On September 13 2012 09:29 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:24 LgNkarmy wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:21 Jarree wrote:
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
What if I have a contract in my desk stating you must pay me 100$ every month? Yes it states that. You didn't sign it? Too bad. Now the money please.
As I have said, Mistakes were made. Fuzer shouldn't have even though about moving without a contract first while paying so much a month, At the same time MoW already stated they will never allow a player to move in without the contract signed. Why can't we just agree that mistakes were made but it's nothing to blow up about...
Well that's a dismissive attitude, and with this story being less than a day old, it seems too soon to try to bury it and "put these things behind us and get on with our lives." (Pretend like they didn't happen as well).
Fear not, unless other players chime in, I see no long term damage to MoW. Fuzer aired his grievances and I think that's fine. MoW has responded, so whatever will be, will be.
The future's not ours to see.
...
I agree, Just from my point of view. I lived in the house, I was able to read the contract and NDA indepth, I know what was expected from us. All other players agreed to this. I'm not saying blow it under the rug, When it's brought up it's good to get both sides of the story, But everyone has both sides, Mistakes were admitted too. Everyone is pitch forking MoW for something they admitted was a mistake and won't happen in the future.
Most people are upset that he is losing 2000 (from a 2600 investment) for a 6 day stay all because they wouldn't let the lawyer read over the fine print...
It's one thing to have a contract and have someone disagree but to get a contract written in a foreign language that the participant doesn't understand fully and negate any legal aid is ridiculous.
MoW Offered to give him his money back and they go their seperate ways. He declined because he wanted to "shit on MoW" to the community.
We can shrug this guy off as biased now..
I'm not biased at all, Just no one is thinking logically. This entire community loves to hate, and when they have the chance they want to hate who is going to hurt more. Ruining MoW rep while they're so new hurts them a lot. It's just facts lol. I'm not biased at all. I agree MoW made mistakes, So did Fuzer. I just wanted to post what I knew from living in the house. If you don't want facts then I'll leave and you can continue to follow the crowd without proper information.
MoW Offered to give him his money back and they go their seperate ways. He declined because he wanted to "shit on MoW" to the community.
MoW literally threatened to not give the money if Fuzer goes public with the story. How is that offering? And it happened after Fuzer had posted the thing on facebook.
~20 posts of LgNkarmy defensive posts within few pages, just screams for this in my opinion.
Okay I'm out. I came to try and answer questions from my experience in the house. I wasn't "contracted by MoW" I actually left on bad terms with MoW and haven't talked to them in months. I just wanted to try and help the morons that wanted to flame and chase with your pitch forks. Enjoy your immature fight, I know the truth of what happened and if no one wants to know what happened that's fine. I'm out, Sorry for trying to help...
On September 13 2012 09:18 Xorphene wrote: I'd like to know if MoW actually have coaches for the players or if the players are expected to get better purely by collaborating with each other ?
We had coaches. We had Matiz who was an in house coach, and we practised/talked a lot between players. We had players and coaches online as well.
"had" "was" you use it in past-tense, which means you no longer have coaches.
He used past tense because he's not the house anymore. Are you that stupid?
~20 posts of LgNkarmy defensive posts within few pages, just screams for this in my opinion.
Okay I'm out. I came to try and answer questions from my experience in the house. I wasn't "contracted by MoW" I actually left on bad terms with MoW and haven't talked to them in months. I just wanted to try and help the morons that wanted to flame and chase with your pitch forks. Enjoy your immature fight, I know the truth of what happened and if no one wants to know what happened that's fine. I'm out, Sorry for trying to help...
On September 13 2012 08:57 btx0 wrote: This is ridiculous. 150h / month streaming, 10 year non compete, pressuring people into signing a contract without legal council, paying back money only after bad publicity and a very weak press release not addressing the issue at all. Unless these things get cleared up I'd be surprised to see anyone joining MoW.
LOL when you live in gaming house and you play only one game , why you DONT stream ? Its good for player fans to see them stream.. , people that are biching around that players stream to much lol.. its good for players also , they can make more fans by streams.
10 year non compete ? you dont even read this OP good. You can compete where you wanna. You just cant make your own gaming house and take ideas from MoW house , this is in document.
On September 13 2012 09:17 Ikuu wrote: MoW sounds shady as fuck. 10 year non-compete, forcing people to stream a certain number of hours and then taking a cut, and for some reason they need to sign an NDA.
another one.. read up.
Because Stream is NOT good for training. Polt suffered greatly when he non stop streamed, same with ForGG. And all the top streamer on TL is not getting any better.
Going by your logic...let pro gamers DONT STREAM , then what with us fans..? how to support players ? how to cheer for them.. ? Players wanna stream because of fans , and they make money from streaming. They have closed pratcice sesions in MoW house first 5 h of day , when they play custom games.. and there is time for stream for fans.. money.. and ladder.
I ask once agine ... you wanna players stop streams..? really ? I dont get you.
On September 13 2012 09:31 NeMeSiS3 wrote: What kind of fucking "press release" was that? What amateurs.... That was absolutely ridiculous just give the guy back his 2000 and piss off...
The actual "press release" as they call it states nothing it gives 2 interviews and... one paragraph? Ministry of Win is quickly turning into the Ministry of Shit
Maybe you should try to realise how biased you sound, before you accuse others of it. I've read through a lot of pages of this thread, and if I was to name 1friend of Fuzer in here it would be you.
~20 posts of LgNkarmy defensive posts within few pages, just screams for this in my opinion.
Okay I'm out. I came to try and answer questions from my experience in the house. I wasn't "contracted by MoW" I actually left on bad terms with MoW and haven't talked to them in months. I just wanted to try and help the morons that wanted to flame and chase with your pitch forks. Enjoy your immature fight, I know the truth of what happened and if no one wants to know what happened that's fine. I'm out, Sorry for trying to help...
It all seemed too suspicious, go practice some SC2. ITs better for you.
Just another eSports organization trying to steal money from the pockets of hard-working players. It's even more despicable that you're trying to screw someone over from a foreign country, who doesn't even speak english as their first language.
Just complete utter scum. I hope MoW cop the worst possible punishment.
So all of this drama is going on over less than $600? Because MoW wouldn't give the guy his rent money back after he refused to agree to the terms of a contract that wasn't even shown to him until after he arrived at the gaming house?
On September 13 2012 09:38 Snute wrote: It's funny. I remember my only words to Fuzer during my stay at the whole Battle at Ministry of Win tournament were these: "You need to take this seriously, you know." after 3-1. Somewhere inside I was cheering for him.
Now this.
Let's just say there's a reason some people get caught up into trouble and some people don't.
Chill is a wise man, he said it like this: "Guess what? If you don't like it, then don't live there. This is a privately-run house."
The thing is... You can complain a lot. The house is not perfect and now this. But you cannot take away the fact that they had the balls to try set up a gaming house in Europe, and they are still going at it, gathering some of Europe's finest players. I love that place. Not necessarily because it's a good house with all its fancy features, but because it's a place where people gather with the same dreams, hopes and goals - to improve. And not many people in Europe have the balls to do such a thing. The people make the place unique. People that leave everything behind for one simple purpose - self-improvement. Do you even know what it's like? This is currently the ONLY place in Europe that allows SC2-players to gather like this.
People were talking shit about how an European house would not help any of the players even before I got there! How it wouldn't make a difference. I can tell you, it did make a difference for me. At the very least I'm glad I didn't have to share house with skeptic people like those not even giving an European pro-house a chance to begin with. Those of you who don't believe in a combined fighting spirit are the ones who are contributing to us getting our asses kicked every time we meet a Korean. They are a bit closer to each other than we are, you know? They don't rest on their laurels after a loss. They are not the ones who say "Give up, it's impossible. Why even try."
Not taking sides here, but to be constructive regarding the gaming house situation in Europe ... Maybe some of you guys should put together a gaming house and show how us all how it's done? We are all united through the Internet after all. Let us create something beautiful. Set up your own house, I'll be happy to visit you. Or maybe you can apply for a job at a gaming house? Do something.
I lived in the Ministry of Win for months. I am that quiet kid in the back of the class, the 'good guy above all this shit'. What I have to say? I paid for the months, got what I wanted, told the managers whenever something was wrong, told them whatever was unacceptable, helped improve shit. If I needed something, I told them and they would fix it, although being short on manpower they fixed it as fast as they could. If I was to go back there now, I'd have zero troubles. Their setup is really good now. The Battle tournament was amazing. The current players are awesome. I would tell them if I was not happy with food. I would tell them to fix their stuff if something was wrong.
If there was any issue I'd just tell them straight up.
They never bitched about me not streaming as much. In the beginning there were some net issues that are fixed now. I was travelling a lot too. They were understanding. I'm sure if someone were smurfing/preparing for something truly important they would be understanding of that too. This is something you as a player can ASK about before you go there, if you so desire. If you don't like the response then negotiate more or don't go.
I went into this house with high ideals. Ideals I still hold. And I got what I came for. Good months of hard practice. Even though I'm still shit compared to the powerhouses you look up to, the people I look up to - stepha, nerchio, scarlett, etc - I've improved. I improved lots, made friends and experienced a new country, new impressions. I got what I wanted and I'm happy with the time I spent. I had the balls to go there and have no regrets.
If you don't want bad things to happen in your life then stop getting yourself into crappy situations, it's that simple. Why do you allow yourself to get into such spots in the first place? Check stuff out BEFORE you get on those planes and come prepared. Cooperate and don't be lazy when issues arise. If it takes less than five minutes to do just )$(!)#( do it !!
I'm not taking sides. I'm just here to be constructive, get some of my own experience out there while I work on my badass rocket ride to Korea.
♥ I think a lot of people missed this post, while I think it has quite a few good points.
On September 13 2012 08:57 btx0 wrote: This is ridiculous. 150h / month streaming, 10 year non compete, pressuring people into signing a contract without legal council, paying back money only after bad publicity and a very weak press release not addressing the issue at all. Unless these things get cleared up I'd be surprised to see anyone joining MoW.
LOL when you live in gaming house and you play only one game , why you DONT stream ? Its good for player fans to see them stream.. , people that are biching around that players stream to much lol.. its good for players also , they can make more fans by streams.
10 year non compete ? you dont even read this OP good. You can compete where you wanna. You just cant make your own gaming house and take ideas from MoW house , this is in document.
On September 13 2012 09:17 Ikuu wrote: MoW sounds shady as fuck. 10 year non-compete, forcing people to stream a certain number of hours and then taking a cut, and for some reason they need to sign an NDA.
another one.. read up.
Because Stream is NOT good for training. Polt suffered greatly when he non stop streamed, same with ForGG. And all the top streamer on TL is not getting any better.
Going by your logic...let pro gamers DONT STREAM , then what with us fans..? how to support players ? how to cheer for them.. ? Players wanna stream because of fans , and they make money from streaming. They have closed pratcice sesions in MoW house first 5 h of day , when they play custom games.. and there is time for stream for fans.. money.. and ladder.
I ask once agine ... you wanna players stop streams..? really ? I dont get you.
On September 13 2012 09:31 NeMeSiS3 wrote: What kind of fucking "press release" was that? What amateurs.... That was absolutely ridiculous just give the guy back his 2000 and piss off...
The actual "press release" as they call it states nothing it gives 2 interviews and... one paragraph? Ministry of Win is quickly turning into the Ministry of Shit
For someone not part of MoW management you seem to have an incredible amount of information about their practices and show a certain level of bias whilst wearing your rose-tinted glasses with the MoW logo on the lenses.
No .. i just can read.. what past residents of MoW are saying , everytinhg that i write was write already in this thread ( check KarmY post history , he write many times how pratcice looks in MoW "
Everyone that was , or is in MoW house never said bad thing abouth MoW , meh maby Desrow that polish food is not to healthy for him. Only Person that shit talks at MoW is Fuzer...only him why.. ? I dont know Fuzer , but many people write here is trolled many times on stream and he is BM in game .. maby here is the answer..
On September 13 2012 09:47 wozzot wrote: So all of this drama is going on over less than $600? Because MoW wouldn't give the guy his rent money back after he refused to agree to the terms of a contract that wasn't even shown to him until after he arrived in the gaming house?
what
It's over 600 EUROS.If you've been living in a cave for the last, idk, 20 years (?) you might not know this, but the Euro is worth about 1.5x the amount of the US dollar.
On September 13 2012 08:57 btx0 wrote: This is ridiculous. 150h / month streaming, 10 year non compete, pressuring people into signing a contract without legal council, paying back money only after bad publicity and a very weak press release not addressing the issue at all. Unless these things get cleared up I'd be surprised to see anyone joining MoW.
LOL when you live in gaming house and you play only one game , why you DONT stream ? Its good for player fans to see them stream.. , people that are biching around that players stream to much lol.. its good for players also , they can make more fans by streams.
10 year non compete ? you dont even read this OP good. You can compete where you wanna. You just cant make your own gaming house and take ideas from MoW house , this is in document.
On September 13 2012 09:17 Ikuu wrote: MoW sounds shady as fuck. 10 year non-compete, forcing people to stream a certain number of hours and then taking a cut, and for some reason they need to sign an NDA.
another one.. read up.
Because Stream is NOT good for training. Polt suffered greatly when he non stop streamed, same with ForGG. And all the top streamer on TL is not getting any better.
Going by your logic...let pro gamers DONT STREAM , then what with us fans..? how to support players ? how to cheer for them.. ? Players wanna stream because of fans , and they make money from streaming. They have closed pratcice sesions in MoW house first 5 h of day , when they play custom games.. and there is time for stream for fans.. money.. and ladder.
I ask once agine ... you wanna players stop streams..? really ? I dont get you.
On September 13 2012 09:31 NeMeSiS3 wrote: What kind of fucking "press release" was that? What amateurs.... That was absolutely ridiculous just give the guy back his 2000 and piss off...
The actual "press release" as they call it states nothing it gives 2 interviews and... one paragraph? Ministry of Win is quickly turning into the Ministry of Shit
For someone not part of MoW management you seem to have an incredible amount of information about their practices and show a certain level of bias whilst wearing your rose-tinted glasses with the MoW logo on the lenses.
No .. i just can read.. what past residents of MoW are saying , everytinhg that i write was write already in this thread ( check KarmY post history , he write many times how pratcice looks in MoW "
Everyone that was , or is in MoW house never said bad thing abouth MoW , meh maby Desrow that polish food is not to healthy for him. Only Person that shit talks at MoW is Fuzer...only him why.. ? I dont know Fuzer , but many people write here is trolled many times on stream and he is BM in game .. maby here is the answer..
On September 13 2012 09:23 LgNkarmy wrote: Okay guys stop talking about the streaming, It has nothing to do with anything. MoW promoted us as players a lot, They aloud us to run commercials with twitch, which many of us couldn't do before. So I went from making nothing, To making something and getting a small cut taken. Trust me the cut was small. So why does it matter? And when you're making money, Streaming 8 hours a day is NOTHING. We weren't suppose to stream the first 5 hours of the day because it was ment for custom practice and to improve. It was hard not to, I wanted to stream more, I wanted to run commericials, I wanted to double the streaming requirement. It wasn't hard to do it. You're blowing it way out of the water without even thinking behind it.
TLDR. Went from not making money from streaming, To making money from streaming with a small cut. Not a big deal, Almost expected.
With all due respect as an "unknown" player you are right its really nice. But lets say Ret has to do the streaming time, how can that be practice when loads of lesser players want to play him, therefore snipe him, or he cant practice new builds during that time because he wants to save them for a specific tournament?
He puts a goddamned delay on his stream or streams random fun stuff. Casts replays, analyzes play from others, enjoys himself.
These stream complaints are so stupid.
Why didn't Destiny hit 150 hours? Probably because he doesn't need to in order to survive, he's spending time with his kid, his girlfriend, at events, playing other games, etc. Ret's been streaming pretty constantly too, doesn't seem to have a problem with it. When all you have to do is Starcraft, you're going to do it a lot, use the streaming time to offrace, or play custom games. Really not a big deal, I work 8+ hours a day, physical labor, and often stream for 3-4 afterwords for shits and giggles, and normally to 0 people watching.
If it wasn't part of the contract in the first place and Fuzer only found out about it when he showed up at the house then sure, that's a little bit a of a problem. But I highly doubt it was never brought to his attention as it seems like a good way for MoW to lower their operating costs and if they have this deal with Twitch as it is then it's probably something that's been well in the works for a while.
Sorry to have offended you it just seems like a) a lot of time and b) why can't we treat playing starcraft as a normal 8 hour a day job? (lets even say that working sundays is normal here), then having 5 hours of not practice is a bunch. And there is a limited amount of time once can play, at least many pros have said that you get burned out if you play too much, and maybe players also want to have fun doing other things from time to time, thats the reason why the streaming is brought up a lot (at least i think)
Didn't offend me at all, and to be fair I'm simply more pissed about the ignorant attitudes of those attacking the streaming issue than something you said, sorry if it seemed like I was angry at you. This "treat it like an 8 hour a day job" thing is a good point, and something that isn't brought up often. Yeah, it can be an 8 hour a day job, but there are sacrifices to be made, sacrifices that wont necessarily hurt you. Playing an additional 3 hours a day allows you 6 hours of hardcore practice to your 5 hours of streaming, which can be considerably lighter, for instance. Or spending a day doing a 12 hour marathon streaming session to ease the streaming requirements for the other days are all going to help that.
It's simply that people are looking at the numbers involved and not accepting that there are other requirements or ways to handle exactly what's required of them.
EPT
(Pretend like they didn't happen as well).
