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51453 Posts
All players have resigned with their original team.
First phase of Free Agency is over
On September 11 2012 10:47 GTR wrote:http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=66491Jaehoon has failed to negotiate a new contract with Team 8, and apparently is planning to retire if he can't receive a contract of his liking in the next couple of weeks or so (which I'll be honest, will probably not happen). RorO, hyvaa and ZerO agreed to new contracts with their current teams.
Tomorrow (7th September) will mark the beginning of the Free Agency period for this year.
Eligible Free Agents this season are  ZerO (Woongjin), hyvaa (STX), RorO (Samsung) and  Jaehoon (Team 8).
The process is as follows;
- The player's current team will have the first right to offer a contract, if negotiations break down, another team may provide an offer of better value.
From 9/7 to 9/10 begins the contract offer period from the players original team. If there is no contract accepted during this time, other teams are allowed to offer a contract to the player (from 9/11 to 9/20). If in this period there is once again no contract offer/acceptance of contract, the player will once again renegotiate with their original team (9/21 to 9/24).
Source: http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=66316
T/N: The wording of the final paragraph had really formal language which was somewhat difficult to grasp, so if a native Korean speaker could correct me on it, it would be appreciated.
+ Show Spoiler +9월 7일(금) 오후 3시 협회에서 진행되는 FA 대상자 교육을 시작으로 본격적인 FA 일정이 진행된다. 9월 7일(금)부터 9월 10일(월)까지 원소속 게임단과의 우선협상이 진행되고, 협상이 결렬되어 FA 선언을 한 선수는 9월 11일(화)부터 9월 20일(목) 기간 동안 영입의향 게임단과의 이적협상이 진행된다. 입찰이 되지 않은 선수는 최종적으로 9월 21일(금) 부터 9월 24일(월) 기간 동안 원소속 게임단과 재협상을 실시하는 것으로 FA 일정이 마무리 된다.
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Zero, Roro :O woah
Roro is top3 Kespa sc2 player...
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Nice! Is there a limitation to who can participate in this Free Agency negotiation? Is it only intra-Kespa or will we see ESF teams possibly bid for them?
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Does anyone know if eSF teams are allowed to make an offer on the same level as kespa teams ?
EDIT: Oh yeah the trade lock thing, I forgot about that. Thanks.
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Zero, Roro would both be super good picks for anyone
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
I honestly doubt anyone will be changing teams.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On September 06 2012 21:05 Sbrubbles wrote:
Nice! Is there a limitation to who can participate in this Free Agency negotiation? Is it only intra-Kespa or will we see ESF teams possibly bid for them?
the agreement works both ways, not just kespa teams trying to grab esf players.
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It would be nice to see some of them go to a esF team but I really doubt any of them other than Jaehoon could be dropped. Roro and Zero are both really good zergs with the former being a top 10 SC2 Zerg.
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ESF teams can barely offer their players contracts money, I don't see how they can afford these guys unless they make very low salary. ~$15k.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Why is RoRo'S contract already running out? He just joined Khan! Should have given him a longer contract lol, he can demand quite a raise.
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no player transfers until october 2013 (between ESF and KeSPA-teams that is). This is just between the KeSPA teams.
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oh man, I have a feeling ZerO is going to be totally sick at this game in the future. Snag his ass.
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On September 06 2012 21:12 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
oh man, I have a feeling ZerO is going to be totally sick at this game in the future. Snag his ass.
people have been saying this about Zero and BW since his breakout season like 4-5 years ago lol
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On September 06 2012 21:05 SpiZe wrote:
Does anyone know if eSF teams are allowed to make an offer on the same level as kespa teams ?
Trade lock dude.
On the other hand, some big dawgs are available wow. ZerO and RorO. Don't know about ZerO but RorO must be drooling some mouths. Jaehoon and hyvaa have been regular A-teamers too, especially hyvaa has been rising recently.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On September 06 2012 21:09 blamekilly wrote:
ESF teams can barely offer their players contracts money, I don't see how they can afford these guys unless they make very low salary. ~$15k.
where have you heard that? o.O
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can the players choose where they want to go?
example : both teams offered the same contract, can the players switch teams?
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On September 06 2012 21:17 ffrozenfish wrote:
can the players choose where they want to go?
example : both teams offered the same contract, can the players switch teams?
i guess thats the point of being a free agent
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I see none of these players moving, except mayyyybe hyvaa.
ZerO is like the face of Stars, they aren't gonna let him go.
RorO has been really good since he moved to KHAN, especially at SC2, they will want to keep him around.
Jaehoon, well, its jaehoon bitches, he'll stay around and do what he does.
hyvaa is mediocre, always has been really, but he's a stable mainstay at STX so in all likelihood I would guess he'll get a new contract with very similar pay to before and he'll take it, I don't see other teams being particularly keen on picking him up
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SKT1 takes both ZerO and RorO to finally have a legit Zerg line. ~~
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On September 06 2012 21:23 Gosi wrote:
SKT1 takes both ZerO and RorO to finally have a legit Zerg line. ~~
Then they forget everything and relearn from Hyuk and become SKT zergs.
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Ok. So lets say the player wouldn't accept the team offer by 9/24.
Will he be eligible to go to:
a) foreign team
b) eSF team
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On September 06 2012 21:23 Gosi wrote:
SKT1 takes both ZerO and RorO to finally have a legit Zerg line. ~~
Ever heard of GoRush and JulyZerg? :p
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SKT Roro please.
Probably never gonna happen.
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United Kingdom38255 Posts
On September 06 2012 21:49 Frankon wrote:
Ok. So lets say the player wouldn't accept the team offer by 9/24.
Will he be eligible to go to:
a) foreign team
b) eSF team
a) probably, I don't see how you can stop that? If he's not contracted by anyone and there's no agreement with foreign teams there's no reason to presume foreign teams couldn't then try their hands to sign someone with the temptation of money and overseas travel.
b) no, there's an agreement not to sign players across organizations for a year.
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The process is as follows;
- The player's current team will have the first right to offer a contract, if negotiations break down, another team may provide an offer of better value.
From 9/7 to 9/10 begins the internal team contract offer. If there is no contract accepted during this time, external teams are allowed to offer a contract to the player (from 9/11 to 9/20). If in this period there is once again no contract offer/acceptance of contract, the player will once again renegotiate with their original team (9/21 to 9/24).
Sounds like a really bad system for the players, or? They can't compare offers while negotiating with their current team and (most of them) can't really use the interest of other teams to pressure the current team. When a player enters stage 2 it's kinda official that he has to accept a horrible contract (or no contract) in stage 3 when he doesn't find someone in stage 2... really weak starting point to get a decent contract.
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On September 06 2012 21:13 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 21:12 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
oh man, I have a feeling ZerO is going to be totally sick at this game in the future. Snag his ass. people have been saying this about Zero and BW since his breakout season like 4-5 years ago lol
Because barely losing to Jangbi (the champion) in ro4 isn't good enough.
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On September 06 2012 21:57 Uncreative_Troll wrote:Show nested quote +The process is as follows;
- The player's current team will have the first right to offer a contract, if negotiations break down, another team may provide an offer of better value.
From 9/7 to 9/10 begins the internal team contract offer. If there is no contract accepted during this time, external teams are allowed to offer a contract to the player (from 9/11 to 9/20). If in this period there is once again no contract offer/acceptance of contract, the player will once again renegotiate with their original team (9/21 to 9/24).
Sounds like a really bad system for the players, or? They can't compare offers while negotiating with their current team and (most of them) can't really use the interest of other teams to pressure the current team. When a player enters stage 2 it's kinda official that he has to accept a horrible contract (or no contract) in stage 3 when he doesn't find someone in stage 2... really weak starting point to get a decent contract.
In many sports, there are different tiers/types of free agency. This one sounds like restricted free agency.
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On September 06 2012 21:54 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 21:23 Gosi wrote:
SKT1 takes both ZerO and RorO to finally have a legit Zerg line. ~~ Ever heard of GoRush and JulyZerg? :p
JulyZerg accomplished what during the month he was on SKT?
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On September 06 2012 22:12 SnowFantasy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 21:54 sharkie wrote:On September 06 2012 21:23 Gosi wrote:
SKT1 takes both ZerO and RorO to finally have a legit Zerg line. ~~ Ever heard of GoRush and JulyZerg? :p JulyZerg accomplished what during the month he was on SKT?
Seems like you didn't get my point.
I mean good zergs transfering to SKT become mediocre :p
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ok 
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I hope a Korean team signs stephano
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Roro is going to get a huge raise.
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On September 06 2012 21:49 Frankon wrote:
Ok. So lets say the player wouldn't accept the team offer by 9/24.
Will he be eligible to go to:
a) foreign team
b) eSF team
eSF no, there is a trade lock.
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Was never a big follower of BW, can anyone enlighten me around how much do these people make?
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On September 06 2012 21:09 blamekilly wrote:
ESF teams can barely offer their players contracts money, I don't see how they can afford these guys unless they make very low salary. ~$15k.
then the question is do these players want money or freedom?
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On September 06 2012 23:21 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 21:09 blamekilly wrote:
ESF teams can barely offer their players contracts money, I don't see how they can afford these guys unless they make very low salary. ~$15k. then the question is do these players want money or freedom?
Actually, the choice is more about whether they want a good stable salary and an ideal training environment, or neither.
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On September 06 2012 22:49 antifan wrote:
I hope a Korean team signs stephano
if it's a KeSPA team, that would mean no international tournament besides MLG, that's a no for me!
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On September 06 2012 23:52 LeLfe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 22:49 antifan wrote:
I hope a Korean team signs stephano if it's a KeSPA team, that would mean no international tournament besides MLG, that's a no for me!
If it's an ESF team though, that would mean no monetary income besides tournament prize money, that would be a no for him too I guess.
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Roro should bargain hard.
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On September 06 2012 23:55 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 23:52 LeLfe wrote:On September 06 2012 22:49 antifan wrote:
I hope a Korean team signs stephano if it's a KeSPA team, that would mean no international tournament besides MLG, that's a no for me! If it's an ESF team though, that would mean no monetary income besides tournament prize money, that would be a no for him too I guess.
never mind im bad at reading
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On September 06 2012 23:55 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 23:52 LeLfe wrote:On September 06 2012 22:49 antifan wrote:
I hope a Korean team signs stephano if it's a KeSPA team, that would mean no international tournament besides MLG, that's a no for me! If it's an ESF team though, that would mean no monetary income besides tournament prize money, that would be a no for him too I guess.
a.k.a., "a farce."
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On September 06 2012 23:56 sinigang wrote:
Roro should bargain hard.
RorO's salary is very likely to get doubled. He has been very successful in SC2, which PL is completely switching into. There are at most 2-3 other players that are in his caliber (Sun, Flying and maybe herO[jOin]?) That's it though.
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As someone who's new to following this, I'm amazed by how badly this is structured for the players. They can't negotiate with both their team and other teams at the same time? Imagine you're the player - you have no idea what other teams would offer you, so you have to just take a wild guess when deciding on whether to re-sign with your old team at first. Then you go talk to other teams. If it turns out your team had the best offer, you're sort of stuck - you can't take it while you still have the other offers on the table. If you wait and let that period end, you lose all bargaining power. During phase 3 your old team can offer you next to nothing and you still have to take it. You have no bargaining power at all. So realistically you have to take the best thing you get offered during phase 2.
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On September 07 2012 00:01 aristarchus wrote:
As someone who's new to following this, I'm amazed by how badly this is structured for the players. They can't negotiate with both their team and other teams at the same time? Imagine you're the player - you have no idea what other teams would offer you, so you have to just take a wild guess when deciding on whether to re-sign with your old team at first. Then you go talk to other teams. If it turns out your team had the best offer, you're sort of stuck - you can't take it while you still have the other offers on the table. If you wait and let that period end, you lose all bargaining power. During phase 3 your old team can offer you next to nothing and you still have to take it. You have no bargaining power at all. So realistically you have to take the best thing you get offered during phase 2.
Yes to everything you said. History has seen more than 1 player totally screwed over by free agency.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
a part of why this structure is pretty exploitative on the players is that gaming skills isn't very useful outside of gaming. no surprise to many here i suspect
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On September 07 2012 00:01 aristarchus wrote:
As someone who's new to following this, I'm amazed by how badly this is structured for the players. They can't negotiate with both their team and other teams at the same time? Imagine you're the player - you have no idea what other teams would offer you, so you have to just take a wild guess when deciding on whether to re-sign with your old team at first. Then you go talk to other teams. If it turns out your team had the best offer, you're sort of stuck - you can't take it while you still have the other offers on the table. If you wait and let that period end, you lose all bargaining power. During phase 3 your old team can offer you next to nothing and you still have to take it. You have no bargaining power at all. So realistically you have to take the best thing you get offered during phase 2.
But that doesn't happen. Teams offer the same deal in phase 3 they had proposed in phase 1.
They would take too much PR damage if they didn't.
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On September 07 2012 01:19 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 00:01 aristarchus wrote:
As someone who's new to following this, I'm amazed by how badly this is structured for the players. They can't negotiate with both their team and other teams at the same time? Imagine you're the player - you have no idea what other teams would offer you, so you have to just take a wild guess when deciding on whether to re-sign with your old team at first. Then you go talk to other teams. If it turns out your team had the best offer, you're sort of stuck - you can't take it while you still have the other offers on the table. If you wait and let that period end, you lose all bargaining power. During phase 3 your old team can offer you next to nothing and you still have to take it. You have no bargaining power at all. So realistically you have to take the best thing you get offered during phase 2. But that doesn't happen. Teams offer the same deal in phase 3 they had proposed in phase 1. They would take too much PR damage if they didn't.
If that was reliably true, then what you should see is no one ever taking a contract in phase 1 - if the offer will still be there later, there is no downside to seeing what other teams offer. Now, I'm new to it and maybe that's what occurs... but if it ever does, it means that the player themself at least isn't convinced the offer will still be there later.
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Wow that's quite similar to NFL. That is one of the good sides of kespa they have made standards for all of the player processes. It should be interesting what happens to roro he is a pretty good sc2 player
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On September 07 2012 00:01 aristarchus wrote:
As someone who's new to following this, I'm amazed by how badly this is structured for the players. They can't negotiate with both their team and other teams at the same time? Imagine you're the player - you have no idea what other teams would offer you, so you have to just take a wild guess when deciding on whether to re-sign with your old team at first. Then you go talk to other teams. If it turns out your team had the best offer, you're sort of stuck - you can't take it while you still have the other offers on the table. If you wait and let that period end, you lose all bargaining power. During phase 3 your old team can offer you next to nothing and you still have to take it. You have no bargaining power at all. So realistically you have to take the best thing you get offered during phase 2.
In theory what you say is true and players have potential to be screwed over and over.
But players generally get what they deserves (aka results).
If you have a monster Proleague round, you can bet on getting a huge raise.
The only problem I have with it is that contracts are yearly or more and the life of a progamer is short.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On September 07 2012 03:49 YourGoodFriend wrote:
Wow that's quite similar to NFL. That is one of the good sides of kespa they have made standards for all of the player processes. It should be interesting what happens to roro he is a pretty good sc2 player
you do realize the nfl is also an owners dominated league with few player rights right
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From what I have picked up from reading the forums throughout the last few months, I do not think that a player can go from a Kespa team to free agency and then to an ESF team due to the "no trade agreement" or whatever it was. However, I do think it is possible for a Kespa player to go from a Kespa team to a "foreign" team.
It will be really interesting to see what happens in the upcoming weeks. Especially if RorO plays as well as he has been playing. I think that he has a really good shot at impacting the SC2 scene along with Jaedong and EffOrt as far as Zergs go.
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On September 07 2012 03:53 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 03:49 YourGoodFriend wrote:
Wow that's quite similar to NFL. That is one of the good sides of kespa they have made standards for all of the player processes. It should be interesting what happens to roro he is a pretty good sc2 player you do realize the nfl is also an owners dominated league with few player rights right
That's what happens when the owners have all the money and all the leverage.
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On September 07 2012 01:38 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 01:19 sharkie wrote:On September 07 2012 00:01 aristarchus wrote:
As someone who's new to following this, I'm amazed by how badly this is structured for the players. They can't negotiate with both their team and other teams at the same time? Imagine you're the player - you have no idea what other teams would offer you, so you have to just take a wild guess when deciding on whether to re-sign with your old team at first. Then you go talk to other teams. If it turns out your team had the best offer, you're sort of stuck - you can't take it while you still have the other offers on the table. If you wait and let that period end, you lose all bargaining power. During phase 3 your old team can offer you next to nothing and you still have to take it. You have no bargaining power at all. So realistically you have to take the best thing you get offered during phase 2. But that doesn't happen. Teams offer the same deal in phase 3 they had proposed in phase 1. They would take too much PR damage if they didn't. If that was reliably true, then what you should see is no one ever taking a contract in phase 1 - if the offer will still be there later, there is no downside to seeing what other teams offer. Now, I'm new to it and maybe that's what occurs... but if it ever does, it means that the player themself at least isn't convinced the offer will still be there later.
The Asian mentality doesn't really allow this.
Why should a player decide to look at other offers if the team he wants to stay in offers him a good salary with terms he wants?
But yeah last year we had a few in phase 2 and then resigning with their teams in phase 3.
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Ah lets see what the free slave trade brings in this year.
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On September 07 2012 04:19 Medrea wrote:
Ah lets see what the free slave trade brings in this year.
Hehe. Funny thing is that slave usually gets paid more than freed people.
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On September 07 2012 04:20 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:19 Medrea wrote:
Ah lets see what the free slave trade brings in this year. Hehe. Funny thing is that slave usually gets paid more than freed people.
Not unless its an A lister.
Many free agency players get bought back by the original team for a fraction of what they were originally making. Thereby commiting esports sudoku.
Also, its still bad practice that the player doesnt get to choose what team they go to.
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United States23455 Posts
As a KT fan, I'd love Roro or Zero, but seeing as neither Samsung or Stars are poor, both are core players, and it's almost impossible for a player to ever leave their team during "free agency", almost nothing will change.
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U mean sepuku aka harakiri...sudoko is a game, no?
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On September 07 2012 04:31 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:20 jidolboy wrote:On September 07 2012 04:19 Medrea wrote:
Ah lets see what the free slave trade brings in this year. Hehe. Funny thing is that slave usually gets paid more than freed people. Not unless its an A lister. Many free agency players get bought back by the original team for a fraction of what they were originally making. Thereby commiting esports sudoku. Also, its still bad practice that the player doesnt get to choose what team they go to.
I was talking about current Free Agents -.-
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On September 07 2012 04:38 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:31 Medrea wrote:On September 07 2012 04:20 jidolboy wrote:On September 07 2012 04:19 Medrea wrote:
Ah lets see what the free slave trade brings in this year. Hehe. Funny thing is that slave usually gets paid more than freed people. Not unless its an A lister. Many free agency players get bought back by the original team for a fraction of what they were originally making. Thereby commiting esports sudoku. Also, its still bad practice that the player doesnt get to choose what team they go to. I was talking about current Free Agents -.-
Well lets see where the players go then. If they don't go anywhere, bad news bears for that player. Kespa free slave agency are not friendly waters to test.
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On September 06 2012 21:08 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 21:05 Sbrubbles wrote:
Nice! Is there a limitation to who can participate in this Free Agency negotiation? Is it only intra-Kespa or will we see ESF teams possibly bid for them? the agreement works both ways, not just kespa teams trying to grab esf players.
I thought there was a no-trading between ESF and Kespa agreement for a year though, isn't there?
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is awesome32274 Posts
On September 07 2012 04:31 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:20 jidolboy wrote:On September 07 2012 04:19 Medrea wrote:
Ah lets see what the free slave trade brings in this year. Hehe. Funny thing is that slave usually gets paid more than freed people. Not unless its an A lister. Many free agency players get bought back by the original team for a fraction of what they were originally making. Thereby commiting esports sudoku. Also, its still bad practice that the player doesnt get to choose what team they go to.
lol.
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Since its Kespa I'm assuming the players are limited to the current 8 teams (well not ace cause theyre disbanding very very soon)
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On September 07 2012 05:35 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:31 Medrea wrote:On September 07 2012 04:20 jidolboy wrote:On September 07 2012 04:19 Medrea wrote:
Ah lets see what the free slave trade brings in this year. Hehe. Funny thing is that slave usually gets paid more than freed people. Not unless its an A lister. Many free agency players get bought back by the original team for a fraction of what they were originally making. Thereby commiting esports sudoku. Also, its still bad practice that the player doesnt get to choose what team they go to. lol.
Ah im glad someone got it. Brings a smile to my face everytime I write it.
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ZerO won't be going anywhere. RorO could possibly move, but I'm sure Samsung will try to keep him. Overall, KeSPA free agency period is usually boring.. if anything its more interesting to hear what kind of contracts they get
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Roro is gonna be worth a lot of money. I'm willing to bet he will fetch quite a price on the market right now.
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That's well timed for Roro, somebody is getting a great raise !
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Omg Jaehoon no :'( T8 needs you!
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So there's not that retarded "pay double the original salary" or whatever it was rule?
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RorO will definitely be of interest!
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jaehoon's gonna get eaten
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No way anyone gets a pay rise.
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On September 07 2012 05:25 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 21:08 BLinD-RawR wrote:On September 06 2012 21:05 Sbrubbles wrote:
Nice! Is there a limitation to who can participate in this Free Agency negotiation? Is it only intra-Kespa or will we see ESF teams possibly bid for them? the agreement works both ways, not just kespa teams trying to grab esf players. I thought there was a no-trading between ESF and Kespa agreement for a year though, isn't there?
Yes thats true. People end up forgetting about the no movement contract till 2013 between ESF and Kespa..
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jaehoon and hyvva can both retire and go to army
zero..hmm he is aiite
whoever gets roro is a jack pot
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can foreign teams bid on KESPA players since they arent part of the ESF? I would give my firstborn for EGJaedong
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On September 07 2012 14:38 hunts wrote:
can foreign teams bid on KESPA players since they arent part of the ESF?
Maybe, but they wouldn't be able to afford them and they would have to have their Kespa progaming license revoked (kespa would do this if they left for a foreign team which would be a dumb decision).
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Hyvaa and Jaehoon might not be picked up by any team.
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ZerO and RorO?!?! Dude how incredible would it be if they were picked up by foreign teams!??!
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Zero kinda issss stars. don't really see him moving anywhere.
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On September 07 2012 04:31 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:20 jidolboy wrote:On September 07 2012 04:19 Medrea wrote:
Ah lets see what the free slave trade brings in this year. Hehe. Funny thing is that slave usually gets paid more than freed people. Also, its still bad practice that the player doesnt get to choose what team they go to.
Bad for whom? If they're not being silly, the players will still gets paid a very decent salary proportional to their skill level whichever team they sign for.
More importantly, that practice prevents the creation of superteams and keeps the teams as balanced as possible by encouraging the players to stay with their teams (with ACE being the obvious exception).
If there wasn't some structure in place to prevent a full-on competition between the teams for signing players, we would have seen more teams fold much faster than they did over the years and it would have been bad for everyone.
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KHAN, KEEP THAT ASS ON YOUR TEAM!! :D
roro, too good. Sort of funny that it's the first time he's really been seen as dominant. Now people REALLY won't want to put him on their anti, if we can get fpl started again.
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On September 07 2012 12:58 FabledIntegral wrote:
So there's not that retarded "pay double the original salary" or whatever it was rule?
Stats showed an amazing performance in the last year of his contract and his salary got doubled. Why not the same thing for RorO?
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On September 07 2012 15:18 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 12:58 FabledIntegral wrote:
So there's not that retarded "pay double the original salary" or whatever it was rule? Stats showed an amazing performance in the last year of his contract and his salary got doubled. Why not the same thing for RorO?
No doubt he deserves a big pay raise. What he means (I think) is that there is a rule that any other team that wants to buy roro has to pay double his original salary at the minimum, which they may not really want to do in the first place (so it sort of favors Khan). The fact that he probably does deserve a doubling of his pay sort of mitigates that problem though, yeah
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When the last time free agents changed teams?
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I wonder who would actually take Jaehoon other than T8...
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Kespa is Evil and should be destroyed.
User was warned for this post
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On September 07 2012 15:18 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 12:58 FabledIntegral wrote:
So there's not that retarded "pay double the original salary" or whatever it was rule? Stats showed an amazing performance in the last year of his contract and his salary got doubled. Why not the same thing for RorO?
Because that isn't even remotely relevant to what I said.
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now its time for EG to acquire a new zerg players in addition to stephano
perfect timing i say
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I used to like SKT zergs, s2, soO, Hyuk, but all of them seems to be awful at SC2, so I wouldn't mind if T1 would pick RorO !
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On September 07 2012 15:08 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:31 Medrea wrote:On September 07 2012 04:20 jidolboy wrote:On September 07 2012 04:19 Medrea wrote:
Ah lets see what the free slave trade brings in this year. Hehe. Funny thing is that slave usually gets paid more than freed people. Also, its still bad practice that the player doesnt get to choose what team they go to. Bad for whom? If they're not being silly, the players will still gets paid a very decent salary proportional to their skill level whichever team they sign for. More importantly, that practice prevents the creation of superteams and keeps the teams as balanced as possible by encouraging the players to stay with their teams (with ACE being the obvious exception). If there wasn't some structure in place to prevent a full-on competition between the teams for signing players, we would have seen more teams fold much faster than they did over the years and it would have been bad for everyone.
I think this post deserves to be highlighted for those who don't like the current system.
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Beyond Trade Lock, KeSPA has very elaborate rules for who qualifies for free agency. The first time they tried this, players had to have held their licenses for at least three years or something, needed to have participated in a minimum number of games during the last proleague season, and some other stuff I can't recall.
I don't know if the qualifications are simpler this time around, but seeing the few number of players up for it, I'd say they're still quite restricting.
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Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
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United States1719 Posts
On September 06 2012 21:02 GTR wrote:From 9/7 to 9/10 begins the contract offer period from the players original team. If there is no contract accepted during this time, other teams are allowed to offer a contract to the player (from 9/11 to 9/20). If in this period there is once again no contract offer/acceptance of contract, the player will once again renegotiate with their original team (9/21 to 9/24). Source: http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=66316T/N: The wording of the final paragraph had really formal language which was somewhat difficult to grasp, so if a native Korean speaker could correct me on it, it would be appreciated. + Show Spoiler +9월 7일(금) 오후 3시 협회에서 진행되는 FA 대상자 교육을 시작으로 본격적인 FA 일정이 진행된다. 9월 7일(금)부터 9월 10일(월)까지 원소속 게임단과의 우선협상이 진행되고, 협상이 결렬되어 FA 선언을 한 선수는 9월 11일(화)부터 9월 20일(목) 기간 동안 영입의향 게임단과의 이적협상이 진행된다. 입찰이 되지 않은 선수는 최종적으로 9월 21일(금) 부터 9월 24일(월) 기간 동안 원소속 게임단과 재협상을 실시하는 것으로 FA 일정이 마무리 된다.
you got it right, any corrections made would be nitpicking.
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On September 07 2012 16:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
if you want the players get less money go ahead
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On September 07 2012 16:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
if you want the players get less money go ahead
They can join ESF 
They'll be protected, earn a decent money, and won't be representing the Evil Kespa so the sponsors might even be happier.
And I am not even mentioning the quality of Kespa's events on the international side, that hurts the sponsors as well.
Plus as I said, I think Samsung is a good company and I have one of their product in my possession, but I hate the fact that they support Kespa, and will consider switching to another mobile phone brand because of that, I think I am not alone.
So I say, money is not the point, Kespa totally locked the BW scene, destroying any chance for the game to develop anywhere and also blocking huge money opportunities for the players by doing so, and they are gonna try again with sc2, be sure.
So let's just burn them down
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On September 07 2012 17:29 CV-Mackh wrote: Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 16:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
if you want the players get less money go ahead They can join ESF They'll be protected, earn a decent money, and won't be representing the Evil Kespa so the sponsors might even be happier. And I am not even mentioning the quality of Kespa's events on the international side, that hurts the sponsors as well. Plus as I said, I think Samsung is a good company and I have one of their product in my possession, but I hate the fact that they support Kespa, and will consider switching to another mobile phone brand because of they support to Kespa. So I say, money is not the point, Kespa totally locked the BW scene, destroying any chance for the game to develop anywhere also blocking huge money opportunity, and they are gonna try again with sc2, be sure. So let's just burn them down
did kespa...murder your parents? o.O my condolences
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On September 07 2012 17:33 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 17:29 CV-Mackh wrote: On September 07 2012 16:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
if you want the players get less money go ahead They can join ESF They'll be protected, earn a decent money, and won't be representing the Evil Kespa so the sponsors might even be happier. And I am not even mentioning the quality of Kespa's events on the international side, that hurts the sponsors as well. Plus as I said, I think Samsung is a good company and I have one of their product in my possession, but I hate the fact that they support Kespa, and will consider switching to another mobile phone brand because of they support to Kespa. So I say, money is not the point, Kespa totally locked the BW scene, destroying any chance for the game to develop anywhere also blocking huge money opportunity, and they are gonna try again with sc2, be sure. So let's just burn them down did kespa...murder your parents? o.O my condolences
That sums it up quite a bit : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168895
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On September 07 2012 17:29 CV-Mackh wrote: Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 16:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
if you want the players get less money go ahead They can join ESF They'll be protected, earn a decent money, and won't be representing the Evil Kespa so the sponsors might even be happier. And I am not even mentioning the quality of Kespa's events on the international side, that hurts the sponsors as well. Plus as I said, I think Samsung is a good company and I have one of their product in my possession, but I hate the fact that they support Kespa, and will consider switching to another mobile phone brand because of that, I think I am not alone. So I say, money is not the point, Kespa totally locked the BW scene, destroying any chance for the game to develop anywhere and also blocking huge money opportunities for the players by doing so, and they are gonna try again with sc2, be sure. So let's just burn them down
I don't think it's KeSPA's fault that there wasn't much of a BW scene outside of Korea...
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On September 07 2012 17:29 CV-Mackh wrote: Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 16:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
if you want the players get less money go ahead They can join ESF They'll be protected, earn a decent money So I say, money is not the point, Kespa totally locked the BW scene, destroying any chance for the game to develop anywhere and also blocking huge money opportunities for the players by doing so.
Dont know if trolling or serious. But i laughed anyway. I hope ESF die off and stronger teams (ST, LGIM etc.) just join kespa.
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United States1719 Posts
On September 07 2012 17:40 CV-Mackh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 17:33 jinorazi wrote:On September 07 2012 17:29 CV-Mackh wrote: On September 07 2012 16:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
if you want the players get less money go ahead They can join ESF They'll be protected, earn a decent money, and won't be representing the Evil Kespa so the sponsors might even be happier. And I am not even mentioning the quality of Kespa's events on the international side, that hurts the sponsors as well. Plus as I said, I think Samsung is a good company and I have one of their product in my possession, but I hate the fact that they support Kespa, and will consider switching to another mobile phone brand because of they support to Kespa. So I say, money is not the point, Kespa totally locked the BW scene, destroying any chance for the game to develop anywhere also blocking huge money opportunity, and they are gonna try again with sc2, be sure. So let's just burn them down did kespa...murder your parents? o.O my condolences That sums it up quite a bit : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168895
that's just one side of the story. From kespa's point of view, blizzard hasn't done anything to promote or maintain BW in close to a decade. The Korean esports scene was cultivated entirely on its own and is tertiary content that merely uses BW as a medium of competition. Just like how James Naismith, inventor of basketball, does not have ownership to the broadcasting rights of the NBA, WNBA, the basketball section of the Olympics, and college basketball. I'm neutral towards Kespa by the way, I just think your construal on KeSPA's involvement in the esports scene is overly simplified and one-sided.
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On September 07 2012 17:44 rebdomine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 17:29 CV-Mackh wrote: On September 07 2012 16:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
if you want the players get less money go ahead They can join ESF They'll be protected, earn a decent money, and won't be representing the Evil Kespa so the sponsors might even be happier. And I am not even mentioning the quality of Kespa's events on the international side, that hurts the sponsors as well. Plus as I said, I think Samsung is a good company and I have one of their product in my possession, but I hate the fact that they support Kespa, and will consider switching to another mobile phone brand because of that, I think I am not alone. So I say, money is not the point, Kespa totally locked the BW scene, destroying any chance for the game to develop anywhere and also blocking huge money opportunities for the players by doing so, and they are gonna try again with sc2, be sure. So let's just burn them down I don't think it's KeSPA's fault that there wasn't much of a BW scene outside of Korea...
They locked it even inside Korea, which is part of the point there : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168895
The part about them paying journalists to diss Sc2 and Nada is quite interesting
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There is always bunch of online people who hate something. Just because they are koreans doenst mean it has any more value than youtube comments or reddit. Just haters hating BLIZZARD, FIFA, EA, NHL, NBA, KESPA or whatever else thats big and succesfull.
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On September 07 2012 17:46 rotinegg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 17:40 CV-Mackh wrote:On September 07 2012 17:33 jinorazi wrote:On September 07 2012 17:29 CV-Mackh wrote: On September 07 2012 16:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
if you want the players get less money go ahead They can join ESF They'll be protected, earn a decent money, and won't be representing the Evil Kespa so the sponsors might even be happier. And I am not even mentioning the quality of Kespa's events on the international side, that hurts the sponsors as well. Plus as I said, I think Samsung is a good company and I have one of their product in my possession, but I hate the fact that they support Kespa, and will consider switching to another mobile phone brand because of they support to Kespa. So I say, money is not the point, Kespa totally locked the BW scene, destroying any chance for the game to develop anywhere also blocking huge money opportunity, and they are gonna try again with sc2, be sure. So let's just burn them down did kespa...murder your parents? o.O my condolences That sums it up quite a bit : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168895 that's just one side of the story. From kespa's point of view, blizzard hasn't done anything to promote or maintain BW in close to a decade. The Korean esports scene was cultivated entirely on its own and is tertiary content that merely uses BW as a medium of competition. Just like how James Naismith, inventor of basketball, does not have ownership to the broadcasting rights of the NBA, WNBA, the basketball section of the Olympics, and college basketball.
yeah but that's a sport, probably developed in many years of popular games and stuff, the guy probably just wrote therules officially.
Here we are talking software engineering. Don't you have to pay to use word ? or Photoshop ? Don't you have to pay even more if you are using them to make money.
I am not clear with Korean laws on intellectual property and competition, but can't you sue a competitor if he is using illegal ways to gain an advantage over you ? Like for say, if you are a company paying for photoshop and your competitor is not, then, In France you can sue them as they are using illegal means to overcome you.
Softwares are included in that arn't they.
Plus all the other ways to lock down sc2 with fake articles, pressure on players and stuff
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Word, Photoshop and StarCraft would be like the actual ball though. After you pay for that it's free.
Starcraft as a sport was developed in many years of popular games and stuff, Blizzard just wrote the rules officially.
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RoRo will be an interesting fighting point.
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On September 07 2012 17:50 Michaels wrote:There is always bunch of online people who hate something. Just because they are koreans doenst mean it has any more value than youtube comments or reddit. Just haters hating BLIZZARD, FIFA, EA, NHL, NBA, KESPA or whatever else thats big and succesfull.
I am not hating SOMETHING just randomly for it's success,plus in comparison Gom is way more successful than Kespa when it comes to audience, production quality, etc, and as it comes to the plau, I won't enter those details as each person can judge a player on his own terms.
I am hating the very actions and spirit of Kespa, locking teams to a single event, threats on players, fake articles, use of biased contracts, global pressure on the BW( and soon sc2) scene.
Lot of elements I can't bear, not just hating for the sake of it. But once again the post sums it up. I might bump it soon with a shortened version, because he is indeed quite long.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168895
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This thread is getting derailed fast.
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On September 07 2012 17:57 SnowFantasy wrote:
Word, Photoshop and StarCraft would be like the actual ball though. After you pay for that it's free.
Starcraft as a sport was developed in many years of popular games and stuff, Blizzard just wrote the rules officially.
Not at all XD They Keyboard would be the ball, or the mouse to keep on with the analogy.
Sc2 is the actual stadium, and you have to PAY to sit in and watch, and footballs federation are paying to get stadiums to keep on with their standards, plus I think TV's are paying to broadcast from a stadium.
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On September 07 2012 18:02 Dodgin wrote:
This thread is getting derailed fast.
BW vs SC2 tarts will never die
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United States1719 Posts
On September 07 2012 17:54 CV-Mackh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 17:46 rotinegg wrote:On September 07 2012 17:40 CV-Mackh wrote:On September 07 2012 17:33 jinorazi wrote:On September 07 2012 17:29 CV-Mackh wrote: On September 07 2012 16:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
if you want the players get less money go ahead They can join ESF They'll be protected, earn a decent money, and won't be representing the Evil Kespa so the sponsors might even be happier. And I am not even mentioning the quality of Kespa's events on the international side, that hurts the sponsors as well. Plus as I said, I think Samsung is a good company and I have one of their product in my possession, but I hate the fact that they support Kespa, and will consider switching to another mobile phone brand because of they support to Kespa. So I say, money is not the point, Kespa totally locked the BW scene, destroying any chance for the game to develop anywhere also blocking huge money opportunity, and they are gonna try again with sc2, be sure. So let's just burn them down did kespa...murder your parents? o.O my condolences That sums it up quite a bit : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168895 that's just one side of the story. From kespa's point of view, blizzard hasn't done anything to promote or maintain BW in close to a decade. The Korean esports scene was cultivated entirely on its own and is tertiary content that merely uses BW as a medium of competition. Just like how James Naismith, inventor of basketball, does not have ownership to the broadcasting rights of the NBA, WNBA, the basketball section of the Olympics, and college basketball. yeah but that's a sport, probably developed in many years of popular games and stuff, the guy probably just wrote therules officially. Here we are talking software engineering. Don't you have to pay to use word ? or Photoshop ? Don't you have to pay even more if you are using them to make money. I am not clear with Korean laws on intellectual property and competition, but can't you sue a competitor if he is using illegal ways to gain an advantage over you ? Like for say, if you are a company paying for photoshop and your competitor is not, then, In France you can sue them as they are using illegal means to overcome you. Softwares are included in that arn't they. Plus all the other ways to lock down sc2 with fake articles, pressure on players and stuff
those aren't fake articles, SC2 really did do horribly in Korea after a much anticipated launch, and since KeSPA was in a lawsuit against blizzard regarding broadcasting rights to both BW and SC2, KeSPA had every right to refuse to send their players to GOM's events, who was working directly with blizzard. If you look at it from KeSPA's view, blizzard released a game called BW that happened to pick up and do well in south Korea, and while blizzard did nothing to support it for a decade, a huge competitive scene grew organically with the support of passionate players and fans. Once enough money got involved through corporate sponsorship, blizzard saw the money in it, and decided to all the sudden claim what KeSPA was doing is intellectual property infringement, and asked for royalties from an already established industry that they took no part in building. again, it's a two-sided story, it's not like KeSPA's a giant corporation making money hand over fist, they just want to keep what they believe is rightfully theirs.
edit: and stop quoting that article, you already linked it like 5 times, it's nothing but an angry Korean netizen with a completely subjective opinion piece on how much KeSPA sucks, i think we get the point.
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On September 07 2012 18:04 rotinegg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 17:54 CV-Mackh wrote:On September 07 2012 17:46 rotinegg wrote:On September 07 2012 17:40 CV-Mackh wrote:On September 07 2012 17:33 jinorazi wrote:On September 07 2012 17:29 CV-Mackh wrote: On September 07 2012 16:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
if you want the players get less money go ahead They can join ESF They'll be protected, earn a decent money, and won't be representing the Evil Kespa so the sponsors might even be happier. And I am not even mentioning the quality of Kespa's events on the international side, that hurts the sponsors as well. Plus as I said, I think Samsung is a good company and I have one of their product in my possession, but I hate the fact that they support Kespa, and will consider switching to another mobile phone brand because of they support to Kespa. So I say, money is not the point, Kespa totally locked the BW scene, destroying any chance for the game to develop anywhere also blocking huge money opportunity, and they are gonna try again with sc2, be sure. So let's just burn them down did kespa...murder your parents? o.O my condolences That sums it up quite a bit : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168895 that's just one side of the story. From kespa's point of view, blizzard hasn't done anything to promote or maintain BW in close to a decade. The Korean esports scene was cultivated entirely on its own and is tertiary content that merely uses BW as a medium of competition. Just like how James Naismith, inventor of basketball, does not have ownership to the broadcasting rights of the NBA, WNBA, the basketball section of the Olympics, and college basketball. yeah but that's a sport, probably developed in many years of popular games and stuff, the guy probably just wrote therules officially. Here we are talking software engineering. Don't you have to pay to use word ? or Photoshop ? Don't you have to pay even more if you are using them to make money. I am not clear with Korean laws on intellectual property and competition, but can't you sue a competitor if he is using illegal ways to gain an advantage over you ? Like for say, if you are a company paying for photoshop and your competitor is not, then, In France you can sue them as they are using illegal means to overcome you. Softwares are included in that arn't they. Plus all the other ways to lock down sc2 with fake articles, pressure on players and stuff those aren't fake articles, SC2 really did do horribly in Korea after a much anticipated launch, and since KeSPA was in a lawsuit against blizzard regarding broadcasting rights to both BW and SC2, KeSPA had every right to refuse to send their players to GOM's events, who was working directly with blizzard. If you look at it from KeSPA's view, blizzard released a game called BW that happened to pick up and do well in south Korea, and while blizzard did nothing to support it for a decade, a huge competitive scene grew organically with the support of passionate players and fans. Once enough money got involved through corporate sponsorship, blizzard saw the money in it, and decided to all the sudden claim what KeSPA was doing is intellectual property infringement, and asked for royalties from an already established industry that they took no part in building. again, it's a two-sided story, it's not like KeSPA's a giant corporation making money hand over fist, they just want to keep what they believe is rightfully theirs. edit: and stop quoting that article, you already linked it like 5 times, it's nothing but an angry Korean netizen with a completely subjective opinion piece on how much KeSPA sucks, i think we get the point.
That's the pretty story you like to tell
XD If blizzard wanted the money, why would they accept a 1 dollar check from Gom ?
I think this is the official speech, you might be working for Kespa deer, I saw the exact same argument everywhere on Kespa side sticking to the very word.
"We built a championship and Blizzard just wants money" ... yeah right, and let's assume just half a second that this was even remotely true ( which it isn't as Blizzard never took money from GOM ).
That doesn't justify the all: kill the gom thing or the pressure they put on teams and players.
They are not defending anything there, they are building a monopoly with under the belt means, and this should be known and stoped.
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On September 07 2012 18:14 CV-Mackh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 18:04 rotinegg wrote:On September 07 2012 17:54 CV-Mackh wrote:On September 07 2012 17:46 rotinegg wrote:On September 07 2012 17:40 CV-Mackh wrote:On September 07 2012 17:33 jinorazi wrote:On September 07 2012 17:29 CV-Mackh wrote: On September 07 2012 16:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
if you want the players get less money go ahead They can join ESF They'll be protected, earn a decent money, and won't be representing the Evil Kespa so the sponsors might even be happier. And I am not even mentioning the quality of Kespa's events on the international side, that hurts the sponsors as well. Plus as I said, I think Samsung is a good company and I have one of their product in my possession, but I hate the fact that they support Kespa, and will consider switching to another mobile phone brand because of they support to Kespa. So I say, money is not the point, Kespa totally locked the BW scene, destroying any chance for the game to develop anywhere also blocking huge money opportunity, and they are gonna try again with sc2, be sure. So let's just burn them down did kespa...murder your parents? o.O my condolences That sums it up quite a bit : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168895 that's just one side of the story. From kespa's point of view, blizzard hasn't done anything to promote or maintain BW in close to a decade. The Korean esports scene was cultivated entirely on its own and is tertiary content that merely uses BW as a medium of competition. Just like how James Naismith, inventor of basketball, does not have ownership to the broadcasting rights of the NBA, WNBA, the basketball section of the Olympics, and college basketball. yeah but that's a sport, probably developed in many years of popular games and stuff, the guy probably just wrote therules officially. Here we are talking software engineering. Don't you have to pay to use word ? or Photoshop ? Don't you have to pay even more if you are using them to make money. I am not clear with Korean laws on intellectual property and competition, but can't you sue a competitor if he is using illegal ways to gain an advantage over you ? Like for say, if you are a company paying for photoshop and your competitor is not, then, In France you can sue them as they are using illegal means to overcome you. Softwares are included in that arn't they. Plus all the other ways to lock down sc2 with fake articles, pressure on players and stuff those aren't fake articles, SC2 really did do horribly in Korea after a much anticipated launch, and since KeSPA was in a lawsuit against blizzard regarding broadcasting rights to both BW and SC2, KeSPA had every right to refuse to send their players to GOM's events, who was working directly with blizzard. If you look at it from KeSPA's view, blizzard released a game called BW that happened to pick up and do well in south Korea, and while blizzard did nothing to support it for a decade, a huge competitive scene grew organically with the support of passionate players and fans. Once enough money got involved through corporate sponsorship, blizzard saw the money in it, and decided to all the sudden claim what KeSPA was doing is intellectual property infringement, and asked for royalties from an already established industry that they took no part in building. again, it's a two-sided story, it's not like KeSPA's a giant corporation making money hand over fist, they just want to keep what they believe is rightfully theirs. edit: and stop quoting that article, you already linked it like 5 times, it's nothing but an angry Korean netizen with a completely subjective opinion piece on how much KeSPA sucks, i think we get the point. That's the pretty story you like to tell XD If blizzard wanted the money, why would they accept a 1 dollar check from Gom ? I think this is the official speech, you might be working for Kespa deer, I saw the exact same argument everywhere on Kespa side sticking to the very word. "We built a championship and Blizzard just wants money" ... yeah right, and let's assume just half a second that this was even remotely true ( which it isn't as Blizzard never took money from GOM ). That doesn't justify the all: kill the gom thing or the pressure they put on teams and players. They are not defending anything there, they are building a monopoly with under the belt means, and this should be known and stoped.
Man....my head hurts...to reply with more information to broaden your perspective or ignore and sleep....the latter i guess, dont think youll care for anything other than negativity towards kespa.
Just to add...did u really say bllizzard doesnt care about money for esports using gom as example?....lol
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United States1719 Posts
Im gonna stop derailing this thread, seeing as how you're crafting lulzy theories about me working for KeSPA.
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On September 07 2012 00:00 Djagulingu wrote:RorO's salary is very likely to get doubled. He has been very successful in SC2, which PL is completely switching into. There are at most 2-3 other players that are in his caliber (Sun, Flying and maybe herO[jOin]?) That's it though.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=players&id=622&part=games&league=standard
Am I missing something?
Edit: Oh I see now, he has some WCS results excluded. I guess that explains it a little bit... Still not impressed with him personally.
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On September 07 2012 18:01 CV-Mackh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 17:50 Michaels wrote:There is always bunch of online people who hate something. Just because they are koreans doenst mean it has any more value than youtube comments or reddit. Just haters hating BLIZZARD, FIFA, EA, NHL, NBA, KESPA or whatever else thats big and succesfull. I am not hating SOMETHING just randomly for it's success,plus in comparison Gom is way more successful than Kespa when it comes to audience, production quality, etc, and as it comes to the plau, I won't enter those details as each person can judge a player on his own terms. I am hating the very actions and spirit of Kespa, locking teams to a single event, threats on players, fake articles, use of biased contracts, global pressure on the BW( and soon sc2) scene. Lot of elements I can't bear, not just hating for the sake of it. But once again the post sums it up. I might bump it soon with a shortened version, because he is indeed quite long. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168895
dude, you are clueless.
i hope Roro goes to T8, Jaedong would need that support since they have no other decent zerg. But ofc he is going to SKT or KT like all players that show some potential... $$$
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On September 07 2012 17:54 CV-Mackh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 17:46 rotinegg wrote:On September 07 2012 17:40 CV-Mackh wrote:On September 07 2012 17:33 jinorazi wrote:On September 07 2012 17:29 CV-Mackh wrote: On September 07 2012 16:27 CV-Mackh wrote:
Couldn't we simply go over there and burn the Kespa office with flamethrowers, then simply broadcast GSL on Korean TV ?
if you want the players get less money go ahead They can join ESF They'll be protected, earn a decent money, and won't be representing the Evil Kespa so the sponsors might even be happier. And I am not even mentioning the quality of Kespa's events on the international side, that hurts the sponsors as well. Plus as I said, I think Samsung is a good company and I have one of their product in my possession, but I hate the fact that they support Kespa, and will consider switching to another mobile phone brand because of they support to Kespa. So I say, money is not the point, Kespa totally locked the BW scene, destroying any chance for the game to develop anywhere also blocking huge money opportunity, and they are gonna try again with sc2, be sure. So let's just burn them down did kespa...murder your parents? o.O my condolences That sums it up quite a bit : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168895 that's just one side of the story. From kespa's point of view, blizzard hasn't done anything to promote or maintain BW in close to a decade. The Korean esports scene was cultivated entirely on its own and is tertiary content that merely uses BW as a medium of competition. Just like how James Naismith, inventor of basketball, does not have ownership to the broadcasting rights of the NBA, WNBA, the basketball section of the Olympics, and college basketball. yeah but that's a sport, probably developed in many years of popular games and stuff, the guy probably just wrote therules officially. Here we are talking software engineering. Don't you have to pay to use word ? or Photoshop ? Don't you have to pay even more if you are using them to make money. I am not clear with Korean laws on intellectual property and competition, but can't you sue a competitor if he is using illegal ways to gain an advantage over you ? Like for say, if you are a company paying for photoshop and your competitor is not, then, In France you can sue them as they are using illegal means to overcome you. Softwares are included in that arn't they. Plus all the other ways to lock down sc2 with fake articles, pressure on players and stuff
Wow, you really are clueless. If I write a book using MS Word, I will not have to pay royalties to Microsoft from the sales the book makes. If I use Photoshop to create textures for a new game, I will not have to pay Adobe royalties from the sales the game makes.
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On September 07 2012 18:21 rotinegg wrote:
Im gonna stop derailing this thread, seeing as how you're crafting lulzy theories about me working for KeSPA.
Sorry my english betrayed me, I meant : You sound just like the people working there.
But yeah I'll take the surrender happily, as I see you are all lacking arguments
So time to enjoy GSTL 
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Btw :
Additional License Limitations.
The license granted to you in Section 1 above is subject to the limitations set forth in Sections 1 and 2 (collectively, the “License Limitations”). Any use of the Game in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of Blizzard’s copyrights in and to the Game. You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:
c. Exploit the Game or any of its parts for any commercial purpose without Blizzard’s express permission, with the sole exception that you may use the Game, or copies of the Game, on the Service at a cyber cafe, computer gaming center or any other location based site;
Quite straightforward isn't it ?
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Zero....why? Now I cant root for the dynamic WJ zerg duo.
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Since this is international forum can we get dates in usual international form and not american one? thanks.
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51453 Posts
Holy shit, any more derailment to this thread and bans will be imminent.
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On September 07 2012 18:50 sheaRZerg wrote:
Zero....why? Now I cant root for the dynamic WJ zerg duo.
I highly doubt anyone is gonna be changing teams.
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On September 06 2012 21:09 blamekilly wrote:
ESF teams can barely offer their players contracts money, I don't see how they can afford these guys unless they make very low salary. ~$15k.
15k? id be suprised be they get anything above 5k per year
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On September 07 2012 19:08 ThePlayer33 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 21:09 blamekilly wrote:
ESF teams can barely offer their players contracts money, I don't see how they can afford these guys unless they make very low salary. ~$15k. 15k? id be suprised be they get anything above 5k per year
5k per year? You do realise how little that is right.
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On September 07 2012 19:04 rebdomine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 18:50 sheaRZerg wrote:
Zero....why? Now I cant root for the dynamic WJ zerg duo. I highly doubt anyone is gonna be changing teams.
Given this system? Ya. I don't think anything would change. I don't think any of these guys can negotiate a foreign contract of any sort that can force a pay raise. Not yet anyways.
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Does EG count as ESF? Poach Roro. =D
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Zero and roro would be good pick ups, but stay way away from failhoon.
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On September 07 2012 18:29 J1.au wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 00:00 Djagulingu wrote:On September 06 2012 23:56 sinigang wrote:
Roro should bargain hard. RorO's salary is very likely to get doubled. He has been very successful in SC2, which PL is completely switching into. There are at most 2-3 other players that are in his caliber (Sun, Flying and maybe herO[jOin]?) That's it though. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=players&id=622&part=games&league=standardAm I missing something? Edit: Oh I see now, he has some WCS results excluded. I guess that explains it a little bit... Still not impressed with him personally.
You should have seen his games.
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This is a good times for Roro to get much better salary, with being one of the best Kespa players in Sc2 and Samsung being in the finals.
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Wow those are some pretty damn good player. And Jaehoon.
Can't see any of them being let go though.
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On September 07 2012 21:49 Rah wrote:
Does EG count as ESF? Poach Roro. =D
Not exactly poaching if he's a free agent..
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eg can get roro and forget about stephano xD
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Canada1169 Posts
:/ hate that we wont see Kespa -> eSF trades ):
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Yeah it would be nice if EG picked one of them up...
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ZerO please stay :D w/us!
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On September 07 2012 23:52 InsidiA wrote:
:/ hate that we wont see Kespa -> eSF trades ):
They couldn't afford him even if they were allowed to.
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Even if they could afford Kespa pros (by the way some ESF teams have budgets and sick sponsors. IM), they aren't gonna do it because KeSPA and ESF are on trade lockdown. Has everyone forgotten? lol
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Roro will be picked up really fast.
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Wow, wasn't expecting Roro to be a free agent.
One of the best Kespa players to transition to SC2 at the moment - I expect him to be picked up quickly.
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Isn't their one team, slayers I think, that isn't in the esf that could grab these guys? If they can afford it of course
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On September 08 2012 04:57 sam05396 wrote:
Isn't their one team, slayers I think, that isn't in the esf that could grab these guys? If they can afford it of course
Slayers is also part of the agreement.
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Roro should get snatched up instantly, this stuff happens a lot in pro sports too so Im guessing its just some market checking by one of the sides that should be resolved once the FA period actually starts.
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United States10160 Posts
O man. Zero and Roro?! Jaehoon lulz. hyvaaaaaa <3
nothing KT needs really
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On September 08 2012 05:06 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 04:57 sam05396 wrote:
Isn't their one team, slayers I think, that isn't in the esf that could grab these guys? If they can afford it of course Slayers is also part of the agreement.
Maybe I was just thinking of fnatic as they are pretty much a Korean team to me.
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Wow those are all some of the best the sc2 kespa players, I hope they get good contracts and I would even be nice to some of them get picked foreign teams.
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EG picks up ZerO and RorO because they aren't part of the ESF, they come to EG Lair and train with IdrA + Stephano. They all become the best zergs ever. The "EG Curse" is lifted, EG wins the next GSTL with their line up of Stephano, RorO, ZerO, JYP, and Pewma. IdrA wins MLG winter. Stephano wins IPL. RorO and ZerO face off in the GSL finals of next season. The EG haters have nothing left to hate on aside from their deep pockets. GGnore.
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Time for IM to bring out there checkbooks lol Pick up Zero And RorO
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United States10160 Posts
On September 07 2012 19:08 ThePlayer33 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 21:09 blamekilly wrote:
ESF teams can barely offer their players contracts money, I don't see how they can afford these guys unless they make very low salary. ~$15k. 15k? id be suprised be they get anything above 5k per year
you do realize flash made like 600k one year after KT won the spl finals right?
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On September 08 2012 08:59 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 19:08 ThePlayer33 wrote:On September 06 2012 21:09 blamekilly wrote:
ESF teams can barely offer their players contracts money, I don't see how they can afford these guys unless they make very low salary. ~$15k. 15k? id be suprised be they get anything above 5k per year you do realize flash made like 600k one year after KT won the spl finals right?
doubt he continues to make that money or if he does, I doubt anyone has anything close to that
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On September 08 2012 11:17 fortheGG wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 08:59 FlaShFTW wrote:On September 07 2012 19:08 ThePlayer33 wrote:On September 06 2012 21:09 blamekilly wrote:
ESF teams can barely offer their players contracts money, I don't see how they can afford these guys unless they make very low salary. ~$15k. 15k? id be suprised be they get anything above 5k per year you do realize flash made like 600k one year after KT won the spl finals right? doubt he continues to make that money or if he does, I doubt anyone has anything close to that
Its a 2 year contracts.
And BoxeR (could be NaDa) once made 750K a year.
Once upon a time.
Jaedong was making 100K at his prime, but that`s because OZ was litteraly a sweatshop for the guy.
But Bisu have been consistently making 200K + since his trade from MBC.
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Now if only I could provide enough money to sponsor a team to get these players on it. So sad that I'm poor as a individual who cannot run a SC2 team with these free agents ;(.
Reminds me of MLB 05' with all the free agents maybe gaming companies will make a manager of a Starcraft team game sometime xD
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I can't wait to see what lucky team is gonna get Roro
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On September 08 2012 12:22 jaxjaguars wrote:
I can't wait to see what lucky team is gonna get Roro
Probably ending up back with Samsung
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lets go Jaehoon woohoo :D:D:D
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On September 08 2012 11:33 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 11:17 fortheGG wrote:On September 08 2012 08:59 FlaShFTW wrote:On September 07 2012 19:08 ThePlayer33 wrote:On September 06 2012 21:09 blamekilly wrote:
ESF teams can barely offer their players contracts money, I don't see how they can afford these guys unless they make very low salary. ~$15k. 15k? id be suprised be they get anything above 5k per year you do realize flash made like 600k one year after KT won the spl finals right? doubt he continues to make that money or if he does, I doubt anyone has anything close to that Its a 2 year contracts. And BoxeR (could be NaDa) once made 750K a year. Once upon a time. Jaedong was making 100K at his prime, but that`s because OZ was litteraly a sweatshop for the guy. But Bisu have been consistently making 200K + since his trade from MBC.
Your numbers are inflated or you're confusing USD with won (and missing some zeroes if you're talking about wons). BoxeR made 780k USD over a course of three years. NaDa 500k USD also over three years on his 2004 contract. When NaDa went to WMF, he got a 750,000,000 won (~500k USD back then) contract from 2007 onward. In 2009, Bisu was on a 150,000,000 won (~100k USD back then) contract. Not bad if it is a one-year contract, but it wasn't afaik; everyone else in KeSPA in 2009 with the exception of NaDa and Moon (who was signed for ~470k USD over three years) made less than Bisu.
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There is some misunderstanding in this thread.
Zero, Roro, hyvaa and Jaehoon are not free agents nor are they up for grabs. They became *eligible* for free agency, a status earned by being a licensed KeSPA progamer for a certain amount of years. Many other players such as Jaedong are eligible for free agency.
They will become free agents if they want to openly negotiate their current comtracts, and won't be up for grabs until the negotiations with the current team fail.
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the trade lock is between ESF and KESPA ... how sick would it be if EG stepped in and signed someone like Zero or Roro... their name would be in everyones mouths(sponsors would be happy), and it would be like a "Whats up now son? Didn't see that one coming did ya" to the bully KESPA.
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It couldn't be considered as transfer if an esf-team grabs one of this players as his contract is at his end, don't see why they can't simply make offers too, not logic
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On September 08 2012 18:53 Surgical_Strike wrote:
the trade lock is between ESF and KESPA ... how sick would it be if EG stepped in and signed someone like Zero or Roro... their name would be in everyones mouths(sponsors would be happy), and it would be like a "Whats up now son? Didn't see that one coming did ya" to the bully KESPA.
EG offered only 8k to Stephano, Kespa players wont even pick up the phone with such low salary.
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On September 08 2012 21:13 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 18:53 Surgical_Strike wrote:
the trade lock is between ESF and KESPA ... how sick would it be if EG stepped in and signed someone like Zero or Roro... their name would be in everyones mouths(sponsors would be happy), and it would be like a "Whats up now son? Didn't see that one coming did ya" to the bully KESPA. EG offered only 8k to Stephano, Kespa players wont even pick up the phone with such low salary.
8k per month would be 108,576,000 Korean Won per year with current exchange rates, that's quite a bit no?
Comparing to this: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142342
Not saying that EG would ever do that, because they wouldn't.
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I dont think it would be good for KeSPA players to sign with foreign teams just yet. Give them a few months into HOTS under their strict Korean training regime to get on top first, then make the move.
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WOW, I never knew this period existed, I can't believe there will be non-lucrative offers for at least RorO and ZerO.
But don't think they will join non-KeSpa team tho.
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On September 08 2012 21:50 Incomplet wrote:
I dont think it would be good for KeSPA players to sign with foreign teams just yet. Give them a few months into HOTS under their strict Korean training regime to get on top first, then make the move.
Why would you choose to join a team that doesn't offer any kind of comparable training possibilities, let alone the insanely good practice partners that they had in their old kespa team? Joinin a non-kespa team doesn't make sense for anyone who's willing to keep his current skill level...
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On September 08 2012 18:53 Surgical_Strike wrote:
the trade lock is between ESF and KESPA ... how sick would it be if EG stepped in and signed someone like Zero or Roro... their name would be in everyones mouths(sponsors would be happy), and it would be like a "Whats up now son? Didn't see that one coming did ya" to the bully KESPA.
The trade lock helps EFS teams more than anybody else. KT or SKT can afford looting an entire EFS team before EG signs one KeSPA player.
Pretty sick, huh?
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Canada11044 Posts
I think some people are overestimating how much the average Kespa player gets paid. Yeah, players like Flash are making a huge salary, but what about players like Free and Classic? Probably not so much.
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On September 08 2012 21:13 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 18:53 Surgical_Strike wrote:
the trade lock is between ESF and KESPA ... how sick would it be if EG stepped in and signed someone like Zero or Roro... their name would be in everyones mouths(sponsors would be happy), and it would be like a "Whats up now son? Didn't see that one coming did ya" to the bully KESPA. EG offered only 8k to Stephano, Kespa players wont even pick up the phone with such low salary.
Stephano is getting paid more by EG then like almost every Kespa player.
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On September 08 2012 18:53 Surgical_Strike wrote:
the trade lock is between ESF and KESPA ... how sick would it be if EG stepped in and signed someone like Zero or Roro... their name would be in everyones mouths(sponsors would be happy), and it would be like a "Whats up now son? Didn't see that one coming did ya" to the bully KESPA.
You should try reading the guy's post just above yours. -_-
On September 09 2012 04:39 GolemMadness wrote:
I think some people are overestimating how much the average Kespa player gets paid. Yeah, players like Flash are making a huge salary, but what about players like Free and Classic? Probably not so much.
Pebbles.
If you look at all the benefits Stephano has other than the base salary he's almost making more than them in one month. -_-
On September 09 2012 04:52 RifleCow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 21:13 sharkie wrote:On September 08 2012 18:53 Surgical_Strike wrote:
the trade lock is between ESF and KESPA ... how sick would it be if EG stepped in and signed someone like Zero or Roro... their name would be in everyones mouths(sponsors would be happy), and it would be like a "Whats up now son? Didn't see that one coming did ya" to the bully KESPA. EG offered only 8k to Stephano, Kespa players wont even pick up the phone with such low salary. Stephano is getting paid more by EG then like almost every Kespa player.
Yup if you aren't a franchise player you make shit.
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So is this "real" free agency where any team can sign them, or what US sports call "restricted free agency" where the current team can match any offers? I'm not really understanding the OP...
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51453 Posts
http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=66491
Jaehoon has failed to negotiate a new contract with Team 8, and apparently is planning to retire if he can't receive a contract of his liking in the next couple of weeks or so (which I'll be honest, will probably not happen).
RorO, hyvaa and ZerO agreed to new contracts with their current teams.
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On September 11 2012 10:47 GTR wrote:http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=66491Jaehoon has failed to negotiate a new contract with Team 8, and apparently is planning to retire if he can't receive a contract of his liking in the next couple of weeks or so (which I'll be honest, will probably not happen). RorO, hyvaa and ZerO agreed to new contracts with their current teams.
Not that big of a loss for t8, if I recall.
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On September 11 2012 10:47 GTR wrote:http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=66491Jaehoon has failed to negotiate a new contract with Team 8, and apparently is planning to retire if he can't receive a contract of his liking in the next couple of weeks or so (which I'll be honest, will probably not happen). RorO, hyvaa and ZerO agreed to new contracts with their current teams.
Honestly saw that coming about Jaehoon, he didn't do enough for Team 8 the last 2 seasons to really warrant getting a new contract. Won't say that he will retire yet, because you never know, a team might want him.
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On September 11 2012 10:51 Kal_rA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 10:47 GTR wrote:http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=66491Jaehoon has failed to negotiate a new contract with Team 8, and apparently is planning to retire if he can't receive a contract of his liking in the next couple of weeks or so (which I'll be honest, will probably not happen). RorO, hyvaa and ZerO agreed to new contracts with their current teams. Not that big of a loss for t8, if I recall.
12-10 last season. 3rd best player. And 3rd best player in the season before that as well. The problem with the negotiations had to do with his salary. Whatever happens, he has no intention to retire, unless forced to do so. Does not want to go into the army just yet.
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On September 09 2012 04:52 RifleCow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 21:13 sharkie wrote:On September 08 2012 18:53 Surgical_Strike wrote:
the trade lock is between ESF and KESPA ... how sick would it be if EG stepped in and signed someone like Zero or Roro... their name would be in everyones mouths(sponsors would be happy), and it would be like a "Whats up now son? Didn't see that one coming did ya" to the bully KESPA. EG offered only 8k to Stephano, Kespa players wont even pick up the phone with such low salary. Stephano is getting paid more by EG then like almost every Kespa player.
I find it hilarious how you can claim that without any data to back it up.
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On September 08 2012 21:13 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 18:53 Surgical_Strike wrote:
the trade lock is between ESF and KESPA ... how sick would it be if EG stepped in and signed someone like Zero or Roro... their name would be in everyones mouths(sponsors would be happy), and it would be like a "Whats up now son? Didn't see that one coming did ya" to the bully KESPA. EG offered only 8k to Stephano, Kespa players wont even pick up the phone with such low salary.
Where is the source for the 8k?
Edit: It is also a difference for the saleries of non-KeSPA players, as they make much more money outside of their contracts. KeSPA players have no streaming income and much less tournaments (less pricemoney).
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On September 11 2012 10:51 Kal_rA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 10:47 GTR wrote:http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=66491Jaehoon has failed to negotiate a new contract with Team 8, and apparently is planning to retire if he can't receive a contract of his liking in the next couple of weeks or so (which I'll be honest, will probably not happen). RorO, hyvaa and ZerO agreed to new contracts with their current teams. Not that big of a loss for t8, if I recall.
i see what u did there lol
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Welp, jaehoon is gonna retire then. Teamjaedong still going strong.
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On September 11 2012 10:47 GTR wrote:http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=66491Jaehoon has failed to negotiate a new contract with Team 8, and apparently is planning to retire if he can't receive a contract of his liking in the next couple of weeks or so (which I'll be honest, will probably not happen). RorO, hyvaa and ZerO agreed to new contracts with their current teams.
Jaehoon have been saying that he has wanted to retire for a long time ago too..
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On September 16 2012 06:02 mjuuy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 10:47 GTR wrote:http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=66491Jaehoon has failed to negotiate a new contract with Team 8, and apparently is planning to retire if he can't receive a contract of his liking in the next couple of weeks or so (which I'll be honest, will probably not happen). RorO, hyvaa and ZerO agreed to new contracts with their current teams. Jaehoon have been saying that he has wanted to retire for a long time ago too..
No, the article does not say that. The article says he does NOT want to retire. He wants to continue being a progamer. If he does not get a transfer to a new team by the 20th, he will renegotiate with Team 8.
Edit:
GTR, pls correct the part in the OP about Jaehoon wanting to retire.
+ Show Spoiler +김재훈은 은퇴가 아닌 프로게이머 생활을 계속하고 싶어 하는 것으로 알려졌다.
It's been said that Kim Jaehoon is not retiring but wants to continue being a progamer.
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51453 Posts
As expected, all players have finalised contracts with their original teams.
Status quo!
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damn da hoon gonna retire? 
wait is he retiring or not
i am conf00zed
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On September 25 2012 11:40 GTR wrote:
As expected, all players have finalised contracts with their original teams.
Status quo!
So I take it Jaehoon has resigned with Team 8?
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Are there more phases or no?
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On September 25 2012 12:01 LimitSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 11:40 GTR wrote:
As expected, all players have finalised contracts with their original teams.
Status quo! So I take it Jaehoon has resigned with Team 8?
Yes
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EPT
