On August 09 2012 19:54 malaan wrote: I love these changes but I would have loved to have seen just one more - Creep receeding speed increased. It's so frustrating to have to wait 30-40 seconds to plant your CC after an overlord creeped it up, and even worse to clear out a batch of creep only to have a queen run over 30 seconds later and replant.
With increaseed speed creep receeding you should add next changes:
- Pylon shields removed - When starting building, it will burn in flame (like on low hp) untill SCV will finish it
Why not? Creep is a zerg mechanic. If you want faster creep receed, then nerf pylon and other building blocks too
Dude: -Kill blocking building immediately frees the space to build hatcheries/ whatever. -Kill creeping overlord -> wait till the next moon landing before building anything non zerg. I hope you honestly didn't think those ridiculous changes actually would be fair if the creep receded faster, if I were zerg I'd take less creep for no protoss shields and burning buildings anyday ez.
If anything I'd prefer creep did receed faster followed by stronger tumours but more energy expensive( higher cd too), mainly because I think that it's too easy for protoss and terran to remove zergs work on the map, but I'm also not a fan of creep covering the entire map because the terran doesn't want to play hyper aggro. Alternatively (As opposed to faster creep removal) I'd like it if creep death had a dependence on it's surrounding creep. ie less creep around -> creep removes faster.
-Kill blocking building immediately frees the space to build hatcheries/ whatever.
Pylon 2x more HP than overlord, and half of these HP are with 1 armor. Plus probe can place another pylon. For just another 100 minerals. Zerg need to use these ovies rather than spread them over map.
-Kill creeping overlord -> wait till the next moon landing before building anything non zerg.
Kill it before it reaches 3rd? Make stalker/marine 1 min earlier? Is it that hard?
Alternatively (As opposed to faster creep removal) I'd like it if creep death had a dependence on it's surrounding creep. ie less creep around -> creep removes faster.
This is a good compromiss change. Faster creep spread = faster creep receed. But with that, range of tumors should stay with 10.
On August 09 2012 05:26 Zeon0 wrote: sure, lets make Terran even better in ultralategame energy wars
Huh? Terran been pretty bad at energy war since ghost nerf. Unless you count mule, but then you have to count inject / chrono also.
You didn't see Gumiho vs. Soulkey did you?
Soulkey was practically giving Gumiho free EMP hits
It's still not as hard as people think, and Gumiho was going up to 15-20 ghosts. Even if you can't get free EMPs, you can still snipe every infestor or just snipe the overseers and then cloak and go to town. The terran army can straight up kill broodlord based armies or ultralisk based armies pretty easily if there aren't any infestors to deal with, so focus on negating the infestors.
People think that for some reason because snipe was nerfed vs. Broods and Ultras that ghosts are useless in the matchup (snipe was actually buffed vs. infestors), they aren't, they're just an anti-caster unit (and a really good one) rather than an army annihilator.
Agree, snipe nerf was needed but a little too harsh. 17+ ghosts pre-patch = gg from zerg, because all expensive units just instantly died without doing squat.
On August 09 2012 19:36 ShatterZer0 wrote: Bullshit, it's balanced in Korea already. Leave it the hell alone and let the game shape itself.
It was even more balanced before they buffed Queens.
Didn't stop them then did it?
And why ? Because now qeens can snipke scv that builds bunker on expo ? , or maby becuse queens can now stop hellions ? .Every game on ladder vs terran before queen buff as zerg was mass hellions defense , or hellions/maruder allins with scv.., it was not bored to you ?
Now terrans must play for real.. not make bunker rushes all the time , or semi allin hellions harras at drons.. , you got luck kill many drones you win , zerg def well , you lose...
70% of TvZ games didint even go to late game , before queen buff , but maby for you it was fun.
On August 09 2012 21:18 BraveProbe wrote: I wish they would find a way to balance ghost snipe so it'll actually be useful and used again in high level tvz.
All they really need to do is just reduce its damage to massive units. Ghosts really NEED to be able to snipe banes with one shot. They just arent worth the money to try and counter infestors as is right now, especially since you can only hit 1 or 2 at a time with an EMP.
Back to this topic though, I like the changes overall, I just dont like the idea of having to put a tech lab on the starport to make a raven. Im not necessarily saying that it needs to come out of a standard starport but I think that one mechanic is what holds most terran players back from using the Raven, not just its slow speed.
Like the 20% overall nerf for Creep and the Buff on the Raven...but I honestly don't think the Raven change will do much to increase the usage of Raven/Seeker-Hit and Runs cause High-lvl zergs are used to spread their (Air)-Forces well enough and Fungle will still hit instantly (not as if this is a bad thing). But who I am to judge about this things ^^? Also I honestly think the Creep shouldn't disappear faster after Tumor/Overlord Kill cause its just a fault to not check for blocks like this and the creep-blob of the Overlord doesn't last "that long" if you check for an ovi with 2-3 marines when you start building the new CC for that Position. The Point is that T build the CC in his base and can already check for the Overlord before it hovers over...so its not that big Deal to snipe the block in Time... omg I have to sleep, horrible grammar >.>
On August 09 2012 21:46 OneBaseKing wrote: holy fuck blizzard. it's been a helluva long time since u didn't fuck something up and did something properly. I'm gonna start laddering :D
Queens are still retarded, and tvz lategame is still shit, so not much has changed.
On August 09 2012 21:46 OneBaseKing wrote: holy fuck blizzard. it's been a helluva long time since u didn't fuck something up and did something properly. I'm gonna start laddering :D
Queens are still retarded, and tvz lategame is still shit, so not much has changed.
Kinda yes. The only thing I like about this patch is direction that they are going. Changes are way too minor to have a noticable effect on TvZ.
On August 09 2012 21:30 ArcadeR wrote: Like the 20% overall nerf for Creep and the Buff on the Raven...but I honestly don't think the Raven change will do much to increase the usage of Raven/Seeker-Hit and Runs cause High-lvl zergs are used to spread their (Air)-Forces well enough and Fungle will still hit instantly (not as if this is a bad thing). But who I am to judge about this things ^^? Also I honestly think the Creep shouldn't disappear faster after Tumor/Overlord Kill cause its just a fault to not check for blocks like this and the creep-blob of the Overlord doesn't last "that long" if you check for an ovi with 2-3 marines when you start building the new CC for that Position. The Point is that T build the CC in his base and can already check for the Overlord before it hovers over...so its not that big Deal to snipe the block in Time... omg I have to sleep, horrible grammar >.>
PDD is the more valuable ability against late game zerg IMO. It reduces corruptor damage, which allows vikings to do one way damage until the PPD runs out. That add in with detection, it could be used to zone out the zerg.
The speed increase is interesting and I want to see how it works with the auto turret. Although the turret does not scale with upgrades, it can still kill drones and probes. Plus, when well placed, they are tanky enough to tie up zerglings for a lot period of time. With this speed boost, it is more likely to get in and out quickly. This could allow terrans to pressure a zerg without eating up 10 supply like they are normally forced to do with drops. Plus the cost of losing a raven is less than a full medivac of marines.
On August 09 2012 21:30 ArcadeR wrote: Like the 20% overall nerf for Creep and the Buff on the Raven...but I honestly don't think the Raven change will do much to increase the usage of Raven/Seeker-Hit and Runs cause High-lvl zergs are used to spread their (Air)-Forces well enough and Fungle will still hit instantly (not as if this is a bad thing). But who I am to judge about this things ^^? Also I honestly think the Creep shouldn't disappear faster after Tumor/Overlord Kill cause its just a fault to not check for blocks like this and the creep-blob of the Overlord doesn't last "that long" if you check for an ovi with 2-3 marines when you start building the new CC for that Position. The Point is that T build the CC in his base and can already check for the Overlord before it hovers over...so its not that big Deal to snipe the block in Time... omg I have to sleep, horrible grammar >.>
PDD is the more valuable ability against late game zerg IMO. It reduces corruptor damage, which allows vikings to do one way damage until the PPD runs out. That add in with detection, it could be used to zone out the zerg.
The speed increase is interesting and I want to see how it works with the auto turret. Although the turret does not scale with upgrades, it can still kill drones and probes. Plus, when well placed, they are tanky enough to tie up zerglings for a lot period of time. With this speed boost, it is more likely to get in and out quickly. This could allow terrans to pressure a zerg without eating up 10 supply like they are normally forced to do with drops. Plus the cost of losing a raven is less than a full medivac of marines.
PDD is less and less valuable because zergs use more and more Infested terrans against viking to protect Broodlords sadly.
the new raven speed is nice if you dont mess up the micro. i flew my first raven into 5 queens -_-.
didnt see any huge changes with the raven, yes they are slightly faster but still so fragil and hard to micro as before. needs a ton of micro / has a high skill cap -> i suck with it.
its not a change that will be good for any terran player, just will make the game more balanced in the very late game at a high level. compared with 3->5 range for queens (which will improve even the worst player), this change does nothing for diamond terrans vs zerg.
i could not test the creep spreat obv. just saying that its not a buff for most terrans.
On August 09 2012 22:27 sapht wrote: I want to see this, following raven usage: 2base tank/marine doomdrops behind main or natural using 10 autoturrets to wall off area behind minerals.
Auto Turrets still cost 50 energy each, so you'll be spending a lot of gas on Ravens if you want to wall in completely with auto-turrets. Much cheaper to just bring a bunch of SCVs to wall in with depots.
So, with this speed the raven is allowed to escape from is own HSM explosion or not? Btw, the later ultra-switch still very hard to defend even if the raven got 5 speed.
On August 09 2012 22:27 sapht wrote: I want to see this, following raven usage: 2base tank/marine doomdrops behind main or natural using 10 autoturrets to wall off area behind minerals.
Auto Turrets still cost 50 energy each, so you'll be spending a lot of gas on Ravens if you want to wall in completely with auto-turrets. Much cheaper to just bring a bunch of SCVs to wall in with depots.
Can't wall on creep! But yeah this probably doesn't work, but it'd be so sick to see autoturrets used to wall vs ling baneling. They're pretty beefy.
EPT
