07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here
10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.
08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.
Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.
(also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here)
On June 05 2012 12:07 Starshaped wrote: OK, The game on Cloud Kingdom shows 100% that he hacks. The tanks that move 0.0001 inches and then re-siege for no reason with no vision.
How the? Wait what the? Wait.. you... but...
Why am I even reading this thread anymore. I hope you're not hacking Spades. Pretty clear there's some serious confirmation bias going on right now and I haven't seen anything conclusive.
I'm very nearly inspired to go find a replay pack of a pro and find a bunch of "suspicious" moments and start another witch hunt. Except I'll do it on an alt so no one knows it's me (except TL mods who clearly don't care about an anonymous asshole who gets to make this accusation without being revealed)
On June 05 2012 12:08 Insane wrote: OK, so I'm inclined to believe Spades hacks, given a large amount of evidence and "coincidences". However, 32:50 on Tal'Darim doesn't prove much I don't think. If you look at the replay, at 32:21 then his scan sees a couple dropships.
It lasts less than a second in time, so it's easy to miss, but I do think those two dropships could've tipped him off.
On June 05 2012 11:58 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Catz seems pretty sure here... he better be careful though, if he is wrong then he is going to have to make some HUGE apologies
It won't matter, mob mentality is working against me. I will never been "proven" innocent. If they want to find suspicious actions they will, and all of their fans will take everything they say as fact. They keep saying i camera lock whenever i go over fog of war. And other times they say "here he is looking in fog of war" If i had camera lock how am i looking in fog of war. This makes no sense and contradicts itself. I knew no good would come of them analyzing, because anything except 100% innocence, condemns me.
This is why what they're doing is wrong, streaming this analysis is very unprofessional and is the wrong way to go.
They wouldn't be doing it if they were not convinced.
You do realize that is the exact problem? They have already decided he is guilty, so everything they analyze is already seen in that light. It's entirely pointless.
This is ridiculous, what a joke of a community. How about comparing this play to his streamed play? I really hope someone does this analysis properly, comparing the replays to FPVOD play, and proves these immature retards wrong.
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
On June 05 2012 11:58 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Catz seems pretty sure here... he better be careful though, if he is wrong then he is going to have to make some HUGE apologies
It won't matter, mob mentality is working against me. I will never been "proven" innocent. If they want to find suspicious actions they will, and all of their fans will take everything they say as fact. They keep saying i camera lock whenever i go over fog of war. And other times they say "here he is looking in fog of war" If i had camera lock how am i looking in fog of war. This makes no sense and contradicts itself. I knew no good would come of them analyzing, because anything except 100% innocence, condemns me.
This is why what they're doing is wrong, streaming this analysis is very unprofessional and is the wrong way to go.
They wouldn't be doing it if they were not convinced.
You do realize that is the exact problem? They have already decided he is guilty, so everything they analyze is already seen in that light. It's entirely pointless.
I actually find this pretty entertaining analysis.
As for what I think, it's beyond obvious to anyone with half a brain if he's hacking or not. Make your own conclusions, but I think it's beyond obvious.
On June 05 2012 12:08 Insane wrote: OK, so I'm inclined to believe Spades hacks, given a large amount of evidence and "coincidences". However, 32:50 on Tal'Darim doesn't prove much I don't think. If you look at the replay, at 32:21 then his scan sees a couple dropships.
It lasts less than a second in time, so it's easy to miss, but I do think those two dropships could've tipped him off.
Yay research, maybe that will calm the storm
Who scans there?
Why would we move the tanks 30 seconds AFTER he sees the medivacs? I'm just curious. If he had expected a drop wouldn't he move quicker?
On June 05 2012 11:58 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Catz seems pretty sure here... he better be careful though, if he is wrong then he is going to have to make some HUGE apologies
It won't matter, mob mentality is working against me. I will never been "proven" innocent. If they want to find suspicious actions they will, and all of their fans will take everything they say as fact. They keep saying i camera lock whenever i go over fog of war. And other times they say "here he is looking in fog of war" If i had camera lock how am i looking in fog of war. This makes no sense and contradicts itself. I knew no good would come of them analyzing, because anything except 100% innocence, condemns me.
This is why what they're doing is wrong, streaming this analysis is very unprofessional and is the wrong way to go.
They wouldn't be doing it if they were not convinced.
You do realize that is the exact problem? They have already decided he is guilty, so everything they analyze is already seen in that light. It's entirely pointless.
No they haven't. That's why they are analyzing. A ton of really suspicious things have come up though and it's getting worse by the minute for spades. This antiga game is even more damning.
On June 05 2012 12:08 Insane wrote: OK, so I'm inclined to believe Spades hacks, given a large amount of evidence and "coincidences". However, 32:50 on Tal'Darim doesn't prove much I don't think. If you look at the replay, at 32:21 then his scan sees a couple dropships.
It lasts less than a second in time, so it's easy to miss, but I do think those two dropships could've tipped him off.
Yay research, maybe that will calm the storm
Who scans there?
IF Spades is not hacking he has the best gaming sense I've ever seen in the history of Starcraft. He should start playing online events. He will never lose, it's that good.
This Antiga game is pretty odd, too. "Locked" outside his main for a few seconds while controlling his army near the Xel'Naga towers. Of course you can control and unsiege etc with hotkeys, but why wouldn't you move your camera there with the opponents army right there? :/
On June 05 2012 11:58 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Catz seems pretty sure here... he better be careful though, if he is wrong then he is going to have to make some HUGE apologies
It won't matter, mob mentality is working against me. I will never been "proven" innocent. If they want to find suspicious actions they will, and all of their fans will take everything they say as fact. They keep saying i camera lock whenever i go over fog of war. And other times they say "here he is looking in fog of war" If i had camera lock how am i looking in fog of war. This makes no sense and contradicts itself. I knew no good would come of them analyzing, because anything except 100% innocence, condemns me.
This is why what they're doing is wrong, streaming this analysis is very unprofessional and is the wrong way to go.
They wouldn't be doing it if they were not convinced.
You do realize that is the exact problem? They have already decided he is guilty, so everything they analyze is already seen in that light. It's entirely pointless.
They weren't until they analized, they are just going through there conclusions on stream.
Is there a way to make the players in a rep anonymous? I think we should check to see if pros can identify "suspicious activity" if they don't know that the pro is spades.
Mix in replays of a pro who plays like spades and make sure that they cannot check hotkeys by making them stream the analysis.
What was just shown on Catz stream seems 100% conclusive to me, how did Spades control his army in a fight moving forward and back without looking at it?
That Antiga Shipyard part is way more fishy. So much random movements all game to cut off Theo's army, then that engagement where Spades isn't looking at anything at all to move into position.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QzDj9l.jpg)
