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Ladder-Balance-Data - Page 5
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CrY.
Japan97 Posts
You know who you are. | ||
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Zeon0
Austria2995 Posts
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 11 2012 06:30 nkr wrote: So... are these stats a product of imbalance or metagame? Neither? The data used is very broad and has to many factors. As it is not based on games, but active accounts, there are an overwhelming number of factors that could be in effect. I don't disgree with the idea, but the execution is not focused enough to provide any real findings. | ||
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Zrana
United Kingdom698 Posts
On July 11 2012 06:30 nkr wrote: So... are these stats a product of imbalance or metagame? Ah, but is there a difference? | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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ThePlayer33
Australia2378 Posts
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
On July 11 2012 06:26 CrY. wrote: MMR is the best representation of data he could have possibly gathered for this particular project..I honestly think there are a lot of angry people here who are reading what they want to read and making a lot of silly moot points. You know who you are. ^^ On July 11 2012 06:28 Zeon0 wrote: u really should get a Quality Poster Star I think i collected to many "enemys" for this .... check my posthistory ^^ On July 11 2012 06:40 Itsmedudeman wrote: Is it possible to show your results for specific matchups? PvZ, TvZ, and TvP? I feel like without that this data could be slightly flawed. Also, are you weighing certain matchups more often than others because of race distribution? Or do you have an even number of matchups when you take this data? NO. i look at race only not at single games or matchups. On July 11 2012 06:42 ThePlayer33 wrote: i think do masters only as a subgroup, GM as a subgroup, and the same for korea only. master would be possible with more data. But korean i dont see. I just have to less users on KR server. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
Any plans to retroactively gather people's race? | ||
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
On July 11 2012 06:50 InfCereal wrote: Glad you decided to release these, skeldark. Any plans to retroactively gather people's race? would need an bot for that and spam the webserver but technical no problem. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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ZappaSC
Denmark215 Posts
Think about it: TvZ: Marine splitting versus surrounding and fungals. TvP: Late game, terran has to #1 move back from storms #2 focus fire vikings, #3 EMP templars. Versus... storming. (and maybe FF) Dont get me wrong, its not that there is TONS of different things Z and P can do too, but the CONSEQUENSES for failing this micro is a lot more severe for terran, they often flat out loose! While mistakes for the other races is much less punished. Yes i play terran, i kinda had to get it out there =) thats my 2 cents on why the data looks like it does. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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riff
United States113 Posts
On July 11 2012 02:17 Chill wrote: Agreed. The whole basis for this project is defeated by one realistic (in my eyes) claim that is dismissed. Also, why do we care about average balance? If Zerg is easier than Terran from Bronze - Masters, does it really matter to the members of this forum? I know the mindset around here is to ignore balance outside of Code-S and pro tournaments, but even though average balance is insignificant, it is not uninteresting. At least I find it very interesting as a casual competitor. I'll never experience top-level balance and I rarely watch tournaments, so really all that's left for me is average balance. Maybe that's why I find it more interesting than most. Also it's refreshing to see some hard data instead of just whining. I think this forum should encourage that kind of data-driven analysis. | ||
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Niazger
Germany41 Posts
If due to a patch you lose more when playing a certain race your MMR should drop until you get back to an average of 50% winrate all three matchups combined. So lets say someone has 55% TvT, 55% TvP and 40% TvZ winrate he averages out at 50% winrate (like he would with the current ladder system). Now a patch happens and TvZ becomes much harder (lets say 30% winrate) what would happen is that the players MMR would drop therefore increasing his winrates in all 3 match-ups because he plays weaker players. You could just see how 'balanced' the game is by looking at the differences in winrates between the match-ups. If one matchup is favoring a certain race what would happen is that you get a lot of people that have a lower winrate in that matchup and a higher in the other two since theyre kind of artificially doomed to play players below their level even though they might be able to win 50% or more vs players of higher mmr. | ||
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pdxBagel
United States5 Posts
On July 11 2012 04:45 Jarree wrote: I find it sad that a community member must do these calculations and post them. Then Dustin B. just says in an interview that everything in every ladder and server is 50-50 and in winrates in every matchup early game late game what ever still 50-50. Then he says they are monitoring a situation where last month there was a 0,5% imbalance. And everything without zero facts. I hope you get more data (masters+). Presenting clear facts based on data is never wrong. Everybody can then make up their own mind about what's the cause and balance and so on. Keep doing what you're doing. This is so true.... Blizzard obviously has access to this information. Instead it takes someone to reverse engineer and datamine to get some real information. Hearing statements like that from DB compared to the data available just screams incomeptence. Kudos to the OP for the hard work though. | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
-Terran is statistic significant underpowered. -Zerg is statistic significant overpowered. -Protoss in possible overpowered but not significant. ggwp, nothing more to add | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On July 11 2012 06:26 skeldark wrote: Yes i play, i'm not GM. But as long as i have 50% winrate and games are fun it's all that matters for non-pro player like me. you play sc2? you are korean grandmaster? if yes and no. Would you like it to have EU grandmaster skill and play against bronce guys because you play the wrong race? I extrapolate to show your, your extrapolation. This game is not for pro player! this game is for everyone! If this game would be only for pro players than , i would not be here  Btw most people ignore how close the numbers actually are. Of course it would be stupid if you were losing to some 20apm guy, but the game is pretty good balanced and it's not the case. At mid master (me) and below you can't really tell your opponents skill, since your play is covered in mistakes and your opponents too. | ||
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ZjiublingZ
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
But everyone needs to keep in mind this reflects METAGAME balance. I look forward to, if OP or someone else can keep this thing updated, seeing how new Metagame changes effect this balance. I would love to have seen the effect of Infestor/Ling vs T, or the 1/1/1, or "Stephano Style" Roach Max vs Protoss, and all the other crazy meta game changes we have had. | ||
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
UPDATE After 3 hour calculation: Removed some broken accounts Removed double accounts Removed random players Removed All accounts with less than 1000 MMR ( bronce silver) Removed all data without race information Left accounts 5590 Result: Derivation very high because of low account count But im still to 99,31 % secure Terran is underpowered -30.09 Dont forget this are only 2 average wins on ladder I will wait for more data and perhaps collect the racedata of the other 30k accounts before i make a new run | ||
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