Call To Action: Balance Testing TvZ. - Page 21

On August 09 2012 09:46 TheDwf wrote:

You're aware that scans are not only needed for detection, but also for vision so that Terran armies don't get instantly surrounded and caught unsieged by 6,11 movespeed Zerglings?

On August 09 2012 09:38 larse wrote:
OK. Most people that advocate a drastic buff to raven's seeker missile forget the point that seeker missile is a very very different spell from other AOE damage spells.

The fundamental difference is that seeker missile is an instant damage while the other two main AOE damage spells--fungal growth and storm--do their damage over 4 seconds. Because they are doing damage over 4 seconds, their "DPS" is much much lower than instant damage spell such as seeker missile and EMP. For example, fungal growth's damage is 30 for 4 seconds, so its DPS is 7.5 for each unit. Storm's damage is 80 for 4 seconds, so its DPS is 20 for each unit. But because seeker missile does an instant 100 damage, its DPS is 100 for the central units, 75 for more closed units, and 50 for less closed units. So its DPS is much much higher than storm and fungal. This is why when Blizzard designs it, there are so many requirements for this spell--research, 125 energy cost, and a very slow projectile.

If the seeker missile's energy cost is reduce to 100, or its research is removed, it will be very very OP.

The reasonable buffs for seeker missile should be focused on the costs of getting seeker missile, but not some direct buffs. Therefore, some reasonable buffs for seeker missile should be:

1. Raven energy research cost reduced to 100/100, down from 150/150. Research time reduced to 80, down from 110. (Infestor's energy research time is 80)
2. Durable Materials reserach removed. The duration of Auto-Turrets and Point Defense Drones is now 240 seconds (up from 180 seconds), and the duration of the Seeker Missile is now 20 Seconds (up from 15 seconds).

On August 09 2012 09:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
This is a really nice and measured patch I think, I'm impressed. I would consider having creep recede faster instead of spread slower, but I'm sure they considered both options.

I like this a lot eitherway.

On August 09 2012 09:52 ZeromuS wrote:


Storm needs research as well. The unit costs more because it does more than cast spells (it also is mobile detection)

As for easier to dodge and shorter range THAT is what is making it weaker. The energy and research are a result of early timings with rushing to HSM I am sure.

On August 09 2012 09:56 Shiori wrote:

I don't disagree, but what I'm saying is that the Raven has horrible disadvantages compared to HTs/Ghosts/Infestors, even if you factor in its detection. Just as a tech choice it's significantly more prohibitive given the cost of a tech labbed Starport (both in the sense that this cuts into Medivac/Viking production and in the sense that Starports cost more than Barracks/Gateway). Everything about the Raven, aside from flying (not really relevant) detection (again, not actually that important by the time it comes out) and the strength of HSM's damage is weaker than the more standard casters. I don't think all these disadvantages are warranted by HSM being a strong spell when it hits. It's slapped with so many disadvantages already that I don't see why a unit which costs so much shouldn't be allowed to regularly do huge amounts of damage.

On August 09 2012 09:42 SugoZerg wrote:
They should try to reduce the area of scans, maybe terran will make some raven for detection.
With one scan, you can get ride of 2screens of creep tumors, it's too effective and there's no use for a raven at all... Even in TvP or TvT, terran rely on scans not on raven when it comes to detection.
Nerf tumors, Nerf scan and buff ravens so it will become usefull.

On August 09 2012 08:56 Whitewing wrote:


Terran players have gotten much better at defeating and defending muta/ling/bling play, and again, that's not an end-game composition, it's a mid-game strategy. If you're stuck in ling/bling/muta while terran is on a late game economy/tech level with good upgrades, you just lose. Infestors are straight up superior against terran in the mid-game for the most part, and are essential late game, because without them in your composition, you just straight up lose to terran end-game.

Ghosts are designed to fit into the race. They are a purely support unit designed to negate essential units from other races so that the rest of the superior terran force can crush an enemy missing a required unit. The units fill different roles: Infestors are a lockdown/damage dealing/harass unit, high templar are a damage dealing/ weak caster negator, and ghosts are an excellent caster negater/harass unit.

On August 09 2012 10:05 ZeromuS wrote:


Agreed, however having it helps against creep, having it helps against a lot of stuff.

Honestly, its energy isn't used on a lot so 125 isn't horrible.