move in without the contract signed. Why can't we just agree that mistakes were made but it's nothing to blow up about...
Well that's a dismissive attitude, and with this story being less than a day old, it seems too soon to try to bury it and "put these things behind us and get on with our lives." (Pretend like they didn't happen as well).
Fear not, unless other players chime in, I see no long term damage to MoW. Fuzer aired his grievances and I think that's fine. MoW has responded, so whatever will be, will be.
The future's not ours to see.
...
I agree, Just from my point of view. I lived in the house, I was able to read the contract and NDA indepth, I know what was expected from us. All other players agreed to this. I'm not saying blow it under the rug, When it's brought up it's good to get both sides of the story, But everyone has both sides, Mistakes were admitted too. Everyone is pitch forking MoW for something they admitted was a mistake and won't happen in the future.
The very final problem i see is:
Why did you have to step in and bring this to light? Why couldn't the Ministry of Win account use your words, instead of having to call Fuzer childish? (not saying they are wrong but you know, not the best way to handle it maybe?)
On September 13 2012 09:28 LgNkarmy wrote: It wasn't 8 hours a day, What do you do while living in a pro gaming house? You play video games. I would play SC2 hours past our scheduled practice just because we were all there because we loved the game, we wanted to improve, and really it was the only thing to do at night until you went to bed. It was very easy to find time to get in a few hours of streaming. It wasn't 8 hours a day...
You had 100 hour, not 150, which is a BIG different.
Streaming is not training, top streamers are not getting any better, which I assume is the goal of going to MoW in the first place.
Usually guys who play this game 8 hours a day actually get better you know. Not everyone is freaking Idra or Stephano and needs to hide strats from the public. A guy like fuzer would probably only play ladder at home anyway and having a training schedule and staying in a house with other players will help guys like that way more compared to the negative aspects of streaming.
So far every player who stayed there (except for Fuzer obv.) had a positive feedback, so I guess it can't be THAT bad.
On September 13 2012 09:29 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:24 LgNkarmy wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:21 Jarree wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
What if I have a contract in my desk stating you must pay me 100$ every month? Yes it states that. You didn't sign it? Too bad. Now the money please.
As I have said, Mistakes were made. Fuzer shouldn't have even though about moving without a contract first while paying so much a month, At the same time MoW already stated they will never allow a player to move in without the contract signed. Why can't we just agree that mistakes were made but it's nothing to blow up about...
Well that's a dismissive attitude, and with this story being less than a day old, it seems too soon to try to bury it and "put these things behind us and get on with our lives." (Pretend like they didn't happen as well).
Fear not, unless other players chime in, I see no long term damage to MoW. Fuzer aired his grievances and I think that's fine. MoW has responded, so whatever will be, will be.
The future's not ours to see.
...
I agree, Just from my point of view. I lived in the house, I was able to read the contract and NDA indepth, I know what was expected from us. All other players agreed to this. I'm not saying blow it under the rug, When it's brought up it's good to get both sides of the story, But everyone has both sides, Mistakes were admitted too. Everyone is pitch forking MoW for something they admitted was a mistake and won't happen in the future.
Most people are upset that he is losing 2000 (from a 2600 investment) for a 6 day stay all because they wouldn't let the lawyer read over the fine print...
It's one thing to have a contract and have someone disagree but to get a contract written in a foreign language that the participant doesn't understand fully and negate any legal aid is ridiculous.
MoW Offered to give him his money back and they go their seperate ways. He declined because he wanted to "shit on MoW" to the community.
On September 13 2012 09:16 Sadistx wrote: Wait, so you PAY them 600 euros/month AND you have an obligation to stream 150h AND they take a cut of the stream revenue?
This is bar none the worst deal in e-sports since KESPA stopped treating b-teamers like slave labor. At least b-teamers didn't have to pay the pro-gaming house. I'm actually sitting here laughing at how bad this is.
+food problems +they don't have a housecleaning service How did anyone sign this lol? Whole drama aside, this deal is just laughable.
They had a house cleaning service, We had a maid at the house 6 days a week for roughly 10 hours a day. The house was extremely clean at all times. Where did you even hear that?
What kind of house cleaning service is this lol? 6 days a week for 10 hours a day? What could they possibly spend so long of a time cleaning?
EPT
(Pretend like they didn't happen as well).
