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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common.
idk why this isnt being focused on more, its pretty good
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On June 05 2012 12:15 knOxStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:10 LambtrOn wrote:On June 05 2012 12:09 knOxStarcraft wrote:On June 05 2012 12:05 Spades wrote:On June 05 2012 11:58 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Catz seems pretty sure here... he better be careful though, if he is wrong then he is going to have to make some HUGE apologies It won't matter, mob mentality is working against me. I will never been "proven" innocent. If they want to find suspicious actions they will, and all of their fans will take everything they say as fact. They keep saying i camera lock whenever i go over fog of war. And other times they say "here he is looking in fog of war" If i had camera lock how am i looking in fog of war. This makes no sense and contradicts itself. I knew no good would come of them analyzing, because anything except 100% innocence, condemns me. This is why what they're doing is wrong, streaming this analysis is very unprofessional and is the wrong way to go. What's so wrong about it? It's transparent for us viewers, which I like. Everything they are saying is fair. It's wrong because they're trying to prove him guilty not prove him innocent. It's completely biased and streaming it to people will destroy spades' reputation even if he's actually innocent
Are you watching the stream? The evidence is pretty convincing. He has a history. Of course they are going to be suspicious. They have not said he is 100% a hacker. They are going through replays and gathering evidence. The evidence is damning.
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On June 05 2012 12:14 LimitSEA wrote:
This Antiga game is pretty odd, too. "Locked" outside his main for a few seconds while controlling his army near the Xel'Naga towers. Of course you can control and unsiege etc with hotkeys, but why wouldn't you move your camera there with the opponents army right there? :/
16:20 on Antiga convinced me too. Could there possibly be an explanation for this?
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'Murica. Guilty until you're guilty.
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On June 05 2012 12:14 DamageControL wrote:
Is there a way to make the players in a rep anonymous? I think we should check to see if pros can identify "suspicious activity" if they don't know that the pro is spades.
Mix in replays of a pro who plays like spades and make sure that they cannot check hotkeys by making them stream the analysis.
Hell, if this doesn't work, Spades playing streamed games and sharing those replays would make it obvious if those tendencies don't exist, but only after being scrutinized clearly
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On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common.
This is one of the most interesting posts in this thread.
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On June 05 2012 12:15 cArn- wrote:
This is getting really pathetic, you can point out things that look suspicious very easily for any good player.. I'm baffled as to how this thread is stilll going and those so called "analysis" are taken seriously.
So fucking disgusting
woot? i thought you have understanding of this game.
antiga vs theognis was perfect movement always, attacking into an army u dont see with camera locked on reinforcements? wtf?
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On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common.
Oh boy this is going to be good
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Why don't people request his replays on a smurf acct he has.
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People trying to defend him is great but can you seriously deny that none of this at all looks fishy? the point of this is to determine whether or not he actually is, how else would we know? People make this game their lives and for something like this to become common and spread throught the pro/semi pro scene must be stopped. Hopefully it sends a message to others hacking
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Taldarim, 32:20 ish he sees a couple medivacs just slightly in his vision, so I think that move with the vikings and tanks 30 secs later was perfectly legit. Lots of other dodgy points though, but don't take that as the conclusive evidnece
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On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common.
Well Spades you are fucked now. Get the fuck out of SC2 and never come back.
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On June 05 2012 12:15 cArn- wrote:
This is getting really pathetic, you can point out things that look suspicious very easily for any good player.. I'm baffled as to how this thread is stilll going and those so called "analysis" are taken seriously.
So fucking disgusting
There are 4 pros analyzing this right now, and it's so obvious that he is hacking. he is fucking moving and engaging his army while he is watching his base for like 6 straight seconds, and he moves his army while the enemies army is in the fog of war.
There is NO way he isn't hacking. there are so many instances that couldn't just be pure coincidences.
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On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common.
Sh*t just got real.
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Camera key to rally, a-move army via minimap. It's not that complicated.
And camera locking to random places? Are you kidding me? Do we know if he uses location hotkeys?
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On June 05 2012 12:11 legaton wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:07 Starshaped wrote:
OK, The game on Cloud Kingdom shows 100% that he hacks. The tanks that move 0.0001 inches and then re-siege for no reason with no vision. Man, i play terran and i do that like ten times a game in TvT, i call it advancing carefully. I usually do it when i have no vision as i fear siege tanks. Well, i'm going to sleep, i tried to argue but you can fight the stupidity of Catz stream/ I just wanted to say what he's doing is intellectually and morally disgusting. Despreciable.
No, dude, he didn't move a bit and re-siege, he moved THE SMALLEST DISTANCE POSSIBLE and then sieged again, WITHOUT USING HIS VIKING TO SCOUT THE HIGH-GROUND. This is the biggest tell ever, and he can't possibly explain it. In his head, he saw the bio come from the high-ground so he re-sieged, but when you look with his vision you clearly see he cannot see the bio approaching.
Catching hackers is almost always about finding these moments where the hacker thinks what he sees is in his actual vision, but when you look closely it isn't.
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....Guys? What would we do if it turned out there was a liquid' maphacker? I know it sounds horrible but....what would we do?
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On June 05 2012 12:18 Achilles17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common. Sh*t just got real.
That post is a big WTF.
One man's word vs another's lol
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On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common.
I don't know what to make out of this... but... this is amazing post.
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EPT
