EPTOne storm in bw kills all your drones. Deal with it.
in sc2 easy mode you need 2 or 3 atleast and they might get low health. LOL
Modified Movement Test - Page 15
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
There will obviously be balance shifts when gameplay values are changed. Nobody is claiming otherwise. This thread is about the effect these changes have on the clarity and spectator-friendliness of SC2. | ||
|
wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
One storm in bw kills all your drones. Deal with it. in sc2 easy mode you need 2 or 3 atleast and they might get low health. LOL | ||
|
scph
Korea (South)262 Posts
On July 04 2012 07:30 Zorgaz wrote: I don't think terran would benefit much more then the other races. Sure it would make it easier against AoE for bioballs (AoE would need some buffing). But it would also make it so that Protoss and Zerg balls take less damage from AoE. And also Marine/Marauder balls are most efficient clumped up as tightly as possible against everything that isn't AoE say pure speedlings or Gateway units. I want to see a game between two pros trying this out so bad :3. Also all you people saying this will take micro out of the game?! I think the opposite. I do agree, but in a real game against any MM ball, it would be ridiculous if there was no AoE. There will always be AoE and therefore, MM balls will never be clumped up as tight as possible, rather, they'd be best spread as much as possible while upkeeping as much dps as possible. I can see MM balls being clumped very tightly in early stages of a match, but the movement modification doesn't appear to have significant effects in early small engagements. Regardless of the change, Protoss forcefield continues to mess up unit positioning, so the change doesn't significantly affect them much more. They just might have to put down more forcefields than before. There's not really any powerful AoE that Zerg and Terran can throw at Protoss anyway. Fungal is a joke damage wise, I mean it does serve as an anti-micro but protoss armies are best if concentrated in a ball against Z anyway. Terran AoE? Protoss doesn't normally spread units because they have forcefield to alter and cut off enemy positioning already, so EMP continues to hit the same amount of units. And zerg vs AoE with the new change...They still get hit hard by FF and colossi/storm, so there's not much change there, no matter how spread ground units are. Z isn't about unit spread and movement, it's about engaging in the right places and at the right angles. Possibly there is a benefit for zerg ground vs tank AoE, but I haven't really played enough to see any significant effects. Speedlings still kill tanks and banes still go for the bio ball. The problem is, most of zerg arsenal is melee or close range, so the spread eventually clumps up when they're attacking anyway. On July 04 2012 08:00 Darneck wrote: He didn't as that's not what would happen with a radius increase on AOE damage Then all his points would become invalid if there's a radius increase on AoE damage. | ||
|
Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
On July 04 2012 07:55 zezamer wrote: You managed to summarize why this would make the game more ezmode  for diamond and below, sure it would be easy. for people who play competitively, this will make it harder for all races seeing that lings will be running around 1 at a time, banelings will only detonate one at a time (unless you clump them up which would be stupid vs anything but bio zvt), protoss will actually have to micro as chargelots and stalkers will out run all toss tech units without either being on seperate hotkeys or ctrl + right click and manually moing them back. i dont see that as "ezmode" at all. | ||
|
Darneck
Sweden1394 Posts
On July 04 2012 08:02 scph wrote: Then all his points would become invalid if there's a radius increase on AoE damage. Fair enough but I hope and take it that you understood what I meant ^^ It wouldn't become ezmode with an increase in AOE damage and radius | ||
|
pzea469
United States1520 Posts
| ||
|
GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
| ||
|
zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
On July 04 2012 08:04 LgNKami wrote: for diamond and below, sure it would be easy. for people who play competitively, this will make it harder for all races seeing that lings will be running around 1 at a time, banelings will only detonate one at a time (unless you clump them up which would be stupid vs anything but bio zvt), protoss will actually have to micro as chargelots and stalkers will out run all toss tech units without either being on seperate hotkeys or ctrl + right click and manually moing them back. i dont see that as "ezmode" at all. Good points | ||
|
Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
| ||
|
NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On July 04 2012 06:19 ptrpb wrote: the change would undoubtedly improve the game eh? how do you figure that? because it worked well for BW right? like i said, what about people who like the clumping and have gotten used to playing with it? it's a big fuck you to them. Yes! A big fuck you. That is correct. | ||
|
phrenzy
United Kingdom478 Posts
Just like a patch with all the theory crafting and debate its only testing that will really show how viable this is. I would like to see a pro-game, all matchups in this. | ||
|
marconi
Croatia220 Posts
| ||
|
topschutter
Netherlands93 Posts
| ||
|
Yoshi Kirishima
United States10382 Posts
However did they consider choosing whether or not to ball up...? like this xD So if they want to ball up and move easy they can do that. If they are pro/have good micro and split up armies before engaging, that's cool too! But right now you have to split it up so much or else once you engage it'll all ball up again >.< EDIT: This mod is a little extreme. But why not do something in the middle? As seen in the example, even if you move like 10 matrices, everything is balled up again! Blizzard, we like to move around big armies easy, but it's way too hard to keep them split up. So why not have them still ball up, but much slower? So that over time, they would ball up again, but if you want to split the army you can -- and if you want to ball it back up, you simply move them into the center ;O | ||
|
Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
On July 04 2012 08:05 Darneck wrote: Fair enough but I hope and take it that you understood what I meant ^^ It wouldn't become ezmode with an increase in AOE damage and radius to be completely honest, the only buff that would seem logical to AOE is a radius buff. a damage buff would be ridiculous considering how much damage most aoe units already do. if you buff the range of aoe units (not collosus or archons but fungal, storm, vortex, etc...), then you can deal with spread units alot easier (lings, mutas, marines, etc..) but you will still have to make good use of the aoe spells seeing that even if the units are already spread, i personally would spread een more if i knew aoe units were there simply to minimize the damage done even more. this would also force players to either hide their tech, or come up with better ways of managing your aoe units to maximize their damage. it would also mean that there would be less need to mass aoe units such as collosus, banelings, tanks, and templar meaning that you can afford to invest in other tech paths as well as focus on getting upgrades faster. there will also be less turtling (at least for terran and toss) seeing that for terran, you cant just sit behind a wall with 5-6 tanks and be fine until you decide when you want to attack which would mean that you would have to attack more often. you will also be using more mineral heavy units early and mid game meaning you will need more bases but you will be forced to defend them with smaller armies (especially vs terran) seeing that you cant simply clean up 16 unmicroed marines with 1 storm, a fungal, or a couple of banelings. you will need to multitask. I feel that this modified movement would go perfect with the less resource maps that was discussed not to long ago. ^ this is all just based on my opinion though. by no means do i claim to be an expert at sc2 as all i do is ladder alot. | ||
|
Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
On July 04 2012 08:08 pzea469 wrote: If anyone knows how to contact important people in the community, maybe they can be encouraged to have a test match or two and upload the videos on youtube. Please, encourage people like Day9, Artosis, ect to not only theorycraft but to actually play a good match or 2 and post the video plus thoughts. If you watch streams or the daily, try and encourage the player through chat to try out mmDaybreak vs a practice partner. I'm thinking that someone should also take a look at unit collision and spacing as well. I'm not good with that kind of stuff. Also it seems like sometimes small units like lings dont' really keep their formation on some move commands. We also need a map that has features this can benefit from (larger battlegrounds). I can try my hand at it, but I'm a piece of shit at map-making. The real next step is to get this feature working the way we intend it to, and then look to modifying unit values, gameplay. I see that as the real next step. This should be viewed as the stepping stone to achieveing a greater objective, the implementation of more space controlling untis/improving what AOE we have now. | ||
|
Darneck
Sweden1394 Posts
On July 04 2012 08:23 topschutter wrote: To be honest I like it the way it is way more then the video shows. Now it is something you need to do, make sure ur army is not together. The game would be easier with that MM, which is not a good thing. I think it tells alot that the video maker does not watch starcraft 2 matches I think it is amazing to see MKP split his marines.If you change it terrans can move across the map with all marines and tanks in a perfect position, how is that fun to watch? As a player you have to make sure you pick the right fight and set your units accordingly. The marines against banelings is just a example, I am not saying it would make terran imbalanced at all, but I want to show how it changes the game. The same advantage occurs with zerg and protoss. Also I do not get why this is a thread when he does not have tested it in one single game, because it may look fun but it changes alot in match ups. Another one that didn't read the thread posts I take it. Yes, it's highly possible that is changes a lot of match ups (that's kind of the point with changes, to change things) and no it doesn't make it easier by having your army presplit all the time. The AOE radius would be larger which would force further splitting away from the units and if you choose to walk with your whole army in a line over the whole map you could just get flanked on one side and basically have them wiped out before your units even reaches them if that's how "safe" you want to play it by presplitting. And this still isn't some drastic omgz auto super split thing. You can still clump all your units and mess with completely with misclicks | ||
|
topschutter
Netherlands93 Posts
On July 04 2012 08:05 Darneck wrote: Fair enough but I hope and take it that you understood what I meant ^^ It wouldn't become ezmode with an increase in AOE damage and radius I don't get this, so on a choke AOE just kills everything because of higher radius and/or higher damage? That only solves things on open field. Also people saying that it makes the players split even more: wtf, so you split against the deathball (what is the problem), by making players split more... just let them split the deathball. | ||
|
Darneck
Sweden1394 Posts
On July 04 2012 08:31 topschutter wrote: I don't get this, so on a choke AOE just kills everything because of higher radius and/or higher damage? That only solves things on open field. Also people saying that it makes the players split even more: wtf, so you split against the deathball (what is the problem), by making players split more... just let them split the deathball. AOE should be stronger in general, it has been nerfed to the ground because of the deathball basically and it should be possible to hold choke points more effectively and have a defenders advantage with AOE spells. And this changes battles in so many more ways than just AOE but I really can't be bothered to bring it up for the 10th time because people never read the thread before they post in it. The maps also shouldn't be looking the same way with these changes | ||
|
topschutter
Netherlands93 Posts
On July 04 2012 08:34 Darneck wrote: AOE should be stronger in general, it has been nerfed to the ground because of the deathball basically and it should be possible to hold choke points more effectively and have a defenders advantage with AOE spells. And this changes battles in so many more ways than just AOE but I really can't be bothered to bring it up for the 10th time because people never read the thread before they post in it. The maps also shouldn't be looking the same way with these changes First of all you want me to read 15 pages off comments? Yes, but the chokes don't need to be too good, otherwise you can't attack with advantage. But you are just saying: yes alot has to change if you use it.... make a whole new game just for one new feature. But please explain to me how it is fun to watch a whole army move across the map with awesome positioning? MKP can then just quit because his APM is useless. And please don't say he can still micro units further away because of changes. You can't just go change the whole game. Oh and next thread I will look at all the comments to see if you posted -.- | ||
|
Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
On July 04 2012 08:39 topschutter wrote: First of all you want me to read 15 pages off comments? Yes, but the chokes don't need to be too good, otherwise you can't attack with advantage. But you are just saying: yes alot has to change if you use it.... make a whole new game just for one new feature. But please explain to me how it is fun to watch a whole army move across the map with awesome positioning? MKP can then just quit because his APM is useless. And please don't say he can still micro units further away because of changes. You can't just go change the whole game. Oh and next thread I will look at all the comments to see if you posted -.- not true. Players like MKP, MMA, MVP, hell just about all korean terrans can multitask like gods (ESPECIALLY the BW players. im sure they would enjoy this mod). this mod will make it so that you have to be able to do other things besides build a 150/200 3 collosus army on 2 base and win (i.e the squirtle build). | ||
| ||
