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[?] Spades hacking? - Page 69

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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here

10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.

08:47 KST - Summary:
Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.

Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.

(also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here)
shabinka
Profile Joined October 2008
United States469 Posts
June 05 2012 03:22 GMT
#1361
Let's assume what we are trying to prove... and then prove it.
LSB
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5171 Posts
June 05 2012 03:23 GMT
#1362
What someone higher up should do is compile a collection of replays that include spades hacking replays that have not been publicity know, random pro replays with a similar playing style, and replays of known hackers, and then release it and have people make decisions on every replay of the collection,
Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action. Bus Driver can never target themselves I'm sorry
Flipshy
Profile Joined April 2011
United States83 Posts
June 05 2012 03:23 GMT
#1363
On June 05 2012 12:21 phanto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 12:15 Nimic wrote:
This is all very inconclusive

But it's not.
Adding everything up the evidence is quite overwhelming.

This
can people really say all of these are coincidence?
Housemd
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1407 Posts
June 05 2012 03:23 GMT
#1364
On June 05 2012 12:17 courtpanda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.

Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).

If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.

About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.

I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.

Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.

It's pretty common.


idk why this isnt being focused on more, its pretty good


Two things that I learned from this:

Spades is 90% hacking.
And the honorable Korean way is bullshit.
Fantasy is a beast
Moonling
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States987 Posts
June 05 2012 03:23 GMT
#1365
On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.

Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).

If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.

About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.

I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.

Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.

It's pretty common.


Well...thats interesting
1% of koreans control 99% of starcraft winnings. #occupykorea.
yeastiality
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada374 Posts
June 05 2012 03:23 GMT
#1366
On June 05 2012 12:22 shabinka wrote:
Let's assume what we are trying to prove... and then prove it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
lulutheking
Profile Joined April 2012
France106 Posts
June 05 2012 03:23 GMT
#1367
On June 05 2012 12:15 cArn- wrote:
This is getting really pathetic, you can point out things that look suspicious very easily for any good player.. I'm baffled as to how this thread is stilll going and those so called "analysis" are taken seriously.

So fucking disgusting

Completely agree, take any replays of anybody and taken out of context anyone will find something suspicious... This is witch hunting honestly.... We all do things not conventional in our games , if you take them out of context then you'll find lots of not normal things...
Machu PIchu
knOxStarcraft
Profile Joined March 2012
Canada422 Posts
June 05 2012 03:23 GMT
#1368
On June 05 2012 12:17 LambtrOn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 12:15 knOxStarcraft wrote:
On June 05 2012 12:10 LambtrOn wrote:
On June 05 2012 12:09 knOxStarcraft wrote:
On June 05 2012 12:05 Spades wrote:
On June 05 2012 11:58 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Catz seems pretty sure here... he better be careful though, if he is wrong then he is going to have to make some HUGE apologies

It won't matter, mob mentality is working against me. I will never been "proven" innocent. If they want to find suspicious actions they will, and all of their fans will take everything they say as fact. They keep saying i camera lock whenever i go over fog of war. And other times they say "here he is looking in fog of war" If i had camera lock how am i looking in fog of war. This makes no sense and contradicts itself. I knew no good would come of them analyzing, because anything except 100% innocence, condemns me.

This is why what they're doing is wrong, streaming this analysis is very unprofessional and is the wrong way to go.

What's so wrong about it? It's transparent for us viewers, which I like. Everything they are saying is fair.

It's wrong because they're trying to prove him guilty not prove him innocent. It's completely biased and streaming it to people will destroy spades' reputation even if he's actually innocent

Are you watching the stream? The evidence is pretty convincing. He has a history. Of course they are going to be suspicious. They have not said he is 100% a hacker. They are going through replays and gathering evidence. The evidence is damning.

But a trial shouldn't be streamed to the public, regardless of who the person is, because even if the person is innocent this way, they will be treated as if they're guilty by the community
SgtCoDFish
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom1520 Posts
June 05 2012 03:23 GMT
#1369
On June 05 2012 12:19 Psychonian wrote:
....Guys? What would we do if it turned out there was a liquid' maphacker? I know it sounds horrible but....what would we do?


If it was proven, ostracize them immediately and never support them ever again.

No different to anyone else. Silly question
EndofCreation
Profile Joined May 2012
85 Posts
June 05 2012 03:24 GMT
#1370
So can we all simply agree he did it Its extremely evident especially considering his past and his ability to create a close game even though he is far below him in skill.
Xorphene
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom492 Posts
June 05 2012 03:24 GMT
#1371
On June 05 2012 12:21 Martijn wrote:
Just so we're clear on something. The only ones that have any right to judge Spades here is the WesternWolves. It was our showmatch and he's our player. We're his sponsor, we're the admins


Wrong, SC2 is a public e-sport, the community are entitled to have their say and "judgement".

I got a serious headache watching people try to market this whole mess for viewers clearly looking to make Spades look bad.

So for the record, WW hosted the showmatch, Spades is on the WW team, WW is looking into these accusations, WW will consult experts and WW will release a statement after a conclusion has been drawn.


Your credibility is on the line

Oh and as a bonus, WW would love to know who actually posted this disaster in the first place.


Irrelevant.
T: Polt, Fantasy, Flash, Jjakji. P: HerO, Rain, Grubby, SoS. Z: Jaedong, Scarlett, Snute, Life. Casters: ToD, Apollo, MrBitter, Artosis, Day[9].
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
June 05 2012 03:24 GMT
#1372
On June 05 2012 12:23 Moonling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.

Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).

If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.

About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.

I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.

Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.

It's pretty common.


Well...thats interesting


Honestly I find the example more worrying than anything that happened today.
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
June 05 2012 03:24 GMT
#1373
On June 05 2012 12:00 Xorphene wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 11:55 ampson wrote:
On June 05 2012 11:52 Moonling wrote:
On June 05 2012 11:51 PanN wrote:
Yeah I have no idea how he can possibly defend the 32:50 on tal darim....



Pretty obvious imo, but I mean... idk how you can defend that


Lucifron was doing drop play, he saw the army retreat from the 3rd, the top of the main was wide fucking open. Where else was he going to do a drop. Just proves that spades has halfway decent game sense. More concrete evidence will be needed to convince me.


So he moves his ENTIRE army there? Really?

Where is the differentiation between a 2 medivac drop and a doom drop? He saw a flash on the minimap for a split second. He moves his entire army because he *KNOWS* Lucifron is doom dropping him and there is NO CHANCE of a multipronged push.

*sigh* these games vs Ognis aren't looking great either.

also the seige tank crawl is weird.
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
Balgrog
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1221 Posts
June 05 2012 03:24 GMT
#1374
On June 05 2012 12:22 Spades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.

Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).

If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.

About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.

I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.

Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.

It's pretty common.


Lol really, it was Artist, when did this ever happen. If anything people in the house would randomly say something during a game they were watching. I never had 2 monitors open and stream cheat or anything. Why would you say something stupid like that. So stupid.


The fact that you arent defending your self tooth and nail right now to that post says everything. You will never attempt at being a pro in esports again. Just please admit what you have done and gracefully bow out of the scene.
The only way to attack structure is with chaos.
efren
Profile Joined November 2011
United States125 Posts
June 05 2012 03:24 GMT
#1375
On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.

Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).

If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.

About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.

I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.

Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.

It's pretty common.



LOL why doesn't it suprise me that even high profile koreans are cheating at a high profile lan event like MLG
Pwnographics
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand1097 Posts
June 05 2012 03:24 GMT
#1376
Miracle scan wtf...

Archon voice: Evidence overwhelming...
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
June 05 2012 03:24 GMT
#1377
Isn't the American judicial system "beyond reasonable doubt?"

Where is the line for reasonable doubt with a thousand coincidences?
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
ROOTheognis
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States4482 Posts
June 05 2012 03:24 GMT
#1378
Things just got cray. O_O
If you avoid your weakness, it will remain your weakness. www.twitter.com/#!/rootheognis Follow me!
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
June 05 2012 03:24 GMT
#1379
On June 05 2012 12:21 yawnoC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.

Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).

If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.

About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.

I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.

Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.

It's pretty common.
Why do I not feel shocked at all by this?

Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 12:21 Martijn wrote:
Just so we're clear on something. The only ones that have any right to judge Spades here is the WesternWolves. It was our showmatch and he's our player. We're his sponsor, we're the admins

I got a serious headache watching people try to market this whole mess for viewers clearly looking to make Spades look bad.

So for the record, WW hosted the showmatch, Spades is on the WW team, WW is looking into these accusations, WW will consult experts and WW will release a statement after a conclusion has been drawn.

Oh and as a bonus, WW would love to know who actually posted this disaster in the first place.

I really hope TL does post who the "OP" actually is.


WHY aren't we focusing on the koreans?
Liquid | SKT
jmbnm
Profile Joined July 2011
24 Posts
June 05 2012 03:25 GMT
#1380
From the mountain of evidence on CatZ and Illusion's stream, this guy is hacking. With his hacking in BW, and his stream cheating in SC2 confirmed, Spades is a hacker.
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