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Heart of the Swarm TvP Battle Report! - Page 58

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Fyrewolf
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1533 Posts
August 14 2012 17:22 GMT
#1141
I thought I only hated the art of the warhound, but now... Do we really need 5 units from the factory? It doesn't do anything in a mech composition that isn't already covered by marauders, especially since it's no longer aa, and if they wreck everything mechanical it just makes tanks have even less of a role, just widow mines would have been enough to make mech interesting. If they really wanted to have an anti-mechanical mechanic they should have just brought back lockdown. This BR is a mess.
"This is not Warcraft in space" "It's much more...... Sophisticated" "I KNOW IT'S NOT 3D!!!"
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
August 14 2012 17:22 GMT
#1142
On August 15 2012 02:20 vovalol wrote:
Did anyone actually notice that at the armory notes it says you can make the odin? look closely at 7 minute mark when he hovers over the armory icon and stop it to read it, actually that can explain why he didnt build a single thor while going mech

Because he wanted to show us Warhound and it "epicness & greatness" ?
ThirdDegree
Profile Joined February 2011
United States329 Posts
August 14 2012 17:33 GMT
#1143
The tempest seems really useless. The idea of it is pretty neat, but it seems far too costly and slow to play a significant role. I would either like to see splash return to it so it could have a chance against vikings, or make it smaller (less HP) and faster, and use it like a raiding/sniping unit, instead of the capital warship it is now.
I am terrible
Salient
Profile Joined August 2011
United States876 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-14 17:40:19
August 14 2012 17:39 GMT
#1144
The Mothership Core should make the game more interesting. Expansion builds in PvP should become much more viable. Also, Protoss won't feel forced to FFE in every PvZ. That might make maps with wide open naturals more balanced and thus viable in the map pool.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-14 17:46:03
August 14 2012 17:45 GMT
#1145
On August 15 2012 01:29 GinDo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 01:21 FuzzyJAM wrote:
On August 15 2012 01:18 Xacez wrote:
What role is the Tempest supposed to fulfil?

To break siege lines of the new mech TvP, I assume. Also for BL/Spines.

Basically it forces an engagement on Protoss's terms. I actually don't think it's too bad an idea depending on how everything else works out.


The question is why would you want to build siege tanks . Every tech tree has a direct counter to the Tank.

For the range advantage, and all-purpose DPS. Hellions can really only kill light units, and warhounds can kill mechanical ones. Having tanks as your core means your army is more adaptable and you won't be dead the second you run out hellions and zealot warp-ins swarm your warhounds.

I'm still more worried about the warhound, I can't see much reason to build them when hellion/tank seems like a much better combination. I think they need a utility spell instead of the "extra damage against mechanical" thing, to give them a more distinct role.
Schmoooopy
Profile Joined July 2011
United States448 Posts
August 14 2012 17:49 GMT
#1146
I really don't like the feel or look of Mech at all in this battle report. It just seems clunky.
stew_
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada239 Posts
August 14 2012 17:55 GMT
#1147
here's an idea, lets scrap hots and come up with a sc3

which will be bw with sc2 graphics...
자연속에 내가 있다! 운!지!
ZaaaaaM
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands1828 Posts
August 14 2012 17:55 GMT
#1148
On August 15 2012 00:13 kusto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2012 23:41 SmackDiablo wrote:
Can you people just shut up and stop complaining? Wait till the damn game comes out and a few patches to fix up whatever really needs to be fixed.


Great attitude you have here.

You don't really understand what annoys these people? They don't complain about balance, but about the design of the units and the resulting consequences for the fun of playing or watching the game.

For example, what is there to fix in the collossi? it's balanced and has it's place in the metagame, but it's just awfully designed and is one of the reasons deathballs are so strong in protoss matchups.
What is there to balance in PvP? Nothing, right? Everything is fine aside from the fact that the player with more collossi wins a 200/200 battle with +100 supply difference. It's not fun to play and not fun to watch these players mass up an amount of collossi and attack.

Same goes for the deisgn of roach and marauder. People hoped that pvt mech would look like in brood war, with extensive siege lines and terrorizing hellion squads at far away expos, drawing away protoss units. Instead they saw some clumped mech units move around. positioning didn't seem to mean much with the simple control and high dps of the war hound.

Also, i am disgusted by Day9 somehow. Rob Simpson works for blizzard, so fake-hyping stuff is his work, but the lack of any useful comments from Day9 is disappointing. But oh well he got a lot of views.

Well said, agree with you on all these points
no dude, the question
Cloak
Profile Joined October 2009
United States816 Posts
August 14 2012 18:02 GMT
#1149
If the Tempest kept its DPS, but had a really wide splash range, I can see it being useful without overpowering its sniping capabilities. Also is it me, or does David Kim from the BR think that Protoss just overextend and throw shit at their opponents? Like no positional play, just run behind enemy lines and get to a point of no return. After going back and watching HoTS TvZ and PvZ, those matchups are still interesting.
The more you know, the less you understand.
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-14 18:05:23
August 14 2012 18:05 GMT
#1150
--- Nuked ---
Gentso
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2218 Posts
August 14 2012 18:12 GMT
#1151
First of all, I can't believe anyone would bash on Day 9 for hyping HOTS here. This is obviously just a promotional video that Blizzard asked Day 9 to be a part of. I'm sure anywhere else Day 9 would give his honest opinion of what he thinks, and I bet he's already done that a million times.

Second of all, it's impossible to make any concrete judgement on balance, theory, styles, or anything of the like from one video. SC2 constantly evolved over 2 years. Unit comps, aggressive vs defensive styles, multi-task, unit roles, and all of that changed constantly in WOL. All you're seeing is two people's interpretations of new units and nothing more.

For example, what is there to fix in the collossi? it's balanced and has it's place in the metagame, but it's just awfully designed and is one of the reasons deathballs are so strong in protoss matchups.
What is there to balance in PvP? Nothing, right? Everything is fine aside from the fact that the player with more collossi wins a 200/200 battle with +100 supply difference. It's not fun to play and not fun to watch these players mass up an amount of collossi and attack.


I don't know why you still feel this way. Top level of Protoss play doesn't rely on massing a death ball anymore. That's currently Zerg's style versus Protoss. Even still, SC2 has definitely evolved into emphasizing timings and mutli-tasking for every race. It's been two years and only now is top level of play shaping up this way.

Same goes for the deisgn of roach and marauder. People hoped that pvt mech would look like in brood war, with extensive siege lines and terrorizing hellion squads at far away expos, drawing away protoss units. Instead they saw some clumped mech units move around. positioning didn't seem to mean much with the simple control and high dps of the war hound.


I hate this mentality of people wanting this game to act like Brood War. You will never be satisfied because this game isn't trying to be Brood War if you haven't noticed.
ddrddrddrddr
Profile Joined August 2010
1344 Posts
August 14 2012 18:22 GMT
#1152
On August 15 2012 03:12 Gentso wrote:
First of all, I can't believe anyone would bash on Day 9 for hyping HOTS here. This is obviously just a promotional video that Blizzard asked Day 9 to be a part of. I'm sure anywhere else Day 9 would give his honest opinion of what he thinks, and I bet he's already done that a million times.

Second of all, it's impossible to make any concrete judgement on balance, theory, styles, or anything of the like from one video. SC2 constantly evolved over 2 years. Unit comps, aggressive vs defensive styles, multi-task, unit roles, and all of that changed constantly in WOL. All you're seeing is two people's interpretations of new units and nothing more.

Show nested quote +
For example, what is there to fix in the collossi? it's balanced and has it's place in the metagame, but it's just awfully designed and is one of the reasons deathballs are so strong in protoss matchups.
What is there to balance in PvP? Nothing, right? Everything is fine aside from the fact that the player with more collossi wins a 200/200 battle with +100 supply difference. It's not fun to play and not fun to watch these players mass up an amount of collossi and attack.


I don't know why you still feel this way. Top level of Protoss play doesn't rely on massing a death ball anymore. That's currently Zerg's style versus Protoss. Even still, SC2 has definitely evolved into emphasizing timings and mutli-tasking for every race. It's been two years and only now is top level of play shaping up this way.

Show nested quote +
Same goes for the deisgn of roach and marauder. People hoped that pvt mech would look like in brood war, with extensive siege lines and terrorizing hellion squads at far away expos, drawing away protoss units. Instead they saw some clumped mech units move around. positioning didn't seem to mean much with the simple control and high dps of the war hound.


I hate this mentality of people wanting this game to act like Brood War. You will never be satisfied because this game isn't trying to be Brood War if you haven't noticed.

I look foward to day9 giving his real opinions one of these days.

For a constantly evolving game, there sure are a lot of pissed off customers.

This game is definitely not trying to be Broodwar.. it's trying to be C&C
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12023 Posts
August 14 2012 18:24 GMT
#1153
This game is definitely not trying to be Broodwar.. it's trying to be C&C



Honestly, just admit you have no idea what you're talking about.

C&C is all about massing a single unit and sending it at the enemy. SC2 is nothing like C&C.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Dubz
Profile Joined October 2010
United States242 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-14 18:41:53
August 14 2012 18:28 GMT
#1154
" mefjupl: if this game was balanced and we would find two players with almost same skills, in mirror match there would be a draw each game"
bellsNkeys
Profile Joined November 2011
United States52 Posts
August 14 2012 18:31 GMT
#1155
On August 15 2012 00:07 Toadvine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2012 23:57 bellsNkeys wrote:
On August 14 2012 23:41 SmackDiablo wrote:
Can you people just shut up and stop complaining? Wait till the damn game comes out and a few patches to fix up whatever really needs to be fixed. If your so unexcited about the game...Don't play it! Whether or not its balanced as soon as it is released I'm extremely excited to see what this game holds with new units and strategies. All you people on here complaining are lame this game is going to be a blast with the new units cause I'm sick and tired of being able to predict how a game is going to end before it even starts....zerg gets broodlord infestor corruptor terran gets bio ghost or viking and protoss gets col/storm/mother ship... it gets pretty lame when I can already predict end game composition...this HotS is going to be a great addition with new units and strategies... I'm excited to see what players like MVP or MKP are going to do with new units ect...


It's actually better to complain before the game is released while it's in its alpha and beta stages. If the game comes out and is complete shit (like what we saw here) than you'd be one of the ones saying "well nobody complained about anything". That being said it looks terrible now but so did WoL in its alpha stages.

People mainly have a problem with Blizzard making the game more a-move friendly and that they're just adding units that mindlessly and directly solve the problems that races currently have which could be balanced yes, but is terrible game design. The more complaints there are to encourage micro and less deathball action, the better.


If it comes out and it's shit, you'll be told to wait until it's patched and players figure the game out better. Then, if that happens and the game is still mostly shit (like WoL currently), you'll be told to wait for LotV. There's no limit to Blizzard apologism. Hopefully, though, the way Diablo 3 turned out, and the total joke of a WoW expansion they're releasing, will serve to clue in more and more fans that the old Blizzard is basically gone, and what's left is a fairly competent, but soulless company, endlessly regurgitating ideas from its past days of glory.


A patch is just a patch, A band aid basically. Blizzard won't completely change a unit's design or remove it completely after the game is released, but it will before. I don't understand why people think making valid complaints isn't a good thing and that everyone should just shut up and not say a word til the game is released. People made complaints about WoL during the game's alpha and beta stages and even though you may think it's still shit, you have to admit it is TONS better than it was before release and a lot of that had to do with people complaining about certain things.
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-14 18:34:55
August 14 2012 18:34 GMT
#1156
On August 15 2012 03:12 Gentso wrote:
First of all, I can't believe anyone would bash on Day 9 for hyping HOTS here. This is obviously just a promotional video that Blizzard asked Day 9 to be a part of. I'm sure anywhere else Day 9 would give his honest opinion of what he thinks, and I bet he's already done that a million times.

Second of all, it's impossible to make any concrete judgement on balance, theory, styles, or anything of the like from one video. SC2 constantly evolved over 2 years. Unit comps, aggressive vs defensive styles, multi-task, unit roles, and all of that changed constantly in WOL. All you're seeing is two people's interpretations of new units and nothing more.

Show nested quote +
For example, what is there to fix in the collossi? it's balanced and has it's place in the metagame, but it's just awfully designed and is one of the reasons deathballs are so strong in protoss matchups.
What is there to balance in PvP? Nothing, right? Everything is fine aside from the fact that the player with more collossi wins a 200/200 battle with +100 supply difference. It's not fun to play and not fun to watch these players mass up an amount of collossi and attack.


I don't know why you still feel this way. Top level of Protoss play doesn't rely on massing a death ball anymore. That's currently Zerg's style versus Protoss. Even still, SC2 has definitely evolved into emphasizing timings and mutli-tasking for every race. It's been two years and only now is top level of play shaping up this way.

Show nested quote +
Same goes for the deisgn of roach and marauder. People hoped that pvt mech would look like in brood war, with extensive siege lines and terrorizing hellion squads at far away expos, drawing away protoss units. Instead they saw some clumped mech units move around. positioning didn't seem to mean much with the simple control and high dps of the war hound.


I hate this mentality of people wanting this game to act like Brood War. You will never be satisfied because this game isn't trying to be Brood War if you haven't noticed.


What game have you been watching? I just went over like 20 pro zvp games and they were all the same deathball type of play. Some phoenix openings, but primarily immortals -> collussi, push before broodlords.
Cloak
Profile Joined October 2009
United States816 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-14 18:39:16
August 14 2012 18:37 GMT
#1157
On August 15 2012 03:05 monkybone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 03:02 Cloak wrote:
If the Tempest kept its DPS, but had a really wide splash range, I can see it being useful without overpowering its sniping capabilities. Also is it me, or does David Kim from the BR think that Protoss just overextend and throw shit at their opponents? Like no positional play, just run behind enemy lines and get to a point of no return. After going back and watching HoTS TvZ and PvZ, those matchups are still interesting.


I can't even imagine how that would look like in TvP. What a nightmare.


It wouldn't be so bad. Tempest just need something to be useful when it's 200 vs. 200. They're practically just a tinkle at that point for being 300/300. If air is supposed to "counter" mech, it needs to actually make them die at some point.
The more you know, the less you understand.
Gentso
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2218 Posts
August 14 2012 18:38 GMT
#1158
For a constantly evolving game, there sure are a lot of pissed off customers.


From what I've seen, it's because people can't think for themselves. A lot of people, especially BW pros, wanted the game to function almost exactly like BW. Instead of learning and adapting, most players and pros made excuses and blamed the game.

There are some stagnant match ups in WOL, but from the HOTS interviews it seems like the developers know about them and aim to fix that. From what I've gathered, Blizzard just wants to make mech viable in PvT. Right now bio is essentially the best way to play, but HOTS is there to give players options.

I admit the game they showed was a poor example, but I definitely see the potential.
Gentso
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2218 Posts
August 14 2012 18:41 GMT
#1159
On August 15 2012 03:37 Cloak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 03:05 monkybone wrote:
On August 15 2012 03:02 Cloak wrote:
If the Tempest kept its DPS, but had a really wide splash range, I can see it being useful without overpowering its sniping capabilities. Also is it me, or does David Kim from the BR think that Protoss just overextend and throw shit at their opponents? Like no positional play, just run behind enemy lines and get to a point of no return. After going back and watching HoTS TvZ and PvZ, those matchups are still interesting.


I can't even imagine how that would look like in TvP. What a nightmare.


It wouldn't be so bad. Tempest just need something to be useful when it's 200 vs. 200. They're practically just a tinkle at that point for being 300/300. If air is supposed to "counter" mech, it needs to actually make them die at some point.


I think the ability to un-siege and force mech positions to relocate is extremely powerful in itself.
ArcticRaven
Profile Joined August 2011
France1406 Posts
August 14 2012 18:42 GMT
#1160
On August 15 2012 03:12 Gentso wrote:
First of all, I can't believe anyone would bash on Day 9 for hyping HOTS here. This is obviously just a promotional video that Blizzard asked Day 9 to be a part of. I'm sure anywhere else Day 9 would give his honest opinion of what he thinks, and I bet he's already done that a million times.


I'm pretty sure honesty is a good thing to have around.
[Govie] Wierd shit, on a 6 game AP winning streak with KOTL in the trench. I searched gandalf quotes and spammed them all game long, trenchwarfare247, whateva it takes!
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