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On September 11 2012 05:41 EatThePath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 05:12 IronManSC wrote:
I'm not trying to be rude when I say this, so don't take this the wrong way...
Although it's always nice to see more friendly competition, the last thing we really need is another map-making team. What we need, as a mapping community, is sponsorship and people who actually give a crap about community maps on a regular basis. A new map team does not hurt your desired goal does it...? I'm just happy to see positive responses in an SC2 General thread about maps.
No? Think of it like this: There is this desert, and we plant apple seeds there, but there's no rain to make it grow. Another new map making team is like putting another apple seed with the ones already buried there, but there's still no rain to make them grow.
I don't know how you detected a sense of arrogance in something where I was simply addressing the higher, more broader issue that we mappers face.
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On September 11 2012 05:12 IronManSC wrote:
I'm not trying to be rude when I say this, so don't take this the wrong way...
Although it's always nice to see more friendly competition, the last thing we really need is another map-making team. What we need, as a mapping community, is sponsorship and people who actually give a crap about community maps on a regular basis.
It seems people are interested so far. Also, don't worry. We aren't going to just sit there and do nothing. We've got plans for the future  . Also, i have to say, i don't see how another team hurts any of the goals we, the mapmaking community, keep entertaining high hopes about : bringing awereness to melee maps, and getting tournaments to use those. We're doing one right now, and the other is in preparation, as thin as chances may be.
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Have you guys had any maps used by league currently or past? You might want to include them in the OP to help build an understanding of who you are. More map making is always welcome :D Keep up the good work.
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On September 11 2012 05:57 IronManSC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 05:41 EatThePath wrote:On September 11 2012 05:12 IronManSC wrote:
I'm not trying to be rude when I say this, so don't take this the wrong way...
Although it's always nice to see more friendly competition, the last thing we really need is another map-making team. What we need, as a mapping community, is sponsorship and people who actually give a crap about community maps on a regular basis. A new map team does not hurt your desired goal does it...? I'm just happy to see positive responses in an SC2 General thread about maps. No? Think of it like this: There is this desert, and we plant apple seeds there, but there's no rain to make it grow. Another new map making team is like putting another apple seed with the ones already buried there, but there's still no rain to make them grow. I don't know how you detected a sense of arrogance in something where I was simply addressing the higher, more broader issue that we mappers face.
There is absolutely no point to post that in this thread. You are being an inconsiderate jerk (like you usually are) by posting in this thread. Each one of these map makers has come a very long way from obscurity to creating some genuinely interesting maps.
Just because there isn't much incentive for mappers to make maps doesn't mean that we shouldn't have more people making them.
Now let me take my turn to be a jerk and say that these guys are making more interesting maps than you have ever produced. (Clarification, ESV as a whole has produced very many interesting maps. Ironman has not.)
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@IronManSC : well if you don't have sponsors you don't have the risk to see a new team show up and steal your sponsors. So no problem there, we'll just bring our own connections and ways of doing things on the table and that'll help the community, if we success in what we're doing your can learn from our example and/or benefit from the fame we'll bring to mapmaking, if we fail you can learn from our mistakes. You've got nothing to lose here, except maybe your pride in being the "one and only" mapmaking team.
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On September 11 2012 06:02 MapleFractal wrote:
Have you guys had any maps used by league currently or past? You might want to include them in the OP to help build an understanding of who you are. More map making is always welcome :D Keep up the good work.
We're fairly new to the scene, so not yet - but we're actively working on that, and we'll be sure to shout it from the rooftops when that happens :D
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To be frank all maps are a bit too alike. They are also similar to many ESV maps, promoting turtle plays. (pocket-y 3rd bases)
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On September 11 2012 05:41 EatThePath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 05:12 IronManSC wrote:
I'm not trying to be rude when I say this, so don't take this the wrong way...
Although it's always nice to see more friendly competition, the last thing we really need is another map-making team. What we need, as a mapping community, is sponsorship and people who actually give a crap about community maps on a regular basis. A new map team does not hurt your desired goal does it...? I'm just happy to see positive responses in an SC2 General thread about maps.
Not unless they make maps which aren't good enough for tournaments, but the tournament organizers don't know that so they use them. That would be my only fear in this. If I had to pick some community maps which are tournament worthy, none of these maps would be on the list. This team's a bit up-and-coming, which is fine, and I'm sure it has the ability to produce maps good enough for tournaments with just a little bit more improvement, but I might be concerned that tournament organizers don't know which maps to pick out of all the community maps.
Of course this is already the case aside from a new team forming, but I worry that a tournament might be more likely to pick up a lesser map if it's on a team. So it's up to the team to make sure they only let tournament-worthy maps used in tournaments, and don't just get excited to get their maps being looked at. ESV produces some maps that don't turn out good enough for tournaments, and it's important that we don't promote them, but instead go back and try to make a better map or improve them.
Competition between teams is fine, but I would fear that it would result in teams promoting their own maps over other better maps from other teams, which isn't really good for the community overall. So my hope would be that DF makes sure that a map is up to par with top TPW, Crux and ESV maps, and then worry about promoting it. The competition aught to be about trying to make better maps than the other teams, not out-promoting the other teams to get lesser maps in the pools.
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On September 11 2012 06:09 usethis2 wrote:
To be frank all maps are a bit too alike. They are also similar to many ESV maps, promoting turtle plays. (pocket-y 3rd bases)
I wouldn't say they are turtly. Absolution has a shorter rush distance than any tournament map natural to natural and main to main, and a lot of air vulnerability to the main. Ancient fates' third is a lot farther away than most, etc....
As for them being ESV - like, they also are similar to CruX and TPW maps, because we tried to make balanced, solid maps, and there's quite a few things you have to do to achieve that. Hopefully in HotS mappers will have more freedom
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On September 11 2012 06:19 Gfire wrote:
The competition aught to be about trying to make better maps than the other teams, not out-promoting the other teams to get lesser maps in the pools.
No offense, but the latter has been ESV's creed for a while. (Again, ESV on the whole makes many great maps, but they used their power to promote many terrible ones as well).
In summation: GOGO Dream Forge, make many good maps!
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On September 11 2012 06:19 Gfire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 05:41 EatThePath wrote:On September 11 2012 05:12 IronManSC wrote:
I'm not trying to be rude when I say this, so don't take this the wrong way...
Although it's always nice to see more friendly competition, the last thing we really need is another map-making team. What we need, as a mapping community, is sponsorship and people who actually give a crap about community maps on a regular basis. A new map team does not hurt your desired goal does it...? I'm just happy to see positive responses in an SC2 General thread about maps. Not unless they make maps which aren't good enough for tournaments, but the tournament organizers don't know that so they use them. That would be my only fear in this. If I had to pick some community maps which are tournament worthy, none of these maps would be on the list. This team's a bit up-and-coming, which is fine, and I'm sure it has the ability to produce maps good enough for tournaments with just a little bit more improvement, but I might be concerned that tournament organizers don't know which maps to pick out of all the community maps. Of course this is already the case aside from a new team forming, but I worry that a tournament might be more likely to pick up a lesser map if it's on a team. So it's up to the team to make sure they only let tournament-worthy maps used in tournaments, and don't just get excited to get their maps being looked at. ESV produces some maps that don't turn out good enough for tournaments, and it's important that we don't promote them, but instead go back and try to make a better map or improve them. Competition between teams is fine, but I would fear that it would result in teams promoting their own maps over other better maps from other teams, which isn't really good for the community overall. So my hope would be that DF makes sure that a map is up to par with top TPW, Crux and ESV maps, and then worry about promoting it. The competition aught to be about trying to make better maps than the other teams, not out-promoting the other teams to get lesser maps in the pools.
This is very well said. And it highlights the true aim for all of us mapmakers.
We should make the best maps possible. It's another thing entirely to choose the outstanding maps and promote them into competition. (But it generally falls to us as well to try and do that... even though outside forces have had far more success in promoting maps into competition use.)
But really we could use any of the top 25% of maps posted in the map forum and they'd be better than most of the competition maps we have seen to date, which remain by force of institution. (With a few exceptions like Cloud Kingdom and Ohana coming from the merit-based TL map contest.)
On September 11 2012 06:34 wrl wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 06:19 Gfire wrote:
The competition aught to be about trying to make better maps than the other teams, not out-promoting the other teams to get lesser maps in the pools. No offense, but the latter has been ESV's creed for a while. (Again, ESV on the whole makes many great maps, but they used their power to promote many terrible ones as well). . .
This is actually true too, but I can't fault them for advancing the map agenda generally. Heh.
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Wightbane gorge seems cool
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Well, Gfire, if you see problems with our maps, i think our mappers would be glad to know what those are. I believe quite a few map threads are already up - i'll edit those into the OP. You know you can always pm one of us to talk about maps.
I personally think all those maps are great, but then i might be a bit biased :D
On September 11 2012 06:39 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
Wightbane gorge seems cool
Glad to hear it 
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good skills . i would like one or two of those maps on next season to see how they do ballance wise
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On September 11 2012 05:12 IronManSC wrote:
I'm not trying to be rude when I say this, so don't take this the wrong way...
Although it's always nice to see more friendly competition, the last thing we really need is another map-making team. What we need, as a mapping community, is sponsorship and people who actually give a crap about community maps on a regular basis.
that's a really weird opinion to have because the two aren't mutually exclusive. More map teams does not mean less sponsorship/people who care about maps. And anyway, what are the people who want to make maps and form a small group together supposed to do? Stand back and watch ESV/CRUX/TPW steal the limelight simply because they were there first?
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The maps look pretty good. Since their isn't a good mapmaking team outside of Korea with Crux and prime teams, and I know Crux and prime both have Jacky, LS and Winpark, competition in Korean for mapmaking teams isn't there haha.
its nice to see one popping up for the foreign scene, we need good mapmakers.
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Damn all of these maps look SICK! I can't wait to see gameplay on them, these are really amazing... I think some of the best i've seen since SC2 release! Keep them coming!
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On September 11 2012 06:55 xsnac wrote:
good skills . i would like one or two of those maps on next season to see how they do ballance wise
Thanks a lot ! I sure would too :D
If you want, you can try them yourself. It's still a bit of a mess because we're having a tough time working around time zones, but there should be at most if those maps on your server, whether in melee or arcade. Absolution, Blackthorns, Gehenna and Bazaar are fore sure up on EU ; Absolution, Bazaar, Wightbane Gorge and Ancient Fates on NA. Dust devils will be up when Australian internet decides to work :D
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On September 11 2012 07:03 masterbreti wrote:
The maps look pretty good. Since their isn't a good mapmaking team outside of Korea with Crux and prime teams, and I know Crux and prime both have Jacky, LS and Winpark, competition in Korean for mapmaking teams isn't there haha.
its nice to see one popping up for the foreign scene, we need good mapmakers.
There are already 2 foreign mapping teams; ESV and TPW. Jacky is no longer on Crux and has been on ESV for a while. LS is no longer a member of the prime clan but is still a member of crux.
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They seems nice!! Good Job!
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EPT
