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If this thread can't remain civil then we'll have to close it. Thread will be moderated harshly from pg.3 onwards. |
As a Zerg who finds ZvT to be the easiest matchup ever. I think Raven Energy costs need a reduction across the board. I'd say reduce Auto-turret to 25 Energy from 50 Energy whilst halving the duration, reduce the cost of Point Defense Drone to 50 and make Hunter Seeker Missile cost 75 Energy instead of 125 Energy. HSM already does poor splash damage in comparison to abilities like Fungal Growth and Psionic Storm.
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On August 19 2012 11:19 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 11:16 Forikorder wrote:On August 19 2012 11:14 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:12 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
Another wall of text from Avilo, are you losing 100% of your TvZs or something? Terrans have been doing quite well recently in all stages of the matchup. a) the wall of text is discussing how a raven speed buff does nothing for the match-up, and speed does nothing to address any core issues. b) thread is not about me personally c) I would suggest you look at tournament results, winrates, and general trends because they disagree with your assessment. the game doesnt need a giant change doing small things like making ravens faster and creep slower is exactly what blizz needs to do the game is so balanced right now that a careless nerf or buff just makes it more imbalanced they need small nerfs taht are carefully thought out and tested and watched religiously people said the same thing about warp prisoms now warp prism harass is hugely hard to deal with as Zerg You mean no careless unnecessary giant changes like giving the queen an extra two range in an already close to 50-50 balanced match-up...right?  As for blizzard going slow with changes, that is great, but changing raven speed does nothing to address any of the balance issues for the TvZ match-up that occurred after the queen buff patch. The creep spread nerf I'm sure most players agree blizzard needs to do.
I think you are forgeting the part where the terran was pretty much untoucheble while having the chanse to kill the zerg early game.
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On August 31 2012 23:01 Pusekatten wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 11:19 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:16 Forikorder wrote:On August 19 2012 11:14 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:12 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
Another wall of text from Avilo, are you losing 100% of your TvZs or something? Terrans have been doing quite well recently in all stages of the matchup. a) the wall of text is discussing how a raven speed buff does nothing for the match-up, and speed does nothing to address any core issues. b) thread is not about me personally c) I would suggest you look at tournament results, winrates, and general trends because they disagree with your assessment. the game doesnt need a giant change doing small things like making ravens faster and creep slower is exactly what blizz needs to do the game is so balanced right now that a careless nerf or buff just makes it more imbalanced they need small nerfs taht are carefully thought out and tested and watched religiously people said the same thing about warp prisoms now warp prism harass is hugely hard to deal with as Zerg You mean no careless unnecessary giant changes like giving the queen an extra two range in an already close to 50-50 balanced match-up...right? As for blizzard going slow with changes, that is great, but changing raven speed does nothing to address any of the balance issues for the TvZ match-up that occurred after the queen buff patch. The creep spread nerf I'm sure most players agree blizzard needs to do. I think you are forgeting the part where the terran was pretty much untoucheble while having the chanse to kill the zerg early game.
And what exactly is wrong with terran having a chance at killing zerg early on through aggression like 11/11 rax, they were no where near untouchable and you make it sound like it's so wrong for the zerg being forced to scout cheese in order to prepare for it and hold it instead of blindly making 4+ queens and pulling a couple of drones in order to hold cheeses like 11/11 or 12/14 rax.
On August 31 2012 22:59 Clbull wrote:
As a Zerg who finds ZvT to be the easiest matchup ever. I think Raven Energy costs need a reduction across the board. I'd say reduce Auto-turret to 25 Energy from 50 Energy whilst halving the duration, reduce the cost of Point Defense Drone to 50 and make Hunter Seeker Missile cost 75 Energy instead of 125 Energy. HSM already does poor splash damage in comparison to abilities like Fungal Growth and Psionic Storm.
To be honest I'm happy with the amount of damage and the radius HSM does, it just desperately needs the energy cost for the ability to be decreased so that ravens aren't useless while you wait around for energy to build up so you can actually use HSM, and so that if possible you could actually cast HSM twice with a single raven if it has accumulated enough energy instead of it only being able to cast once.
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On August 31 2012 23:21 Jaegeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 23:01 Pusekatten wrote:On August 19 2012 11:19 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:16 Forikorder wrote:On August 19 2012 11:14 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:12 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
Another wall of text from Avilo, are you losing 100% of your TvZs or something? Terrans have been doing quite well recently in all stages of the matchup. a) the wall of text is discussing how a raven speed buff does nothing for the match-up, and speed does nothing to address any core issues. b) thread is not about me personally c) I would suggest you look at tournament results, winrates, and general trends because they disagree with your assessment. the game doesnt need a giant change doing small things like making ravens faster and creep slower is exactly what blizz needs to do the game is so balanced right now that a careless nerf or buff just makes it more imbalanced they need small nerfs taht are carefully thought out and tested and watched religiously people said the same thing about warp prisoms now warp prism harass is hugely hard to deal with as Zerg You mean no careless unnecessary giant changes like giving the queen an extra two range in an already close to 50-50 balanced match-up...right? As for blizzard going slow with changes, that is great, but changing raven speed does nothing to address any of the balance issues for the TvZ match-up that occurred after the queen buff patch. The creep spread nerf I'm sure most players agree blizzard needs to do. I think you are forgeting the part where the terran was pretty much untoucheble while having the chanse to kill the zerg early game. And what exactly is wrong with terran having a chance at killing zerg early on through aggression like 11/11 rax, they were no where near untouchable and you make it sound like it's so wrong for the zerg being forced to scout cheese in order to prepare for it and hold it instead of blindly making 4+ queens and pulling a couple of drones in order to hold cheeses like 11/11 or 12/14 rax. Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 22:59 Clbull wrote:
As a Zerg who finds ZvT to be the easiest matchup ever. I think Raven Energy costs need a reduction across the board. I'd say reduce Auto-turret to 25 Energy from 50 Energy whilst halving the duration, reduce the cost of Point Defense Drone to 50 and make Hunter Seeker Missile cost 75 Energy instead of 125 Energy. HSM already does poor splash damage in comparison to abilities like Fungal Growth and Psionic Storm. To be honest I'm happy with the amount of damage and the radius HSM does, it just desperately needs the energy cost for the ability to be decreased so that ravens aren't useless while you wait around for energy to build up so you can actually use HSM, and so that if possible you could actually cast HSM twice with a single raven if it has accumulated enough energy instead of it only being able to cast once.
Yea HSM is very good, the problem is the energy cost
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I think HSM should be lowered to 100. 75 just seems a little too low for the damage it does.
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On August 31 2012 23:21 Jaegeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 23:01 Pusekatten wrote:On August 19 2012 11:19 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:16 Forikorder wrote:On August 19 2012 11:14 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:12 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
Another wall of text from Avilo, are you losing 100% of your TvZs or something? Terrans have been doing quite well recently in all stages of the matchup. a) the wall of text is discussing how a raven speed buff does nothing for the match-up, and speed does nothing to address any core issues. b) thread is not about me personally c) I would suggest you look at tournament results, winrates, and general trends because they disagree with your assessment. the game doesnt need a giant change doing small things like making ravens faster and creep slower is exactly what blizz needs to do the game is so balanced right now that a careless nerf or buff just makes it more imbalanced they need small nerfs taht are carefully thought out and tested and watched religiously people said the same thing about warp prisoms now warp prism harass is hugely hard to deal with as Zerg You mean no careless unnecessary giant changes like giving the queen an extra two range in an already close to 50-50 balanced match-up...right? As for blizzard going slow with changes, that is great, but changing raven speed does nothing to address any of the balance issues for the TvZ match-up that occurred after the queen buff patch. The creep spread nerf I'm sure most players agree blizzard needs to do. I think you are forgeting the part where the terran was pretty much untoucheble while having the chanse to kill the zerg early game. And what exactly is wrong with terran having a chance at killing zerg early on through aggression like 11/11 rax, they were no where near untouchable and you make it sound like it's so wrong for the zerg being forced to scout cheese in order to prepare for it and hold it instead of blindly making 4+ queens and pulling a couple of drones in order to hold cheeses like 11/11 or 12/14 rax. Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 22:59 Clbull wrote:
As a Zerg who finds ZvT to be the easiest matchup ever. I think Raven Energy costs need a reduction across the board. I'd say reduce Auto-turret to 25 Energy from 50 Energy whilst halving the duration, reduce the cost of Point Defense Drone to 50 and make Hunter Seeker Missile cost 75 Energy instead of 125 Energy. HSM already does poor splash damage in comparison to abilities like Fungal Growth and Psionic Storm. To be honest I'm happy with the amount of damage and the radius HSM does, it just desperately needs the energy cost for the ability to be decreased so that ravens aren't useless while you wait around for energy to build up so you can actually use HSM, and so that if possible you could actually cast HSM twice with a single raven if it has accumulated enough energy instead of it only being able to cast once.
I was thinking somewhere along the lines off the 6 reactor helion opening, where the terran could be lucky and roast all the zergs drones, and the zerg had a hard time to know what the terran did behind this if they had 1-2 well placed marines to kill off the scouting overlord.
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On August 31 2012 23:21 Jaegeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 23:01 Pusekatten wrote:On August 19 2012 11:19 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:16 Forikorder wrote:On August 19 2012 11:14 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:12 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
Another wall of text from Avilo, are you losing 100% of your TvZs or something? Terrans have been doing quite well recently in all stages of the matchup. a) the wall of text is discussing how a raven speed buff does nothing for the match-up, and speed does nothing to address any core issues. b) thread is not about me personally c) I would suggest you look at tournament results, winrates, and general trends because they disagree with your assessment. the game doesnt need a giant change doing small things like making ravens faster and creep slower is exactly what blizz needs to do the game is so balanced right now that a careless nerf or buff just makes it more imbalanced they need small nerfs taht are carefully thought out and tested and watched religiously people said the same thing about warp prisoms now warp prism harass is hugely hard to deal with as Zerg You mean no careless unnecessary giant changes like giving the queen an extra two range in an already close to 50-50 balanced match-up...right? As for blizzard going slow with changes, that is great, but changing raven speed does nothing to address any of the balance issues for the TvZ match-up that occurred after the queen buff patch. The creep spread nerf I'm sure most players agree blizzard needs to do. I think you are forgeting the part where the terran was pretty much untoucheble while having the chanse to kill the zerg early game. And what exactly is wrong with terran having a chance at killing zerg early on through aggression like 11/11 rax, they were no where near untouchable and you make it sound like it's so wrong for the zerg being forced to scout cheese in order to prepare for it and hold it instead of blindly making 4+ queens and pulling a couple of drones in order to hold cheeses like 11/11 or 12/14 rax. Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 22:59 Clbull wrote:
As a Zerg who finds ZvT to be the easiest matchup ever. I think Raven Energy costs need a reduction across the board. I'd say reduce Auto-turret to 25 Energy from 50 Energy whilst halving the duration, reduce the cost of Point Defense Drone to 50 and make Hunter Seeker Missile cost 75 Energy instead of 125 Energy. HSM already does poor splash damage in comparison to abilities like Fungal Growth and Psionic Storm. To be honest I'm happy with the amount of damage and the radius HSM does, it just desperately needs the energy cost for the ability to be decreased so that ravens aren't useless while you wait around for energy to build up so you can actually use HSM, and so that if possible you could actually cast HSM twice with a single raven if it has accumulated enough energy instead of it only being able to cast once.
When the missiles can be spammed many at a time and still their damage STACK they should never do the same damage/have too low energy cost as storm/fungal. Can you imagine storm and fungal getting spammed on the same groups stacking damage? x.x
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On September 01 2012 00:22 BBMorti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 23:21 Jaegeru wrote:On August 31 2012 23:01 Pusekatten wrote:On August 19 2012 11:19 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:16 Forikorder wrote:On August 19 2012 11:14 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:12 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
Another wall of text from Avilo, are you losing 100% of your TvZs or something? Terrans have been doing quite well recently in all stages of the matchup. a) the wall of text is discussing how a raven speed buff does nothing for the match-up, and speed does nothing to address any core issues. b) thread is not about me personally c) I would suggest you look at tournament results, winrates, and general trends because they disagree with your assessment. the game doesnt need a giant change doing small things like making ravens faster and creep slower is exactly what blizz needs to do the game is so balanced right now that a careless nerf or buff just makes it more imbalanced they need small nerfs taht are carefully thought out and tested and watched religiously people said the same thing about warp prisoms now warp prism harass is hugely hard to deal with as Zerg You mean no careless unnecessary giant changes like giving the queen an extra two range in an already close to 50-50 balanced match-up...right? As for blizzard going slow with changes, that is great, but changing raven speed does nothing to address any of the balance issues for the TvZ match-up that occurred after the queen buff patch. The creep spread nerf I'm sure most players agree blizzard needs to do. I think you are forgeting the part where the terran was pretty much untoucheble while having the chanse to kill the zerg early game. And what exactly is wrong with terran having a chance at killing zerg early on through aggression like 11/11 rax, they were no where near untouchable and you make it sound like it's so wrong for the zerg being forced to scout cheese in order to prepare for it and hold it instead of blindly making 4+ queens and pulling a couple of drones in order to hold cheeses like 11/11 or 12/14 rax. On August 31 2012 22:59 Clbull wrote:
As a Zerg who finds ZvT to be the easiest matchup ever. I think Raven Energy costs need a reduction across the board. I'd say reduce Auto-turret to 25 Energy from 50 Energy whilst halving the duration, reduce the cost of Point Defense Drone to 50 and make Hunter Seeker Missile cost 75 Energy instead of 125 Energy. HSM already does poor splash damage in comparison to abilities like Fungal Growth and Psionic Storm. To be honest I'm happy with the amount of damage and the radius HSM does, it just desperately needs the energy cost for the ability to be decreased so that ravens aren't useless while you wait around for energy to build up so you can actually use HSM, and so that if possible you could actually cast HSM twice with a single raven if it has accumulated enough energy instead of it only being able to cast once. When the missiles can be spammed many at a time and still their damage STACK they should never do the same damage/have too low energy cost as storm/fungal. Can you imagine storm and fungal getting spammed on the same groups stacking damage? x.x
Fungal/Storm does instant damage as well, just in low amounts, then it dots, so it is possible to sort of stack. At least last night I noticed double or triple fungals instantly putting my units in the yellow.
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On September 01 2012 00:22 BBMorti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 23:21 Jaegeru wrote:On August 31 2012 23:01 Pusekatten wrote:On August 19 2012 11:19 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:16 Forikorder wrote:On August 19 2012 11:14 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:12 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
Another wall of text from Avilo, are you losing 100% of your TvZs or something? Terrans have been doing quite well recently in all stages of the matchup. a) the wall of text is discussing how a raven speed buff does nothing for the match-up, and speed does nothing to address any core issues. b) thread is not about me personally c) I would suggest you look at tournament results, winrates, and general trends because they disagree with your assessment. the game doesnt need a giant change doing small things like making ravens faster and creep slower is exactly what blizz needs to do the game is so balanced right now that a careless nerf or buff just makes it more imbalanced they need small nerfs taht are carefully thought out and tested and watched religiously people said the same thing about warp prisoms now warp prism harass is hugely hard to deal with as Zerg You mean no careless unnecessary giant changes like giving the queen an extra two range in an already close to 50-50 balanced match-up...right? As for blizzard going slow with changes, that is great, but changing raven speed does nothing to address any of the balance issues for the TvZ match-up that occurred after the queen buff patch. The creep spread nerf I'm sure most players agree blizzard needs to do. I think you are forgeting the part where the terran was pretty much untoucheble while having the chanse to kill the zerg early game. And what exactly is wrong with terran having a chance at killing zerg early on through aggression like 11/11 rax, they were no where near untouchable and you make it sound like it's so wrong for the zerg being forced to scout cheese in order to prepare for it and hold it instead of blindly making 4+ queens and pulling a couple of drones in order to hold cheeses like 11/11 or 12/14 rax. On August 31 2012 22:59 Clbull wrote:
As a Zerg who finds ZvT to be the easiest matchup ever. I think Raven Energy costs need a reduction across the board. I'd say reduce Auto-turret to 25 Energy from 50 Energy whilst halving the duration, reduce the cost of Point Defense Drone to 50 and make Hunter Seeker Missile cost 75 Energy instead of 125 Energy. HSM already does poor splash damage in comparison to abilities like Fungal Growth and Psionic Storm. To be honest I'm happy with the amount of damage and the radius HSM does, it just desperately needs the energy cost for the ability to be decreased so that ravens aren't useless while you wait around for energy to build up so you can actually use HSM, and so that if possible you could actually cast HSM twice with a single raven if it has accumulated enough energy instead of it only being able to cast once. When the missiles can be spammed many at a time and still their damage STACK they should never do the same damage/have too low energy cost as storm/fungal. Can you imagine storm and fungal getting spammed on the same groups stacking damage? x.x
On September 01 2012 00:22 BBMorti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 23:21 Jaegeru wrote:On August 31 2012 23:01 Pusekatten wrote:On August 19 2012 11:19 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:16 Forikorder wrote:On August 19 2012 11:14 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:12 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
Another wall of text from Avilo, are you losing 100% of your TvZs or something? Terrans have been doing quite well recently in all stages of the matchup. a) the wall of text is discussing how a raven speed buff does nothing for the match-up, and speed does nothing to address any core issues. b) thread is not about me personally c) I would suggest you look at tournament results, winrates, and general trends because they disagree with your assessment. the game doesnt need a giant change doing small things like making ravens faster and creep slower is exactly what blizz needs to do the game is so balanced right now that a careless nerf or buff just makes it more imbalanced they need small nerfs taht are carefully thought out and tested and watched religiously people said the same thing about warp prisoms now warp prism harass is hugely hard to deal with as Zerg You mean no careless unnecessary giant changes like giving the queen an extra two range in an already close to 50-50 balanced match-up...right? As for blizzard going slow with changes, that is great, but changing raven speed does nothing to address any of the balance issues for the TvZ match-up that occurred after the queen buff patch. The creep spread nerf I'm sure most players agree blizzard needs to do. I think you are forgeting the part where the terran was pretty much untoucheble while having the chanse to kill the zerg early game. And what exactly is wrong with terran having a chance at killing zerg early on through aggression like 11/11 rax, they were no where near untouchable and you make it sound like it's so wrong for the zerg being forced to scout cheese in order to prepare for it and hold it instead of blindly making 4+ queens and pulling a couple of drones in order to hold cheeses like 11/11 or 12/14 rax. On August 31 2012 22:59 Clbull wrote:
As a Zerg who finds ZvT to be the easiest matchup ever. I think Raven Energy costs need a reduction across the board. I'd say reduce Auto-turret to 25 Energy from 50 Energy whilst halving the duration, reduce the cost of Point Defense Drone to 50 and make Hunter Seeker Missile cost 75 Energy instead of 125 Energy. HSM already does poor splash damage in comparison to abilities like Fungal Growth and Psionic Storm. To be honest I'm happy with the amount of damage and the radius HSM does, it just desperately needs the energy cost for the ability to be decreased so that ravens aren't useless while you wait around for energy to build up so you can actually use HSM, and so that if possible you could actually cast HSM twice with a single raven if it has accumulated enough energy instead of it only being able to cast once. When the missiles can be spammed many at a time and still their damage STACK they should never do the same damage/have too low energy cost as storm/fungal. Can you imagine storm and fungal getting spammed on the same groups stacking damage? x.x
You can still micro away from HSM though, if missiles were targeted onto infestors or corruptors you can still micro away from them though minimising damage taken and broodlords can be presplit despite them moving incredibly slowly. Whereas spells like fungal are instant and cannot be micro'd out of unless zerg makes a mistake and misses a chain fungal.
Though many ravens shouldn't get a chance to cast HSM and do significant damage since fungal has a greater range than HSM too.
Edit: Different races are different so shouldn't be argued about what spell casters are best. I guess it's just up to terran to turtle up and accumulate raven energy then individually split their ravens while microing the rest of their army to get off some HSM's then it's up to zerg to find a way to negate HSM and micro out of it.
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On September 01 2012 00:50 Jaegeru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 00:22 BBMorti wrote:On August 31 2012 23:21 Jaegeru wrote:On August 31 2012 23:01 Pusekatten wrote:On August 19 2012 11:19 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:16 Forikorder wrote:On August 19 2012 11:14 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:12 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
Another wall of text from Avilo, are you losing 100% of your TvZs or something? Terrans have been doing quite well recently in all stages of the matchup. a) the wall of text is discussing how a raven speed buff does nothing for the match-up, and speed does nothing to address any core issues. b) thread is not about me personally c) I would suggest you look at tournament results, winrates, and general trends because they disagree with your assessment. the game doesnt need a giant change doing small things like making ravens faster and creep slower is exactly what blizz needs to do the game is so balanced right now that a careless nerf or buff just makes it more imbalanced they need small nerfs taht are carefully thought out and tested and watched religiously people said the same thing about warp prisoms now warp prism harass is hugely hard to deal with as Zerg You mean no careless unnecessary giant changes like giving the queen an extra two range in an already close to 50-50 balanced match-up...right? As for blizzard going slow with changes, that is great, but changing raven speed does nothing to address any of the balance issues for the TvZ match-up that occurred after the queen buff patch. The creep spread nerf I'm sure most players agree blizzard needs to do. I think you are forgeting the part where the terran was pretty much untoucheble while having the chanse to kill the zerg early game. And what exactly is wrong with terran having a chance at killing zerg early on through aggression like 11/11 rax, they were no where near untouchable and you make it sound like it's so wrong for the zerg being forced to scout cheese in order to prepare for it and hold it instead of blindly making 4+ queens and pulling a couple of drones in order to hold cheeses like 11/11 or 12/14 rax. On August 31 2012 22:59 Clbull wrote:
As a Zerg who finds ZvT to be the easiest matchup ever. I think Raven Energy costs need a reduction across the board. I'd say reduce Auto-turret to 25 Energy from 50 Energy whilst halving the duration, reduce the cost of Point Defense Drone to 50 and make Hunter Seeker Missile cost 75 Energy instead of 125 Energy. HSM already does poor splash damage in comparison to abilities like Fungal Growth and Psionic Storm. To be honest I'm happy with the amount of damage and the radius HSM does, it just desperately needs the energy cost for the ability to be decreased so that ravens aren't useless while you wait around for energy to build up so you can actually use HSM, and so that if possible you could actually cast HSM twice with a single raven if it has accumulated enough energy instead of it only being able to cast once. When the missiles can be spammed many at a time and still their damage STACK they should never do the same damage/have too low energy cost as storm/fungal. Can you imagine storm and fungal getting spammed on the same groups stacking damage? x.x Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 00:22 BBMorti wrote:On August 31 2012 23:21 Jaegeru wrote:On August 31 2012 23:01 Pusekatten wrote:On August 19 2012 11:19 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:16 Forikorder wrote:On August 19 2012 11:14 avilo wrote:On August 19 2012 11:12 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
Another wall of text from Avilo, are you losing 100% of your TvZs or something? Terrans have been doing quite well recently in all stages of the matchup. a) the wall of text is discussing how a raven speed buff does nothing for the match-up, and speed does nothing to address any core issues. b) thread is not about me personally c) I would suggest you look at tournament results, winrates, and general trends because they disagree with your assessment. the game doesnt need a giant change doing small things like making ravens faster and creep slower is exactly what blizz needs to do the game is so balanced right now that a careless nerf or buff just makes it more imbalanced they need small nerfs taht are carefully thought out and tested and watched religiously people said the same thing about warp prisoms now warp prism harass is hugely hard to deal with as Zerg You mean no careless unnecessary giant changes like giving the queen an extra two range in an already close to 50-50 balanced match-up...right? As for blizzard going slow with changes, that is great, but changing raven speed does nothing to address any of the balance issues for the TvZ match-up that occurred after the queen buff patch. The creep spread nerf I'm sure most players agree blizzard needs to do. I think you are forgeting the part where the terran was pretty much untoucheble while having the chanse to kill the zerg early game. And what exactly is wrong with terran having a chance at killing zerg early on through aggression like 11/11 rax, they were no where near untouchable and you make it sound like it's so wrong for the zerg being forced to scout cheese in order to prepare for it and hold it instead of blindly making 4+ queens and pulling a couple of drones in order to hold cheeses like 11/11 or 12/14 rax. On August 31 2012 22:59 Clbull wrote:
As a Zerg who finds ZvT to be the easiest matchup ever. I think Raven Energy costs need a reduction across the board. I'd say reduce Auto-turret to 25 Energy from 50 Energy whilst halving the duration, reduce the cost of Point Defense Drone to 50 and make Hunter Seeker Missile cost 75 Energy instead of 125 Energy. HSM already does poor splash damage in comparison to abilities like Fungal Growth and Psionic Storm. To be honest I'm happy with the amount of damage and the radius HSM does, it just desperately needs the energy cost for the ability to be decreased so that ravens aren't useless while you wait around for energy to build up so you can actually use HSM, and so that if possible you could actually cast HSM twice with a single raven if it has accumulated enough energy instead of it only being able to cast once. When the missiles can be spammed many at a time and still their damage STACK they should never do the same damage/have too low energy cost as storm/fungal. Can you imagine storm and fungal getting spammed on the same groups stacking damage? x.x You can still micro away from HSM though, if missiles were targeted onto infestors or corruptors you can still micro away from them though minimising damage taken and broodlords can be presplit despite them moving incredibly slowly. Whereas spells like fungal are instant and cannot be micro'd out of unless zerg makes a mistake and misses a chain fungal. Though many ravens shouldn't get a chance to cast HSM and do significant damage since fungal has a greater range than HSM too.
Instant or not instant, the dynamic that Fungal and HSM create is basically the same in an actual game: you need to presplit, because splitting during battle - whether it is because an infestor is getting close to 9range of your troops or a HSM has been started - is just not that efficient to rely on in combat.
And though Fungal has a higher range than HSM, saying that most Ravens should not be able to even start HSM is like saying that most Infestors should never be in range to cast a fungal, because they should die to siege tanks first. It's just not working this way, because there is too much stuff happening to handle everything perfectly.
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BREAKING.
David Kim will not make any change in TvZ, as explained in the latest situation report :
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/5773226/Situation_Report_August_31_2012-31_08_2012
So there won't be any buff for us or any nerf for zergs, thanks to MvP and other top players.
It means we're screwed at lower levels, as usual. We're not able to safely transitioning to skyterran like these incredible players can… I feel so punished for being Terran since a few months. I'm playing less & less and I don't know if I can handle more. It's just terribly hard (at my level, high diamond / low master) and disappointing to constantly lose to worst players that just throw their a click army without care and still winning. They just care about macroing like crazy which I have to do too on top of constant baby-sitting my army and drops. Their race design requires absolutely no skill since the patch, whereas before, it was a great and dynamic matchup with hard micro needed from both players. It makes me really sad.
And while we play a lot greedier now, a lot of them also like to commit to huge baneling bust that are so freaking hard to stop even with 4 fucking repaired bunkers against no microed banelings, and when I ask for advice, they just answer "tank good unit". How the fuck they want me to waste my gas on early tanks instead of crucial upgrades for my bio. With my 120 apm, I'm not able to use the hellion / banshee opener even after 20 tries, because
• It forces me to go mech and I find it boring and passive
• I will be horribly late for my bio upgrades & support
• The multitasking needed just screw my macro up…
I'm lost in this matchup while I was a total beast with non-stop dropping agression before the patch, and I could cripple all zergs even the master ones. Now that they're safe in the early game and have insane creep for the midgame, they can get the eco & tech much faster than before, it's incredibly hard. I spent so much time in this game trying to improve, it almost makes me want to cry to lose against such a badly designed matchup where no multitasking or micro is needed for one race while the other has to do all the work… It was so much better before. I guess it's time to stop SCII for me. Heart of the Swarm doesn't head in the right direction either, I don't want a fucking a click army and wait 20 min doing nothing…
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On September 01 2012 01:12 pimsc2 wrote:BREAKING. David Kim talks about it in the latest situation report : http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/5773226/Situation_Report_August_31_2012-31_08_2012There won't be any buff fo rus or any nerf for zergs, thanks to MvP and other top players.It means we're screwed at lower levels, as usual. We're not able to safely transitioning to skyterran like these incredible players can… I feel so punished for being Terran since a few months. I'm playing less & less and I don't know if I can handle more. It's just terribly hard (at my level, high diamond / low master) and disappointing to constantly lose to worst players that just throw their a click army without care and still winning. They just care about macroing like crazy which I have to do too on top of constant baby-sitting my army and drops. Their race design requires absolutely no skill since the patch, whereas before, it was a great and dynamic matchup with hard micro needed from both players. It makes me really sad. And while we play a lot greedier now, a lot of them also like to commit to huge baneling bust that's impossible to stop even with 4 fucking repaired bunkers, and when I ask for advice, they just answer "tank good unit". I'm lost in this matchup while I was a total beast with non-stop dropping agression before the patch, and I could cripple all zergs even the master ones. Now that they're safe and have insane creep tumors, they can have the eco & tech much faster than before, it's incredibly hard. I spent so much time in this game trying to improve, it almost makes me want to cry to lose against such a badly designed matchup where no multitasking or micro is needed for one race while the other has to do all the work… I guess it's time to stop SCII for me. Heart of the Swarm doesn't head in the right direction either, I don't want a fucking a click army and wait 20 min doing nothing…
why would you ask the monkeys you play against for advices, just ask better players
and honestly most of your ranting is unrelated to balance but more related to your lack of skills/practice, so get to work and improve until you beat them easily or just stop playing if you can't handle it
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MVP 4 time GSL champion beats foreigner zerg, all must be balanced.
Yeah OK, so MVP and Kas made good use of HSM in a couple of series, mainly due to surprise.
Once zerg figure out a timing that hits after terran has spent all the money on starports and upgrades but before HSM is ready it will be a different story. Ravens are great when they have a bunch of energy and upgrades, but that takes way too long atm.
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On September 01 2012 01:33 Willzzz wrote:
MVP 4 time GSL champion beats foreigner zerg, all must be balanced.
Yeah OK, so MVP and Kas made good use of HSM in a couple of series, mainly due to surprise.
Once zerg figure out a timing that hits after terran has spent all the money on starports and upgrades but before HSM is ready it will be a different story. Ravens are great when they have a bunch of energy and upgrades, but that takes way too long atm.
beats nestea too
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and honestly most of your ranting is unrelated to balance but more related to your lack of skills/practice, so get to work and improve until you beat them easily or just stop playing if you can't handle it
Balance is for all levels. We bought the game to have fun, and all of us don't have 60 hours a week to spend on Starcraft, and I already spent a lot of time on this game (like 6-8 hours a week) + watching replays & streams & competitions. I just want to feel outplayed when I lose, that was the case when a good zerg destroyed me with perfect muta harass, hellion defense, or great flanking. At my level, now it's just rushing for hive tech and a clicking, or baneling busting early. I mean, they shouldn't be able to destroy me when they have terrible controls. But they do. And I have really great bio control, all the zergs players I have beat in the past complimented me on this ! They recognized they were outmultitasked and outmicroed. I just no longer feel on a equal footing now. How can my very best matchup (like 80% winrate) just became my worst in a few weeks. I just can't believe it.
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On September 01 2012 01:32 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:12 pimsc2 wrote:BREAKING. David Kim talks about it in the latest situation report : http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/5773226/Situation_Report_August_31_2012-31_08_2012There won't be any buff fo rus or any nerf for zergs, thanks to MvP and other top players.It means we're screwed at lower levels, as usual. We're not able to safely transitioning to skyterran like these incredible players can… I feel so punished for being Terran since a few months. I'm playing less & less and I don't know if I can handle more. It's just terribly hard (at my level, high diamond / low master) and disappointing to constantly lose to worst players that just throw their a click army without care and still winning. They just care about macroing like crazy which I have to do too on top of constant baby-sitting my army and drops. Their race design requires absolutely no skill since the patch, whereas before, it was a great and dynamic matchup with hard micro needed from both players. It makes me really sad. And while we play a lot greedier now, a lot of them also like to commit to huge baneling bust that's impossible to stop even with 4 fucking repaired bunkers, and when I ask for advice, they just answer "tank good unit". I'm lost in this matchup while I was a total beast with non-stop dropping agression before the patch, and I could cripple all zergs even the master ones. Now that they're safe and have insane creep tumors, they can have the eco & tech much faster than before, it's incredibly hard. I spent so much time in this game trying to improve, it almost makes me want to cry to lose against such a badly designed matchup where no multitasking or micro is needed for one race while the other has to do all the work… I guess it's time to stop SCII for me. Heart of the Swarm doesn't head in the right direction either, I don't want a fucking a click army and wait 20 min doing nothing… why would you ask the monkeys you play against for advices, just ask better players and honestly most of your ranting is unrelated to balance but more related to your lack of skills/practice, so get to work and improve until you beat them easily or just stop playing if you can't handle it
Well said sir. I am so inspired by this, I think I will take time this weekend to lose games practicing my horrible blink micro. Losing those game is the only way I will ever get passible blink micro.
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You cant balance a game for all levels.
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"A raven speed buff does zero to address these issues because the problem is and never will be raven speed. The problem is how fungal growth pins down ravens making HSM unusable, and the amount of time necessary to put ravens into play and make them pay themselves off.
"
I would verry much welcome a raven speed buf and i do found their slow speed a deterent from using them to their full potential.
Fungal growth locking down ravens is not a problem of the raven,anny unit can be locked down by fungal growth.
If this is realy a problem then fungal growth is the problem, not the raven.
The amount of time needed to get them into play with hsm is indeed a problem,they could lower the energy needed for hsm maybe.
Still i would be pretty pleased with just a speed buf, the raven would then become more viable for harras with auto turrets, hsm is not its only spell.
Its good that ravens get a buff at least
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On September 01 2012 01:39 pimsc2 wrote:Show nested quote +and honestly most of your ranting is unrelated to balance but more related to your lack of skills/practice, so get to work and improve until you beat them easily or just stop playing if you can't handle it Balance is for all levels. We bought the game to have fun, and all of us don't have 60 hours a week to spend on Starcraft, and I already spent a lot of time on this game (like 6-8 hours a week) + watching replays & streams & competitions. I just want to feel outplayed when I lose, that was the case when a good zerg destroyed me with perfect muta harass, hellion defense, or great flanking. At my level, now it's just rushing for hive tech and a clicking, or baneling busting early. I mean, they shouldn't be able to destroy me when they have terrible controls. But they do. And I have really great bio control, all the zergs players I have beat in the past complimented me on this ! They recognized they were outmultitasked and outmicroed. I just no longer feel on a equal footing now. How can my very best matchup (like 80% winrate) just became my worst in a few weeks. I just can't believe it.
I have to assume your macro is flawless since it requires no skill at all, and no clearly balance isn't for all level since all units are not used in the same manner
some units will always be harder to use than other, it's literally impossible to balance the game on all levels and the priority will obviously be pro level since they play for a living...
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It would be absolutely possible to "balance" the game in a way that bad controls equal bad outcome no matter what. They should make zergs & protoss harder to control. It wouldn't change anything at the pro level, because pro players have amazing controls, but at lower levels, it's clearly not the case, you know terrans have to work a lot harder than just macroing if they want to win. The racial distribution among higher leagues (diamond & higher) speak for itself : It's like 20% terran, 35% zerg, 35% protoss, 10% random… But Blizzard preferred balancing the opposite way in the future HOTS, offering an easier to control army for terrans… It's just a terrible way of designing the game.
My macro is not flawless but I reach all the standards timing (53 vcs at 10:00, etc) and I love orbital farms lategame. In replays, my late game production is not that far with what I see from pro players : it's like 12 marines - 2 marauders - 2 medivacs - 2 tanks at a time. It's at least on par with players of my levels, if not better. I just should lose against better players, and win against worst. Since the patch, it's not the longer the case. The balance was much better a few months ago, where good zergs were really impressive, denied all early pressure, the mid game drops and deserved their win. The other ones deserved to lose because of their poor scouting, guessing, and multitasking. Now they can scout with overlords, have 6 queens for early defense, and rush T3 without being too annoyed.
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EPT
