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On July 25 2012 08:10 Greggle wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 07:06 Phobbers wrote:On July 25 2012 05:45 Greggle wrote:On July 24 2012 13:15 LeSioN wrote:On July 24 2012 12:19 forgehammer wrote:On July 24 2012 11:23 walklightwhat wrote:On July 24 2012 11:18 Jaaaaasper wrote:On July 24 2012 11:08 julysun wrote:On July 21 2012 07:09 sickoota wrote:
Damn man the bussiness side of EG must be sick they keep getting sponsors despite horrendous results and polarizing (at best) personalities. agreed Seconded. But we have to remember that eg is in esports as well, so its not just the sc2 branch getting sponsored. You say polarizing like it would have a negative effect on marketing. Half the community may hate him, but that hasn't stopped them from obsessing over everything IdrA says or does. Yeah, it's like Fox News or Howard Stern. People who like it listen to it, but The Daily Show pays more attention to Fox News than anyone else, and people who dislike Stern are way more likely to jump on anything he does than the people who don't absolutely love his show. you really went in-depth with your brain fart there. anyways, whats all the hate for eg about? so idra, incontrol and machine are worthless progamers and Huk dosent win every tournament? they still have the best results of any foreign team, period. Edit to prove my point: second highest prize money winnings globallysecond to IM (mvp and nestea...) You can subtract ~$50000 from Puma's winnings when he was on TSL, ~$45000 from Thorzain's and ~$26,000 from Huk's. So we'll call that -$120000, putting their total winnings at about $225,020, so like the 7th highest team? Liquid is at 8th with $221,620. You know Zenio, Hero, Taeja, and Hero haven't made all their prize money while just on TL as well right? Did the math and about $27,000 should be axed from their total just like you did with EG. Kinda funny that you proceeded to do that for EG but not for TL. I didn't bother to calculate that because I was calculating EG's rank, not Liquid's. I only even brought up Liquid's rank because it was the rank they would take with their adjusted winnings, meaning they would be higher than Liquid. I was only calculating EG's rank. I don't honestly care about the EG/Liquid rivalry, but you shouldn't count any contributions that came from other teams.
It makes your calculation completely irrelevant though, since you didn't do the calculations for all the other teams you can't arbitrarily place them at rank 7 when you haven't done the same to the rest of the teams you're comparing their winnings against.
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On July 26 2012 02:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
EG are the most successful non Korean team. I don't understand where this bullshit about bad results comes from.
CERTAINLY not in team leagues.
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On July 26 2012 09:41 Apollo_Shards wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 02:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
EG are the most successful non Korean team. I don't understand where this bullshit about bad results comes from. CERTAINLY not in team leagues.
What a shame that the other + Show Spoiler +night Idra takes out MKP and Demuslim takes out Creator and they still were not able to take down Prime in IPL TAC3
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I wonder if EG should keep there gaming house in Arizona. Like there is no doubt that they have many highly skilled/talent players but I think the amount of evidence pointing against that it is a bad to train in NA is starting to be overwhelming.
I mean Sase and Naniwa for instance complains a lot about the EU ladder, they think there opponents frequently are to weak in order for them to get maximum efficiency out of their training time. As far as I heard is this problem a lot greater in NA. You do not need to be a genius to realize that playing against players that are worse then yourself is not going to improve your skill level, specially in SC2 as it is a game which is really hard to improve in without good opponents.
I mean does not all EG players pretty much have SC2 as there full time job? Could they not live anywhere? I mean people study abroad for many years all the time, why cannot SC2 players do the same? Seems very inefficient to have the house in Arizona.
It does not necessarily need to be in Korea, as Korea I think is hard county to live/adept to in a more long term perspective.
Most players use Korea as bootcamp, they go in train hard and go away after 1-2 months. Further I think for some players like Idra, Korea might be bad. Cause Idra is the sort of player that do not handle loses very well and Idras skill level is highly related to his mental state rather then his actual max skill level.
Hell have house in northern EU instead. Make EU a hub for SC2 esport and make the EU ladder even more competitive. Good for foreign scene and thus good for Esport ^^
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On July 26 2012 21:19 4ZakeN87 wrote:
I wonder if EG should keep there gaming house in Arizona though. Like there is no doubt that they have many highly skilled/talent players but I think the amount of evidence pointing against that it is a bad to train in NA is starting to be overwhelming.
I mean Sase and Naniwa for instance complains a lot about the EU ladder, they think there opponents frequently are to weak in order for them to get maximum efficiency out of their training time. As far as I heard is this problem is a lot greater in NA. You do not need to be a genius to realize that playing against players that are worse then yourself is not going to improve your skill level, specially in SC2 as it is a game which is really hard to improve in without good opponents.
I mean does not all EG players pretty much have SC2 as there full time job? Could they not live anywhere? I mean people study abroad for many years all the time, why cannot SC2 players do the same? Seems very inefficient to have the house in Arizona.
It does not necessarily need to be in Korea, as Korea I think is hard county to live/adept to in a more long term perspective.
Most players use Korea as bootcamp, they go in train hard and go away after 1-2 months. Further I think for some players like Idra, Korea might be bad. Cause Idra is the sort of player that do not handle loses very well and Idras skill level is highly related to his mental state rather then his actual max skill level.
Hell have house in northern EU instead. Make EU a hub for SC2 esport and make the EU ladder even more competitive. Good for foreign scene and thus good for Esport ^^
I guess the only real response I can think of is that we live in a globalized world. It really doesn't matter if your house is in Arizona, Korea, or Egypt. As long as you have a decent connection strength, you should be able to play on every server. NA to KR lag can be bad during peak KR hours, I won't doubt that. But you don't exactly plan owning a house based around that. Houses cost money. Not to mention if you wish to buy a house in a country, and then live there for years without end, you typically need to be a citizen of the country.
But yeah, no one will buy a $200,000+ house in Europe just to make the European ladder have a higher EG presence.
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On July 26 2012 21:26 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 21:19 4ZakeN87 wrote:
I wonder if EG should keep there gaming house in Arizona though. Like there is no doubt that they have many highly skilled/talent players but I think the amount of evidence pointing against that it is a bad to train in NA is starting to be overwhelming.
I mean Sase and Naniwa for instance complains a lot about the EU ladder, they think there opponents frequently are to weak in order for them to get maximum efficiency out of their training time. As far as I heard is this problem is a lot greater in NA. You do not need to be a genius to realize that playing against players that are worse then yourself is not going to improve your skill level, specially in SC2 as it is a game which is really hard to improve in without good opponents.
I mean does not all EG players pretty much have SC2 as there full time job? Could they not live anywhere? I mean people study abroad for many years all the time, why cannot SC2 players do the same? Seems very inefficient to have the house in Arizona.
It does not necessarily need to be in Korea, as Korea I think is hard county to live/adept to in a more long term perspective.
Most players use Korea as bootcamp, they go in train hard and go away after 1-2 months. Further I think for some players like Idra, Korea might be bad. Cause Idra is the sort of player that do not handle loses very well and Idras skill level is highly related to his mental state rather then his actual max skill level.
Hell have house in northern EU instead. Make EU a hub for SC2 esport and make the EU ladder even more competitive. Good for foreign scene and thus good for Esport ^^ I guess the only real response I can think of is that we live in a globalized world. It really doesn't matter if your house is in Arizona, Korea, or Egypt. As long as you have a decent connection strength, you should be able to play on every server. NA to KR lag can be bad during peak KR hours, I won't doubt that. But you don't exactly plan owning a house based around that. Houses cost money. Not to mention if you wish to buy a house in a country, and then live there for years without end, you typically need to be a citizen of the country. But yeah, no one will buy a $200,000+ house in Europe just to make the European ladder have a higher EG presence.
Well I am not sure. I study at the university of Uppsala (north of Stockholm) and I recently finished my master degree there. Out of 160 students in my master program were 9 swedish. Meaning that 151 were from abroad. Mostly China, India and US but also countries like Iran and Nepal. Most of these people lived in Sweden for 2-3 years without any problems, not to mention PhD students that live here for 4-6 years. So it seems to be working very well for for university students at least.
And regarding the lags I guess they are fairly severe as both EU and NA players rarely play on the KR servers because of it. Also they apparently find it troubling enough to send their players to live in Korea frequently.
Sure there are some costs but you do not need to buy a house, you rent it. I mean a large house in Sweden somewhere close to a big city maybe cost like 1000-1500$ a month to rent. I think EG could afford that. Like my parents they rent out a house with maybe 100+ m2 that have 24mbit connection in the middle of nowhere, and I think the people that rent it pays like 800$ a month.
So no of course EG would never rent a house in EU just to improve the EU ladder. However I think renting a house and living in EU could be beneficial for EG. Improving the EU ladder and overall the foreign scene would just be a positive side effect.
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On July 26 2012 21:42 4ZakeN87 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 21:26 Chargelot wrote:On July 26 2012 21:19 4ZakeN87 wrote:
I wonder if EG should keep there gaming house in Arizona though. Like there is no doubt that they have many highly skilled/talent players but I think the amount of evidence pointing against that it is a bad to train in NA is starting to be overwhelming.
I mean Sase and Naniwa for instance complains a lot about the EU ladder, they think there opponents frequently are to weak in order for them to get maximum efficiency out of their training time. As far as I heard is this problem is a lot greater in NA. You do not need to be a genius to realize that playing against players that are worse then yourself is not going to improve your skill level, specially in SC2 as it is a game which is really hard to improve in without good opponents.
I mean does not all EG players pretty much have SC2 as there full time job? Could they not live anywhere? I mean people study abroad for many years all the time, why cannot SC2 players do the same? Seems very inefficient to have the house in Arizona.
It does not necessarily need to be in Korea, as Korea I think is hard county to live/adept to in a more long term perspective.
Most players use Korea as bootcamp, they go in train hard and go away after 1-2 months. Further I think for some players like Idra, Korea might be bad. Cause Idra is the sort of player that do not handle loses very well and Idras skill level is highly related to his mental state rather then his actual max skill level.
Hell have house in northern EU instead. Make EU a hub for SC2 esport and make the EU ladder even more competitive. Good for foreign scene and thus good for Esport ^^ I guess the only real response I can think of is that we live in a globalized world. It really doesn't matter if your house is in Arizona, Korea, or Egypt. As long as you have a decent connection strength, you should be able to play on every server. NA to KR lag can be bad during peak KR hours, I won't doubt that. But you don't exactly plan owning a house based around that. Houses cost money. Not to mention if you wish to buy a house in a country, and then live there for years without end, you typically need to be a citizen of the country. But yeah, no one will buy a $200,000+ house in Europe just to make the European ladder have a higher EG presence. Well I am not sure. I study at the university of Uppsala (north of Stockholm) and I recently finished my master degree there. Out of 160 students in my master program were 9 swedish. Meaning that 151 were from abroad. Mostly China, India and US but also countries like Iran and Nepal. Most of these people lived in Sweden for 2-3 years without any problems, not to mention PhD students that live here for 4-6 years. So it seems to be working very well for for university students at least. And regarding the lags I guess they are fairly severe as both EU and NA players rarely play on the KR servers because of it. Also they apparently find it troubling enough to send their players to live in Korea frequently. Sure there are some costs but you do not need to buy a house, you rent it. I mean a large house in Sweden somewhere close to a big city maybe cost like 1000-1500$ a month to rent. I think EG could afford that. Like my parents they rent out a house with maybe 100+ m2 that have 24mbit connection in the middle of nowhere, and I think the people that rent it pays like 800$ a month. So no of course EG would never rent a house in EU just to improve the EU ladder. However I think renting a house and living in EU could be beneficial for EG. Improving the EU ladder and overall the foreign scene would just be a positive side effect.
http://www.studyinsweden.se/Living-in-Sweden/Do-I-need-a-visa/
Swedish student visas for non-EU citizens, sign your name on some papers for EU-citizens.
I'm pretty sure none of EG are studying but Suppy, and he's staying in Berkeley, and none of EG heralds from a member state of the European Union. Student visas are a lot easier to get than work visas, which are both significantly easier to get than Swedish residence permits, which you require if you're staying in Sweden for longer than 3 months. Not to mention selling E-Sports to a Migration Board as a valid reason to stay in Sweden for 2-3 years would probably be difficult.
I'm sure most or all other members of the European Union have similar/the same laws regarding these things. It would be a nightmare on all levels, and this actually does seem like it's all about getting them onto the EU ladder/vs. EU players more often. There's probably better options for exposing the team to good Euro players more often.
If anything, having what pretty much amounts to THE gaming house in the USA means that when Europeans compete in tournaments, they could potentially spend time at the house in Arizona before the event, as Stephano did before MLG Spring Champs.
Getting them into contact with higher level European players is obviously a great idea, and a good goal. It's just an impractical way of accomplishing that goal.
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On July 26 2012 22:14 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 21:42 4ZakeN87 wrote:On July 26 2012 21:26 Chargelot wrote:On July 26 2012 21:19 4ZakeN87 wrote:
I wonder if EG should keep there gaming house in Arizona though. Like there is no doubt that they have many highly skilled/talent players but I think the amount of evidence pointing against that it is a bad to train in NA is starting to be overwhelming.
I mean Sase and Naniwa for instance complains a lot about the EU ladder, they think there opponents frequently are to weak in order for them to get maximum efficiency out of their training time. As far as I heard is this problem is a lot greater in NA. You do not need to be a genius to realize that playing against players that are worse then yourself is not going to improve your skill level, specially in SC2 as it is a game which is really hard to improve in without good opponents.
I mean does not all EG players pretty much have SC2 as there full time job? Could they not live anywhere? I mean people study abroad for many years all the time, why cannot SC2 players do the same? Seems very inefficient to have the house in Arizona.
It does not necessarily need to be in Korea, as Korea I think is hard county to live/adept to in a more long term perspective.
Most players use Korea as bootcamp, they go in train hard and go away after 1-2 months. Further I think for some players like Idra, Korea might be bad. Cause Idra is the sort of player that do not handle loses very well and Idras skill level is highly related to his mental state rather then his actual max skill level.
Hell have house in northern EU instead. Make EU a hub for SC2 esport and make the EU ladder even more competitive. Good for foreign scene and thus good for Esport ^^ I guess the only real response I can think of is that we live in a globalized world. It really doesn't matter if your house is in Arizona, Korea, or Egypt. As long as you have a decent connection strength, you should be able to play on every server. NA to KR lag can be bad during peak KR hours, I won't doubt that. But you don't exactly plan owning a house based around that. Houses cost money. Not to mention if you wish to buy a house in a country, and then live there for years without end, you typically need to be a citizen of the country. But yeah, no one will buy a $200,000+ house in Europe just to make the European ladder have a higher EG presence. Well I am not sure. I study at the university of Uppsala (north of Stockholm) and I recently finished my master degree there. Out of 160 students in my master program were 9 swedish. Meaning that 151 were from abroad. Mostly China, India and US but also countries like Iran and Nepal. Most of these people lived in Sweden for 2-3 years without any problems, not to mention PhD students that live here for 4-6 years. So it seems to be working very well for for university students at least. And regarding the lags I guess they are fairly severe as both EU and NA players rarely play on the KR servers because of it. Also they apparently find it troubling enough to send their players to live in Korea frequently. Sure there are some costs but you do not need to buy a house, you rent it. I mean a large house in Sweden somewhere close to a big city maybe cost like 1000-1500$ a month to rent. I think EG could afford that. Like my parents they rent out a house with maybe 100+ m2 that have 24mbit connection in the middle of nowhere, and I think the people that rent it pays like 800$ a month. So no of course EG would never rent a house in EU just to improve the EU ladder. However I think renting a house and living in EU could be beneficial for EG. Improving the EU ladder and overall the foreign scene would just be a positive side effect. http://www.studyinsweden.se/Living-in-Sweden/Do-I-need-a-visa/Swedish student visas for non-EU citizens, sign your name on some papers for EU-citizens. I'm pretty sure none of EG are studying but Suppy, and he's staying in Berkeley, and none of EG heralds from a member state of the European Union. Student visas are a lot easier to get than work visas, which are both significantly easier to get than Swedish residence permits, which you require if you're staying in Sweden for longer than 3 months. Not to mention selling E-Sports to a Migration Board as a valid reason to stay in Sweden for 2-3 years would probably be difficult. I'm sure most or all other members of the European Union have similar/the same laws regarding these things. It would be a nightmare on all levels, and this actually does seem like it's all about getting them onto the EU ladder/vs. EU players more often. There's probably better options for exposing the team to good Euro players more often. If anything, having what pretty much amounts to THE gaming house in the USA means that when Europeans compete in tournaments, they could potentially spend time at the house in Arizona before the event, as Stephano did before MLG Spring Champs. Getting them into contact with higher level European players is obviously a great idea, and a good goal. It's just an impractical way of accomplishing that goal.
Well they could marry Swedish girls, they seems to be very popular ^^
No but seriously I wonder how hard it is to have esport as a job in EU. My guess is no one knows as it has never been done before. But if you can show that you are sponsored by several major companies and earn a good salary out of it, would it really be that hard?
If you earn money and spend part of your earnings in Sweden/EU, why would it not be considered a job? I do not think that the migration board define what a "job" is, are they not mainly interested if you can provide for yourself/pay taxes? It is not like they are taking jobs either, if anything that are actually creating a new category of job and bringing in more money into EU/Sweden.
Regardless, I do not believe in the EG curse. I believe that the NA scene is dropping like a rock in the sea however. EG just happens to be the team with most exposure by far in NA, therefor it seems like there is a EG curse but it is actually a NA "curse". It seems like pretty much every SC2 player in NA is attached to this rock, and it is dropping to a point where there is not so much light anymore. So if I were EG I would look for ways to get of this thing, maybe a EU submarine? x)
Bringing in more good players to the house maybe could work to. I just think EG has to do something different cause what they are doing now does not seems to pay of that well considering the level of players they have in their roster.
By the way Chargelot, it is nice to have a balanced discussion on TL once in a while 
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But just because the team house is in NA doesn't mean they have to always play on NA, I don't know what's stopping them from playing on korea.
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On July 27 2012 01:27 hunts wrote:
But just because the team house is in NA doesn't mean they have to always play on NA, I don't know what's stopping them from playing on korea.
some of them do play on korea. they all have korean accounts and I know that I've seen Machine/DeMuslim/Incontrol playing on Korea.
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On July 27 2012 06:18 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 01:27 hunts wrote:
But just because the team house is in NA doesn't mean they have to always play on NA, I don't know what's stopping them from playing on korea. some of them do play on korea. they all have korean accounts and I know that I've seen Machine/DeMuslim/Incontrol playing on Korea.
They all have European accounts too. I know Demuslim at least has been #1 GM on both NA and EU at the same time.
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On July 26 2012 09:41 Apollo_Shards wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 02:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
EG are the most successful non Korean team. I don't understand where this bullshit about bad results comes from. CERTAINLY not in team leagues.
No one cares about team leagues not called GSTL in Sc2.
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On July 27 2012 09:30 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 09:41 Apollo_Shards wrote:On July 26 2012 02:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
EG are the most successful non Korean team. I don't understand where this bullshit about bad results comes from. CERTAINLY not in team leagues. No one cares about team leagues not called GSTL in Sc2.
Well GSTL is the big one, but you can't count out IPL TAC, the little brother of the premier teamleague duo.
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On July 27 2012 09:33 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 09:30 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 26 2012 09:41 Apollo_Shards wrote:On July 26 2012 02:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
EG are the most successful non Korean team. I don't understand where this bullshit about bad results comes from. CERTAINLY not in team leagues. No one cares about team leagues not called GSTL in Sc2. Well GSTL is the big one, but you can't count out IPL TAC, the little brother of the premier teamleague duo.
Meh, now that it's LAN finals it might become a bigger deal than it was.
Realistically thought what matters is performances in MLG, Dreamhack, IPL, GSL, NASL, Assembly, IEM, WCS etc.. I.E Individual leagues.
This isn't Brood War, team leagues are a nice distraction but teams live and die by their performance in individual leagues. In terms of individual league performance EG has done way better than any other foreign team throughout Sc2.
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Yes, yes they all have Korean and EU SC2 accounts, of course they do. But, EG apparently pay there players to go and train in Korea every now and then. I guess this is not a payment EG does cause they enjoy to waste money but rather because it has a purpose.
The purpose being that you train a lot more efficient in for instance Korea then you do when you practice from US to Korea.
<--- which is my point.
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On July 27 2012 09:50 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 09:33 Bagration wrote:On July 27 2012 09:30 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 26 2012 09:41 Apollo_Shards wrote:On July 26 2012 02:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
EG are the most successful non Korean team. I don't understand where this bullshit about bad results comes from. CERTAINLY not in team leagues. No one cares about team leagues not called GSTL in Sc2. Well GSTL is the big one, but you can't count out IPL TAC, the little brother of the premier teamleague duo. Meh, now that it's LAN finals it might become a bigger deal than it was. Realistically thought what matters is performances in MLG, Dreamhack, IPL, GSL, NASL, Assembly, IEM, WCS etc.. I.E Individual leagues. This isn't Brood War, team leagues are a nice distraction but teams live and die by their performance in individual leagues. In terms of individual league performance EG has done way better than any other foreign team throughout Sc2.
Millenium Mouz
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On July 27 2012 09:30 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 09:41 Apollo_Shards wrote:On July 26 2012 02:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
EG are the most successful non Korean team. I don't understand where this bullshit about bad results comes from. CERTAINLY not in team leagues. No one cares about team leagues not called GSTL in Sc2.
...
So all the viewers TAC gets is just sympathy views or what?
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EG has to be the sc2 team with the best marketing or smth, shitton of sponsors.
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On July 28 2012 01:58 Apollo_Shards wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 09:30 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 26 2012 09:41 Apollo_Shards wrote:On July 26 2012 02:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
EG are the most successful non Korean team. I don't understand where this bullshit about bad results comes from. CERTAINLY not in team leagues. No one cares about team leagues not called GSTL in Sc2. ... So all the viewers TAC gets is just sympathy views or what?
Or even the KSL, which isn't BIG, but it is FUN.
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Just watched Inside The Game and the EG members didnt shout out Raid Call as a sponser? iNcontroL even said "brave move with sponser shoutouts atm" when Demuslim said them. Have Raid Call stopped their sponser of EG? (I couldn't find any posts about this so figured this was the best place?) Appologise in advance if this is the wrong place to be talking about this.
Interested to find out if anyone knows more, thanks.
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EPT
