On June 10 2012 08:49 MaK UK wrote: I dont understand why everyone is hating on the warhound??
It's a siege line breaker so 1A suits its role. Its fast which lets it close siege tank range quickly, with the addition of its main gun being really powerful and shoots fast. It seems like the new go to unit for packing a punch through a turtle player.
Also the design isn't that bad, don't see why people hate it, i don't think the old BW Goliath model would suit what its role is, unless they beefed it up and stuck the same cannon on it!
I won't even say anything about the model, because I'm fucking certain that horrid thing won't even make it to the beta.
But design-wise, nobody wants a 1A unit. That shouldn't suit anything's role, and it ruins the positional feel of mech from BW that everyone's been after. Also, having an anti-mechanical specialist in a game where one race is entirely bio just feels bad.
On June 10 2012 08:04 SarcasmMonster wrote: New info on Nydus Worms:
No, the nydus worm didn’t look quite ready for being shown today. The art was super rough, the art guys were super rushed into getting something done and it didn’t hit. It was really bad. We had only temp stuff, we didn’t get the chance to do anything. We’re still very passionate about the idea, it’s still in the build and when we launch a beta it will most certainly be there unless we feel awful about it but I don’t think we will.
So there are two new nydus worm that you can make from the nydus network. One is a nydus worm that spews creep in a direction, quite a distance right now so you can create a creep highway and go wherever you want to go. And the second is a nydus worm that you can spawn and attack enemy building only, no units. So you can use that when the mutalisk raid gets shut down which it often does: there are too many mutalisks on the map, the blink stalkers are out, the photon cannons are in play, maybe the thors and the widow mines are out. Then there are no more mutalisks and the zerg raiding just ends. In this case, the raiding will be able to continue. You can’t kill workers with it but potentially you can kill key pylons, damage or kill tech labs, stuff like that.
And there’s still the regular nydus worm so there are three worms in total that can be produced.
On June 10 2012 07:47 teamhozac wrote: Ummm I think its safe to say Terran is getting shit on as usual... We get one new unit and one unit that can now transform (probably will require a 200/200 upgrade), whoopie fun fun
and another new unit and a reaper remake and and battle hellions dont require an upgrade at all.
I can't be the only person who realizes that the Reaper remake will be entirely useless against the new Queen (hell, even 3 of them in the battle report didn't do anything) and worthless against Protoss for essentially the same reason they're worthless now: 1 Stalker counters any number of them.
No you're not the Reaper is made even worse than he currently is in every MU other then TvT where he'll be a pain in the ass. 7 Range is more than Marines in a Bunker which means Gasless FE builds would be dead since any build without techlab rax staight up dies :O
Yeah man those gauss pistols really tear down bunkers, it's not like repair can counter their low DPS vs armored and the marines will zone out the reapers from hitting the SCVs with good positioning.
Lol what? The reapers will outrange marines in a bunker, thats the point. Even if you repair the reapers can just move around the bunker, and how is a range 5 marine supposed to "zone out" a range 7 reaper that also has a speed advantage?
Do I have to spell this out for you? You place a bunker or two next to your mineral line. If the reapers shoot it, you repair it. If they move forward to hit the SCV on the other side, your range *6* marines with the +1 bunker increase fuck them up. You might still lose a couple harvesters but that's the price you pay for doing a greedy gasless build against an opponent who went for better tech.
Reaper expand into more Reapers has the expo up ~10 seconds later ...
But with less harvesters and bank. You can't just spend 75 minerals on a refinery and lose mineral mining time on the 3 SCVs needed to get gas, drop more on a tech lab, and come out with the same money as someone who put all of that into econ.
Maybe you should just accept that you have no idea what you're talking about and not get into an argument where you have no knowledge to back up your statements. Especially here on TL where just believing you're right isn't enough.
The difference between a 1 rax gasless and reaper expand is negligible. The reaper expand player is down 1 SCV and a bit of mineral income in exchange for complete map control where he can just take an uncontested 3rd. In fact, the reaper would still outrange marines in a bunker lol.
On June 10 2012 08:49 MaK UK wrote: I dont understand why everyone is hating on the warhound??
It's a siege line breaker so 1A suits its role. Its fast which lets it close siege tank range quickly, with the addition of its main gun being really powerful and shoots fast. It seems like the new go to unit for packing a punch through a turtle player.
Also the design isn't that bad, don't see why people hate it, i don't think the old BW Goliath model would suit what its role is, unless they beefed it up and stuck the same cannon on it!
I won't even say anything about the model, because I'm fucking certain that horrid thing won't even make it to the beta.
But design-wise, nobody wants a 1A unit. That shouldn't suit anything's role, and it ruins the positional feel of mech from BW that everyone's been after. Also, having an anti-mechanical specialist in a game where one race is entirely bio just feels bad.
People just like complaining. The Haywire attack could be manually targeted for increased efficiency just like charge can be manually activated at specific times for Protoss players. There's also nothing keeping players from micro'ing Warhounds to abuse their speed and range or by getting better concaves, superior positioning and target-firing mechanical units. Most viewers just only see the obvious micro that gives clear visual feedback like ... feedback ^^
It's also not like Terran needs more micro heavy units, almost all of their current units are already heavily dependant on control.
On June 10 2012 08:27 hifriend wrote: "Terrans don't mech, and we need variety. Let's turn mech into bio."
Yeah I don't think anyone thinks that bio will be viable in HoTS past the early game.
Won't bio become MORE viable if a warhound in its current state makes it in? : warhound > owns tanks > nobody bothers going tanks anymore > either warhound / bio fest
On June 10 2012 08:27 hifriend wrote: "Terrans don't mech, and we need variety. Let's turn mech into bio."
Yeah I don't think anyone thinks that bio will be viable in HoTS past the early game.
Won't bio become MORE viable if a warhound in its current state makes it in? : warhound > owns tanks > nobody bothers going tanks anymore > either warhound / bio fest
On June 09 2012 05:00 Kaw wrote: 22 yard range on the Tempest. I guess that is one way to get people interested in what would otherwise be a boring Carrier.
On June 09 2012 05:00 Kaw wrote: 22 yard range on the Tempest. I guess that is one way to get people interested in what would otherwise be a boring Carrier.
Terran gets +30 life on hellions, a robot for TvT and a useless mine, while other races get spell casters,new intresting features and micro intensive units. I guess it all even out with the reaper healing upgrade.
Gonna switch from Terran to Protoss probably. Easier transition than going to master race zerg. If that dosen't work out, im just gonna quit playing and watch streams only.
On June 09 2012 05:00 Kaw wrote: 22 yard range on the Tempest. I guess that is one way to get people interested in what would otherwise be a boring Carrier.
On June 09 2012 05:00 Kaw wrote: 22 yard range on the Tempest. I guess that is one way to get people interested in what would otherwise be a boring Carrier.
I think this makes it cooler than the carrier
But isn't it basically just a protoss Guardian?
Guardian didn't have anywhere near that amount of range. 22 is just obscene. That's like killing your opponent's third on Antiga from inside your main.
On June 09 2012 05:00 Kaw wrote: 22 yard range on the Tempest. I guess that is one way to get people interested in what would otherwise be a boring Carrier.
I think this makes it cooler than the carrier
But isn't it basically just a protoss Guardian?
Pretty much. The entire design of the Carrier was unique from any other airship with little interceptors flying around it. Now if it turns out they've included twitch control to the Tempest like the vast majority of BW units, then I'll shut up about it not being a carrier. But if it's another unit that has a sluggish turn around time, then it'll be another meh long range unit.
I figure that 2 games is no way near enough to analyse balance..
(If there was some kind of Beta test that might fix the issue )
So the question I'm asking myself is will these units be useful or will any of them get sidelined and unused?
As far as I can 'imperfectly' analyse it the widowmaker doesn't quite seem as good as Day nine seems to imply in the vid.
Also the Hellion battle form seems a little weak.. no bonus to light.. very short range
The Warhound is an unknown quantity.. I have no clue if the haywire missiles shoot mechanical air units or what they do against immortals.. Time will tell
All of this would seem to have a fairly tragic effect on existing units (especially the siege tank which has become a static victim) I expect some work to be done to ensure nothing gets left behind by 'Awesome inflation'
At the end of the day Ill buy this no matter what crap they produce so Blizzard should probably not listen to me but rather to people whose money they aren't guaranteed to have
On June 10 2012 07:47 teamhozac wrote: Ummm I think its safe to say Terran is getting shit on as usual... We get one new unit and one unit that can now transform (probably will require a 200/200 upgrade), whoopie fun fun
and another new unit and a reaper remake and and battle hellions dont require an upgrade at all.
I can't be the only person who realizes that the Reaper remake will be entirely useless against the new Queen (hell, even 3 of them in the battle report didn't do anything) and worthless against Protoss for essentially the same reason they're worthless now: 1 Stalker counters any number of them.
No you're not the Reaper is made even worse than he currently is in every MU other then TvT where he'll be a pain in the ass. 7 Range is more than Marines in a Bunker which means Gasless FE builds would be dead since any build without techlab rax staight up dies :O
Yeah man those gauss pistols really tear down bunkers, it's not like repair can counter their low DPS vs armored and the marines will zone out the reapers from hitting the SCVs with good positioning.
Lol what? The reapers will outrange marines in a bunker, thats the point. Even if you repair the reapers can just move around the bunker, and how is a range 5 marine supposed to "zone out" a range 7 reaper that also has a speed advantage?
Do I have to spell this out for you? You place a bunker or two next to your mineral line. If the reapers shoot it, you repair it. If they move forward to hit the SCV on the other side, your range *6* marines with the +1 bunker increase fuck them up. You might still lose a couple harvesters but that's the price you pay for doing a greedy gasless build against an opponent who went for better tech.
Reaper expand into more Reapers has the expo up ~10 seconds later ...
But with less harvesters and bank. You can't just spend 75 minerals on a refinery and lose mineral mining time on the 3 SCVs needed to get gas, drop more on a tech lab, and come out with the same money as someone who put all of that into econ.
Maybe you should just accept that you have no idea what you're talking about and not get into an argument where you have no knowledge to back up your statements. Especially here on TL where just believing you're right isn't enough.
The difference between a 1 rax gasless and reaper expand is negligible. The reaper expand player is down 1 SCV and a bit of mineral income in exchange for complete map control where he can just take an uncontested 3rd. In fact, the reaper would still outrange marines in a bunker lol.
Alright I'll defer to your experience as TvT is not my forte, but if that's the case and it truly is a negligible difference then I'm not sure what the problem was in the first place with gasless FE becoming a dead strat. The game isn't really losing much strategic diversity if both openers resulted in a similar state, no?
On June 10 2012 08:49 MaK UK wrote: I dont understand why everyone is hating on the warhound??
It's a siege line breaker so 1A suits its role. Its fast which lets it close siege tank range quickly, with the addition of its main gun being really powerful and shoots fast. It seems like the new go to unit for packing a punch through a turtle player.
Also the design isn't that bad, don't see why people hate it, i don't think the old BW Goliath model would suit what its role is, unless they beefed it up and stuck the same cannon on it!
I won't even say anything about the model, because I'm fucking certain that horrid thing won't even make it to the beta.
But design-wise, nobody wants a 1A unit. That shouldn't suit anything's role, and it ruins the positional feel of mech from BW that everyone's been after. Also, having an anti-mechanical specialist in a game where one race is entirely bio just feels bad.
People just like complaining. The Haywire attack could be manually targeted for increased efficiency just like charge can be manually activated at specific times for Protoss players. There's also nothing keeping players from micro'ing Warhounds to abuse their speed and range or by getting better concaves, superior positioning and target-firing mechanical units. Most viewers just only see the obvious micro that gives clear visual feedback like ... feedback ^^
It's also not like Terran needs more micro heavy units, almost all of their current units are already heavily dependant on control.
You make some good points, but the apparent complete lack of utility against zerg still stands. Sure there are units which aren't used in every match-up, but the expansion is Blizzards chance to fix that. Even if they don't become a staple, I think just about every unit should have some niche role no matter what races are involved.
Or maybe it's just that hideous model that makes me want to hate on Warhounds. I can't say for sure.
and another new unit and a reaper remake and and battle hellions dont require an upgrade at all.
I can't be the only person who realizes that the Reaper remake will be entirely useless against the new Queen (hell, even 3 of them in the battle report didn't do anything) and worthless against Protoss for essentially the same reason they're worthless now: 1 Stalker counters any number of them.
No you're not the Reaper is made even worse than he currently is in every MU other then TvT where he'll be a pain in the ass. 7 Range is more than Marines in a Bunker which means Gasless FE builds would be dead since any build without techlab rax staight up dies :O
Yeah man those gauss pistols really tear down bunkers, it's not like repair can counter their low DPS vs armored and the marines will zone out the reapers from hitting the SCVs with good positioning.
Lol what? The reapers will outrange marines in a bunker, thats the point. Even if you repair the reapers can just move around the bunker, and how is a range 5 marine supposed to "zone out" a range 7 reaper that also has a speed advantage?
Do I have to spell this out for you? You place a bunker or two next to your mineral line. If the reapers shoot it, you repair it. If they move forward to hit the SCV on the other side, your range *6* marines with the +1 bunker increase fuck them up. You might still lose a couple harvesters but that's the price you pay for doing a greedy gasless build against an opponent who went for better tech.
Reaper expand into more Reapers has the expo up ~10 seconds later ...
But with less harvesters and bank. You can't just spend 75 minerals on a refinery and lose mineral mining time on the 3 SCVs needed to get gas, drop more on a tech lab, and come out with the same money as someone who put all of that into econ.
Maybe you should just accept that you have no idea what you're talking about and not get into an argument where you have no knowledge to back up your statements. Especially here on TL where just believing you're right isn't enough.
The difference between a 1 rax gasless and reaper expand is negligible. The reaper expand player is down 1 SCV and a bit of mineral income in exchange for complete map control where he can just take an uncontested 3rd. In fact, the reaper would still outrange marines in a bunker lol.
Alright I'll defer to your experience as TvT is not my forte, but if that's the case and it truly is a negligible difference then I'm not sure what the problem was in the first place with gasless FE becoming a dead strat. The game isn't really losing much strategic diversity if both openers resulted in a similar state, no?
On June 10 2012 08:49 MaK UK wrote: I dont understand why everyone is hating on the warhound??
It's a siege line breaker so 1A suits its role. Its fast which lets it close siege tank range quickly, with the addition of its main gun being really powerful and shoots fast. It seems like the new go to unit for packing a punch through a turtle player.
Also the design isn't that bad, don't see why people hate it, i don't think the old BW Goliath model would suit what its role is, unless they beefed it up and stuck the same cannon on it!
I won't even say anything about the model, because I'm fucking certain that horrid thing won't even make it to the beta.
But design-wise, nobody wants a 1A unit. That shouldn't suit anything's role, and it ruins the positional feel of mech from BW that everyone's been after. Also, having an anti-mechanical specialist in a game where one race is entirely bio just feels bad.
People just like complaining. The Haywire attack could be manually targeted for increased efficiency just like charge can be manually activated at specific times for Protoss players. There's also nothing keeping players from micro'ing Warhounds to abuse their speed and range or by getting better concaves, superior positioning and target-firing mechanical units. Most viewers just only see the obvious micro that gives clear visual feedback like ... feedback ^^
It's also not like Terran needs more micro heavy units, almost all of their current units are already heavily dependant on control.
You make some good points, but the apparent complete lack of utility against zerg still stands. Sure there are units which aren't used in every match-up, but the expansion is Blizzards chance to fix that. Even if they don't become a staple, I think just about every unit should have some niche role no matter what races are involved.
Or maybe it's just that hideous model that makes me want to hate on Warhounds. I can't say for sure.
Dammit all what the war hound should've been is this.
On June 10 2012 08:02 Shiori wrote: [quote] I can't be the only person who realizes that the Reaper remake will be entirely useless against the new Queen (hell, even 3 of them in the battle report didn't do anything) and worthless against Protoss for essentially the same reason they're worthless now: 1 Stalker counters any number of them.
No you're not the Reaper is made even worse than he currently is in every MU other then TvT where he'll be a pain in the ass. 7 Range is more than Marines in a Bunker which means Gasless FE builds would be dead since any build without techlab rax staight up dies :O
Yeah man those gauss pistols really tear down bunkers, it's not like repair can counter their low DPS vs armored and the marines will zone out the reapers from hitting the SCVs with good positioning.
Lol what? The reapers will outrange marines in a bunker, thats the point. Even if you repair the reapers can just move around the bunker, and how is a range 5 marine supposed to "zone out" a range 7 reaper that also has a speed advantage?
Do I have to spell this out for you? You place a bunker or two next to your mineral line. If the reapers shoot it, you repair it. If they move forward to hit the SCV on the other side, your range *6* marines with the +1 bunker increase fuck them up. You might still lose a couple harvesters but that's the price you pay for doing a greedy gasless build against an opponent who went for better tech.
Reaper expand into more Reapers has the expo up ~10 seconds later ...
But with less harvesters and bank. You can't just spend 75 minerals on a refinery and lose mineral mining time on the 3 SCVs needed to get gas, drop more on a tech lab, and come out with the same money as someone who put all of that into econ.
Maybe you should just accept that you have no idea what you're talking about and not get into an argument where you have no knowledge to back up your statements. Especially here on TL where just believing you're right isn't enough.
The difference between a 1 rax gasless and reaper expand is negligible. The reaper expand player is down 1 SCV and a bit of mineral income in exchange for complete map control where he can just take an uncontested 3rd. In fact, the reaper would still outrange marines in a bunker lol.
Alright I'll defer to your experience as TvT is not my forte, but if that's the case and it truly is a negligible difference then I'm not sure what the problem was in the first place with gasless FE becoming a dead strat. The game isn't really losing much strategic diversity if both openers resulted in a similar state, no?
On June 10 2012 09:13 Saechiis wrote:
On June 10 2012 08:59 SmileZerg wrote:
On June 10 2012 08:49 MaK UK wrote: I dont understand why everyone is hating on the warhound??
It's a siege line breaker so 1A suits its role. Its fast which lets it close siege tank range quickly, with the addition of its main gun being really powerful and shoots fast. It seems like the new go to unit for packing a punch through a turtle player.
Also the design isn't that bad, don't see why people hate it, i don't think the old BW Goliath model would suit what its role is, unless they beefed it up and stuck the same cannon on it!
I won't even say anything about the model, because I'm fucking certain that horrid thing won't even make it to the beta.
But design-wise, nobody wants a 1A unit. That shouldn't suit anything's role, and it ruins the positional feel of mech from BW that everyone's been after. Also, having an anti-mechanical specialist in a game where one race is entirely bio just feels bad.
People just like complaining. The Haywire attack could be manually targeted for increased efficiency just like charge can be manually activated at specific times for Protoss players. There's also nothing keeping players from micro'ing Warhounds to abuse their speed and range or by getting better concaves, superior positioning and target-firing mechanical units. Most viewers just only see the obvious micro that gives clear visual feedback like ... feedback ^^
It's also not like Terran needs more micro heavy units, almost all of their current units are already heavily dependant on control.
You make some good points, but the apparent complete lack of utility against zerg still stands. Sure there are units which aren't used in every match-up, but the expansion is Blizzards chance to fix that. Even if they don't become a staple, I think just about every unit should have some niche role no matter what races are involved.
Or maybe it's just that hideous model that makes me want to hate on Warhounds. I can't say for sure.
Dammit all what the war hound should've been is this.
If they took off the dog head and replaced it with a more vehicular looking cockpit, that might not be a bad idea. We already have Thors and Battle Hellions as bipedal walker mechs.
Can't say I'm liking the looks of the Tempest and Widowmaker. One again, huge emphasis being placed on strong offensive capability that requires little offensive micro, but is weak against strong defensive micro.
It should be the other way around, strong units that need to be microed well (like the Viper appears to be) to be effective.
EPT
)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Nf2x7.jpg)
