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On June 16 2012 07:26 xsnac wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 07:21 BeholdOblivion wrote:On June 16 2012 07:18 xsnac wrote:On June 16 2012 07:17 HeroMystic wrote:On June 16 2012 07:05 xsnac wrote:
whats the point playing TVP anymore if warhound counters mechanical , and battle helion counts zealots ? how you deal with it ? i cant find an awnser Probably a combination of Stargate tech and Gateway units. right . he counters with marines and smash the GG button  How do I counter a unit that I've never played against yet?! I feel for you man... is called theorycraft . and the concept is there , warhound counter's mechanical , battlehelion counter's zealot . what else does toss have ? stargate ? marine counter stargate and since you need a drain for all the minerals ul have since ul be using all gas on factory army the only awnser that pops in my mind is marines . Can you find me a way to beat this composition THEORYCRAFTING OBVIOUSLY ? Thanks .
This theorycrafting is bad because you're thinking in absolutes and expect the Terran army to have everything. If we're going Mech, we will not have 3/3 Combat Shield Stim Marines to counter Stargate tech. We would have to use a combination of Vikings and Thors.
Also, Hellions are 100 Minerals only...
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On June 16 2012 07:26 xsnac wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 07:21 BeholdOblivion wrote:On June 16 2012 07:18 xsnac wrote:On June 16 2012 07:17 HeroMystic wrote:On June 16 2012 07:05 xsnac wrote:
whats the point playing TVP anymore if warhound counters mechanical , and battle helion counts zealots ? how you deal with it ? i cant find an awnser Probably a combination of Stargate tech and Gateway units. right . he counters with marines and smash the GG button How do I counter a unit that I've never played against yet?! I feel for you man... is called theorycraft . and the concept is there , warhound counter's mechanical , battlehelion counter's zealot . what else does toss have ? stargate ? marine counter stargate and since you need a drain for all the minerals ul have since ul be using all gas on factory army the only awnser that pops in my mind is marines . Can you find me a way to beat this composition THEORYCRAFTING OBVIOUSLY ? Thanks .
Dude, you are right. Be sure to let Blizzard know on the first day the HoTS beta comes out, so they'll write an article about how you were the first person to bring the broken matchup to their attention. And let me know the next time you see a terran go mech with enough barracks to "dump minerals" into. (MKP not withstanding)
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widow mines on air units is a bit over the top imo especially when you see mutalisk play disapear vs terran :S
IMO make is friendly fire and only ground.
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
On June 16 2012 07:26 xsnac wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 07:21 BeholdOblivion wrote:On June 16 2012 07:18 xsnac wrote:On June 16 2012 07:17 HeroMystic wrote:On June 16 2012 07:05 xsnac wrote:
whats the point playing TVP anymore if warhound counters mechanical , and battle helion counts zealots ? how you deal with it ? i cant find an awnser Probably a combination of Stargate tech and Gateway units. right . he counters with marines and smash the GG button How do I counter a unit that I've never played against yet?! I feel for you man... is called theorycraft . and the concept is there , warhound counter's mechanical , battlehelion counter's zealot . what else does toss have ? stargate ? marine counter stargate and since you need a drain for all the minerals ul have since ul be using all gas on factory army the only awnser that pops in my mind is marines . Can you find me a way to beat this composition THEORYCRAFTING OBVIOUSLY ? Thanks .
What do you think hellions cost? It's 100 minerals dude, you won't have thousands of spare minerals for marines.
widow mines on air units is a bit over the top imo especially when you see mutalisk play disapear vs terran :S
IMO make is friendly fire and only ground.
If the widow mine friendly fires it's going to be useless. Blink stalkers, burrowed roaches (not related to my next point), charge lots, it's the same reason tanks are not as good as they used to be as so much stuff is so good at closing the distance to them.
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On June 16 2012 07:26 xsnac wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 07:21 BeholdOblivion wrote:On June 16 2012 07:18 xsnac wrote:On June 16 2012 07:17 HeroMystic wrote:On June 16 2012 07:05 xsnac wrote:
whats the point playing TVP anymore if warhound counters mechanical , and battle helion counts zealots ? how you deal with it ? i cant find an awnser Probably a combination of Stargate tech and Gateway units. right . he counters with marines and smash the GG button How do I counter a unit that I've never played against yet?! I feel for you man... is called theorycraft . and the concept is there , warhound counter's mechanical , battlehelion counter's zealot . what else does toss have ? stargate ? marine counter stargate and since you need a drain for all the minerals ul have since ul be using all gas on factory army the only awnser that pops in my mind is marines . Can you find me a way to beat this composition THEORYCRAFTING OBVIOUSLY ? Thanks .
Then harass and destroy your opponent's economy. You have the oracle, Warp Prism, Mass Recall on a nexus, 25 energy a second regen for any unit/building, etc. Protoss players are going to have to start playing the same way Zerg and Terran have had to play against Protoss in WoL, which seems perfectly fine to me.
It's likely going to be like TvP where you have to harass your opponent and do damage to their economy, or ZvP where you have to prevent the protoss from taking a third.
Honestly who knows? We haven't played the game, we don't know how drastic the game will change. Outright saying " Oh this unit counters this means you auto lose" Is a silly thing to say for something you have never experimented with.
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Overall, I'm pleased with how HoTS is shaping up. Interesting concepts that should be a lot of fun once they are balanced properly.
Can't wait to turtle up to 200/200 unkillable deathball and show Toss what it feels like!
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On June 15 2012 06:03 KonohaFlash wrote:
This could allow you to have someone perform a rush, and then allow the A.I to play it out again from a replay so you can practice against defending the rush. Sounds very cool and exciting!
Obviously this will not be 1:1 as there is no way A.I can say micro like MKP, but this sounds like it has a lot of potential. A.I. can micro 100x better. It would probably be difficult to do in certain terrain situations, but can still be done, and has been done on open terrain.
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On June 16 2012 10:11 SnipedSoul wrote:
Overall, I'm pleased with how HoTS is shaping up. Interesting concepts that should be a lot of fun once they are balanced properly.
Can't wait to turtle up to 200/200 unkillable deathball and show Toss what it feels like!
That was Brood War for like 8 years lol :D Nothing new for most of us toss.
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On June 16 2012 07:41 Arush wrote:
widow mines on air units is a bit over the top imo especially when you see mutalisk play disapear vs terran :S
IMO make is friendly fire and only ground.
We'll see. I mean if there are three of five mines around the mineral line, three or five mutas catch those mines, you send those mutas away, continue with the rest and let the terran make more mines, investing money and factory time. When the terran wants to have mines everywhere mutas could hit, he will need quite a lot of them which detracts from his offensive possibilities. Plus, you can let mine-infested mutas explode above terran units (workers), assuming they do friendly fire. Me and my mutas aren't really scared yet. ^^
Edit: Sorry, I overread the friendly fire part. So they don't do ff? I thought they would? Do we know?
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Whatever happened to that Terran thresher or crusher or whatever thing that was an AOE denial unit. lol.
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The groups thing sounds really cool. Maybe it will help grow some of the local communities.
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: For example on the Zerg side, the only change we have on the early game is the Overlord creep. That ability got moved from Lair to Evolution Chamber. So we're going to see a little bit there, but probably not too much.
Holy shit, that could change a lot for zerg, spinerushing, making building expansions for the opponent really though
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On June 16 2012 18:31 Probe1 wrote:
Whatever happened to that Terran thresher or crusher or whatever thing that was an AOE denial unit. lol.
The shredder was scrapped because testers found that it was stupidly OP because you could just drop a couple in your opponent's base and "shred" all of his workers.
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In my opinion the Mothership should keep the cloaking ability instead of giving it to the Oracle. It will be very silly to see a tiny unit like the Oracle cloaking an army of Colossus. Can you imagine an Oracle cloaking a Mothership??
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I dont really get the point of the widow mine over hunter seeker missile.
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On June 15 2012 06:10 HeroMystic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 06:06 0neder wrote:
.....does he know spider mines were free in brood war? try balancing them another way, or better yet make the hellion faster with moving shot and give it to that unit, or the reaper. Keep in mind Spider Mines never attacked air, nor had a detonation time of 10 seconds. I don't really like the idea of giving it to the Reaper because it doesn't go well with Mech, and I definitely don't like the idea of making the Hellion a Wannabe Vulture. If any unit should have this as an ability, it should be a new unit that regenerates it's stock overtime.
Also you didn't have any control on the mines. You just deployed them with your vultures the AI did all the rest. The widow mines can be deployed exactly where you want and you probably can redeploy them in other locations.
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Australia1654 Posts
On June 16 2012 22:26 EdSlyB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 06:10 HeroMystic wrote:On June 15 2012 06:06 0neder wrote:
.....does he know spider mines were free in brood war? try balancing them another way, or better yet make the hellion faster with moving shot and give it to that unit, or the reaper. Keep in mind Spider Mines never attacked air, nor had a detonation time of 10 seconds. I don't really like the idea of giving it to the Reaper because it doesn't go well with Mech, and I definitely don't like the idea of making the Hellion a Wannabe Vulture. If any unit should have this as an ability, it should be a new unit that regenerates it's stock overtime. Also you didn't have any control on the mines. You just deployed them with your vultures the AI did all the rest. The widow mines can be deployed exactly where you want and you probably can redeploy them in other locations.
The thing is, you had so many vultures, you didn't really need to redeploy. You could just shoot your own mines, lay more mines elsewhere.
And AI controlling the mine was not actually much of a problem. It gave Protoss enough trouble defusing mines without observers.
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sigh, these ppl dont seem to understand so much freaking obvious stuff:
..........Widow Mines
.................yes, it has been repeatedly stated that they do ff, but only on the plane of the unit they attach to (if mined muta goes over workers and mine goes off, workers ok)
................if they hit ANY ONE UNIT EXCEPTING A FEW THAT YOU CAN JUST NOT TARGET, EVEN IF THEY DONT SPLASH ANYTHING, THEY ARE COST-EFFECTIVE (notice, this makes them utterly useless for worker harass)
...............they are not a copy paste of the baneling, u moron, they are a vaguely related unit that has an utterly different design/stats/mechanics/uses
...............the point of them is that they weaken big deathballs and pushes because either you go out of your way to bring both detection AND a 7-RANGE UNIT with you and carefully tiptoe forward sniping all the mines (and that takes a ton of time and investment for that push, giving the terran a TON of time to prepare for the push) or you go ahead and get mined and separate out the mined units, in all cases except marines/lings (which, again, you can avoid targeting by turning off autocast on the targeting ability) the mines trade favorably and also take up the attention of the pushing player
DB and others have repeatedly stated that asymmetrical design is making it so all races have ways to solve a problem but those ways are different for each race with some parallels, so saying that they are "breaking the asymmetrical balance" when they "even the playing field in some way" by, say, giving Zerg Overseers at evo (and I have found no citations for that anywhere..., only for ovie creep spread being there) is missing the point, that actually would differentiate the races more because zerg would get their mobile/flying detection very early on whereas protoss mobile detection has a moderately high tech requirement and terran mobile flying detection has a very high tech requirement, previously both zerg and protoss have a moderately high tech requirement.
One question about all the tank whining: Why in the world don't they move tank damage back up to 60 or 70 in HotS? RIght now they are not that impressive against almost all units and HotS is very likely to give each race several strong counters to them, wouldn't it be helpful if blizz wants to improve mech to buff tank damage so all these tank counters dont drive it out of the game completely?
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On June 15 2012 06:10 HeroMystic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 06:06 0neder wrote:
.....does he know spider mines were free in brood war? try balancing them another way, or better yet make the hellion faster with moving shot and give it to that unit, or the reaper. Keep in mind Spider Mines never attacked air, nor had a detonation time of 10 seconds. I don't really like the idea of giving it to the Reaper because it doesn't go well with Mech, and I definitely don't like the idea of making the Hellion a Wannabe Vulture. If any unit should have this as an ability, it should be a new unit that regenerates it's stock overtime.
I like widow mines, first thing I thought was how awesome it will be not only for map control, but static d. Imagine if one goes off on a mutaball harassing your base, and will also be good to plant just one at your expos and main in tvp just to take care of oracles.
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EPT
