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As emotionally invested as people are on this topic, TL rules still apply. That includes flaming and ad hominem attacks. |
On August 30 2012 14:07 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 14:03 -KarmA wrote:On August 30 2012 13:47 iky43210 wrote:On August 30 2012 13:31 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 13:29 nikoYO wrote:
e speach is not frees speach, its only free if your say the stuff people expect from you, not your true opinion. this has nothing to do with free speech or what ever. its the basic concept of not being an asshole. we dont need proof again that you are an asshole. one statement is enough.
So the other two guys are assholes because they are saying a girl is ugly as fuck. LOL.
Why are they assholes, should they have said "i think her facial structure is not too pleasing for me."
:D
It baffles me how some people can defend the things that was said in the chatlog & in this very thread. But I guess jerks do come in groups. the mentality of "oh ops I just got found out about saying incredibly demeanor thing behind someones back, I guess that's a queue for me to talk about it in the public" is completely illogical. you are representing some companies for crying out loud. What goes on in those roots players thinking it would be ok to come publicly reminiscent about how awesome it was to criticize and demeanor someone's looks. You're not a nameless person behind computers, but players that represent teams and other companies. No sponsors will tolerate these kind of attacks, especially after you showing no remorse but instead almost proudly reiterate the verbal abuses once more in public. grow up. Its this kind of shit here thats going to hold the whole idea of eSports back. Theres too much damn drama over EVERYTHING. So let me get this straight, Destiny says something or does something BEHIND closed doors, someone leaks it and all of a sudden everyones butthurt over it. You know what is completely illogical? The fact more people spend their time discussing "OMG so and so said/did this :" Than actually playing the game and enjoying the content (aside from the drama). You people hold all these players to retardedly high standards to the point where anyone who is ever in any kind of public spotlight had best watch what they say otherwise "were gonna complain to the sponsors cause theyre big meanyfaces" >.> retardedly high standard? How is asking pros to be respectful and not vandalizing someone's looks a retardedly high standard? I didn't care for it when it was just private chat, but it crossed the line when said pros came into this thread proudly once more attacking her look in public. It should not be too far fetch to ask for some decencies in players.
So they are attacking her looks in public when they say that this was their own private opinion in a private chat. Glad that nobody else EVER has said anything bad about another person.I m glad that there are so many perfectly behaving people out there.
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On August 30 2012 14:10 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 14:05 FortMonty wrote:On August 30 2012 13:58 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 30 2012 13:47 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 13:39 BronzeKnee wrote:
Sigh. Misogyny includes sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women.
Destiny was asking if he should have sex with a woman with an ugly face and good body. That is the sexual objectification of women.
Do I really need to spell it all out for you like that? Do I need to explain exactly how that comment makes her (and women in general) out to be sexual objects?
Sigh. I cant belive the bullshit people write. If i say "wow she has great boobs but ugly" that makes me woman hater. Yeah. You guys just haven't read the chat log. The conversation was implying then women are only good for sex, objectifying them sexually. Read the chat log. I honestly don't think you guys are educated and mature enough to understand this. Sure you can say a woman has great boobs and is ugly, heck you can say she has great boobs and is pretty, and what are you doing? You are commenting on her worth as a sexual object. Women are not sexual objects. The sexual objectification is a lie that has been sold to society, and it is a recent development. Cavemen didn't wander around and discuss whether a woman was hot or not. And it is wrong. But I am speaking with uneducated teenagers who have bought the lie, so it won't be understood. Society markets women's as object. Don't hate the Pantene girl because she is beautiful, but we do hate her, because he we are objectifying her. Thankfully, the sponsors understand. You're way too politically correct, sure people understand what you're saying, but the fact is that some people don't agree. It doesn't makeus uneducated, it means that we are educated enough to understand that what they did was "mean" but not illegal. Though I guess you're too stuck up and self righteous to accept that as an answer, am I right? (See, I can make baseless assumptions and characterizations about the people who disagree with me as well) Again (second time I've said this) I never said anything about right, wrong, good or evil. All that I said was those comments are misogynistic. And we know that sponsors don't like that. If you aren't educated, you might not be able to see that they are misogynistic comment, or you might not understand it. There is nothing wrong with that. And the fact is people would agree with me they are misogynistic if they understand what it means because those comments are misogynistic. This isn't open to interpretation, it is simply looking at the definition and understanding the English language. The same as stating the sky is blue. Look at the sky. If you aren't educated in know what the sky is, you won't understand. However they might disagree with what happened and believe we should sponsor people that are misogynistic. If that is the case the person is misogynistic themselves, even if they think they are not. Again, going back to the definition, if you support companies who sponsor people who say misogynistic things, then you don't respect women, because you wouldn't support companies who sponsor misogynistic people if you did. I've won many scored debates in my days, the the key to stick to the definitions and outmaneuver people with semantics. You can't lose.
I'm making a point, not trying to win a debate, misogynistic? Yes, I agree with you that the definiton of the word matches the implication of the event, but the question of the debate has always been, was this right, wrong, good, bad, so on and so forth. Not only that, but I DO disagree with you, supporting someone does not instantly make you a supporter of everything they stand for, I support Freedom of Speech, but I do not support the use of free Speech to publically degrade others, of course you can argue that because I support Destiny, I thereby support Destiny publically degrading the girl to his 2 friends and therefore am a supporter directly or indirectly of degrading other with Free Speech, which really just amounts to this being a big fucking play of words and silly use of definitions and starmans to twist and turn the arguement in your favor. The fact is, people need common sense as well as book smarts, the English language does not have enough words or definitions to account for EVERY single possible scenario or positio on every possible topic. What you're doing is essentially mimicing William Lane Craig as an artful avoider of commonsense and questions and playing silly word games.
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Close thread you got TT1 trying to answer everyone's question and then other people try to call him out on some other shit.
Fayth go away, because you are just coming out like a fucking stuck up asshole
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On August 30 2012 14:17 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 14:07 iky43210 wrote:On August 30 2012 14:03 -KarmA wrote:On August 30 2012 13:47 iky43210 wrote:On August 30 2012 13:31 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 13:29 nikoYO wrote:
e speach is not frees speach, its only free if your say the stuff people expect from you, not your true opinion. this has nothing to do with free speech or what ever. its the basic concept of not being an asshole. we dont need proof again that you are an asshole. one statement is enough.
So the other two guys are assholes because they are saying a girl is ugly as fuck. LOL.
Why are they assholes, should they have said "i think her facial structure is not too pleasing for me."
:D
It baffles me how some people can defend the things that was said in the chatlog & in this very thread. But I guess jerks do come in groups. the mentality of "oh ops I just got found out about saying incredibly demeanor thing behind someones back, I guess that's a queue for me to talk about it in the public" is completely illogical. you are representing some companies for crying out loud. What goes on in those roots players thinking it would be ok to come publicly reminiscent about how awesome it was to criticize and demeanor someone's looks. You're not a nameless person behind computers, but players that represent teams and other companies. No sponsors will tolerate these kind of attacks, especially after you showing no remorse but instead almost proudly reiterate the verbal abuses once more in public. grow up. Its this kind of shit here thats going to hold the whole idea of eSports back. Theres too much damn drama over EVERYTHING. So let me get this straight, Destiny says something or does something BEHIND closed doors, someone leaks it and all of a sudden everyones butthurt over it. You know what is completely illogical? The fact more people spend their time discussing "OMG so and so said/did this :" Than actually playing the game and enjoying the content (aside from the drama). You people hold all these players to retardedly high standards to the point where anyone who is ever in any kind of public spotlight had best watch what they say otherwise "were gonna complain to the sponsors cause theyre big meanyfaces" >.> retardedly high standard? How is asking pros to be respectful and not vandalizing someone's looks a retardedly high standard? I didn't care for it when it was just private chat, but it crossed the line when said pros came into this thread proudly once more attacking her look in public. It should not be too far fetch to ask for some decencies in players. So they are attacking her looks in public when they say that this was their own private opinion in a private chat. Glad that nobody else EVER has said anything bad about another person.I m glad that there are so many perfectly behaving people out there.
I continue to be baffled as to how you're leaving the nudes out of this conversation on both sides. I'm willing to put myself out there and say that bluetea probably wouldn't have gone postal over some typical male low-key objectification if it hadn't been backed up by pics.
also, you guys can grandstand about privacy but maybe you should be doing it in front of destiny while holding signs that read "change your passwords once in a while, or just don't give them out!"
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On August 30 2012 14:14 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 14:03 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 30 2012 14:01 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 13:58 BronzeKnee wrote:
You guys just haven't read the chat log. The conversation was implying then women are only good for sex, objectifying them sexually. Read the chat log.
I honestly don't think you guys are educated and mature enough to understand this. Sure you can say a woman has great boobs and is ugly, heck you can say she has great boobs and is pretty, and what are you doing? You are commenting on her worth as a sexual object. Women are not sexual objects. The sexual objectification is a lie that has been sold to society, and it is a recent development. Cavemen didn't wander around and discuss whether a woman was hot or not.
And it is wrong. But I am speaking with uneducated teenagers, so it won't be understood.
Thankfully, the sponsors understand. Oh right so if i m masturbating i m a very very bad uneducated teenager and i m purely evil because i see woman only as sexual objects. Did you ever watch porn? So here you go you are just seeing women as sexual objects. I never said anything about right, wrong, good or evil. All that I said was those comments are misogynistic. And we know that sponsors don't like that. For all you know, I could be misogynistic myself. But this isn't about me or you. This is about calling misogynistic comments misogynistic. Apples are apples my friend, don't tell me they are Oranges, and don't hate me for like apples if I do. On August 30 2012 14:03 -KarmA wrote:On August 30 2012 13:47 iky43210 wrote:On August 30 2012 13:31 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 13:29 nikoYO wrote:
e speach is not frees speach, its only free if your say the stuff people expect from you, not your true opinion. this has nothing to do with free speech or what ever. its the basic concept of not being an asshole. we dont need proof again that you are an asshole. one statement is enough.
So the other two guys are assholes because they are saying a girl is ugly as fuck. LOL.
Why are they assholes, should they have said "i think her facial structure is not too pleasing for me."
:D
It baffles me how some people can defend the things that was said in the chatlog & in this very thread. But I guess jerks do come in groups. the mentality of "oh ops I just got found out about saying incredibly demeanor thing behind someones back, I guess that's a queue for me to talk about it in the public" is completely illogical. you are representing some companies for crying out loud. What goes on in those roots players thinking it would be ok to come publicly reminiscent about how awesome it was to criticize and demeanor someone's looks. You're not a nameless person behind computers, but players that represent teams and other companies. No sponsors will tolerate these kind of attacks, especially after you showing no remorse but instead almost proudly reiterate the verbal abuses once more in public. grow up. Its this kind of shit here thats going to hold the whole idea of eSports back. Theres too much damn drama over EVERYTHING. So let me get this straight, Destiny says something or does something BEHIND closed doors, someone leaks it and all of a sudden everyones butthurt over it. You know what is completely illogical? The fact more people spend their time discussing "OMG so and so said/did this :" Than actually playing the game and enjoying the content (aside from the drama). You people hold all these players to retardedly high standards to the point where anyone who is ever in any kind of public spotlight had best watch what they say otherwise "were gonna complain to the sponsors cause theyre big meanyfaces" >.> So people shouldn't act decently toward other humans beings and we should expect companies to actively sponsor people who don't act decently toward other humans beings? I don't think you understand business. You dont get my point : Every heterosexual man looks at women as sexual objects. Thats not misogynistic. Its only misogynistic if he only thinks about women as sexual objects. Thats a big difference. And having a talk about a girls looks with your friends is not misogynistic. Its misogynistic if you say "women are only good for sex and nothing else".
You need to understand the difference between: "He is honest." and "What he said was true."
A person can say something true, but it doesn't always make them honest in general, only honest regarding that comment. In fact, no one always tells the truth.
Now if a man makes a comment about a woman as sexual object, it is a misogynistic comment, regardless of whether or not he only thinks about women as sexual objects. Alternatively, someone who has always made misogynistic comments when he talks about women can for the first time make a comment that isn't misogynistic comment, and it isn't a misogynistic comment. Thus no one is always misogynistic (as no one always tells the truth), people make misogynistic comments.
In other the comment stands independent of the person, and thus is isn't so clear cut as this guy is misogynistic because he thinks of thinks about women as sexual objects, and this guys isn't because he doesn't.
So when you and your friends are getting together and you solely talk about looks with girls and make comments about whether or not you'd get in a relationship with them based solely on looks it is misogynistic. Yet you can later have a discussions about getting together with girls based on personality and it isn't misogynistic (though it could be depending on how you refer to the girls).
And so there is no difference.
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One good thing that came out of this is that this thread has become a cesspool of arguementive discussion lol, at the very least it gives people something to talk about until the next big disaster.
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Northern Ireland23745 Posts
On August 30 2012 14:25 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 14:14 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 14:03 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 30 2012 14:01 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 13:58 BronzeKnee wrote:
You guys just haven't read the chat log. The conversation was implying then women are only good for sex, objectifying them sexually. Read the chat log.
I honestly don't think you guys are educated and mature enough to understand this. Sure you can say a woman has great boobs and is ugly, heck you can say she has great boobs and is pretty, and what are you doing? You are commenting on her worth as a sexual object. Women are not sexual objects. The sexual objectification is a lie that has been sold to society, and it is a recent development. Cavemen didn't wander around and discuss whether a woman was hot or not.
And it is wrong. But I am speaking with uneducated teenagers, so it won't be understood.
Thankfully, the sponsors understand. Oh right so if i m masturbating i m a very very bad uneducated teenager and i m purely evil because i see woman only as sexual objects. Did you ever watch porn? So here you go you are just seeing women as sexual objects. I never said anything about right, wrong, good or evil. All that I said was those comments are misogynistic. And we know that sponsors don't like that. For all you know, I could be misogynistic myself. But this isn't about me or you. This is about calling misogynistic comments misogynistic. Apples are apples my friend, don't tell me they are Oranges, and don't hate me for like apples if I do. On August 30 2012 14:03 -KarmA wrote:On August 30 2012 13:47 iky43210 wrote:On August 30 2012 13:31 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 13:29 nikoYO wrote:
e speach is not frees speach, its only free if your say the stuff people expect from you, not your true opinion. this has nothing to do with free speech or what ever. its the basic concept of not being an asshole. we dont need proof again that you are an asshole. one statement is enough.
So the other two guys are assholes because they are saying a girl is ugly as fuck. LOL.
Why are they assholes, should they have said "i think her facial structure is not too pleasing for me."
:D
It baffles me how some people can defend the things that was said in the chatlog & in this very thread. But I guess jerks do come in groups. the mentality of "oh ops I just got found out about saying incredibly demeanor thing behind someones back, I guess that's a queue for me to talk about it in the public" is completely illogical. you are representing some companies for crying out loud. What goes on in those roots players thinking it would be ok to come publicly reminiscent about how awesome it was to criticize and demeanor someone's looks. You're not a nameless person behind computers, but players that represent teams and other companies. No sponsors will tolerate these kind of attacks, especially after you showing no remorse but instead almost proudly reiterate the verbal abuses once more in public. grow up. Its this kind of shit here thats going to hold the whole idea of eSports back. Theres too much damn drama over EVERYTHING. So let me get this straight, Destiny says something or does something BEHIND closed doors, someone leaks it and all of a sudden everyones butthurt over it. You know what is completely illogical? The fact more people spend their time discussing "OMG so and so said/did this :" Than actually playing the game and enjoying the content (aside from the drama). You people hold all these players to retardedly high standards to the point where anyone who is ever in any kind of public spotlight had best watch what they say otherwise "were gonna complain to the sponsors cause theyre big meanyfaces" >.> So people shouldn't act decently toward other humans beings and we should expect companies to actively sponsor people who don't act decently toward other humans beings? I don't think you understand business. You dont get my point : Every heterosexual man looks at women as sexual objects. Thats not misogynistic. Its only misogynistic if he only thinks about women as sexual objects. Thats a big difference. And having a talk about a girls looks with your friends is not misogynistic. Its misogynistic if you say "women are only good for sex and nothing else". You need to understand the difference between: "He is honest." and "What he said was true." A person can say something true, but it doesn't always make them honest in general, only honest regarding that comment. In fact, no one always tells the truth. Now if a man makes a comment about a woman as sexual object, it is a misogynistic comment, regardless of whether or not he only thinks about women as sexual objects. Alternatively, someone who has always made misogynistic comments when he talks about women can for the first time make a comment that isn't misogynistic comment, and it isn't a misogynistic comment. Thus no one is always misogynistic (as no one always tells the truth), people make misogynistic comments. In other the comment stands independent of the person, and thus is isn't so clear cut as this guy is misogynistic because he thinks of thinks about women as sexual objects, and this guys isn't because he doesn't. So when you and your friends are getting together and you solely talk about looks with girls and make comments about whether or not you'd get in a relationship with them based solely on looks it is misogynistic. Yet you can later have a discussions about getting together with girls based on personality and it isn't misogynistic (though it could be depending on how you refer to the girls). And so there is no difference.
You're a semantic little fellow aren't you?
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On August 30 2012 14:10 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 14:05 FortMonty wrote:On August 30 2012 13:58 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 30 2012 13:47 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 13:39 BronzeKnee wrote:
Sigh. Misogyny includes sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women.
Destiny was asking if he should have sex with a woman with an ugly face and good body. That is the sexual objectification of women.
Do I really need to spell it all out for you like that? Do I need to explain exactly how that comment makes her (and women in general) out to be sexual objects?
Sigh. I cant belive the bullshit people write. If i say "wow she has great boobs but ugly" that makes me woman hater. Yeah. You guys just haven't read the chat log. The conversation was implying then women are only good for sex, objectifying them sexually. Read the chat log. I honestly don't think you guys are educated and mature enough to understand this. Sure you can say a woman has great boobs and is ugly, heck you can say she has great boobs and is pretty, and what are you doing? You are commenting on her worth as a sexual object. Women are not sexual objects. The sexual objectification is a lie that has been sold to society, and it is a recent development. Cavemen didn't wander around and discuss whether a woman was hot or not. And it is wrong. But I am speaking with uneducated teenagers who have bought the lie, so it won't be understood. Society markets women's as object. Don't hate the Pantene girl because she is beautiful, but we do hate her, because he we are objectifying her. Thankfully, the sponsors understand. You're way too politically correct, sure people understand what you're saying, but the fact is that some people don't agree. It doesn't makeus uneducated, it means that we are educated enough to understand that what they did was "mean" but not illegal. Though I guess you're too stuck up and self righteous to accept that as an answer, am I right? (See, I can make baseless assumptions and characterizations about the people who disagree with me as well) Again (second time I've said this) I never said anything about right, wrong, good or evil. All that I said was those comments are misogynistic. And we know that sponsors don't like that. If you aren't educated, you might not be able to see that they are misogynistic comment, or you might not understand it. There is nothing wrong with that. And the fact is people would agree with me they are misogynistic if they understand what it means because those comments are misogynistic. This isn't open to interpretation, it is simply looking at the definition and understanding the English language. The same as stating the sky is blue. Look at the sky. If you aren't educated in know what the sky is, you won't understand. However they might disagree with what happened and believe we should sponsor people that are misogynistic. If that is the case the person is misogynistic themselves, even if they think they are not. Again, going back to the definition, if you support companies who sponsor people who say misogynistic things, then you don't respect women, because you wouldn't support companies who sponsor people who say misogynistic thing if you did respect women. They are incompatible beliefs, and they cannot exist simultaneously in a person (akin to someone say they believe in God, but are an atheist). Make sense? I've won many scored debates in my days, the the key to stick to the definitions and outmaneuver people with semantics. You can't lose.
I'm sorry, I read Wikipedia and it doesn't match what you said.
Misogyny (play /mɪˈsɒdʒɪni/) is the hatred or dislike of women or girls. According to feminist theory, misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women.
[...]
According to sociologist Allan G. Johnson, "misogyny is a cultural attitude of hatred for females because they are female."
Are you uneducated?
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On August 30 2012 14:21 TheExile19 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 14:17 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 14:07 iky43210 wrote:On August 30 2012 14:03 -KarmA wrote:On August 30 2012 13:47 iky43210 wrote:On August 30 2012 13:31 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 13:29 nikoYO wrote:
e speach is not frees speach, its only free if your say the stuff people expect from you, not your true opinion. this has nothing to do with free speech or what ever. its the basic concept of not being an asshole. we dont need proof again that you are an asshole. one statement is enough.
So the other two guys are assholes because they are saying a girl is ugly as fuck. LOL.
Why are they assholes, should they have said "i think her facial structure is not too pleasing for me."
:D
It baffles me how some people can defend the things that was said in the chatlog & in this very thread. But I guess jerks do come in groups. the mentality of "oh ops I just got found out about saying incredibly demeanor thing behind someones back, I guess that's a queue for me to talk about it in the public" is completely illogical. you are representing some companies for crying out loud. What goes on in those roots players thinking it would be ok to come publicly reminiscent about how awesome it was to criticize and demeanor someone's looks. You're not a nameless person behind computers, but players that represent teams and other companies. No sponsors will tolerate these kind of attacks, especially after you showing no remorse but instead almost proudly reiterate the verbal abuses once more in public. grow up. Its this kind of shit here thats going to hold the whole idea of eSports back. Theres too much damn drama over EVERYTHING. So let me get this straight, Destiny says something or does something BEHIND closed doors, someone leaks it and all of a sudden everyones butthurt over it. You know what is completely illogical? The fact more people spend their time discussing "OMG so and so said/did this :" Than actually playing the game and enjoying the content (aside from the drama). You people hold all these players to retardedly high standards to the point where anyone who is ever in any kind of public spotlight had best watch what they say otherwise "were gonna complain to the sponsors cause theyre big meanyfaces" >.> retardedly high standard? How is asking pros to be respectful and not vandalizing someone's looks a retardedly high standard? I didn't care for it when it was just private chat, but it crossed the line when said pros came into this thread proudly once more attacking her look in public. It should not be too far fetch to ask for some decencies in players. So they are attacking her looks in public when they say that this was their own private opinion in a private chat. Glad that nobody else EVER has said anything bad about another person.I m glad that there are so many perfectly behaving people out there. I continue to be baffled as to how you're leaving the nudes out of this conversation on both sides. I'm willing to put myself out there and say that bluetea probably wouldn't have gone postal over some typical male low-key objectification if it hadn't been backed up by pics. also, you guys can grandstand about privacy but maybe you should be doing it in front of destiny while holding signs that read "change your passwords once in a while, or just don't give them out!"
I stated multiple times that i was absolutly not ok to give the nude pics to his friends neither it was ok to twitter his dick to the public.
First this are two different topics:
1. Destiny getting kicked out. In my opinion its a disgrace for the community to msg the sponsors and its also a shameful act of people msging the sponsors who are not involved in the community to get their own kind of vengence.
2. People are mad at tt1 and rootfaye for making this kind of statements. Its highly hypocritical and just totally unacceptable that people are saying they are assholes when they arent any better. There was nothing wrong with that conversation and just because it got public it shouldnt have any impact at all. They didnt harm anybody nor did they do anything illegal. They just stated their opinions.
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Glad to see this thread has become debate practice lol. Now let me get out quickly before my IQ gets lowered any further.
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I hope after this calms down Root takes destiny back, He is one of the founders and face of Root he makes mistakes but is still a great personality and player.
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Well,u don't see this kind of ''drama'' every day...kids this days.
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On August 30 2012 14:25 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 14:14 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 14:03 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 30 2012 14:01 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 13:58 BronzeKnee wrote:
You guys just haven't read the chat log. The conversation was implying then women are only good for sex, objectifying them sexually. Read the chat log.
I honestly don't think you guys are educated and mature enough to understand this. Sure you can say a woman has great boobs and is ugly, heck you can say she has great boobs and is pretty, and what are you doing? You are commenting on her worth as a sexual object. Women are not sexual objects. The sexual objectification is a lie that has been sold to society, and it is a recent development. Cavemen didn't wander around and discuss whether a woman was hot or not.
And it is wrong. But I am speaking with uneducated teenagers, so it won't be understood.
Thankfully, the sponsors understand. Oh right so if i m masturbating i m a very very bad uneducated teenager and i m purely evil because i see woman only as sexual objects. Did you ever watch porn? So here you go you are just seeing women as sexual objects. I never said anything about right, wrong, good or evil. All that I said was those comments are misogynistic. And we know that sponsors don't like that. For all you know, I could be misogynistic myself. But this isn't about me or you. This is about calling misogynistic comments misogynistic. Apples are apples my friend, don't tell me they are Oranges, and don't hate me for like apples if I do. On August 30 2012 14:03 -KarmA wrote:On August 30 2012 13:47 iky43210 wrote:On August 30 2012 13:31 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 13:29 nikoYO wrote:
e speach is not frees speach, its only free if your say the stuff people expect from you, not your true opinion. this has nothing to do with free speech or what ever. its the basic concept of not being an asshole. we dont need proof again that you are an asshole. one statement is enough.
So the other two guys are assholes because they are saying a girl is ugly as fuck. LOL.
Why are they assholes, should they have said "i think her facial structure is not too pleasing for me."
:D
It baffles me how some people can defend the things that was said in the chatlog & in this very thread. But I guess jerks do come in groups. the mentality of "oh ops I just got found out about saying incredibly demeanor thing behind someones back, I guess that's a queue for me to talk about it in the public" is completely illogical. you are representing some companies for crying out loud. What goes on in those roots players thinking it would be ok to come publicly reminiscent about how awesome it was to criticize and demeanor someone's looks. You're not a nameless person behind computers, but players that represent teams and other companies. No sponsors will tolerate these kind of attacks, especially after you showing no remorse but instead almost proudly reiterate the verbal abuses once more in public. grow up. Its this kind of shit here thats going to hold the whole idea of eSports back. Theres too much damn drama over EVERYTHING. So let me get this straight, Destiny says something or does something BEHIND closed doors, someone leaks it and all of a sudden everyones butthurt over it. You know what is completely illogical? The fact more people spend their time discussing "OMG so and so said/did this :" Than actually playing the game and enjoying the content (aside from the drama). You people hold all these players to retardedly high standards to the point where anyone who is ever in any kind of public spotlight had best watch what they say otherwise "were gonna complain to the sponsors cause theyre big meanyfaces" >.> So people shouldn't act decently toward other humans beings and we should expect companies to actively sponsor people who don't act decently toward other humans beings? I don't think you understand business. You dont get my point : Every heterosexual man looks at women as sexual objects. Thats not misogynistic. Its only misogynistic if he only thinks about women as sexual objects. Thats a big difference. And having a talk about a girls looks with your friends is not misogynistic. Its misogynistic if you say "women are only good for sex and nothing else". Now if a man makes a comment about a woman as sexual object, it is a misogynistic comment, regardless of whether or not he only thinks about women as sexual objects. Alternatively, someone who has always made misogynistic comments when he talks about women can for the first time make a comment that isn't misogynistic comment, and it isn't a misogynistic comment. Thus no one is always misogynistic (as no one always tells the truth), people make misogynistic comments.
What the hell are you talking about? So every man by your defintion is misogynistic.
If i talk about the looks of a girl i m NOT misogynistic. Thats called sexuality. Thats a big difference and you dont seem to get it.
If i watch porn i m not misogynistic. If i state or think girls/women are only good for porn then i m misogynistic.
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As a rapidly flourishing industry, Starcraft 2 needs it's own TMZ. We've got the drama, we just need the publication - perhaps TLZ?
On a serious note, what we can learn from this is that nude photographs (dick pixxx included) are always a gamble. A fun, sexy gamble. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
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On August 30 2012 14:20 FortMonty wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 14:10 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 30 2012 14:05 FortMonty wrote:On August 30 2012 13:58 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 30 2012 13:47 Sokrates wrote:On August 30 2012 13:39 BronzeKnee wrote:
Sigh. Misogyny includes sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women.
Destiny was asking if he should have sex with a woman with an ugly face and good body. That is the sexual objectification of women.
Do I really need to spell it all out for you like that? Do I need to explain exactly how that comment makes her (and women in general) out to be sexual objects?
Sigh. I cant belive the bullshit people write. If i say "wow she has great boobs but ugly" that makes me woman hater. Yeah. You guys just haven't read the chat log. The conversation was implying then women are only good for sex, objectifying them sexually. Read the chat log. I honestly don't think you guys are educated and mature enough to understand this. Sure you can say a woman has great boobs and is ugly, heck you can say she has great boobs and is pretty, and what are you doing? You are commenting on her worth as a sexual object. Women are not sexual objects. The sexual objectification is a lie that has been sold to society, and it is a recent development. Cavemen didn't wander around and discuss whether a woman was hot or not. And it is wrong. But I am speaking with uneducated teenagers who have bought the lie, so it won't be understood. Society markets women's as object. Don't hate the Pantene girl because she is beautiful, but we do hate her, because he we are objectifying her. Thankfully, the sponsors understand. You're way too politically correct, sure people understand what you're saying, but the fact is that some people don't agree. It doesn't makeus uneducated, it means that we are educated enough to understand that what they did was "mean" but not illegal. Though I guess you're too stuck up and self righteous to accept that as an answer, am I right? (See, I can make baseless assumptions and characterizations about the people who disagree with me as well) Again (second time I've said this) I never said anything about right, wrong, good or evil. All that I said was those comments are misogynistic. And we know that sponsors don't like that. If you aren't educated, you might not be able to see that they are misogynistic comment, or you might not understand it. There is nothing wrong with that. And the fact is people would agree with me they are misogynistic if they understand what it means because those comments are misogynistic. This isn't open to interpretation, it is simply looking at the definition and understanding the English language. The same as stating the sky is blue. Look at the sky. If you aren't educated in know what the sky is, you won't understand. However they might disagree with what happened and believe we should sponsor people that are misogynistic. If that is the case the person is misogynistic themselves, even if they think they are not. Again, going back to the definition, if you support companies who sponsor people who say misogynistic things, then you don't respect women, because you wouldn't support companies who sponsor misogynistic people if you did. I've won many scored debates in my days, the the key to stick to the definitions and outmaneuver people with semantics. You can't lose. I'm making a point, not trying to win a debate, misogynistic? Yes, I agree with you that the definiton of the word matches the implication of the event, but the question of the debate has always been, was this right, wrong, good, bad, so on and so forth. Not only that, but I DO disagree with you, supporting someone does not instantly make you a supporter of everything they stand for, I support Freedom of Speech, but I do not support the use of free Speech to publically degrade others, of course you can argue that because I support Destiny, I thereby support Destiny publically degrading the girl to his 2 friends and therefore am a supporter directly or indirectly of degrading other with Free Speech, which really just amounts to this being a big fucking play of words and silly use of definitions and starmans to twist and turn the arguement in your favor. The fact is, people need common sense as well as book smarts, the English language does not have enough words or definitions to account for EVERY single possible scenario or positio on every possible topic. What you're doing is essentially mimicing William Lane Craig as an artful avoider of commonsense and questions and playing silly word games.
Good response man, well played. I actually don't know who William Lane Craig is though.
This isn't a silly word game though. People are defined by their actions. Is it right? Is it wrong? I am not sure. Clearly you think it isn't right. that people shouldn't always be defined by their actions. And I just wrote a long post about how people literally can't be defined by their actions semantically, because if a honest person lies once, they are not honest are they? But that isn't the point here. The point is how do the sponsors define people.
Think about this. Every once and awhile some famous figure somewhere in the world says something like "You know, Hitler did some great things, he did a lot of terrible things, but he really did some great things..." I am sure you've heard it, we all have. And then said famous figure gets flamed by the media and every anti-defamation league in the world, ect, and they apologize, and fade away in obscurity.
I'm sure you've heard that story. Should that person forever be defined by those comments? Should he lose sponsorship, fame, endorsements, ect because of that?
In the end whatever you or I think really doesn't matter. It what the sponsors and media think. And they play it safe.
And so Destiny loses. He has received second chances in the past because he is a big name (as Michael Vick and Tiger Woods) and he might get another chance, because he is popular. But for now, those comments define him, and attaching your name to him now is the same as sponsor attaching their name to Tiger Woods after it came out he was having an affair. It makes you look like an awful person.
So the sponsors have to shed him. It is the way the world works. And he coming out guns blazing trying to sue, and TT1 and Fayth making excuses just makes them more toxic.
People need to learn to censor themselves. Have you ever seen Day[9]'s cast of Chill vs Combatex? If he ever casted like today on the Daily, he wouldn't be at MLG. He has censored himself. And when you finally figure out how to do it, you actually say exactly the same things, you just say it without all the profanity.
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if he really talked shit about her and showed her pictures even to his friends he's a fucking idiot and has no place in sc2 anymore as far as i'm concerned
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On August 30 2012 14:30 ROOTT1 wrote:
jesus fucking christ
I gotta agree with you on this one. This discussion has become absurd...
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EPT
