On August 14 2012 20:49 bokeevboke wrote: atleast they could redesign those rocks (still look like a bunch of horseshit).
On August 14 2012 20:10 Wildmoon wrote: I recommend people to watch WoL battle report so people could get an idea of what battle report is.:D
well, WOL didn't turned out to be great tbh.
Just the best RTS game ever for many, many people.
Is it a sarcasm? I don't get it.
SC2 is a great game. There are MUs that I prefer SC2's over BW's such as TvZ,TvT,ZvZ.
Sorry but SC2 is nowhere near being a great game (its slighly above average in modern game industry). AOE2, BW and WC3 are prime examples of great games, these have been loved and played for a long time, heck I still love BW and can play it for countless hours. But non of my friends nor me play SC2 now, cause its utterly boring and frustrating. Maybe its me, but there was a thread in TL which showed that more than half of TLers stopped playing sc2 long ago. How in the hell sc2 WoL is a great game?
What is actually stale about the battle hellion? All it does is gives Terran the option to actually use the hellion as a meat shield for your tanks.
Have you ever played mech in SC2 against Protoss? I do every game and if you have your hellions out in front of your tanks, your hellions all die to your tanks splash damage. It's stupid, it really is.
On August 14 2012 19:58 baldgye wrote: not sure why people are giving HoTS so much hate, you can bearly guage the quality of the game from these pretty poor battle reports... who builds a robo to then only build one obs when the terran is constantally dropping widdow mines?
its rather easy to judge how creative a new unit is and what effects its concept will have on the game.
slow mech marauders and super guardians dont exactly seem creative or fun. not even talking about the problem of more "1a" units.
its an alpha of a game... and if you break up each unit it dsnt sound too interesting, but mix them all together and who knows... but this BR is like watching some bronze PvT and calling out terran bio as a dull a-click race
We have the whole beta waiting for us to whine. :D
pretty much lol... tbh i think that battle report was a pointless video, it didn't really show anything new at all.. i really wanted to see how the new terran mech worked vs protoss robo units... :/
Blizzard is trying to force down our throats that Tempest are cool units. The truth is that the Carrier is a much better concept.
EDIT: The problem I see is that Protoss is gonna get shafted, because the Viking counters Robo and HOTs Stargate pretty easily. At least with goliaths Protoss could protect their Carriers with High ground advantage and by blocking with a ground force. Not to mention storm is more effective on slow ground units.
It is a cool unit, that could see some use, but only as a support unit to the established protoss army. For P here is what I can take away from that game;
-mothership expand looks cool as fuck and if viable would be awesome -temp makes static tank lines a thing of the past -and you need to be making a bunch of obs and have them all over the map at all times becasue of those stupid mines..
I don't think Vikings do that good a job either at combating the new protoss army either, becasue if you use the temp as it should be used and have it fuccking miles away from ur death ball.. the vikings cannot attack your tempest without mostly being destoryed... and if they attack your coli you can defend as u did in WoL but with added support from ur tempsts
On August 14 2012 19:58 baldgye wrote: not sure why people are giving HoTS so much hate, you can bearly guage the quality of the game from these pretty poor battle reports... who builds a robo to then only build one obs when the terran is constantally dropping widdow mines?
its rather easy to judge how creative a new unit is and what effects its concept will have on the game.
slow mech marauders and super guardians dont exactly seem creative or fun. not even talking about the problem of more "1a" units.
its an alpha of a game... and if you break up each unit it dsnt sound too interesting, but mix them all together and who knows... but this BR is like watching some bronze PvT and calling out terran bio as a dull a-click race
they dont add unique concepts or are fun to use. they dont create create cool situations.
thats the problem when the basic design is flawed/boring. doesnt matter if its pre alpha or release day, no matter how much you fiddle around with the numbers its still a bad concept.
True, but if they make it so that every PvT/TvP isn't just bio vs protoss it would make the game better, more varied and help create new and cool situations.... isnt the whole point of that unit to make mech more viable vs P? (something that was meaningless in the game showed)
Why do people think tempests will ever be able to abuse their range properly? If you keep the miles behind your actual army, they're very vulnerable. The terran will most likely have missle turrets so he can spot any observer that's hovering above his army. This terran in the BR was just bad and didn't even realize an observer was above his army??
The only way for tempests to abuse their range would be from a far away distance protected by the rest of the protoss' army and giving vision of your army by using the oracle's spell.
And even it's usability depends on wether you can remove the 'spotter' spell or not.
in BW tvz you can make everything you make in sc2 tvz, and much much more, also there is so many micro both from vessel, defiler, mines that is incomparable to anything sc2 can have...
You heard it right I prefer SC2's TvZ.[/QUOTE]
sry i can't believe this, i think that in reality you prefer sc2 because is more optimized for windows 7 and all the limitations are removed
if BW were made today with today graphic and no limitation(12 cap, automine mbs ecc), no one would play SC2 instead of BW
SC2BW don't count is out of proportion and full of bugs
On August 14 2012 21:47 OrchidThief wrote: I really hope the mothership core will break the one base default style of PvP. Though it'll probably end up being LAZORZZZ instead.
I think it definatally could, though the only problem is that it would still lead to war of the worlds nonsense that is mid/late game pvp
On August 14 2012 21:46 wcr.4fun wrote: Why do people think tempests will ever be able to abuse their range properly? If you keep the miles behind your actual army, they're very vulnerable. The terran will most likely have missle turrets so he can spot any observer that's hovering above his army. This terran in the BR was just bad and didn't even realize an observer was above his army??
The only way for tempests to abuse their range would be from a far away distance protected by the rest of the protoss' army and giving vision of your army by using the oracle's spell.
And even it's usability depends on wether you can remove the 'spotter' spell or not.
Just use the oracle spell on the orbital command or the planetary, or some other building terran isn't willing to blow up to stop the spotter spell.
On August 14 2012 21:47 OrchidThief wrote: I really hope the mothership core will break the one base default style of PvP. Though it'll probably end up being LAZORZZZ instead.
I think it definatally could, though the only problem is that it would still lead to war of the worlds nonsense that is mid/late game pvp
Yeah, and I don't see any of the other new Protoss tech changing that either. Oracle might do something with the cloaking field, but eh, people have robo bays already so probably not.
in BW tvz you can make everything you make in sc2 tvz, and much much more, also there is so many micro both from vessel, defiler, mines that is incomparable to anything sc2 can have...
You heard it right I prefer SC2's TvZ.
sry i can't believe this, i think that in reality you prefer sc2 because is more optimized for windows 7 and all the limitations are removed
if BW were made today with today graphic and no limitation(12 cap, automine mbs ecc), no one would play SC2 instead of BW[/QUOTE]
How different would BW be though without those limitations? Half the reason the game evolved in that way was because of 12 cap hotkeys. Why would you hotkey 12 marines compared to 12 wraiths?
Don't underestimate how much that 12 cap has influenced the mechanics and balance of BW. It would be vastly different game just based on that change alone.
I get the point though. If the variety of units and abilities from BW still existed within the context of mechanics which draw in new players the game would probably be far more varied. That said those few mechanical changes have such an enormous impact upon all those units and abilities that it would never be the same game. Just the same units, a lot of which would be lucky to see the light of day.
I didn't watch BW so I can't and won't compare. Just noting: there are a number of things that worked in BW that won't work here based solely on the changes to mechanics.
After testing the hots custom map nothing surprised me at all. Battlehellion-warhound composition imo is easier to manage than bio force, it doesn’t require intensive micro you don't have to bother about hitting a perfect emp,splitting or stutter stepping, only remember to put the battle hellions at front to melt zealots, and then warhounds that are pretty mobile with 2.81 speed and have bonus dmg vs. most of toss ground force (stalkers, sentry, immortal colossus), clean the rest of army with A-move. Way even bother about tank. Widow mines got no offensive usage but are pretty decent at securing the retreat path. Oracle needs some tweaks.
On August 14 2012 19:58 baldgye wrote: not sure why people are giving HoTS so much hate, you can bearly guage the quality of the game from these pretty poor battle reports... who builds a robo to then only build one obs when the terran is constantally dropping widdow mines?
its rather easy to judge how creative a new unit is and what effects its concept will have on the game.
slow mech marauders and super guardians dont exactly seem creative or fun. not even talking about the problem of more "1a" units.
its an alpha of a game... and if you break up each unit it dsnt sound too interesting, but mix them all together and who knows... but this BR is like watching some bronze PvT and calling out terran bio as a dull a-click race
We have the whole beta waiting for us to whine. :D
pretty much lol... tbh i think that battle report was a pointless video, it didn't really show anything new at all.. i really wanted to see how the new terran mech worked vs protoss robo units... :/
Blizzard is trying to force down our throats that Tempest are cool units. The truth is that the Carrier is a much better concept.
EDIT: The problem I see is that Protoss is gonna get shafted, because the Viking counters Robo and HOTs Stargate pretty easily. At least with goliaths Protoss could protect their Carriers with High ground advantage and by blocking with a ground force. Not to mention storm is more effective on slow ground units.
-mothership expand looks cool as fuck and if viable would be awesome -temp makes static tank lines a thing of the past -and you need to be making a bunch of obs and have them all over the map at all times becasue of those stupid mines..
What past it that? When did we have static tank lines in TvP? Or tanks in general beside 111?
SC2 is a shadow of what it could have been. Judging by HotS, Blizzard hasn't even learned anything from WoL.
Unless they make radical changes to HotS, SC2 is going to die.
Agree. SC2 wouldn't be as big as we see it today, if there wasn't a game called SC Broodwar before (in fakt I think, it wouldn't have reached Esport status) . HotS could be Blizzard's very last chance to rescue their damaged reputation. After the decline of Warcraft series, the horrible launch and gamedesign of D3 (how many are still playing?) and SC2, which barely reached a minimum of the expectations (but still big issues with Battlenet 2.0) - how many more failures are they willing to afford? I don't think they even realize in which parlous position they already are.
Am I the only one that was horrified (yeah I know, pre beta and all, but still, the function of the units) just how easily the protoss army melted to that mech? The warhound pretty much counters everything protoss has, and I worry that colossus will melt to both vikings and seiged tanks before it can do any good. Void rays seem like an option, but all the terran has to do is build more vikings as they trade pretty well with vikings. Also, tempest is complete shit. Extremely dull unit.
On August 14 2012 19:58 baldgye wrote: not sure why people are giving HoTS so much hate, you can bearly guage the quality of the game from these pretty poor battle reports... who builds a robo to then only build one obs when the terran is constantally dropping widdow mines?
its rather easy to judge how creative a new unit is and what effects its concept will have on the game.
slow mech marauders and super guardians dont exactly seem creative or fun. not even talking about the problem of more "1a" units.
its an alpha of a game... and if you break up each unit it dsnt sound too interesting, but mix them all together and who knows... but this BR is like watching some bronze PvT and calling out terran bio as a dull a-click race
We have the whole beta waiting for us to whine. :D
pretty much lol... tbh i think that battle report was a pointless video, it didn't really show anything new at all.. i really wanted to see how the new terran mech worked vs protoss robo units... :/
Blizzard is trying to force down our throats that Tempest are cool units. The truth is that the Carrier is a much better concept.
EDIT: The problem I see is that Protoss is gonna get shafted, because the Viking counters Robo and HOTs Stargate pretty easily. At least with goliaths Protoss could protect their Carriers with High ground advantage and by blocking with a ground force. Not to mention storm is more effective on slow ground units.
-mothership expand looks cool as fuck and if viable would be awesome -temp makes static tank lines a thing of the past -and you need to be making a bunch of obs and have them all over the map at all times becasue of those stupid mines..
What past it that? When did we have static tank lines in TvP? Or tanks in general beside 111?
we didn't, it was just a generalisation that when you see heavy tank play at less than tip top lvl you tend to see pretty static tank play, and the temp will force the terran to be more mobile... thats all
On August 14 2012 22:11 Tao367 wrote: Am I the only one that was horrified (yeah I know, pre beta and all, but still, the function of the units) just how easily the protoss army melted to that mech? The warhound pretty much counters everything protoss has, and I worry that colossus will melt to both vikings and seiged tanks before it can do any good. Void rays seem like an option, but all the terran has to do is build more vikings as they trade pretty well with vikings. Also, tempest is complete shit. Extremely dull unit.
no, there where other bronze players watching that not understanding why the protoss army melted to the terrans mech. And yes, the obvious counter to terran mech is mass void rays, and not immortals, templar, collosus etc etc
On August 14 2012 21:46 wcr.4fun wrote: Why do people think tempests will ever be able to abuse their range properly? If you keep the miles behind your actual army, they're very vulnerable. The terran will most likely have missle turrets so he can spot any observer that's hovering above his army. This terran in the BR was just bad and didn't even realize an observer was above his army??
The only way for tempests to abuse their range would be from a far away distance protected by the rest of the protoss' army and giving vision of your army by using the oracle's spell.
And even it's usability depends on wether you can remove the 'spotter' spell or not.
Just use the oracle spell on the orbital command or the planetary, or some other building terran isn't willing to blow up to stop the spotter spell.
So you can't remove the oracle spell by any other means than destroying the building? Well then the tempest atleast has one use I can think of x)
As a protoss player I found battle hellion+warhound+viking pretty much impossible to deal with in a straight up fight, with EMPs it will only be even worse. Oracle's entomb spell is powerful IF it goes unchecked but this is only for the lower levels only. As seen the the BR even scvs themelves can clean things up pretty quickly, and with missile turrets I don't see oracles being able to get in at all with their little HP. Cloak is mostly useless in PvT, because oracles have little HP and vikings can snipe them from long range, not to mention scans. As for the tempest, it does too little damage to be useful. Yes I know it has a long range and it's not supposed to go into big fights but to force reactions. But imagine if you invested 600 minerals, 600 gas and 12 supply into 2 tempests, that's 6 potential storms, 3 archons or 2 colossi that you are not having, which makes your main army that much weaker in a fight. With those powerful and mobile warhounds and battle hellions you're gonna want all the firepower you can get in your army. If T sees P opponent going tempests he can simply build 2 vikings to take it out, go to the protoss base and straight up kill him, because the protoss has to have a smaller actual army due to the tempest tech. Protoss need some real air power to combat mech, either giving tempests a AoE that varies with range, or buff the carrier and bring it back. Currently I don't really see another effective way to fight the PvT match up in HOTS if things stay this way, anyone else has any ideas?
On August 14 2012 22:11 Tao367 wrote: Am I the only one that was horrified (yeah I know, pre beta and all, but still, the function of the units) just how easily the protoss army melted to that mech? The warhound pretty much counters everything protoss has, and I worry that colossus will melt to both vikings and seiged tanks before it can do any good. Void rays seem like an option, but all the terran has to do is build more vikings as they trade pretty well with vikings. Also, tempest is complete shit. Extremely dull unit.
no, there where other bronze players watching that not understanding why the protoss army melted to the terrans mech. And yes, the obvious counter to terran mech is mass void rays, and not immortals, templar, collosus etc etc
I hope this is not the case, with the information we have at the moment, I feel protoss will be completely reactionary to what the terran does, if hegoes mech, we'll need lots of void rays, and if he goes bio, we do the current meta game. Not a fan of this when Protoss will be able to dictate the play.
EPT
