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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On August 14 2012 22:15 wcr.4fun wrote: So you can't remove the oracle spell by any other means than destroying the building? Well then the tempest atleast has one use I can think of x) That's correct. | ||
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baldgye
United Kingdom1103 Posts
On August 14 2012 22:18 Tao367 wrote: I hope this is not the case, with the information we have at the moment, I feel protoss will be completely reactionary to what the terran does, if hegoes mech, we'll need lots of void rays, and if he goes bio, we do the current meta game. Not a fan of this when Protoss will be able to dictate the play. lmao what? Have you been playing WoL at all? | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On August 14 2012 22:08 Aenur wrote: Agree. SC2 wouldn't be as big as we see it today, if there wasn't a game called SC Broodwar before (in fakt I think, it wouldn't have reached Esport status) . HotS could be Blizzard's very last chance to rescue their damaged reputation. After the decline of Warcraft series, the horrible launch and gamedesign of D3 (how many are still playing?) and SC2, which barely reached a minimum of the expectations (but still big issues with Battlenet 2.0) - how many more failures are they willing to afford? I don't think they even realize in which parlous position they already are. Sorry for my horrible English. People are still playing and watching SC2 not because they enjoy it, but because they've been tricked into thinking it's good because BW was good? Lol people can think for themselves and decide whether they enjoy it or not. SC2's hardcore following 2 years after release is objective evidence that a sizeable amount of people enjoy it. I hope people realize that it's unintelligent to draw sweeping conclusions about balance and game design based on one game you watched which had sub-optimal builds and compositions. Just be patient with your complaining and wait until you've tested the game. Think back to when you claimed that HTs would become obsolete if they took out khaydarin amulet. You're capable of making smarter assessments if you just take a little more time to think and look back over what you wrote before hitting the post button | ||
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johnny123
521 Posts
For instance, after orcale scouting/harass, The protoss could see that mech the terran is going for. Instead of trying to make Tempest work, he could have gone mass immortal/chargelot/couple archons/colosus/mothership and stasis all the vikings with the new mothership ability. I see mech getting Rolled against that army from protoss. Its way to early to tell that x race is to strong b race sucks just based on a single game. All i look for is what shows promise. I like the dynamic the tempests create, i like that warhounds dont require that much micro. I like that i dont feel im playing against the clock against a protoss anymore. In my view both tempest and carrier should stay in the game, none should be removed. The great thing about this is that bio still looks viable as well in tvp. So you would definately see the Bio TvP players, and the Mech only TvP players. my only suggestions are to look at the Widow Mine= it seems the role it plays will be very similar to making turrets. I was hoping that this mine would have alot more use in the core game . It seems better to just build actual units instead. | ||
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bLzPostman
New Zealand82 Posts
People are still playing and watching SC2 not because they enjoy it, but because they've been tricked into thinking it's good because BW was good? Lol people can think for themselves and decide whether they enjoy it or not. SC2's hardcore following 2 years after release is objective evidence that a sizeable amount of people enjoy it. I hope people realize that it's unintelligent to draw sweeping conclusions about balance and game design based on one game you watched which had sub-optimal builds and compositions. Just be patient with your complaining and wait until you've tested the game. Think back to when you claimed that HTs would become obsolete if they took out khaydarin amulet. You're capable of making smarter assessments if you just take a little more time to think and look back over what you wrote before hitting the post button This is the truth right here. How different was WoL when it first came out to what were playing now. You may say not a lot but its those small changes we've seen in timings that allows pros to get there insane builds from. | ||
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Zane
Romania3916 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12025 Posts
On August 14 2012 22:34 Zane wrote: CCs displaying how many workers you have mining still annoys me. What's next? I'll get a flashy warning and a voice will tell me when I need to make a depot or units? Why does that actually matter? It's really easy to count your workers and people can do it instinctively anyway. It's to help lower level players since they're too slow to count but makes no difference to anyone else. Honestly, when do you ever click on your command center and stare at the middle bar for more than a second? | ||
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minilance
Canada500 Posts
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WarEagle
United States130 Posts
On August 14 2012 22:37 Qikz wrote: Why does that actually matter? It's really easy to count your workers and people can do it instinctively anyway. It's to help lower level players since they're too slow to count but makes no difference to anyone else. Honestly, when do you ever click on your command center and stare at the middle bar for more than a second? I thought this ability was for observers only...players wouldn't be able to see the worker count. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12025 Posts
On August 14 2012 22:38 WarEagle wrote: I thought this ability was for observers only...players wouldn't be able to see the worker count. Fair enough, either way it doesn't really change anything for high level players. | ||
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Zane
Romania3916 Posts
On August 14 2012 22:37 Qikz wrote: Why does that actually matter? It's really easy to count your workers and people can do it instinctively anyway. It's to help lower level players since they're too slow to count but makes no difference to anyone else. Honestly, when do you ever click on your command center and stare at the middle bar for more than a second? Well you're right, it won't make a difference. I just hope Blizzard doesn't plan to simplify the game even more. On August 14 2012 22:38 WarEagle wrote: I thought this ability was for observers only...players wouldn't be able to see the worker count. This makes sense. | ||
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Bjoernzor
Sweden159 Posts
On August 14 2012 21:33 bokeevboke wrote: Sorry but SC2 is nowhere near being a great game (its slighly above average in modern game industry). AOE2, BW and WC3 are prime examples of great games, these have been loved and played for a long time, heck I still love BW and can play it for countless hours. But non of my friends nor me play SC2 now, cause its utterly boring and frustrating. Maybe its me, but there was a thread in TL which showed that more than half of TLers stopped playing sc2 long ago. How in the hell sc2 WoL is a great game? Because "great" isn't an objective criteria? T_T I never understood why that is so hard for people to realise. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
In any case, about the state of HotS right now as shown in the battle report: it's hard to make judgments about design of units outside the context of a clear lack of balance and the fact that these weren't competitive players. As an example, how can you tell whether the tempest has any potential when the terran refuses to deal with the observer in his base? Or how can you make a comment about the design of an ability like the mothership core's purifier when it has a ludicrous 13 range & 60 damage? For what it's worth, I think that the battle hellion is a good design. It requires plenty of skill in deciding what form to use hellions in and it gives the unit some much needed utility against mass zealot plays. I think a unit like this would fit perfectly well into a mech play style, especially with mine support. Unlike the warhound. I also think mass recall early on is good design. If you compare warpgate and recall then you'll see that both are clearly very strong abilities to get so early on, but recall feels like it's the only one that belongs there. After all, if you're not on at least three bases, then what good justification is there to have warpgate available? You can't use it for any kind of useful harass or defense, it's just something that lets you all-in. Recall on the other hand allows you to put on pressure in a non all-in fashion and therefore could really improve protoss early game. The obvious issue is that it's too powerful though. It reminds me of the scroll of town portal in Warcraft 3. In that game they had to add a delay timer to the scroll, so that whenever you used it there were a few seconds during which your opponent could pick off units for free and in a sense punish you for your bad positioning. I think that would be sufficient for mass recall as well: add a three second animation during which the units are still vulnerable. All together I'm cautiously optimistic, even though I did have the worrisome thought that since WoL is closer to Brood War, having an expansion gives Blizzard another chance to make a lot of changes and make the game even further removed from the Brood War fundamentals. And we'll never see really fundamental changes to income distribution or the pathfinding, so what we'll see is what we'll get, it will be up to the new units to improve the gameplay. I just hope Blizzard listens to the community and gets rid of awful designs like the warhound and the oracle's entomb ability. (or the roach or colossus :/ ) | ||
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NightOfTheDead
Lithuania1711 Posts
On August 14 2012 22:25 Doodsmack wrote: I hope people realize that it's unintelligent to draw sweeping conclusions about balance and game design based on one game you watched which had sub-optimal builds and compositions. Just be patient with your complaining and wait until you've tested the game. Think back to when you claimed that HTs would become obsolete if they took out khaydarin amulet. You're capable of making smarter assessments if you just take a little more time to think and look back over what you wrote before hitting the post button Thing is when WoL came out, nobody knew how it will turn out, what strategies are going to be there, etc., because it had begun from scratch. Now difference here being, they add upon existing infrastructure and units to tweak strategies, and devs themselves for sure play sc2 much much better and understand it so much more. Question is: why in hell would they put mechanical marauder, when there is one already? A lot of choices made for Hots are seen as really skill discouraging by introducing units that have defined role, and are straightforward. Not all units are bad, but some of a bunch really are. So, many are not happy, because they expect that awareness level of devs should be much much higher. Besides, there are units like Void Ray or reaper, that needs some help to bring them effectively into strategies. But instead, they are being pushed out, for example, vs zerg Toss will surely go oracle first and not void ray. There will be beta, but tendencies are disturbing. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
Oracle looks interesting but I don't know how useful it is and the Tempest was kind of neat and adds a new form of micro (albeit not necessarily all that taxing - just a very different kind of stutter step), but Terran mech just looked horrible to play. We don't need to negate position by buffing A-move-into-siege; that's not what mech is about at all, and that's looking very much like what we'll get even in TvT now. Of course, it's alpha and the guys aren't exactly pros and they clearly weren't playing seriously, but still. . .not feeling positive about this right now. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On August 14 2012 22:56 NightOfTheDead wrote: Thing is when WoL came out, nobody knew how it will turn out, what strategies are going to be there, etc., because it had begun from scratch. Now difference here being, they add upon existing infrastructure and units to tweak strategies, and devs themselves for sure play sc2 much much better and understand it so much more. Question is: why in hell would they put mechanical marauder, when there is one already? A lot of choices made for Hots are seen as really skill discouraging by introducing units that have defined role, and are straightforward. Not all units are bad, but some of a bunch really are. So, many are not happy, because they expect that awareness level of devs should be much much higher. Wait until you've tested the game before complaining about anything . It's the intelligent thing to do. | ||
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sharky246
1197 Posts
On August 14 2012 22:25 Doodsmack wrote: People are still playing and watching SC2 not because they enjoy it, but because they've been tricked into thinking it's good because BW was good? Lol people can think for themselves and decide whether they enjoy it or not. SC2's hardcore following 2 years after release is objective evidence that a sizeable amount of people enjoy it. I hope people realize that it's unintelligent to draw sweeping conclusions about balance and game design based on one game you watched which had sub-optimal builds and compositions. Just be patient with your complaining and wait until you've tested the game. Think back to when you claimed that HTs would become obsolete if they took out khaydarin amulet. You're capable of making smarter assessments if you just take a little more time to think and look back over what you wrote before hitting the post button Well, it's not impossible, although it is very very doubtful. I mean, lots of people buy the iphone, despite the fact that there are other products out there that are better and cheaper. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:01 Doodsmack wrote: Wait until you've tested the game before complaining about anything . It's the intelligent thing to do. Can we say positive things before we play it? Because honestly, what is the point of releasing these videos if not to be discussed? Obviously people are only able to give preliminary analyses, but that doesn't mean analysis in general is "unintelligent". | ||
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nixi
Sweden39 Posts
Entomb does feel very uninspired and boring to watch. No room for creative use at all. I hope they remove that ability and replace it with something better. Aleast preordain serves the purpose of giving vision to tempests and cloaking field can be really helpful defending expansions, cloaking buildings and probes aswell as helping in early pushes. The warhound doesnt look good as many others have stated but hopefully Blizzard is working on replacing that model if they decide to keep the unit. The tempest is a real beauty though and I like it. It can probably be devastating in the right hands when not overkilling. Mothershipcore is also a nice addition since it´ll help defend a fast expansion in pvp as an example. The purify is does cost energy and doesnt last very long so you are able to pull back your army once it is activated. Range 13 is 1 less range than siegetanks am I right? I´m looking forward to HotS. Overall it looks good and if they work on above stated things it´s gonna be splendid. | ||
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maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On August 14 2012 22:08 Aenur wrote: Agree. SC2 wouldn't be as big as we see it today, if there wasn't a game called SC Broodwar before (in fakt I think, it wouldn't have reached Esport status) . HotS could be Blizzard's very last chance to rescue their damaged reputation. After the decline of Warcraft series, the horrible launch and gamedesign of D3 (how many are still playing?) and SC2, which barely reached a minimum of the expectations (but still big issues with Battlenet 2.0) - how many more failures are they willing to afford? I don't think they even realize in which parlous position they already are. Sorry for my horrible English. How the hell are SC2 and D3 failures? The latter sold more copies in the first few days than any game to date. That's not a failure, that's a resounding success. Yes, the WC series in decline, meaning that still about eight to ten million people play it. No other MMO comes close (no, not even GW2 will). | ||
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