EPTHotS MLG Info Updates - Page 103
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Esk23
United States447 Posts
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:41 Solo Terran wrote: What are you guys smoking? The Thor is terrible. It's useless versus protoss because of its energy, useless as a mech AA (which is what it was designed for) and terrible against units like lings and banelings. It's only good versus ultralisks, thats basically it. I doubt you guys saying the Thor is good actually play Terran. Look up Mech TvP in the search option or better yet on youtube. The ones worth watching (where Terran wins) will have a large majority of Thors. Thors don't care about Feedback with SCV mass repair and Ghost EMP. Hellions support it strongly vs Light units, and Vikings are your anti-air unit with Thor as good support due to their splash. It's obvious you're not a Mecher, but that's okay. Not many people understand how Mech actually works. That's why we're getting a 1-A Warhound. | ||
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Solo Terran
367 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:44 Fragile51 wrote: If you'd actually paid any attention you'd know that the Thor in this build of HoTS doesn't have any energy. Seriously? I did not notice that. And I don't hate the Thor. I like it as a zoning AA unit but it is just too vulnerable to magic boxing. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
Well wouldn't be a huge loss anyway other than the new Ultras that would be stunnable again. | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:49 HeroMystic wrote: Look up Mech TvP in the search option or better yet on youtube. The ones worth watching (where Terran wins) will have a large majority of Thors. Thors don't care about Feedback with SCV mass repair and Ghost EMP. Hellions support it strongly vs Light units, and Vikings are your anti-air unit with Thor as good support due to their splash. It's obvious you're not a Mecher, but that's okay. Not many people understand how Mech actually works. That's why we're getting a 1-A Warhound. Thats not mech thats a 2 base thor push. It gets destroyed by fast storm because as much they "dont care" about feedback when its combod with storm they do care. Going a mech timing attack and actually using mech as your army comp are 2 very different things. There are TONS of great mech timing attacks that can hit before protoss gets hit tech up but I have yet to see a mech build that transitions well to the late game. | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:49 HeroMystic wrote: Look up Mech TvP in the search option or better yet on youtube. The ones worth watching (where Terran wins) will have a large majority of Thors. Thors don't care about Feedback with SCV mass repair and Ghost EMP. Hellions support it strongly vs Light units, and Vikings are your anti-air unit with Thor as good support due to their splash. It's obvious you're not a Mecher, but that's okay. Not many people understand how Mech actually works. That's why we're getting a 1-A Warhound. Can someone explain to me why the Warhound used to hit and no longer hits air? | ||
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stipe145
764 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:42 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Hm yes I wonder if they considered tweaking the stats of units around, since maps are much larger now. I would also like mech not to be a deathball, even if it is immobile. I think mech should be spread around, you know, defensively. Blink stalkers already can force some tanks at home (but you can also siege aggressively to force him to defend), but then your main army isn't so strong, so sieging aggressively seems the best way to mech atm. In TvZ as well, yeah sometimes I put 1-2 tanks at later expansions behind a PF and such, but it would be cool to force thors around too. I know if they go mass mass muta you can put 1 thor and a few turrets at each base, but they don't often go mass mass muta. I guess the mines will help with that "spread out" feeling. But if the mines are too effective, they may actually lead the zerg/protoss army to play an even more deathball style... the mines may take food away from a terran deathball, but it also encourages deathball play by the z/p unless they have enough reason to go harass. I hope they get the balance right. @Solo Terran Actually, the thor is very useful and flexible. I like it a lot. I'm really really glad they aren't removing it. Someone who has an idea about what mech should be, back at BW mech would be spread all over the map pushing different expands and harrasing with Vultures. It was so fun to watch. We want that, not deathballs. | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:53 zmansman17 wrote: Can someone explain to me why the Warhound used to hit and no longer hits air? I guess they figured with the Thor staying in game and keeping its AA that having warhound do it as well would have been redundant. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10345 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:44 zmansman17 wrote: It's not like any good Terran wants a deathball. I would hazard a guess that we want an army that rewards skillful use. However, if a defensible position and the "leap frogging" of an army can be neutered by vipers and Binding Cloud, as well as Fungal, what kind of army is Terran left with? Well ghosts should work vs vipers (idk how long vipers range is though) and if they're armored, vikings may do well too. I hope the vipers aren't too big for EMP to be ineffecitve... if so, i hope snipe works well. Also you should always have tanks for infestors anyway, so if they blind cloud with bio you should just run back I guess. On June 10 2012 04:49 HeroMystic wrote: Look up Mech TvP in the search option or better yet on youtube. The ones worth watching (where Terran wins) will have a large majority of Thors. Thors don't care about Feedback with SCV mass repair and Ghost EMP. Hellions support it strongly vs Light units, and Vikings are your anti-air unit with Thor as good support due to their splash. It's obvious you're not a Mecher, but that's okay. Not many people understand how Mech actually works. That's why we're getting a 1-A Warhound. Well said! Honestly can't they just buff tank damage to 60 vs armored ( to make mech more solid vs zerg -- it will rape roaches harder yes, but it would make more mech openings more flexible, just as bio is currently ) or at least fix the damage around so that tanks work better in TvP without being too much worse in TvZ? I think they can lower the splash and raise the damage or something like that. There must be a way to make tanks more effective vs Ultralisks as well while also making tanks slightly better in TvP. Really tanks just need a little boost in TvP and it would be so much better. There's so many ways to adjust the splash. For example, 45 damage vs light 65 damage vs armored. Fires slightly slower. However, the splash goes from 100% in 0.5 range, to 50% to 1 range, to 40% in 1.5 range, to 30% in 2 range, or something like that. Doesn't have to be 100% 75% 50% 25%. That way it wouldn't rape lings too hard, but it would hit hard against ultralisks and protoss units (counter colossi more too). They can adjust splash, AOE, damage, firing rate, even range, now that maps are so much bigger. | ||
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:41 Solo Terran wrote: What are you guys smoking? The Thor is terrible. It's useless versus protoss because of its energy, useless as a mech AA (which is what it was designed for) and terrible against units like lings and banelings. It's only good versus ultralisks, thats basically it. I doubt you guys saying the Thor is good actually play Terran. I play Terran and have a sort of hate/love thing with Thors. I do think they fail in a lot of regards to what they should be able to do, but at the same time no thor would make mech TvZ almost impossible. | ||
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:52 Adreme wrote: Thats not mech thats a 2 base thor push. It gets destroyed by fast storm because as much they "dont care" about feedback when its combod with storm they do care. Going a mech timing attack and actually using mech as your army comp are 2 very different things. There are TONS of great mech timing attacks that can hit before protoss gets hit tech up but I have yet to see a mech build that transitions well to the late game. It's not a 2-base Thor push. Mech build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323003 Mech vid(Lastshadow playing): www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezAvY2bB7ks3#t=6m | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:55 Adreme wrote: I guess they figured with the Thor staying in game and keeping its AA that having warhound do it as well would have been redundant. Yeah I guess that's it. | ||
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Vestige
United States303 Posts
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Solo Terran
367 Posts
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phiinix
United States1169 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
Poll: Do you like the Terran changes? Yes (21) No (12) Warhound sucks (9) Not sure (4) 46 total votes Your vote: Do you like the Terran changes? Just wondering. I'm seriously considering a race switch if these new units damage the playstyle the way it looks like they will. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:49 HeroMystic wrote: Look up Mech TvP in the search option or better yet on youtube. The ones worth watching (where Terran wins) will have a large majority of Thors. Thors don't care about Feedback with SCV mass repair and Ghost EMP. Hellions support it strongly vs Light units, and Vikings are your anti-air unit with Thor as good support due to their splash. It's obvious you're not a Mecher, but that's okay. Not many people understand how Mech actually works. That's why we're getting a 1-A Warhound. I've been "meching" since beta and have never ever gone mass Thor. Always mass Tank hellion with some thors added later on. The Warhound is a smaller and more mobile Thor (for TvP),probably just as 1a ish and boring. | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On June 10 2012 05:03 HeroMystic wrote: It's not a 2-base Thor push. Mech build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323003 Mech vid(Lastshadow playing): www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezAvY2bB7ks3#t=6m I dont know who lastshadow was playing but that is not how most people play against mech. Getting caught without a robo, going 2 forge are all things I wouldnt expect when playing mech. The reason its not popular is that it relies on having your opponent prep for playing against bio. The moment you see mech you go thru a checklist, get charge and of course a robo to spot if its tank heavy or thor heavy, add an immortal or 2 just to be safe if its thor heavy add in a templar archives for feedback+charge to deny repair. If it were very thor heavy late game I could imagine adding in some void rays+pheonix but I have never personally seen it come to that. | ||
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Solo Terran
367 Posts
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
On June 10 2012 05:15 Sapphire.lux wrote: I've been "meching" since beta and have never ever gone mass Thor. Always mass Tank hellion with some thors added later on. The Warhound is a smaller and more mobile Thor (for TvP),probably just as 1a ish and boring. Until protoss gets less 1A stuff, I will welcome Terran 1A stuff | ||
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