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I could be wrong, but isn't South Korean High Schools highly competitive for entry into university?
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On August 06 2012 19:32 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 08:44 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 08:11 Bippzy wrote:
I think the article has much to go in storyline. Saying marineking won in 8 minutes should not be "he won in just 8 minutes" it should be more like "he executed a well disguised rush and caught his opponent off guard.
Also, go seemed like an indicative sign of addiction, but its actually BFD in the gamig community. Plus " he plays not because he wants to, but has to." seems a little too over the top. Is marinekings past weighing on him at wcg? Probably not as much as this article makes it out to be:
This article is disliked in my mind because it makes a "philosophical" question about gaming and then discusses it using MKP and statistics and government actions..it all paints the wrong picture What are you talking about? Rush? People who don't play video games don't know what a rush is. Nor do they understand how you disguise something. I thought the article was extremely well-written - it brought both sides of the argument, the good and bad of gaming. I think people here focus way too much on the addiction side, which is actually, sadly, an issue (because some people are addicted to gaming - this is not necessarily good). Yes there are other non-gaming examples of bad addictions (eg. athletics) but that's not the point of this article. The article was not well-written. There are countless problems with it, and not simply because it "disses" esports. 1: It demonstrates poor knowledge of its subject content. The description of Terran as human like aliens instead of humans (for goodness sake, even the Wikipedia entry for SC races points out that the Terrans are humans exiled for earth. The description of Protoss probes as termites (when the bug-reference confuses Protoss for Zerg; again, see basic wikipedia entry where even the most uninformed can understand that Zerg is the insectoid race, not Protoss). We don't expect these people to give fully informed LR of each game, but at least understand the basic structure of it... 2: Problems with narrative construction. There's no clear timeline or context. The author jumps from 15 year old MKP to contemporary MKP within the same paragraph. I can see what the author is trying to do, going with the redemption story, but too much of the article frames MKP as traversing both ends of the spectrum, but that is a wholly incorrect narrative. MKP really represents only the positive side of the story, not the negative, and the author therefore has to manipulate and twist his narrative to fit his ends, which in this case, means that he distorts the narrative to portray MKP as an addict, which leads to issue #3. Furthermore, the positive aspects of his subject are poorly represented. The article very quickly throws in the mention of fans twice very briefly (once with the fan offering a gift, the other MKP's tweet). No mention is made of the culture which inspired MKP to pursue pro-gaming, or the fanbase which is part of the addendum. This is an important fact to recognize because the distinction between addiction and legitimacy is often drawn in the lens of "anti-social" or social tendencies, and clearly, the interactive nature of esports as a cultural occurrence is reflective of the positive, and not the negative. 3: The author excessively and repeatedly goes overboard with his insertion of personal interpretation, instead of objective fact. Of course, this is worsened by a clear bias one side,negatively portraying esports. Whether intentional or not, as it may simply be a social attitude subconsciously engrained, it still is poor journalistic quality. This one is the most blatant problem with the article, and the examples are numerous. A. the narrative distortion of #2 is clearly the author's intent when his general view is stated near the beginning of the article with these lines: "It's a place that's home to the world's finest "e-sports athletes," as they're called here without irony. It's also a hub for gaming addiction -- a place where deaths are attributed to games and the government funds treatment centers. MarineKing knows those facts all too well. He's been caught in a lifelong struggle between the dark and the light sides of gaming." In other words, insinuating that MKP has been struggling with gaming addiction (struggling with the dark side,) when really, the story is him falsely being considered a gaming addict. While the definition of addiction is its own debate, we will use the author's own words to clear the issue, as he ends with the expert concluding that pro-gamers (ie MKP) are not addicts. B. the dismissive attitude of games as fiction: "He drifted further into the game and, as his parents came to see it, out of the physical world. It was all fiction, of course, but it seemed real to him. And soon MarineKing started to like this fantasy world better than the real one. One night, in his journal, he scribbled a secret: "I want to grow up to be a pro gamer."" Considering pro-gaming an "escape" into fantasy over reality is a stereotypical view of gaming, but a false interpretation of pro-gaming; in fact, pro-gaming would be the merging of the two, connecting that "fiction" to the real world. C. Constant descriptions of MKP in terms of an addict. "Then he quickly moved on to another round of "StarCraft" -- not because of the competition, really.
He just wanted -- or needed -- to keep playing." Again, huge authorial liberties in assuming that MKP didn't play Starcraft at WCG because of the competition (...really? does this guy even know anyone who plays SC?), and the not too subtle addendum of "need" instead of "want" as the drive behind his play. D. The description of Darkforce. Self-explanatory. E. The description of MKP's go-spamming, clear framing in terms of the jittery/trembling junkie (when really, all he's doing is pressing three keys over and over, which really takes no effort at all). While it would be fine to mention it as part of the picture being drawn, the author mentions it multiple times, clearly emphasizing this supposedly erratic nature of MKP. As an interesting side note, Olympic athletes also hate long waits and are itching to get into competition, I recall specifically in one of the women's finals where a start sound malfunction elicited a false start [that the swimmer was not DQ'd for since it was a malfunction], in which the commentator explicitly stated that they hated the wait and just wanted to get in, since the wait would disrupt them as they were ready at that very moment. That said, I do think a lot of the vitriol directed towards this article comes not just from the article, but the narrative itself and the attitude displayed by MKP's parents. Having just watched Dead Poet Society for the first time a week ago, it certainly is an infuriating thing to picture when it comes to obstructing young dreams, especially when those dreams are particular to this game that we all enjoy.
This... The story is nice, very nice. It shows a lot of MKP. But I hate the whole "tone" of the article. The personal interjections of the author are irritating, as it tries to project a false image to the reader loosely backed up by misinterpreted facts.
I like the article, but not how it's written.
Actually I should say I like the story, but not the article.
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On August 06 2012 19:42 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 18:55 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 17:47 FrosTByTe11 wrote:
I think for those saying that video games have nothing to contribute to life is quite false because like anything you do in life, you get something out of it. For example, in Day9's #100 daily, he talked a lot about the things he learned in life relative to his career playing Starcraft. If there is anything that separates a gaming addict and a competitive sports player, I think that video pretty much explain a lot about the differences between the two. There is no transition from progamer to any other job... Skills learned as a progamer will not help you in any other job ... contrary to regular sports or studying ... and I hope people will stop these useless comparisons. ...There is also no transition from professional athlete to any other job. You might say: "coach! commentator! they've earned enough to not need another job!" - but the exact same could apply to gaming, just on a smaller scale because it simply has a smaller scene. That said, what about the smaller sports, that don't get as much attention? Should those athletes also just give up and go? Now, I'm not saying "yeah everyone, go and drop out of school and try to become pros." The bottom line is that the great majority of these people, esports or regular sports, are doing something they love, doing it because they love to compete, and doing it because there also happens to be some incentives on the side. And that is the similarity that distinguishes between addiction and genuine positive pursuit, not the amount of money that you get paid.
But except that NBA, NFL, NHL players gets paid a shittone, they can transition into coaching positions afterward or become one of the executives at that particular franchise they played for at a pretty smooth pace. With 1 single year of paycheck, nearly all of them are able to purchase a shop or store of their own to receive more income.
But professional gaming don't exactly offer such luxury unless you make it to the top 1%. It is a such volatile atmosphere because you are uncertain about your future of yourself, your team, and most importantly the state of your game.
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There's certainly a transition from professional athlete, "e-" or otherwise to other jobs, they're just not direct. Being in the pro scene is a way of networking, it's a way of increasing your profile, and an educational experience.
You don't have to go into SC2 casting from SC2 playing. You can go into a number of gaming related fields. Want a career in marketing gaming peripherals? By being on pro gaming teams you've certainly built a network of contacts in the field.
Sure, it's not a guarantee of employment, you need actual skills and talents and a bit of luck, but that's equally true of most university degrees. Probably the only thing you can do from 18-21 that guarantees employment is going to a trade school and learning plumbing or something.
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On August 06 2012 19:48 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 19:42 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 06 2012 18:55 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 17:47 FrosTByTe11 wrote:
I think for those saying that video games have nothing to contribute to life is quite false because like anything you do in life, you get something out of it. For example, in Day9's #100 daily, he talked a lot about the things he learned in life relative to his career playing Starcraft. If there is anything that separates a gaming addict and a competitive sports player, I think that video pretty much explain a lot about the differences between the two. There is no transition from progamer to any other job... Skills learned as a progamer will not help you in any other job ... contrary to regular sports or studying ... and I hope people will stop these useless comparisons. ...There is also no transition from professional athlete to any other job. You might say: "coach! commentator! they've earned enough to not need another job!" - but the exact same could apply to gaming, just on a smaller scale because it simply has a smaller scene. That said, what about the smaller sports, that don't get as much attention? Should those athletes also just give up and go? Now, I'm not saying "yeah everyone, go and drop out of school and try to become pros." The bottom line is that the great majority of these people, esports or regular sports, are doing something they love, doing it because they love to compete, and doing it because there also happens to be some incentives on the side. And that is the similarity that distinguishes between addiction and genuine positive pursuit, not the amount of money that you get paid. But except that NBA, NFL, NHL players gets paid a shittone, they can transition into coaching positions afterward or become one of the executives at that particular franchise they played for at a pretty smooth pace. With 1 single year of paycheck, nearly all of them are able to purchase a shop or store of their own to receive more income. But professional gaming don't exactly offer such luxury unless you make it to the top 1%. It is a such volatile atmosphere because you are uncertain about your future of yourself, your team, and most importantly the state of your game.
I agree, and that adds to my point, as ultimately, e-sports are real sports competitors are not/should not be in it solely for $ since probability of success is such a fickle thing, and not the main thing that drives most of them in the first place.
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On August 06 2012 19:41 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 19:40 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 19:37 yeint wrote:On August 06 2012 19:29 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 19:06 Fencar wrote:There is no transition from progamer to any other job ... and this makes any concern about potentially wasting the most important time of your life on something trivial (because you dont produce anything while playing computer games) instead of learning skills which will sustain you for the rest of your life. No progamer will make enough money to be able to sustain himself for 40-50 more years and for that time you need a plan! Coaching, off the top of my head. You see pro gamers transition to coaching for various games a lot in my memory. Coaching and casting jobs are available IN A VERY VERY VERY LIMITED NUMBER. Thus you can NOT get a coaching/casting job for all progamers when their careers are over. Coaches and casters also keep their jobs for more years than a progamer is fit enough to be a progamer. You also need additional knowledge / talents as a coach / caster which only very few progamers will have. Its not the same for regular sports or any form of education. What the hell? Did you really say there isn't a VERY VERY VERY limited number of coaching and casting positions in regular sports? No I didnt ... those jobs are limited for ESPORTS ... since there arent any local teams, national championships and school training groups which need Starcraft coaches. And there are far fewer people who even attempt to go pro. Logically, there are just as many coaching/casting positions in SC2 as there are in, say, soccer. Relatively speaking, because the amount of soccer players is astronomically higher.
On August 06 2012 19:42 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 18:55 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 17:47 FrosTByTe11 wrote:
I think for those saying that video games have nothing to contribute to life is quite false because like anything you do in life, you get something out of it. For example, in Day9's #100 daily, he talked a lot about the things he learned in life relative to his career playing Starcraft. If there is anything that separates a gaming addict and a competitive sports player, I think that video pretty much explain a lot about the differences between the two. There is no transition from progamer to any other job... Skills learned as a progamer will not help you in any other job ... contrary to regular sports or studying ... and I hope people will stop these useless comparisons. ...There is also no transition from professional athlete to any other job. You might say: "coach! commentator! they've earned enough to not need another job!" - but the exact same could apply to gaming, just on a smaller scale because it simply has a smaller scene. That said, what about the smaller sports, that don't get as much attention? Should those athletes also just give up and go? Now, I'm not saying "yeah everyone, go and drop out of school and try to become pros." The bottom line is that the great majority of these people, esports or regular sports, are doing something they love, doing it because they love to compete, and doing it because there also happens to be some incentives on the side. And that is the similarity that distinguishes between addiction and genuine positive pursuit, not the amount of money that you get paid.
No ... as a football player you can also "transition into" school teacher (for sports) which one friend of mine did. The general fitness of playing any "real sport" will also benefit you in physical jobs which have nothing to do with the sport itself or teaching it to others. For computer games that is not the case, since progamer =/= programmer and you dont have any special knowledge useful for anything else needed in life.
The main problem isnt really the pros, because they are few in number, but rather the thousands of kids who waste their time dreaming about it and playing too much with their computer while they should actually be going out, meet other people and have fun in real life. They arent told that becoming an eSport pro has some severe downsides, because it doesnt help you with the 40-50 years after your progamer life (if you manage to pull that off).
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Are they addicted? Yes they are. But not anymore than football players are addicted to football. Or baseball players to baseball. Look to reach those heights in any skill you have to have an addiction. Its not normal behavior to sit down for 8+ hours and practice the same thing over and over. But hey if it an Olympic diver you call it dedication. If its a starcraft player you call it addiction. In reality both are the same thing only difference is society approves of the diver.
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On August 06 2012 19:14 Hyperionnn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 18:42 Kyrillion wrote:I have an easy question, which one would you choose?
Your son/daughter practices a sport 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter studies on his/her classes 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter plays videogames 10 hours per day.
Although the first 2 options are not that pleasant either, most of the people will pick 1st or 2nd option, only some video game addicts will go for 3rd. Not a very hard question indeed. In the first option, it all depends on the sport but the second one is clearly the worst. Unless we're talking about University, it's fairly astonishing and sad that one could study for 10 hours a day. Thank god Nony wasn't playing MKP. The reporters head would fucking explode trying to find a way to insult that handsome man. Makes you wonder why they chose to show the beauteous Tasteless while introducing him as an ex-progamer. Which debatable, but that's what the viewer will think anyway. It is even more sad one could play some game for 10 hours a day, I guess you are playing around 10 hours as well
Is it any worse than sitting in an office for 10 hours a day? At least video games are challenging...
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On August 06 2012 20:09 Detwiler wrote:
Are they addicted? Yes they are. But not anymore than football players are addicted to football. Or baseball players to baseball. Look to reach those heights in any skill you have to have an addiction. Its not normal behavior to sit down for 8+ hours and practice the same thing over and over. But hey if it an Olympic diver you call it dedication. If its a starcraft player you call it addiction. In reality both are the same thing only difference is society approves of the diver.
No, they are not the same thing, because playing a computer game does NOTHING for your future life and is just something "for the moment". Sports will always give you fitness which is good to have as a human being and will at least give you a fringe training for other jobs. Do you think "playing computer games" will look good on any job application? Nope. Having trained as a professional athlete will give you fitness enough to become a firefighter, policeman, ranger, ... name one job where "playing Starcraft 2" will at least give you a fringe benefit and which is needed en masse like cops, firefighters and so on.
On August 06 2012 20:14 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 19:14 Hyperionnn wrote:On August 06 2012 18:42 Kyrillion wrote:I have an easy question, which one would you choose?
Your son/daughter practices a sport 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter studies on his/her classes 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter plays videogames 10 hours per day.
Although the first 2 options are not that pleasant either, most of the people will pick 1st or 2nd option, only some video game addicts will go for 3rd. Not a very hard question indeed. In the first option, it all depends on the sport but the second one is clearly the worst. Unless we're talking about University, it's fairly astonishing and sad that one could study for 10 hours a day. Thank god Nony wasn't playing MKP. The reporters head would fucking explode trying to find a way to insult that handsome man. Makes you wonder why they chose to show the beauteous Tasteless while introducing him as an ex-progamer. Which debatable, but that's what the viewer will think anyway. It is even more sad one could play some game for 10 hours a day, I guess you are playing around 10 hours as well Is it any worse than sitting in an office for 10 hours a day? At least video games are challenging...
They also dont mean anything while the decisions you make in your office all those 10 hours a day can make the difference between an oilspill in the gulf of mexico or a building your company constructed withstanding a tornado and saving lives.
Please kids .... stop kidding yourselves.
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On August 06 2012 20:18 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 20:09 Detwiler wrote:
Are they addicted? Yes they are. But not anymore than football players are addicted to football. Or baseball players to baseball. Look to reach those heights in any skill you have to have an addiction. Its not normal behavior to sit down for 8+ hours and practice the same thing over and over. But hey if it an Olympic diver you call it dedication. If its a starcraft player you call it addiction. In reality both are the same thing only difference is society approves of the diver. No, they are not the same thing, because playing a computer game does NOTHING for your future life and is just something "for the moment". Sports will always give you fitness which is good to have as a human being and will at least give you a fringe training for other jobs. Do you think "playing computer games" will look good on any job application? Nope. Having trained as a professional athlete will give you fitness enough to become a firefighter, policeman, ranger, ... name one job where "playing Starcraft 2" will at least give you a fringe benefit and which is needed en masse like cops, firefighters and so on. Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 20:14 Dosey wrote:On August 06 2012 19:14 Hyperionnn wrote:On August 06 2012 18:42 Kyrillion wrote:I have an easy question, which one would you choose?
Your son/daughter practices a sport 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter studies on his/her classes 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter plays videogames 10 hours per day.
Although the first 2 options are not that pleasant either, most of the people will pick 1st or 2nd option, only some video game addicts will go for 3rd. Not a very hard question indeed. In the first option, it all depends on the sport but the second one is clearly the worst. Unless we're talking about University, it's fairly astonishing and sad that one could study for 10 hours a day. Thank god Nony wasn't playing MKP. The reporters head would fucking explode trying to find a way to insult that handsome man. Makes you wonder why they chose to show the beauteous Tasteless while introducing him as an ex-progamer. Which debatable, but that's what the viewer will think anyway. It is even more sad one could play some game for 10 hours a day, I guess you are playing around 10 hours as well Is it any worse than sitting in an office for 10 hours a day? At least video games are challenging... They also dont mean anything while the decisions you make in your office all those 10 hours a day can make the difference between an oilspill in the gulf of mexico or a building your company constructed withstanding a tornado and saving lives. Please kids .... stop kidding yourselves.
What does the effect it has on their future have anything to do with weather or not its an addiction the same as any other sports player? Oh wait it doesnt.
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On August 06 2012 20:24 Detwiler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 20:18 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 20:09 Detwiler wrote:
Are they addicted? Yes they are. But not anymore than football players are addicted to football. Or baseball players to baseball. Look to reach those heights in any skill you have to have an addiction. Its not normal behavior to sit down for 8+ hours and practice the same thing over and over. But hey if it an Olympic diver you call it dedication. If its a starcraft player you call it addiction. In reality both are the same thing only difference is society approves of the diver. No, they are not the same thing, because playing a computer game does NOTHING for your future life and is just something "for the moment". Sports will always give you fitness which is good to have as a human being and will at least give you a fringe training for other jobs. Do you think "playing computer games" will look good on any job application? Nope. Having trained as a professional athlete will give you fitness enough to become a firefighter, policeman, ranger, ... name one job where "playing Starcraft 2" will at least give you a fringe benefit and which is needed en masse like cops, firefighters and so on. On August 06 2012 20:14 Dosey wrote:On August 06 2012 19:14 Hyperionnn wrote:On August 06 2012 18:42 Kyrillion wrote:I have an easy question, which one would you choose?
Your son/daughter practices a sport 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter studies on his/her classes 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter plays videogames 10 hours per day.
Although the first 2 options are not that pleasant either, most of the people will pick 1st or 2nd option, only some video game addicts will go for 3rd. Not a very hard question indeed. In the first option, it all depends on the sport but the second one is clearly the worst. Unless we're talking about University, it's fairly astonishing and sad that one could study for 10 hours a day. Thank god Nony wasn't playing MKP. The reporters head would fucking explode trying to find a way to insult that handsome man. Makes you wonder why they chose to show the beauteous Tasteless while introducing him as an ex-progamer. Which debatable, but that's what the viewer will think anyway. It is even more sad one could play some game for 10 hours a day, I guess you are playing around 10 hours as well Is it any worse than sitting in an office for 10 hours a day? At least video games are challenging... They also dont mean anything while the decisions you make in your office all those 10 hours a day can make the difference between an oilspill in the gulf of mexico or a building your company constructed withstanding a tornado and saving lives. Please kids .... stop kidding yourselves. What does the effect it has on their future have anything to do with weather or not its an addiction the same as any other sports player? Oh wait it doesnt.
Its the same for any addiction ... it doesnt affect your future life except to make you unprepared to meet it. Real sports helps you and thus it isnt an addiction, but eSports doesnt give you any benefit which integrates with anything else and thus it is terrible and an addiction.
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On August 06 2012 20:18 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 20:09 Detwiler wrote:
Are they addicted? Yes they are. But not anymore than football players are addicted to football. Or baseball players to baseball. Look to reach those heights in any skill you have to have an addiction. Its not normal behavior to sit down for 8+ hours and practice the same thing over and over. But hey if it an Olympic diver you call it dedication. If its a starcraft player you call it addiction. In reality both are the same thing only difference is society approves of the diver. No, they are not the same thing, because playing a computer game does NOTHING for your future life and is just something "for the moment". Sports will always give you fitness which is good to have as a human being and will at least give you a fringe training for other jobs. Do you think "playing computer games" will look good on any job application? Nope. Having trained as a professional athlete will give you fitness enough to become a firefighter, policeman, ranger, ... name one job where "playing Starcraft 2" will at least give you a fringe benefit and which is needed en masse like cops, firefighters and so on. Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 20:14 Dosey wrote:On August 06 2012 19:14 Hyperionnn wrote:On August 06 2012 18:42 Kyrillion wrote:I have an easy question, which one would you choose?
Your son/daughter practices a sport 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter studies on his/her classes 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter plays videogames 10 hours per day.
Although the first 2 options are not that pleasant either, most of the people will pick 1st or 2nd option, only some video game addicts will go for 3rd. Not a very hard question indeed. In the first option, it all depends on the sport but the second one is clearly the worst. Unless we're talking about University, it's fairly astonishing and sad that one could study for 10 hours a day. Thank god Nony wasn't playing MKP. The reporters head would fucking explode trying to find a way to insult that handsome man. Makes you wonder why they chose to show the beauteous Tasteless while introducing him as an ex-progamer. Which debatable, but that's what the viewer will think anyway. It is even more sad one could play some game for 10 hours a day, I guess you are playing around 10 hours as well Is it any worse than sitting in an office for 10 hours a day? At least video games are challenging... They also dont mean anything while the decisions you make in your office all those 10 hours a day can make the difference between an oilspill in the gulf of mexico or a building your company constructed withstanding a tornado and saving lives. Please kids .... stop kidding yourselves.
Sorry, my office doesn't save the world. And I work 12 hours a day, most of it spent (guess where?) on my ass. By your argument though, sports are just as insignificant as video games because they don't do shit for the world either.
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On August 06 2012 20:27 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 20:24 Detwiler wrote:On August 06 2012 20:18 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 20:09 Detwiler wrote:
Are they addicted? Yes they are. But not anymore than football players are addicted to football. Or baseball players to baseball. Look to reach those heights in any skill you have to have an addiction. Its not normal behavior to sit down for 8+ hours and practice the same thing over and over. But hey if it an Olympic diver you call it dedication. If its a starcraft player you call it addiction. In reality both are the same thing only difference is society approves of the diver. No, they are not the same thing, because playing a computer game does NOTHING for your future life and is just something "for the moment". Sports will always give you fitness which is good to have as a human being and will at least give you a fringe training for other jobs. Do you think "playing computer games" will look good on any job application? Nope. Having trained as a professional athlete will give you fitness enough to become a firefighter, policeman, ranger, ... name one job where "playing Starcraft 2" will at least give you a fringe benefit and which is needed en masse like cops, firefighters and so on. On August 06 2012 20:14 Dosey wrote:On August 06 2012 19:14 Hyperionnn wrote:On August 06 2012 18:42 Kyrillion wrote:I have an easy question, which one would you choose?
Your son/daughter practices a sport 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter studies on his/her classes 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter plays videogames 10 hours per day.
Although the first 2 options are not that pleasant either, most of the people will pick 1st or 2nd option, only some video game addicts will go for 3rd. Not a very hard question indeed. In the first option, it all depends on the sport but the second one is clearly the worst. Unless we're talking about University, it's fairly astonishing and sad that one could study for 10 hours a day. Thank god Nony wasn't playing MKP. The reporters head would fucking explode trying to find a way to insult that handsome man. Makes you wonder why they chose to show the beauteous Tasteless while introducing him as an ex-progamer. Which debatable, but that's what the viewer will think anyway. It is even more sad one could play some game for 10 hours a day, I guess you are playing around 10 hours as well Is it any worse than sitting in an office for 10 hours a day? At least video games are challenging... They also dont mean anything while the decisions you make in your office all those 10 hours a day can make the difference between an oilspill in the gulf of mexico or a building your company constructed withstanding a tornado and saving lives. Please kids .... stop kidding yourselves. What does the effect it has on their future have anything to do with weather or not its an addiction the same as any other sports player? Oh wait it doesnt. Its the same for any addiction ... it doesnt affect your future life except to make you unprepared to meet it. Real sports helps you and thus it isnt an addiction, but eSports doesnt give you any benefit which integrates with anything else and thus it is terrible and an addiction.
For every one player that makes it in pro sports then retires and becomes a commentator there are 1000s that fail or end up addicted to pain killers with a broken body that no one remembers. Now if you are talking about people who want to drop out of highschool and do esports full time. Thats obviously an idiot decision but not any worse than a person dropping out of high school to join the nba. What happens when he gets injured in his 1st season and is dropped from the team? There noway he can get into college because the only way he would have got there in the 1st place is a basketball scholarship because his grades were shit from spending all his time practicing. It happens all the time. But like i said previously society approves of the basketball player he was just following his dream and like you said gaming is a "terrible addiction". On a side note if gaming is such a terrible addiction why do you have over 2k posts on TL seems kinda odd to me lol.
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On August 06 2012 20:27 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 20:24 Detwiler wrote:On August 06 2012 20:18 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 20:09 Detwiler wrote:
Are they addicted? Yes they are. But not anymore than football players are addicted to football. Or baseball players to baseball. Look to reach those heights in any skill you have to have an addiction. Its not normal behavior to sit down for 8+ hours and practice the same thing over and over. But hey if it an Olympic diver you call it dedication. If its a starcraft player you call it addiction. In reality both are the same thing only difference is society approves of the diver. No, they are not the same thing, because playing a computer game does NOTHING for your future life and is just something "for the moment". Sports will always give you fitness which is good to have as a human being and will at least give you a fringe training for other jobs. Do you think "playing computer games" will look good on any job application? Nope. Having trained as a professional athlete will give you fitness enough to become a firefighter, policeman, ranger, ... name one job where "playing Starcraft 2" will at least give you a fringe benefit and which is needed en masse like cops, firefighters and so on. On August 06 2012 20:14 Dosey wrote:On August 06 2012 19:14 Hyperionnn wrote:On August 06 2012 18:42 Kyrillion wrote:I have an easy question, which one would you choose?
Your son/daughter practices a sport 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter studies on his/her classes 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter plays videogames 10 hours per day.
Although the first 2 options are not that pleasant either, most of the people will pick 1st or 2nd option, only some video game addicts will go for 3rd. Not a very hard question indeed. In the first option, it all depends on the sport but the second one is clearly the worst. Unless we're talking about University, it's fairly astonishing and sad that one could study for 10 hours a day. Thank god Nony wasn't playing MKP. The reporters head would fucking explode trying to find a way to insult that handsome man. Makes you wonder why they chose to show the beauteous Tasteless while introducing him as an ex-progamer. Which debatable, but that's what the viewer will think anyway. It is even more sad one could play some game for 10 hours a day, I guess you are playing around 10 hours as well Is it any worse than sitting in an office for 10 hours a day? At least video games are challenging... They also dont mean anything while the decisions you make in your office all those 10 hours a day can make the difference between an oilspill in the gulf of mexico or a building your company constructed withstanding a tornado and saving lives. Please kids .... stop kidding yourselves. What does the effect it has on their future have anything to do with weather or not its an addiction the same as any other sports player? Oh wait it doesnt. Its the same for any addiction ... it doesnt affect your future life except to make you unprepared to meet it. Real sports helps you and thus it isnt an addiction, but eSports doesnt give you any benefit which integrates with anything else and thus it is terrible and an addiction.
Video games can't help you develop skills for the future? Deductive reasoning, cognitive thinking, speed, accuracy, vision, multitasking abilities, market shifts, math, probabilities, etc..
You telling me that those skills are meaningless?
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On August 06 2012 20:54 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 20:27 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 20:24 Detwiler wrote:On August 06 2012 20:18 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 20:09 Detwiler wrote:
Are they addicted? Yes they are. But not anymore than football players are addicted to football. Or baseball players to baseball. Look to reach those heights in any skill you have to have an addiction. Its not normal behavior to sit down for 8+ hours and practice the same thing over and over. But hey if it an Olympic diver you call it dedication. If its a starcraft player you call it addiction. In reality both are the same thing only difference is society approves of the diver. No, they are not the same thing, because playing a computer game does NOTHING for your future life and is just something "for the moment". Sports will always give you fitness which is good to have as a human being and will at least give you a fringe training for other jobs. Do you think "playing computer games" will look good on any job application? Nope. Having trained as a professional athlete will give you fitness enough to become a firefighter, policeman, ranger, ... name one job where "playing Starcraft 2" will at least give you a fringe benefit and which is needed en masse like cops, firefighters and so on. On August 06 2012 20:14 Dosey wrote:On August 06 2012 19:14 Hyperionnn wrote:On August 06 2012 18:42 Kyrillion wrote:I have an easy question, which one would you choose?
Your son/daughter practices a sport 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter studies on his/her classes 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter plays videogames 10 hours per day.
Although the first 2 options are not that pleasant either, most of the people will pick 1st or 2nd option, only some video game addicts will go for 3rd. Not a very hard question indeed. In the first option, it all depends on the sport but the second one is clearly the worst. Unless we're talking about University, it's fairly astonishing and sad that one could study for 10 hours a day. Thank god Nony wasn't playing MKP. The reporters head would fucking explode trying to find a way to insult that handsome man. Makes you wonder why they chose to show the beauteous Tasteless while introducing him as an ex-progamer. Which debatable, but that's what the viewer will think anyway. It is even more sad one could play some game for 10 hours a day, I guess you are playing around 10 hours as well Is it any worse than sitting in an office for 10 hours a day? At least video games are challenging... They also dont mean anything while the decisions you make in your office all those 10 hours a day can make the difference between an oilspill in the gulf of mexico or a building your company constructed withstanding a tornado and saving lives. Please kids .... stop kidding yourselves. What does the effect it has on their future have anything to do with weather or not its an addiction the same as any other sports player? Oh wait it doesnt. Its the same for any addiction ... it doesnt affect your future life except to make you unprepared to meet it. Real sports helps you and thus it isnt an addiction, but eSports doesnt give you any benefit which integrates with anything else and thus it is terrible and an addiction. Video games can't help you develop skills for the future? Deductive reasoning, cognitive thinking, speed, accuracy, vision, multitasking abilities, market shifts, math, probabilities, etc.. You telling me that those skills are meaningless?
Enrolling your self in to college helps you develop those skills much more faster than playing computer games ....
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On August 06 2012 20:27 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 20:24 Detwiler wrote:On August 06 2012 20:18 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 20:09 Detwiler wrote:
Are they addicted? Yes they are. But not anymore than football players are addicted to football. Or baseball players to baseball. Look to reach those heights in any skill you have to have an addiction. Its not normal behavior to sit down for 8+ hours and practice the same thing over and over. But hey if it an Olympic diver you call it dedication. If its a starcraft player you call it addiction. In reality both are the same thing only difference is society approves of the diver. No, they are not the same thing, because playing a computer game does NOTHING for your future life and is just something "for the moment". Sports will always give you fitness which is good to have as a human being and will at least give you a fringe training for other jobs. Do you think "playing computer games" will look good on any job application? Nope. Having trained as a professional athlete will give you fitness enough to become a firefighter, policeman, ranger, ... name one job where "playing Starcraft 2" will at least give you a fringe benefit and which is needed en masse like cops, firefighters and so on. On August 06 2012 20:14 Dosey wrote:On August 06 2012 19:14 Hyperionnn wrote:On August 06 2012 18:42 Kyrillion wrote:I have an easy question, which one would you choose?
Your son/daughter practices a sport 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter studies on his/her classes 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter plays videogames 10 hours per day.
Although the first 2 options are not that pleasant either, most of the people will pick 1st or 2nd option, only some video game addicts will go for 3rd. Not a very hard question indeed. In the first option, it all depends on the sport but the second one is clearly the worst. Unless we're talking about University, it's fairly astonishing and sad that one could study for 10 hours a day. Thank god Nony wasn't playing MKP. The reporters head would fucking explode trying to find a way to insult that handsome man. Makes you wonder why they chose to show the beauteous Tasteless while introducing him as an ex-progamer. Which debatable, but that's what the viewer will think anyway. It is even more sad one could play some game for 10 hours a day, I guess you are playing around 10 hours as well Is it any worse than sitting in an office for 10 hours a day? At least video games are challenging... They also dont mean anything while the decisions you make in your office all those 10 hours a day can make the difference between an oilspill in the gulf of mexico or a building your company constructed withstanding a tornado and saving lives. Please kids .... stop kidding yourselves. What does the effect it has on their future have anything to do with weather or not its an addiction the same as any other sports player? Oh wait it doesnt. Its the same for any addiction ... it doesnt affect your future life except to make you unprepared to meet it. Real sports helps you and thus it isnt an addiction, but eSports doesnt give you any benefit which integrates with anything else and thus it is terrible and an addiction.
That's just silly. An addiction, in the sense that we're discussing here, is a mental disorder. Its usefulness does not enter into the equation. If someone's addicted to gambling, and wins a lot because they're good at it, they're not any less addicted. Being a workaholic can make you more professionally successful, but that doesn't make you healthy. And in this sense, progamers are generally not addicts, for the same reason that pro poker players are generally not addicted to gambling. It's like the psychologist quoted in the article says - the competitive mindset runs against the psychological mechanisms of addiction. You very rarely see competitors addicted to their game of choice. Obsessed, perhaps. But not addicted.
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On August 06 2012 20:36 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 20:18 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 20:09 Detwiler wrote:
Are they addicted? Yes they are. But not anymore than football players are addicted to football. Or baseball players to baseball. Look to reach those heights in any skill you have to have an addiction. Its not normal behavior to sit down for 8+ hours and practice the same thing over and over. But hey if it an Olympic diver you call it dedication. If its a starcraft player you call it addiction. In reality both are the same thing only difference is society approves of the diver. No, they are not the same thing, because playing a computer game does NOTHING for your future life and is just something "for the moment". Sports will always give you fitness which is good to have as a human being and will at least give you a fringe training for other jobs. Do you think "playing computer games" will look good on any job application? Nope. Having trained as a professional athlete will give you fitness enough to become a firefighter, policeman, ranger, ... name one job where "playing Starcraft 2" will at least give you a fringe benefit and which is needed en masse like cops, firefighters and so on. On August 06 2012 20:14 Dosey wrote:On August 06 2012 19:14 Hyperionnn wrote:On August 06 2012 18:42 Kyrillion wrote:I have an easy question, which one would you choose?
Your son/daughter practices a sport 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter studies on his/her classes 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter plays videogames 10 hours per day.
Although the first 2 options are not that pleasant either, most of the people will pick 1st or 2nd option, only some video game addicts will go for 3rd. Not a very hard question indeed. In the first option, it all depends on the sport but the second one is clearly the worst. Unless we're talking about University, it's fairly astonishing and sad that one could study for 10 hours a day. Thank god Nony wasn't playing MKP. The reporters head would fucking explode trying to find a way to insult that handsome man. Makes you wonder why they chose to show the beauteous Tasteless while introducing him as an ex-progamer. Which debatable, but that's what the viewer will think anyway. It is even more sad one could play some game for 10 hours a day, I guess you are playing around 10 hours as well Is it any worse than sitting in an office for 10 hours a day? At least video games are challenging... They also dont mean anything while the decisions you make in your office all those 10 hours a day can make the difference between an oilspill in the gulf of mexico or a building your company constructed withstanding a tornado and saving lives. Please kids .... stop kidding yourselves. Sorry, my office doesn't save the world. And I work 12 hours a day, most of it spent (guess where?) on my ass. By your argument though, sports are just as insignificant as video games because they don't do shit for the world either.
At least you actually HAVE a job which helps pay for your bills. Playing an eSport doesnt help "running the world" in any way, because it is just for entertainment and thus OPTIONAL for a life. I dont know what kind of office job you have, but you get paid for it, so you play a role in your society.
I never said anything as stupid as "regular sports is as insignificant as video games" but rather the opposite. Regular sports are MUCH better than eSports, because even if you arent able to go into the NBA, NFL or whatever, you will still have your personal fitness for othe jobs which require it. Thus regular sports actually are part of the training regime of schools and such which make you fit for the rest of your life to function as a beneficial individual in your society.
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On August 06 2012 21:10 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 20:36 Dosey wrote:On August 06 2012 20:18 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 20:09 Detwiler wrote:
Are they addicted? Yes they are. But not anymore than football players are addicted to football. Or baseball players to baseball. Look to reach those heights in any skill you have to have an addiction. Its not normal behavior to sit down for 8+ hours and practice the same thing over and over. But hey if it an Olympic diver you call it dedication. If its a starcraft player you call it addiction. In reality both are the same thing only difference is society approves of the diver. No, they are not the same thing, because playing a computer game does NOTHING for your future life and is just something "for the moment". Sports will always give you fitness which is good to have as a human being and will at least give you a fringe training for other jobs. Do you think "playing computer games" will look good on any job application? Nope. Having trained as a professional athlete will give you fitness enough to become a firefighter, policeman, ranger, ... name one job where "playing Starcraft 2" will at least give you a fringe benefit and which is needed en masse like cops, firefighters and so on. On August 06 2012 20:14 Dosey wrote:On August 06 2012 19:14 Hyperionnn wrote:On August 06 2012 18:42 Kyrillion wrote:I have an easy question, which one would you choose?
Your son/daughter practices a sport 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter studies on his/her classes 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter plays videogames 10 hours per day.
Although the first 2 options are not that pleasant either, most of the people will pick 1st or 2nd option, only some video game addicts will go for 3rd. Not a very hard question indeed. In the first option, it all depends on the sport but the second one is clearly the worst. Unless we're talking about University, it's fairly astonishing and sad that one could study for 10 hours a day. Thank god Nony wasn't playing MKP. The reporters head would fucking explode trying to find a way to insult that handsome man. Makes you wonder why they chose to show the beauteous Tasteless while introducing him as an ex-progamer. Which debatable, but that's what the viewer will think anyway. It is even more sad one could play some game for 10 hours a day, I guess you are playing around 10 hours as well Is it any worse than sitting in an office for 10 hours a day? At least video games are challenging... They also dont mean anything while the decisions you make in your office all those 10 hours a day can make the difference between an oilspill in the gulf of mexico or a building your company constructed withstanding a tornado and saving lives. Please kids .... stop kidding yourselves. Sorry, my office doesn't save the world. And I work 12 hours a day, most of it spent (guess where?) on my ass. By your argument though, sports are just as insignificant as video games because they don't do shit for the world either. At least you actually HAVE a job which helps pay for your bills. Playing an eSport doesnt help "running the world" in any way, because it is just for entertainment and thus OPTIONAL for a life. I dont know what kind of office job you have, but you get paid for it, so you play a role in your society. I never said anything as stupid as "regular sports is as insignificant as video games" but rather the opposite. Regular sports are MUCH better than eSports, because even if you arent able to go into the NBA, NFL or whatever, you will still have your personal fitness for othe jobs which require it. Thus regular sports actually are part of the training regime of schools and such which make you fit for the rest of your life to function as a beneficial individual in your society.
It's a shame sports never taught you reading comprehension...
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On August 06 2012 21:00 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 20:27 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 20:24 Detwiler wrote:On August 06 2012 20:18 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 20:09 Detwiler wrote:
Are they addicted? Yes they are. But not anymore than football players are addicted to football. Or baseball players to baseball. Look to reach those heights in any skill you have to have an addiction. Its not normal behavior to sit down for 8+ hours and practice the same thing over and over. But hey if it an Olympic diver you call it dedication. If its a starcraft player you call it addiction. In reality both are the same thing only difference is society approves of the diver. No, they are not the same thing, because playing a computer game does NOTHING for your future life and is just something "for the moment". Sports will always give you fitness which is good to have as a human being and will at least give you a fringe training for other jobs. Do you think "playing computer games" will look good on any job application? Nope. Having trained as a professional athlete will give you fitness enough to become a firefighter, policeman, ranger, ... name one job where "playing Starcraft 2" will at least give you a fringe benefit and which is needed en masse like cops, firefighters and so on. On August 06 2012 20:14 Dosey wrote:On August 06 2012 19:14 Hyperionnn wrote:On August 06 2012 18:42 Kyrillion wrote:I have an easy question, which one would you choose?
Your son/daughter practices a sport 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter studies on his/her classes 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter plays videogames 10 hours per day.
Although the first 2 options are not that pleasant either, most of the people will pick 1st or 2nd option, only some video game addicts will go for 3rd. Not a very hard question indeed. In the first option, it all depends on the sport but the second one is clearly the worst. Unless we're talking about University, it's fairly astonishing and sad that one could study for 10 hours a day. Thank god Nony wasn't playing MKP. The reporters head would fucking explode trying to find a way to insult that handsome man. Makes you wonder why they chose to show the beauteous Tasteless while introducing him as an ex-progamer. Which debatable, but that's what the viewer will think anyway. It is even more sad one could play some game for 10 hours a day, I guess you are playing around 10 hours as well Is it any worse than sitting in an office for 10 hours a day? At least video games are challenging... They also dont mean anything while the decisions you make in your office all those 10 hours a day can make the difference between an oilspill in the gulf of mexico or a building your company constructed withstanding a tornado and saving lives. Please kids .... stop kidding yourselves. What does the effect it has on their future have anything to do with weather or not its an addiction the same as any other sports player? Oh wait it doesnt. Its the same for any addiction ... it doesnt affect your future life except to make you unprepared to meet it. Real sports helps you and thus it isnt an addiction, but eSports doesnt give you any benefit which integrates with anything else and thus it is terrible and an addiction. That's just silly. An addiction, in the sense that we're discussing here, is a mental disorder. Its usefulness does not enter into the equation. If someone's addicted to gambling, and wins a lot because they're good at it, they're not any less addicted. Being a workaholic can make you more professionally successful, but that doesn't make you healthy. And in this sense, progamers are generally not addicts, for the same reason that pro poker players are generally not addicted to gambling. It's like the psychologist quoted in the article says - the competitive mindset runs against the psychological mechanisms of addiction. You very rarely see competitors addicted to their game of choice. Obsessed, perhaps. But not addicted.
I said it in another post above already that "playing 10 hours as a job = not addicted", but "playing 10 hours for fun = addicted". Thus the non-pros who play as much are addicted and thus the whole allure of progaming is bad, because it is actually causing quite a few addictions in people who want to be like their idols and play too much. So I was referring to the "general non-pros" with my comments you quoted, because a part of their lives get wasted by not spending important time on getting ready for the future.
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On August 06 2012 21:14 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:10 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 20:36 Dosey wrote:On August 06 2012 20:18 Rabiator wrote:On August 06 2012 20:09 Detwiler wrote:
Are they addicted? Yes they are. But not anymore than football players are addicted to football. Or baseball players to baseball. Look to reach those heights in any skill you have to have an addiction. Its not normal behavior to sit down for 8+ hours and practice the same thing over and over. But hey if it an Olympic diver you call it dedication. If its a starcraft player you call it addiction. In reality both are the same thing only difference is society approves of the diver. No, they are not the same thing, because playing a computer game does NOTHING for your future life and is just something "for the moment". Sports will always give you fitness which is good to have as a human being and will at least give you a fringe training for other jobs. Do you think "playing computer games" will look good on any job application? Nope. Having trained as a professional athlete will give you fitness enough to become a firefighter, policeman, ranger, ... name one job where "playing Starcraft 2" will at least give you a fringe benefit and which is needed en masse like cops, firefighters and so on. On August 06 2012 20:14 Dosey wrote:On August 06 2012 19:14 Hyperionnn wrote:On August 06 2012 18:42 Kyrillion wrote:I have an easy question, which one would you choose?
Your son/daughter practices a sport 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter studies on his/her classes 10 hours per day.
Your son/daughter plays videogames 10 hours per day.
Although the first 2 options are not that pleasant either, most of the people will pick 1st or 2nd option, only some video game addicts will go for 3rd. Not a very hard question indeed. In the first option, it all depends on the sport but the second one is clearly the worst. Unless we're talking about University, it's fairly astonishing and sad that one could study for 10 hours a day. Thank god Nony wasn't playing MKP. The reporters head would fucking explode trying to find a way to insult that handsome man. Makes you wonder why they chose to show the beauteous Tasteless while introducing him as an ex-progamer. Which debatable, but that's what the viewer will think anyway. It is even more sad one could play some game for 10 hours a day, I guess you are playing around 10 hours as well Is it any worse than sitting in an office for 10 hours a day? At least video games are challenging... They also dont mean anything while the decisions you make in your office all those 10 hours a day can make the difference between an oilspill in the gulf of mexico or a building your company constructed withstanding a tornado and saving lives. Please kids .... stop kidding yourselves. Sorry, my office doesn't save the world. And I work 12 hours a day, most of it spent (guess where?) on my ass. By your argument though, sports are just as insignificant as video games because they don't do shit for the world either. At least you actually HAVE a job which helps pay for your bills. Playing an eSport doesnt help "running the world" in any way, because it is just for entertainment and thus OPTIONAL for a life. I dont know what kind of office job you have, but you get paid for it, so you play a role in your society. I never said anything as stupid as "regular sports is as insignificant as video games" but rather the opposite. Regular sports are MUCH better than eSports, because even if you arent able to go into the NBA, NFL or whatever, you will still have your personal fitness for othe jobs which require it. Thus regular sports actually are part of the training regime of schools and such which make you fit for the rest of your life to function as a beneficial individual in your society. It's a shame sports never taught you reading comprehension...
LOL. Im still trying to figure out if Esports is such a terrible addiction and drain on society why he has 2k+ post on TL...
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EPT
