EPTOn August 15 2012 00:54 0neder wrote:
In before 5 people tell you that is INCONCEIVABLE for some inane reason.
In before 5 people tell you that is INCONCEIVABLE for some inane reason.
I would like to see what their reason is tbh.
Heart of the Swarm TvP Battle Report! - Page 57
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ref4
2933 Posts
I would like to see what their reason is tbh. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
Forcing certain kinds of play through deliberately making the UI worse is a bandage on a festering wound, not a cure. | ||
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Empirimancer
Canada1024 Posts
1) People will 1a, 2a, 3a, 4a instead of 1a. It takes more APM, but it doesn't kill the deathball. 2) It's generally not a good idea to use an arbitrary UI limitation to alter game design. Better to use in-game logic to do so. I think a better way (and I'm not the first one to suggest this) would be to buff AOE damage and/or area for all races, so that big clumps of units are more vulnerable. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
Most people prefer a strategy game where you fight the opponent, not a crippled UI. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On August 14 2012 14:50 luuk wrote: this battle report was so boring, i cant believe it. i wont criticise everything ive just seen, but let me complain about one thing: what the f*** hell is this map? it looks terrible, is too small, has fucking rocks everywhere (a new rocks type? why not, cause everybody loved rocks, huh...) and STILL has gold minerals? have they learned ANYTHING from the past and what the community wants? thats tremendous A boring game where the commentators fake excitement is standard for the Battle Reports ... but sadly this only excites those six-year-olds who havent seen a real game of Starcraft yet. A small map is standard for the Battle Reports (and Blizzard) ... but sadly this screws up the balance of the units. Gold minerals are not that terrible if the base isnt that accessible and more in the middle. The new rocks are a nice thing, but Terrans honestly should have an "engineer corps" unit which can create rock barricades anywhere. Protoss and Zerg both have their Force Field and Fungal Growth spells to "change the battlefield" and Terrans should have something similarly easy. All-in-all a very disappointing thing to see Day[9] do ... I had hoped to see only higher quality things coming from him, but that seems to be a thing of the past and now he is "for sale". This game on a bad map and by "first time gamers who dont know how to play" is only strengthening my opinion that Blizzard doesnt care. | ||
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Nagano
United States1157 Posts
On August 15 2012 00:08 Shiori wrote: Take your annoyingly pretentious psychoanalytic tripe somewhere else, thanks. "Pretentious", "Psychoanalytic"... I don't even... First of all the guy is completely right about the overreaction of this "community". It's in the devs' best interest to keep this game fun, interesting, and balanced. To think they're out to ruin the game, to make it uninteresting and imbalanced, or that they won't make the necessary changes if problems arise is unrealistic and naive. Couple that with how many people, especially pros, have played HotS and really dug into the metagame it offers (~nil), then you can kiiiiiiiind of see the reason why people are overreacting and being unreasonable in their critique (read: whine). I'm looking forward to all the new units. Having played the HotS custom map for a while, I can definitely say that the oracle is more game-changing than it's given credit for. For example, just energize it out of the stargate, it can do 3 entombs in a matter of 20 seconds, fly it back to the base in 10 seconds (it moves fast), energize it again, 3 entombs again, rinse repeat. If an attack comes energize if you need to then cloak. It's a unit that brings so much delay to the enemy eco if energized, gives you a maphack into their base, and defends against all-ins with ease with cloak. It's actually ridiculous. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On August 15 2012 01:12 Nagano wrote: "Pretentious", "Psychoanalytic"... I don't even... First of all the guy is completely right about the overreaction of this "community". It's in the devs' best interest to keep this game fun, interesting, and balanced. To think they're out to ruin the game, to make it uninteresting and imbalanced, or that they won't make the necessary changes if problems arise is unrealistic and naive. Couple that with how many people, especially pros, have played HotS and really dug into the metagame it offers (~nil), then you can kiiiiiiiind of see the reason why people are overreacting and being unreasonable in their critique (read: whine). I'm looking forward to all the new units. Having played the HotS custom map for a while, I can definitely say that the oracle is more game-changing than it's given credit for. For example, just energize it out of the stargate, it can do 3 entombs in a matter of 20 seconds, fly it back to the base in 10 seconds (it moves fast), energize it again, 3 entombs again, rinse repeat. If an attack comes energize if you need to then cloak. It's a unit that brings so much delay to the enemy eco if energized, gives you a maphack into their base, and defends against all-ins with ease with cloak. It's actually ridiculous. So what, we're not allowed to say why something looks like a stupid/useless idea? I mean, we even have the HotS test map at our disposal. The point of giving feedback is so that Blizzard can make changes sooner rather than later. They wouldn't bother making battle reports if they didn't want people to actually watch them and form opinions about HotS. It's in Blizzard's best interest to hear our critiques because when HotS comes out, people with buy it or not buy it based on their impression of the game, not on having played it. | ||
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XaCez
Sweden6991 Posts
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On August 15 2012 01:18 Xacez wrote: What role is the Tempest supposed to fulfil? To break siege lines of the new mech TvP, I assume. Also for BL/Spines. Basically it forces an engagement on Protoss's terms. I actually don't think it's too bad an idea depending on how everything else works out. | ||
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Signus
United States269 Posts
The only issue I can see with this is players being less exploratory in their play in order to win more consistently, but I don't think that means the changes won't be experimented with. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On August 15 2012 01:21 FuzzyJAM wrote: To break siege lines of the new mech TvP, I assume. Also for BL/Spines. Basically it forces an engagement on Protoss's terms. I actually don't think it's too bad an idea depending on how everything else works out. The question is why would you want to build siege tanks  . Every tech tree has a direct counter to the Tank. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On August 15 2012 01:29 GinDo wrote: The question is why would you want to build siege tanks . Every tech tree has a direct counter to the Tank.As someone who mechs in Protoss now, although they have "direct counters" to the tanks, you have ways around them. Blink for example on paper should counter tanks but they get decimated and well used hellions can really help against chargelots. Immortals are the counter to tanks really, but with EMP and lots of hellions you can punish them for not targeting their immortals. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On August 15 2012 01:21 FuzzyJAM wrote: To break siege lines of the new mech TvP, I assume. Also for BL/Spines. Basically it forces an engagement on Protoss's terms. I actually don't think it's too bad an idea depending on how everything else works out. For a unit designed to break defensive formations, it wasn't particularly effective in the BR. I kept thinking that if it was 4 carriers instead of 4 tempests the protoss might have won. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11047 Posts
Part of what makes SC2 a bit more fun and more enjoyable for the casual person playing is that you can engage in semi-complex play. I'll admit the fact sc2 is easier than BW made it a little more interesting for me for a long time (Also the ease of finding good competitive games on pro-maps is nice). | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
On August 15 2012 01:29 GinDo wrote: The question is why would you want to build siege tanks . Every tech tree has a direct counter to the Tank.Siege Lines not Siege tanks. I thought this was an RTS game. Last thing i want to see is world war 1 tactics employed which is what is currently happening at the moment in most late games If the Tempest is Blizzards answer for Protoss late game i feel sad  | ||
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shin ken
Germany612 Posts
What has become of the first (pre-beta) bonjwa of SC2 | ||
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TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
On August 14 2012 17:26 Vindicare605 wrote: Terrans have sensor towers, which are GROSSLY underutilized in both TvP and TvZ. All the Oracle is going to do is force more Sensor Towers out of Terrans, as well as a few turrets. Entomb will not break the match up in anyway. Honestly I really feel like way too many people are freaking out about the Oracle. Of course Entomb should be relatively easy to execute and it should be powerful, you aren't losing workers or expansions you're just getting your minerals blocked, for crying out loud it doesnt even affect your gas income. Once people get used to the unit being in the game and now to prepare for it, it won't even be a big deal anymore, honestly. I think you quoted the wrong one of my posts. Anyhow, I don't have any idea whether or not Oracle would be game breaking. I just don't think it looks like a fun unit -- Idea: what if they gave the Thor the ability to siege up and become immobile, just like the siege tank, except in this mode it has no ground attack, just a powerful long-ranged air attack? It would go a long way to making mech more viable I think, and it could be cool. I don't know. Thoughts? Actually, wait, no, this makes far more sense: On August 14 2012 18:00 Infernal Knight wrote: My personal opinion is that the Warhound would have been better as what it was originally proposed as; an antiair specialist with a mediocre ground attack, so that if you overmake them like that you're pretty boned when it comes to an actual ground fight. Haywire Missile is just dumb. A while back someone proposed a different, more interesting (active) ability instead, I think it was something along the lines of being able to temporarily generate line of sight blockers - smokescreens. If the Warhound's job is to cover the Siege Tanks which are supposed to be the big guns, then strong antiair and LoS shenanigans would work a lot better in that case. I realize Thors might get the boot in this case, but eh. So in a mech composition: Siege tank - anti armor and AoE splash Hellion - anti light, slight splash, and buffer for the tanks Warhound - anti air, buffer for the tanks Widow mine - a bit of crowd control for when you don't feel like spending minerals on more hellions and then there's the Thor... which needs some sort of spells to differentiate it (kinda like a raven in air compositions, something so that it's useful to have just a few around). Maybe not require an upgrade to get 250mm cannons? (I remember seeing Rainbow use cannons to decimate early game Collosi... the ability to lock down a unit is useful, so it seems like the upgrade might be underused... maybe it could be buffed to have longer range) but right now mech is more like: Hellion - anti light Warhound - anti armor Vikings - anti air... unless people can actually make the Thor work Widow mine - a bit of crowd control which is far less interesting | ||
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vovalol
Israel14 Posts
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