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On August 14 2012 23:01 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 22:56 NightOfTheDead wrote:On August 14 2012 22:25 Doodsmack wrote:
I hope people realize that it's unintelligent to draw sweeping conclusions about balance and game design based on one game you watched which had sub-optimal builds and compositions. Just be patient with your complaining and wait until you've tested the game. Think back to when you claimed that HTs would become obsolete if they took out khaydarin amulet. You're capable of making smarter assessments if you just take a little more time to think and look back over what you wrote before hitting the post button Thing is when WoL came out, nobody knew how it will turn out, what strategies are going to be there, etc., because it had begun from scratch. Now difference here being, they add upon existing infrastructure and units to tweak strategies, and devs themselves for sure play sc2 much much better and understand it so much more. Question is: why in hell would they put mechanical marauder, when there is one already? A lot of choices made for Hots are seen as really skill discouraging by introducing units that have defined role, and are straightforward. Not all units are bad, but some of a bunch really are. So, many are not happy, because they expect that awareness level of devs should be much much higher. Wait until you've tested the game before complaining about anything . It's the intelligent thing to do.
No, that's not the intelligent thing to do. There's a tonne of things we can glean from this video (and the others) mostly regarding Blizzard's mindset. If you'd like to keep making excuses not to think, that's fine, but don't pretend everyone who doesn't want to do that is unintelligent.
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Even though this was made more for show than anything else it was still very painful to watch through.
My one gripe with this sort of presentation is how you can actually evaluate the usefulness of any of the new units from that. OK, we know X unit is meant to do Y function, but does it? When players play so bad and just make units for the sake of it how can we know if it's function is being truly used?
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:20 BeyondCtrL wrote:
Even though this was made more for show than anything else it was still very painful to watch through.
My one gripe with this sort of presentation is how you can actually evaluate the usefulness of any of the new units from that. OK, we know X unit is meant to do Y function, but does it? When players play so bad and just make units for the sake of it how can we know if it's function is being truly used?
It's called a beta. It'll be happening soon :p
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Btw:
The tossed seriously messed up with his oracle... after it aquired the widow-mine, just run it into the terran mineral line for massive worker casualties.
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On August 14 2012 23:27 Thrombozyt wrote:
Btw:
The tossed seriously messed up with his oracle... after it aquired the widow-mine, just run it into the terran mineral line for massive worker casualties.
It was on purpose i think, they were testing the new units and showing what they can do etc, was all staged, looked like he pretended he was scouting but flew into the widow mines range on accident but it was most likely on purpose 
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Hmmm, I wonder if the the build of HotS that they will show off at Gamescom will be different...
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very nice battle report. A lot of interesting balance decisions. Oracles are great. I used starport openings with fast fenix to scout but oracle is so much better than that. Widow mine to counter oracle harass also nice. Core is really good for defending with range and dps. Terran mech looks promising with much more survivability than mm has. Tempest is also interesing unit but will be hard to use since obviously there is no reason to let a protoss observer chill over your army when tempests keep firing at it. Also the dps of tempests is not very high as you can see in the end while the protoss has a good number of those they just cant kill the terran army while constantly getting rid of vikings. Looks like temptests are an advantage unit which would be nice to get when you are ahead to force a fight or finish the opponent but not when you are about even.
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On August 14 2012 23:27 Thrombozyt wrote:
Btw:
The tossed seriously messed up with his oracle... after it aquired the widow-mine, just run it into the terran mineral line for massive worker casualties.
The widow mine splash does not damage friendly units in its current state I think.
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That widow mine seems a bit much. Air and ground with great splash damage.
Also did they modify the oracle so that blocking minerals has a time limit and a lot less HP? I recall it having no time limit and requiring actual units to break it down since workers alone didnt give damage enough for a fast takedown...
And from what i've seen so far, I really don't like the tempest. Slow movement, slow firing rate. Yea it has 22 range but it still seems so meh
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On August 14 2012 23:32 Cheerio wrote:
Looks like temptests are an advantage unit which would be nice to get when you are ahead to force a fight or finish the opponent but not when you are about even.
So basically carriers, but with terrible dps?
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On August 14 2012 10:50 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 10:49 Fishgle wrote:On August 14 2012 10:47 Horseballs wrote:
That doesn't look or feel like mech at all. agree 100%. he could have just made B.Hellions and BoxRobots, and it would have played out like a less micro-intensive bio. Warhounds are basically bigger Marauders ._. EDIT: with less micro
Yes, I'm worried about mech T being too a move friendly. We need more reason to enjoy controlling our units in battles. I understand Blizzard wants some things to be easier for beginners... but I really don't think armies that function as well with a-move for lowbies or pros is anywhere we want to go for a competitive title like SC2. Time will tell I guess. Maybe ghost + mech play will call for more intensive micro. Maybe switching hellions between modes will be useful.
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watched this earlier today, just recently started playing SC2 (avoided games due to university, blah blah blah), looking forward to the expansion, wings of liberty is amazing as it is though (in my opinion, I understand many will disagree; remember if you do you probably have greater expereince in the game than I do, I'm just saying this from a Nubs perspective). Thanks for the video Day9Tv 
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Can you people just shut up and stop complaining? Wait till the damn game comes out and a few patches to fix up whatever really needs to be fixed. If your so unexcited about the game...Don't play it! Whether or not its balanced as soon as it is released I'm extremely excited to see what this game holds with new units and strategies. All you people on here complaining are lame this game is going to be a blast with the new units cause I'm sick and tired of being able to predict how a game is going to end before it even starts....zerg gets broodlord infestor corruptor terran gets bio ghost or viking and protoss gets col/storm/mother ship... it gets pretty lame when I can already predict end game composition...this HotS is going to be a great addition with new units and strategies... I'm excited to see what players like MVP or MKP are going to do with new units ect...
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I don't post on this forum much, or really at all (as my post count will indicate). I was excited to see this battle report because I am excited for the new expansion. After watching it I decided to come over to the forum and maybe see if there was some interesting discussion going on---again, because I am excited for the new expansion. After reading through the first 20 pages or so and skimming the rest I have a few things I would like to contribute.
Most of you should be ashamed. Not embarrassed, but ashamed. This is the StarCraft community? Really?
To everybody who is whining about the hyped casting: What would you rather have Blizzard do? Release the battle report with casters who are hostile to HotS? What about casters who are apathetic: "Well this player is awful and these units aren't balanced so I don't really know why I'm casting this game...". There is no way the casters could give any true insight; they don't have any. They aren't even casting a competition, they are casting an exhibition. You try doing that and see how you sound to an overly critical know-it-all forum.
To everyone who is whining about design decisions: First of all, most of you probably know jack about game design. There are way more people saying that things are "broken by design" than there can possibly be competent game designers in this forum. Even if you do know something about game design, this is an alpha build, design decisions can still change... a lot.
To everyone whining about the gameplay: Again, they aren't playing a game, they are playing an exhibition. Granted, this battle report was poorly advertised as a glimpse of what TvP will look like in HotS. Obviously that's not what this is. But really, there is no way such a product could be delivered now is there? If that's really what you were expecting, then you only have your own naivete to blame.
To everyone whining about the map: Really? Remember Steppes of War? How about Incineration Zone? There are plenty of competent map makers in the community. HotS will not fail due do to bad maps.
In general, except for its name, there is nothing about HotS which is not uncertain in one way or another at this point. I'm not disenchanted because you are speculating---what else would happen in such a thread?---I'm disenchanted because of the manner in which most of you are doing it. I would hope that uncertainty would result in a _lack_ of conclusions, but most of what I see here is drawing conclusions from really nowhere. Now, in the absence of rational conclusions, the only other things that can constructively be contributed are your reaction on an emotional level, and opinions. Now most of you have chosen to react to the battle report with either fear (e.g. "please don't ruin bio in HotS"), or condescension (e.g. "this play/casting/map/design/idea/unit/... is awful"), or another flavor of negativity. If this is how you react in general to the unknown, I pity you and do not envy the stressful, unfulfilling life you must lead. The way I see it, all of the aspects of HotS which are not yet ironed out are only cause for hope and creativity.
To everyone whining about the warhound aesthetics: Yeah, I'm not really a fan of the warhound model either.
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On August 14 2012 22:34 Zane wrote:
CCs displaying how many workers you have mining still annoys me. What's next? I'll get a flashy warning and a voice will tell me when I need to make a depot or units?
You already get a flashy warning and a voice telling you that you when you need to make a depot.
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On August 14 2012 23:41 SmackDiablo wrote:
Can you people just shut up and stop complaining? Wait till the damn game comes out and a few patches to fix up whatever really needs to be fixed. If your so unexcited about the game...Don't play it! Whether or not its balanced as soon as it is released I'm extremely excited to see what this game holds with new units and strategies. All you people on here complaining are lame this game is going to be a blast with the new units cause I'm sick and tired of being able to predict how a game is going to end before it even starts....zerg gets broodlord infestor corruptor terran gets bio ghost or viking and protoss gets col/storm/mother ship... it gets pretty lame when I can already predict end game composition...this HotS is going to be a great addition with new units and strategies... I'm excited to see what players like MVP or MKP are going to do with new units ect...
It's actually better to complain before the game is released while it's in its alpha and beta stages. If the game comes out and is complete shit (like what we saw here) than you'd be one of the ones saying "well nobody complained about anything". That being said it looks terrible now but so did WoL in its alpha stages.
People mainly have a problem with Blizzard making the game more a-move friendly and that they're just adding units that mindlessly and directly solve the problems that races currently have which could be balanced yes, but is terrible game design. The more complaints there are to encourage micro and less deathball action, the better.
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On August 14 2012 23:57 bellsNkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 23:41 SmackDiablo wrote:
Can you people just shut up and stop complaining? Wait till the damn game comes out and a few patches to fix up whatever really needs to be fixed. If your so unexcited about the game...Don't play it! Whether or not its balanced as soon as it is released I'm extremely excited to see what this game holds with new units and strategies. All you people on here complaining are lame this game is going to be a blast with the new units cause I'm sick and tired of being able to predict how a game is going to end before it even starts....zerg gets broodlord infestor corruptor terran gets bio ghost or viking and protoss gets col/storm/mother ship... it gets pretty lame when I can already predict end game composition...this HotS is going to be a great addition with new units and strategies... I'm excited to see what players like MVP or MKP are going to do with new units ect... It's actually better to complain before the game is released while it's in its alpha and beta stages. If the game comes out and is complete shit (like what we saw here) than you'd be one of the ones saying "well nobody complained about anything". That being said it looks terrible now but so did WoL in its alpha stages. People mainly have a problem with Blizzard making the game more a-move friendly and that they're just adding units that mindlessly and directly solve the problems that races currently have which could be balanced yes, but is terrible game design. The more complaints there are to encourage micro and less deathball action, the better.
If it comes out and it's shit, you'll be told to wait until it's patched and players figure the game out better. Then, if that happens and the game is still mostly shit (like WoL currently), you'll be told to wait for LotV. There's no limit to Blizzard apologism. Hopefully, though, the way Diablo 3 turned out, and the total joke of a WoW expansion they're releasing, will serve to clue in more and more fans that the old Blizzard is basically gone, and what's left is a fairly competent, but soulless company, endlessly regurgitating ideas from its past days of glory.
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There are a few things I don't like when I see the br..
I don't like the purify ability on the mothercore, it seems to nullify early rushes and I'd like to see some of those once and I while in tournaments. MVP vs Squirtle wouldn't be the same if the last game couldn't be a 2rax
I like the b-helion and the w-mine, but I think that terran is fine with Thors and could do without the warhound.. I relly hope they stick with the Thor and change the model or something instead.
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EPT
